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tacticalcity
01-18-2008, 6:03 PM
I have some questions as I apply for my FFL.

Can I get a PO Box at UPS and have the firearms shipped to it?

I plan on keeping my day job for a while and would rather not deal with them trying to deliver them to my home address. My luck the idiot would leave it by the door.

Hunter
01-18-2008, 6:42 PM
No, your address on your ffl (that shippers send firearms to) must be your actual location.

A license may only be issued for a permanent premises at which the licensed applicant intends to do business.

But you can have storage facilities that receive your firearms....

Storage facilities are not required to be covered by a separate license. However, the records maintained on licensed premises must reflect all firearms held in the separate storage facility. Firearms may be shipped directly to separate storage facilities as long as they are properly recorded as an acquisition in the licensee's records.

[27 CFR 478.50]

tacticalcity
01-18-2008, 6:50 PM
That actually sounds like a yes to me. The PO Box would be the storage facility right? It is a box at the local UPS Store. UPS and the post office are approved carriers of firearms right? So shouldn't they be allowed to receive them?

I put my actual pysical address in the address box that must be the physical location where I am doing business, and my PO Box address in the other box, the one that says it can be a PO Box.

Or does it have to be some other sort of storage facility? Is that not the purpose of the other box on the application?

On my website I instruct people to ship to the PO Box and I have my suppliers ship to the PO Box? Or is that against the rules?

bwiese
01-18-2008, 6:53 PM
That actually sounds like a yes to me. The PO Box would be the storage facility right? It is a box at the local UPS Store. UPS and the post office are approved carriers of firearms right? So shouldn't they be allowed to receive them?

I put my actual address in the address box that must be the physical location, and my PO Box in the other box., the one that says it can be a PO Box.

Or does it have to be some other sort of storage facility? Is that not the purpose of the other box on the application?

Playing games like that is the quickest way to not get your FFL or get it denied and then raise the bar higher for a subsequent re-app.

You don't do biz outta the box, you have a place to do biz.

Even if you use a PMB (private mail box couched as "Apt" or "Suite", that won't fly. There are databases of those - easy to verify it's a non-real-address.

Furthermore, you gotta be zoned appropriately, etc. Feds ain't gonna give you an FFL until you're squared away locally/statewise.

tacticalcity
01-18-2008, 6:57 PM
First, you are completely miss understanding me.

There are TWO boxes on the application form.

One says it must physical address.

One says it can be a PO Box.

My question is:

Is it legal to have firearms delivered to the address in the PO Box field?

Hunter
01-18-2008, 7:01 PM
That actually sounds like a yes to me. The PO Box would be the storage facility right? It is a box at the local UPS Store. UPS and the post office are approved carriers of firearms right? So shouldn't they be allowed to receive them?

I put my actual address in the address box that must be the physical location, and my PO Box in the other box., the one that says it can be a PO Box.

Or does it have to be some other sort of storage facility? Is that not the purpose of the other box on the application?

Nope, a storage facility is where someone at the facility will receive the firearm and notes the serial number to log in and then stores it. USPS is not storing the firearms. But since you are indeed listing a physical address (which I didn't think so by the first post) along with your PO, then it may work out for you in some cases.

I say some since most firearm shippers will not use USPS due to the costs over UPS or FedEx and "joe blow" cannot for handguns. So how will you handle/prevent folks from not using your street address on your FFL? Which is the normal approach.

tacticalcity
01-18-2008, 7:09 PM
I plan to buy my guns from a distributor (one I already use for all the parts sold on my website that has been in business for 5 years now), so I can control exactly where they are shipped. I do not plan to buy them on an individual basis here and there.

So your answer is that it is not legal to have a firearm shipped to a PO Box or that is just most people won't do it?

I know how to fill out the form. I am just wondering why there is a seperate box for PO Boxes if they will not allow us to have firearms shipped to them?

Also, if there are storage facilities that will accept firearms in the maner in which you are describing, can you direct me to one in the Sacramento Area? Sounds pretty cool. Never heard of such a thing before.

Hunter
01-18-2008, 7:19 PM
I plan to buy my guns from a distributor, so I can control exactly where they are shipped. I do not plan to buy them on an individual basis here and there......


The physical address is your place of business and that is the location guns will be shipped to unless you list a separate "storage facility" with the ATF. The "mailing" address on your license is for documents from the ATF or others, i.e. mail. The "mailing address" is not meant for receiving firearms at. That is why you cannot put down a PO Box for your place of business address. Also, any firearm distributor in the business today will only ship to your physical address that is listed on your license. If mail doesn't get delivered to that address, then you will only get firearms via common carrier from these firms.

tacticalcity
01-18-2008, 7:26 PM
Ok. The question has been answered. Guns get shipped to your physical location, so unless for some reason I want my mail sent somewhere else I have no need to pay extra for a PO box. So you guys saved me $20 a month. Thanks guys. I will make certain everything gets shipped signature required, which I am sure it already will be...just to be safe.

I really appriciate your guys helping me answer this question. I am sure I will have more. Thanks for helping me avoid another monthly bill as well. You guys are the best!

Addax
01-19-2008, 3:01 AM
Not to sound too redundant...

Line 5 (Business Address) on the yellow ATF form 7 (May, 2005) clearly states (Business Address cannot be a PO Box).

ATF considers your business address your store address where firearms you order would be shipped to and received at. FFL dealers/Distributor can only ship Firearms to the address listed as your FFL License address on your FFL, which would be your Business address, and must be a physical location, not a PO Box.

Typically Firearms Distributors will use UPS / Fed Ex type shipping companies to ship firearms. If you are not at your store to receive the firearm, the driver will either try to deliver the shipment again the following business day or will leave you a note to pick up the shipment from their / your local shipping hub.

I know some FFl's use USPS to ship firearms as well, and USPS will have to hold your shipment if they cannot deliver (say your store is closed when delivery attempt is made) I am not sure if there is a timeframe for them to hold it at the local Post Office...

Line 6 (Mailing Address) on the same form is an option for you to use in case you want to have a different mailing address for mail, such as documents, etc. sent to say your home address or a PO Box (which is ok).

I am going through the same process.

I am sure you already did the DOJ COE and received their requirements packet as well.

Good Luck.

Chris

tacticalcity
01-19-2008, 3:28 AM
GOT IT. THANKS GUYS. I APPRICIATE THE HELP. MORE QUESTIONS COMING SOON.

M. D. Van Norman
01-19-2008, 9:51 PM
Assuming California law doesn’t preclude it, why not receive the occasional firearm at your day job? Under federal law, a licensee may take delivery at any location where he can ensure safe receipt. Alternatively, you could simply get into the habit of picking up your shipments from the local FedEx/UPS/USPS distribution centers or trying to schedule the deliveries for when you would be in your shop.

tacticalcity
01-19-2008, 9:53 PM
Pretty sure my main supplier will only ship to the address on the FFL to cover their rear. I will most likely have to get into the habbit of picking them up from the carrier, which wouldn't be too bad. Trying to scheduel shipments with carriers like these is next to impossible.

FortCourageArmory
01-19-2008, 10:24 PM
Assuming California law doesn’t preclude it, why not receive the occasional firearm at your day job? Under federal law, a licensee may take delivery at any location where he can ensure safe receipt. Alternatively, you could simply get into the habit of picking up your shipments from the local FedEx/UPS/USPS distribution centers or trying to schedule the deliveries for when you would be in your shop.

No vendor will ship to anyplace other than the address that shows on the FFL. At least none that I've dealt with so far.

TKM
01-19-2008, 11:31 PM
You seem to have the answers to the question you asked already. But why would you have trusted a PMB? Those places are not exactly secure.

tacticalcity
01-19-2008, 11:46 PM
And the back of a UPS van is? I wanted to know if it was worth investing in. Now I know it is not. Thanks.