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View Full Version : Trunk Guns and your legal recourse in using them in public


FlyingPen
01-18-2008, 12:57 AM
A few days ago in a road rage situation, I was a little bit scared for my life. I was in the middle lane and swerved into the right lane because someone in the left lane changed lanes without signaling and directly at my car at 75mph.

The person who I cut off who was in basically a rape van looking vehicle honked at me and give me the finger. I know it was stupid but with some adrenaline and my own anger I gave him the finger back as well (he could plainly see why I had to avoid getting hit hard) and that started an unfortunate sequence of events where I was followed for about 10 miles in a pretty aggressive manner. I finally lost him when I took an exit in a very unexpected and dangerous way. In hindsight, I should have called the cops but it didn't occur to me yet.

This has got me really thinking about getting a trunk gun (probably locked backseat gun). From reading up on this board and the law, the laws seem to allow a trunk gun as long as it's not an AW or loaded and I've emailed the the DoJ with questions regarding it. There still seems to be some confusion around the legalities of it though.

I was thinking about contacting my local sheriff to see their view on it.

One other question I had was that I know there are laws that say you can't have your unloaded handgun in the glove or utility compartment... but what if it's a gun locked in a box that is in the glove or utility compartment. So kind of like double locking. It seems retarded if that is not allowed but you can have a unlocked gun out in the open.


I was also wondering what are the valid uses of a trunk gun if it came down to it. Here's what I found so far:

It is unlawful to carry a loaded rifle, shotgun, or handgun in any public place or on any public street in an incorporated area or an area where firing a firearm is prohibited.

Exceptions include:

* Persons shooting on target ranges, or while hunting on the premises of a shooting club.

* A person who reasonably believes that he or his property is in immediate danger and the weapon must be carried for "preservation."

* A person "engaged in the act of making or attempting lawful arrest."

* A person carrying a firearm while at home or at his place of business, including temporary residences and campsites.

Carrying a handgun concealed is prohibited without a license. The law states "Firearms carried openly in belt holsters are not concealed within the meaning of this section."

This doesn't specifically state that I can use the weapon if the need arises in a public road but that I can have the gun out and loaded if I feel myself or my property is in danger.

So if Rape Van Dude came running at me with a machete or even started firing at me with his own gun, am I lawfully allowed to fire back? I think self defense kicks in here and I would assume I'm allowed to but I'm not sure on this.

I hope that I never have to use a gun outside of a range but if the need for some comes up, I'd like to know or have an idea of the legal ramifications.

smogcity
01-18-2008, 6:59 AM
:TFH::TFH::TFH::TFH::TFH::TFH:

frigginchi
01-18-2008, 7:07 AM
What if I drive for a living?

* A person carrying a firearm while at home or at his place of business, including temporary residences and campsites.

p7m8jg
01-18-2008, 7:50 AM
Just being afraid someone else might hurt you (called "bare fear" in the legal books), is never enough to justify using deadly force against someone.

Use a cellphone.
Call 911.
Drive away safely and don't make further eye contact until they lose interest like the barking dog that they are.

If you're always carrying a firearm in your trunk, and ammunition for it , you'd probably be seen as the aggressor in any given situation. At least, that's how the press would probably report it, or an attorney would describe you before a jury of your peers.

Its not worth it. IMHO

MudCamper
01-18-2008, 9:57 AM
I was thinking about contacting my local sheriff to see their view on it.

He will tell you that it is illegal.

A person who reasonably believes that he or his property is in immediate danger and the weapon must be carried for "preservation.

This looks like a misquote from 12031. It is missing some very important detail:

(j) (1) Nothing in this section is intended to preclude the carrying of any loaded firearm, under circumstances where it would otherwise be lawful, by a person who reasonably believes that the person or property of himself or herself or of another is in immediate, grave danger and that the carrying of the weapon is necessary for the preservation of that person or property. As used in this subdivision, "immediate" means the brief interval before and after the local law enforcement agency, when reasonably possible, has been notified of the danger and before the arrival of its assistance.

As you can see you must have notified the police for this exemption to apply.

Read my carry and transport flyer, linked in my sig. It's legal to carry a rifle or shotgun in your car. Although some disagree, it is legal to carry a handgun in your car also (locked in case or trunk). But it is not legal to have them loaded.

Ironchef
01-18-2008, 10:12 AM
I doubt highly that even if it were lawful to get out of your car, open your trunk, load a weapon and then "defend against imminent bodily harm", you'd never fair well. If there's a condition where someone is approaching you on foot to harm you...it's already too late...drive off or hit him trying to escape his cornering you...much better than a gun..and more legal probably.

Rob P.
01-18-2008, 11:02 AM
First I would look elsewhere for a solution to your "problem". Someone important in our history once said: "Walk softly and carry a big stick." You'll notice that they said "walk softly" first because it is the most important part of the sentence.

My point being that you should look at your ATTITUDE first before you start thinking about having the means to kill or maim at your fingertips. If you can't let life's little problems slide off your shoulders, then you have NO BUSINESS carrying a firearm until you learn to do so.

I know that sounds harsh. Tough. Learn to deal with it.

FlyingPen
01-18-2008, 11:47 AM
So is there ever a case where it makes sense to have a trunk gun?

hoffmang
01-18-2008, 11:50 AM
When much younger, I was on the wrong end of a road rage incident where I hadn't done anything wrong. I had just removed a scythe from my trunk about a day before and I to this day wish I would have had something.

Here is how to think about it:
1. Let him hit you - hold your lane and be careful. If you can avoid the other car without serious correction, do it, but you have to stay in control and don't want to hit other cars.

2. Head for a well lighted (at night) populated place or a police/HP station. Call 911 and tell the CHP what's going on with a description of both cars. Traffic laws are optional at this point and use that to your advantage. The goal is to meet a LEO somewhere close.

3. Sometimes you end up out of the car. This is where having a trunk gun can come in handy. If someone has tried to hit your car - especially if you have contact damage - you have a reasonable fear for your life. However, if you can stay in the car, you can stay in control of your best actual weapon until you can get assistance.

-Gene

Jicko
01-18-2008, 11:55 AM
I know it was stupid but with some adrenaline and my own anger I gave him the finger back as well (he could plainly see why I had to avoid getting hit hard) and that started an unfortunate sequence of events ....

If you cannot control your own adrenaline rush, you are better off WITHOUT a gun.

Stay in your car as long as possible even if you car is disabled. It would take someone quite sometime to be able to get to you if you lock yourself in. Also, start long honking to get attention (or SOS pattern). And of course..... call for help.....

FlyingPen
01-18-2008, 12:10 PM
I don't know, I think flipping off someone who flipped me off isn't that terrible at least IMO. I'm not perfect but I"m not very hot tempered person at all.

I guess the bigger question is then, why do people carry trunk guns if it seems like there's never a valid legal reason to ever use them.

MudCamper
01-18-2008, 12:19 PM
There are several threads open right now all about either open carry and/or transporting firearms. Road rage issues aside, go here for the firearms legal stuff: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=82922

Rob P.
01-18-2008, 12:21 PM
"Trunk guns" are actually TRUCK guns. They are carried by people who need them. For instance, ranchers carry them because they may occasionally run across injured animals or predators.

Trunk guns are for gangbangers.

FlyingPen
01-18-2008, 12:23 PM
So basically, as far as trunk guns go, there is never a legal reason to have one/use then? It seems from reading threads, a lot of calgunners still do?

hoffmang
01-18-2008, 12:24 PM
Trunk guns are for gangbangers.

Glad to know I'm a gangbanger. :rolleyes:

There are quite a few uses of trunk guns. I didn't have mine the other day when a deer had been hit in the road. More importantly, how are you going to feel if you are at work or the mall and there is a problem that only a gun can help?

The point of having a trunk gun is that life is unpredictable and CCWs aren't always widely available. On that note, don't assume you'll be turned down for a CCW in your county.

-Gene

Rob P.
01-18-2008, 12:25 PM
Glad to know I'm a gangbanger. :rolleyes:

There are quite a few uses of trunk guns. I didn't have mine the other day when a deer had been hit in the road. More importantly, how are you going to feel if you are at work or the mall and there is a problem that only a gun can help?

The point of having a trunk gun is that life is unpredictable and CCWs aren't always widely available. On that note, don't assume you'll be turned down for a CCW in your county.

-Gene

Sorry, should have used the stupid smiley buttons. I meant what I said, tongue in cheek.

My apologies.

FlyingPen
01-18-2008, 12:27 PM
Glad to know I'm a gangbanger. :rolleyes:

There are quite a few uses of trunk guns. I didn't have mine the other day when a deer had been hit in the road. More importantly, how are you going to feel if you are at work or the mall and there is a problem that only a gun can help?

The point of having a trunk gun is that life is unpredictable and CCWs aren't always widely available. On that note, don't assume you'll be turned down for a CCW in your county.

-Gene

I guess there are too many what-ifs to address but is it legal to shoot a dying a deer on a public road? I thought it was illegal to discharge a firearm for any reason in a public incorporated area unless in a designated area.

pnkssbtz
01-18-2008, 12:29 PM
When much younger, I was on the wrong end of a road rage incident where I hadn't done anything wrong. I had just removed a scythe from my trunk about a day before and I to this day wish I would have had something.

Here is how to think about it:
1. Let him hit you - hold your lane and be careful. If you can avoid the other car without serious correction, do it, but you have to stay in control and don't want to hit other cars.

2. Head for a well lighted (at night) populated place or a police/HP station. Call 911 and tell the CHP what's going on with a description of both cars. Traffic laws are optional at this point and use that to your advantage. The goal is to meet a LEO somewhere close.

3. Sometimes you end up out of the car. This is where having a trunk gun can come in handy. If someone has tried to hit your car - especially if you have contact damage - you have a reasonable fear for your life. However, if you can stay in the car, you can stay in control of your best actual weapon until you can get assistance.

-Gene
+1. Why are you so reasonable Gene? Why!

pnkssbtz
01-18-2008, 12:30 PM
So basically, as far as trunk guns go, there is never a legal reason to have one/use then? It seems from reading threads, a lot of calgunners still do?

No, it is legal.


Only HANDGUNS and AW's have restrictions on being locked and transportation to and from designated areas.

Non AW long arms do not need to be locked up. They just need to be unloaded.

MudCamper
01-18-2008, 12:48 PM
So basically, as far as trunk guns go, there is never a legal reason to have one/use then? It seems from reading threads, a lot of calgunners still do?

Legal. See: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=82922

FlyingPen
01-18-2008, 12:54 PM
Sorry, I didn't mean to say it's not legal to have one, I guess what I'm saying is is there a legal way that you'll ever use one in a public incorporated area.

hoffmang
01-18-2008, 1:03 PM
It is legal in a real self defense situation. It's probably technically not legal to discharge to put an animal out of its misery, but that would be one strange officer/animal control person who had a problem with you being humane.

-Gene

FlyingPen
01-18-2008, 1:07 PM
Ok, that was what I thought and seems reasonable but someone pointed that that it's a misinterpretation to think that using a legal trunk gun is in the penal code as an exception earlier in the thread.

MudCamper
01-18-2008, 1:08 PM
Sorry, I didn't mean to say it's not legal to have one, I guess what I'm saying is is there a legal way that you'll ever use one in a public incorporated area.

Yes it could be legal.

12031. (j) (1) Nothing in this section is intended to preclude the carrying of any loaded firearm, under circumstances where it would otherwise be lawful, by a person who reasonably believes that the person or property of himself or herself or of another is in immediate, grave danger and that the carrying of the weapon is necessary for the preservation of that person or property. As used in this subdivision, "immediate" means the brief interval before and after the local law enforcement agency, when reasonably possible, has been notified of the danger and before the arrival of its assistance.

Read: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=82922

MudCamper
01-18-2008, 1:10 PM
Ok, that was what I thought and seems reasonable but someone pointed that that it's a misinterpretation to think that using a legal trunk gun is in the penal code as an exception earlier in the thread.

But you can't keep it loaded. You could load it under a 12031. (j) (1) situation.

FlyingPen
01-18-2008, 1:54 PM
Ok thanks so essentially:

1. It is legal to have an unloaded firearm in the car following the proper rules for handguns and rifles and AW.

2. It is legal to use that said gun to defend yourself or your property or another person if it is reasonable to believe that any of the above are in "grave" danger.


One question specifically about handguns, there was some talk in threads about "lawful" purpose of going to a range or moving the firearm from your house to a smith or something. Is that an actual law, I haven't seen it yet in the code specifically for a handgun.

troyus
01-18-2008, 1:57 PM
The one thing I don't like about a 'truck gun' is the idea of my truck getting stolen, along with the gun... And then finding out later it was used to commit a crime or kill an innocent. Does anyone else have those kind of reservations or am I just being a big nancy about it?

FlyingPen
01-18-2008, 1:59 PM
I definitely wouldn't feel good about it but I think that applies to any deadly item.

I'm sure my car can be stolen, taken for a joy ride and end up killing someone through speed or DUI. But I don't think that means I'll stop driving my car.

MudCamper
01-18-2008, 2:00 PM
Ok thanks so essentially:

1. It is legal to have an unloaded firearm in the car following the proper rules for handguns and rifles and AW.

2. It is legal to use that said gun to defend yourself or your property or another person if it is reasonable to believe that any of the above are in "grave" danger.

Whoa. You snuck that "defend ... your property" thing in there. Whether or not you may use lethal force is a whole different can of worms.

As for the rest of it, yes, provided you also contacted the police. Otherwise you are not exempted from 12031 per (j) (1) .

One question specifically about handguns, there was some talk in threads about "lawful" purpose of going to a range or moving the firearm from your house to a smith or something. Is that an actual law, I haven't seen it yet in the code specifically for a handgun.

This is 12026.1 vs. 12026.2, and it applies to handguns, not long guns. You didn't read my flyer or this thread: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=82922

FlyingPen
01-18-2008, 2:07 PM
Person and property of himself, does that mean property? That's why I "snuck" it in there.


Thanks, I'll go ahead and read that.

JohnJW
01-18-2008, 4:00 PM
I think it's best to leave guns out of simple traffic disagreements. The driver from the other car may have his own valid reason for his actions. . . .

You really have to be extra careful when you have a gun in your car because an innocent statement may not be so innocent when combined with the gun in your trunk.

Anyway, I used to throw my unloaded handgun and a couple loaded magazines into the trunk if I have to drive more than a couple hundred miles. I also thought about the possibility of my car being stolen so when I get to my destination I usually take the slide off and carry only the frame in my backpack, without the loaded magazines.

Was it legal for me to walk around with just a handgun frame in my backpack?

Rob P.
01-18-2008, 4:06 PM
I think it's best to leave guns out of simple traffic disagreements. The driver from the other car may have his own valid reason for his actions. . . .

You really have to be extra careful when you have a gun in your car because an innocent statement may not be so innocent when combined with the gun in your trunk.

Anyway, I used to throw my unloaded handgun and a couple loaded magazines into the trunk if I have to drive more than a couple hundred miles. I also thought about the possibility of my car being stolen so when I get to my destination I usually take the slide off and carry only the frame in my backpack, without the loaded magazines.

Was it legal for me to walk around with just a handgun frame in my backpack?

No. The bare frame is still a "weapon capable of being concealed on the person" because the frame/receiver IS the firearm. The fact that it can't "shoot" anything is irrelevant. What is relevant is that you were carrying it "concealed".

artherd
01-18-2008, 6:37 PM
Two things (THE ONLY TWO!) to say after any shooting:
1) "I was in fear for my life"
2) "I want to speak with my attorney"

SAY NOTHING ELSE, EVER!

metalhead357
01-18-2008, 6:55 PM
Two things (THE ONLY TWO!) to say after any shooting:
1) "I was in fear for my life"
2) "I want to speak with my attorney"

SAY NOTHING ELSE, EVER!


+1000000000000000000

I tagged this thread late last night to respond to today with pretty much just that statement. Just arriving now...I see ya'll beat me to the punch and then some!!!!!

Trunk guns are for gangbangers

No trunk guns are for the prepared. Under-seat/In-a-Bag non-registered/illegally aquired guns ARE gangbanger guns;)

supersonic
01-18-2008, 7:10 PM
WTF does a rape van looking vehicle actually look like? A.....................VAN?:confused:

metalhead357
01-18-2008, 7:33 PM
LOL! I was wondering that too. Would a 70's roller with a waterbed and graphics on the side of a BIG gladiator count? Or how about a minivan with the lights smoked out and the windows tinted all the way 'round? Or how about the ubiquitous county van with BARS on the windows?:confused:

FlyingPen
01-18-2008, 8:41 PM
It's like one of the old Ford vans with no windows in primer black. At least that's what my friends and I call rape vans.

redneckshootist
01-18-2008, 9:03 PM
It's like one of the old Ford vans with no windows in primer black. At least that's what my friends and I call rape vans.

sounds like my work van. I am a HVAC service tech not a rapest;)

I carry a truck gun everywhere I go, Ive even been questioned about it by LEO too. but since it wasnt loaded and was a long gun there were no problems.

dondo
01-18-2008, 9:04 PM
Its actually part of their discontinued "Abductor" series. Primer black, 3 bald tires and a shopping bag full of duct tape and paint thinner. It was a big seller in the Oakland area but nationwide sales were poor. I am sure someone could make sense of those details.

supersonic
01-19-2008, 6:26 AM
I say there is one of two answers. 1) The people who call these vehicles (whatever they are) "rape vans" have either raped someone OR been raped in one, OR, 2) the "moniker" started with the van driven by Ted Levine ("Buffalo Bill") in Silence of the Lambs. But who knows? Maybe Ashton Kutcher convinced the T.V brass to let him purchase the "tear-drop rear side window" van from "That 70's Show" when the series ended so he could......well. RAPE Demi Moore in it for years to come!!!!!!:p:p:p;)

11Z50
01-19-2008, 7:41 AM
Back to topic......;)

Trunk guns are legal as long as they are not loaded. They can be quite handy, and there are scenarios I can think of where one might use one in self defense. From time to time, I feel the need to bring a longarm along. I have a hardcase that fits either my Remington 870 or my SU-16. I put my hunting license in the case with the weapon, (never know when you might have a chance to shoot some ground squirrels) and place the appropriate ammo in a .mil ammo can. I place everything in the back of my SUV and cover it up with a blanket or something, to avoid drawing the attention of thieves.

As far as self-defense scenarios, they are only limited by your imagination. One I can think of is the mall-shooting situation. Another might be an extended business trip with multiple stops and overnight stays in less-than 5 star establishments. Yet another is if one cannot get a CCW due to oppressive county policy, a trunk gun is better than nothing.

While I don't think a road-rage incident should generally be justification for deadly force, it could get out of hand. I've seen heated arguments at crash scenes, and I suppose one might have to defend one's self.

supersonic
01-19-2008, 11:51 AM
YES, YES!!!! Back on topic!!!!!!!!:p :

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb181/giftedgiver/RoadRage1.jpg

JohnJW
01-19-2008, 2:19 PM
No. The bare frame is still a "weapon capable of being concealed on the person" because the frame/receiver IS the firearm. The fact that it can't "shoot" anything is irrelevant. What is relevant is that you were carrying it "concealed".

Okay, I guess I'll take the slide/barrel assembly next time. . . .

Librarian
01-19-2008, 2:46 PM
I think of things like being away from home, and we have Our Earthquake (http://www.abag.ca.gov/bayarea/eqmaps/gif99/concccgm.gif). Car's out of gas or disabled, roads are broken or clogged, and it's time to walk to a safer place.

An SKS with a sling and maybe 100 rounds ought to get me home. My cars have a backpack of 'stuff', including food and water and extra clothing.

Short of that, I figure a trunk gun would just gather dust and exhaust fumes.

technique
01-19-2008, 8:29 PM
I think of things like being away from home, and we have Our Earthquake (http://www.abag.ca.gov/bayarea/eqmaps/gif99/concccgm.gif). Car's out of gas or disabled, roads are broken or clogged, and it's time to walk to a safer place.

An SKS with a sling and maybe 100 rounds ought to get me home. My cars have a backpack of 'stuff', including food and water and extra clothing.

+1 to that!

M. Sage
01-19-2008, 8:37 PM
I think of things like being away from home, and we have Our Earthquake (http://www.abag.ca.gov/bayarea/eqmaps/gif99/concccgm.gif). Car's out of gas or disabled, roads are broken or clogged, and it's time to walk to a safer place.

An SKS with a sling and maybe 100 rounds ought to get me home. My cars have a backpack of 'stuff', including food and water and extra clothing.

Short of that, I figure a trunk gun would just gather dust and exhaust fumes.

Umm.. you'd be able to drop about 60 rounds of that ammo. 100? That's a hell of a lot of shooting.

Librarian
01-20-2008, 12:31 AM
Umm.. you'd be able to drop about 60 rounds of that ammo. 100? That's a hell of a lot of shooting.
Yeah; I don't get out to practice enough, so I'm not that great a shot.:( 10 rounds on a stripper clip weighs 6 oz; I'd probably be better off with a liter of water than 5 of those filled clips.

metalhead357
01-20-2008, 1:17 AM
Yeah; I don't get out to practice enough, so I'm not that great a shot.:( 10 rounds on a stripper clip weighs 6 oz; I'd probably be better off with a liter of water than 5 of those filled clips.


One of those conundrums of a survivlaist's nightmare; more food vs. ammo. You DONT want to get into a firefight....and god save ya' if you do-- but then you will go through that 100 rounds pretty dang quick: or do you chance it with fewer rounds? Or take them all only to arrive unscathed and think WTF did I bring all this ammo for.

For me...I would rather have the additional ammo.

oldrifle
01-20-2008, 10:06 AM
I'm confused. Isn't it the time to have a loaded gun in your hands when you are in physical danger of being killed? I was not aware that it was illegal to use a gun to defend yourself. I drive around with rifles and shotguns in my trunk all the time (going to and from a shooting session)... that's not illegal. If I am in serious physical danger, you can be sure that I'll grab my Mossy and pop a shell or two in there and defend myself... especially if the other party has a gun and I can't avoid attack. These are strange times we live in if you could be thrown in jail for that... what are we supposed to do, whip out a cell phone and wait 20 minutes for a cop to show up while some psycho is waving a gun at our head? :mad:

FlyingPen
01-20-2008, 11:17 AM
Last time I called 911, they actually put me on hold for a few minutes.

oldrifle: I think it's been cleared up that imminent and grave danger against you, you are justified in endangering yourself but only up to the point where you're no longer in danger. As in, you can't shoot or kill someone who's running away from you or someone's who's already been disabled by you and no longer poses a threat.

oldrifle
01-20-2008, 4:07 PM
Last time I called 911, they actually put me on hold for a few minutes.

oldrifle: I think it's been cleared up that imminent and grave danger against you, you are justified in endangering yourself but only up to the point where you're no longer in danger. As in, you can't shoot or kill someone who's running away from you or someone's who's already been disabled by you and no longer poses a threat.

Hah. Last time I called 911 I was put into a queue like I was calling a customer service center. I waited for 20 minutes with it saying "please continue to hold". Eventually I just hung. I was trying to be a good Samaritan because I thought a woman was getting beaten up in an apartment down the street. I hope she's still alive... :no: That was in San Jose and I was using my cell phone. My neighbor said to never call 911 on a cell phone around here because they never answer. What the hell?? I'm supposed to count on these people to protect me? Nope, sorry. I'm my own first line of defense.

WokMaster1
01-20-2008, 7:44 PM
Hah. Last time I called 911 I was put into a queue like I was calling a customer service center. I waited for 20 minutes with it saying "please continue to hold". Eventually I just hung. I was trying to be a good Samaritan because I thought a woman was getting beaten up in an apartment down the street. I hope she's still alive... :no: That was in San Jose and I was using my cell phone. My neighbor said to never call 911 on a cell phone around here because they never answer. What the hell?? I'm supposed to count on these people to protect me? Nope, sorry. I'm my own first line of defense.

911 on your cell goes to the local CHP dispatch who then routes it to the nearest PD. Save the non emergency number (dispatch) on your cell. It'll be hell lot faster to get local help.

They are working on getting cell phone 911 calls to the nearest local dispatch & in fact, San Francisco might have already or nearly done it. I could be wrong.

Knauga
01-20-2008, 7:58 PM
The last time we had to call 911 from a cell is when I decided that I was going to apply for a CCW... thank goodness I live in a place that would issue. "Emergency 911 Calls" should not get a busy signal constantly for several minutes. Fortunately the insane crackhead didn't actually hurt any people.

We were basically trapped in a drive thru where an "aggressive panhandler" (crackhead) was taking advantage of the people being trapped in this drive thru and then starting to punch and kick the cars of people who wouldn't give him money. Yelling stuff like "I'll f*ck you up!" and "come on give me some money!" Didn't damage my car, I think because how I positioned it in the drive through, but he did put a hurt on a couple others in the drive thru.

The guy left before we ever got through to anybody on the phone. No cops showed up while we were still there. I also carry the regular number for the PD where I live because it rings right through to the dispatcher.

tyrist
01-20-2008, 9:06 PM
CHP dispatch is overwhelmed with all the people calling in drunk drivers and that is usually what your cell phone goes to. Hence the long wait. Get the actual (not the 911) number for your local police and place it on speed dial. Unless you are on the freeway you have to wait for CHP to get to you, diagnose your problem, and then be transferred to local police to handle. Also unless somebodies life is in peril or the crimminal is actually present and not fleeing in a vehicle at 60 mph don't even dial 911. There is a non emergency number you should use for all police reports and other matters.

alex00
01-25-2008, 12:56 PM
One of your biggest hurdles in using a trunk gun will be the rules involving "self defense". In California to use deadly force in self defense, all avenues of escape must be exhausted. If you find yourself in a road rage situation, and stop your car to retrieve your weapon, you are not exhausting escape routes. One intent of the law is to make firearms inaccessible to the driver of a car. That is why they must be carried unloaded, in locked boxes or in the trunk.

You will have a hard time proving you have exhausted all escape routes if your car is still able to move under its own power. The situation where a person is coming at you with a knife or bat is a problem, because you have stopped, putting yourself in that position. If someone is shooting at you from a moving vehicle, would you really want to be shooting back? Consider freeway, residential, or business streets. Where are your bullets going when they miss their intended target? Look at the use of force Orders for most Police and Sheriff's Departments, and if shooting from a moving vehicle is not outright prohibited, it is extremely discouraged.

Unless you are trapped in a crashed car, lying on the ground with broken legs or cornered in an alley, it will be very, very hard to prove self defense when shooting at an attacker who is not armed with a gun. Do you really want to be sitting in the defense chair when the "guy in the rapist van" is sitting on the witness stand, with his tattoos covered by his long sleeve turtle neck and his brand new glasses tells the jury how the crazy guy with a gun blocked his path and shot at him. Of course he had a baseball bat, he was trying to defend himself from the crazy guy with a gun. After all, he was on his way to take warm food to his dying grandmother.

It's crazy and stupid, but private citizens are not allowed to "hold their ground". This only applies to Law Enforcement. You must must must must try to escape before using deadly force, period. I'm in no way saying not to carry a gun, just be very careful.

vandal
01-25-2008, 1:48 PM
Soon you will call 911 and after a series of clicks and beeps your call will be answered by a guy with a heavy Indian accent who answers to "Bob."

"Hello and thank you for calling nine-one-one. My name is 'Bob' and I will be assisting you to-day with your emergency! How may I provide excellent service to you to-day?"

"There is a maniac trying to run me off the road!"

"Yes, now may I please get the name of the city you are calling from?"

"Highway 580 east, near Livermore!"

"I'm understand. Would you please spell the name of the city for me?"

"L-i-v-e-r-m-o-r-e."

"O-kay. Now I need to ask you a series of questions that may help to resolve your emergency. Are your headlights on?"

"Headlights? No, they are not on."

"O-kay. Please turn your headlights on."

"WTF!"

"Sir! I need you to answer the question before we can proceed."

"YES my headlights are on."

"O-kay. Is your car engine operating?"

"Just send the police!"

"Do you have an active service contract with us? If you provide me with your account number I can check."

"GAAA! He just rammed me!"

"I'm sorry sir, but I can't hear you. If you still need assistance, please call back. Goodbye."

MudCamper
01-26-2008, 2:32 AM
That is why they must be carried unloaded, in locked boxes or in the trunk.

Actually, the 12026.1 and .2 exemptions to 12025 apply to concealed handguns only. You can carry your rifle in your car however you want (but unloaded of course).

alex00
01-26-2008, 8:52 AM
Actually, the 12026.1 and .2 exemptions to 12025 apply to concealed handguns only. You can carry your rifle in your car however you want (but unloaded of course).

You're absolutely right. I was only referring to handguns. I'm not sure how practical carrying a rifle or shotgun in the passenger compartment may be. It would be a pain to secure and hide from sight. Imagine the looks you'll get in the parkinglot when you move your rifle from the backseat to the trunk :D

outersquare
01-27-2008, 12:52 AM
One of your biggest hurdles in using a trunk gun will be the rules involving "self defense". In California to use deadly force in self defense, all avenues of escape must be exhausted. If you find yourself in a road rage situation, and stop your car to retrieve your weapon, you are not exhausting escape routes. One intent of the law is to make firearms inaccessible to the driver of a car. That is why they must be carried unloaded, in locked boxes or in the trunk.

You will have a hard time proving you have exhausted all escape routes if your car is still able to move under its own power. The situation where a person is coming at you with a knife or bat is a problem, because you have stopped, putting yourself in that position. If someone is shooting at you from a moving vehicle, would you really want to be shooting back? Consider freeway, residential, or business streets. Where are your bullets going when they miss their intended target? Look at the use of force Orders for most Police and Sheriff's Departments, and if shooting from a moving vehicle is not outright prohibited, it is extremely discouraged.

Unless you are trapped in a crashed car, lying on the ground with broken legs or cornered in an alley, it will be very, very hard to prove self defense when shooting at an attacker who is not armed with a gun. Do you really want to be sitting in the defense chair when the "guy in the rapist van" is sitting on the witness stand, with his tattoos covered by his long sleeve turtle neck and his brand new glasses tells the jury how the crazy guy with a gun blocked his path and shot at him. Of course he had a baseball bat, he was trying to defend himself from the crazy guy with a gun. After all, he was on his way to take warm food to his dying grandmother.

It's crazy and stupid, but private citizens are not allowed to "hold their ground". This only applies to Law Enforcement. You must must must must try to escape before using deadly force, period. I'm in no way saying not to carry a gun, just be very careful.

http://www.calccw.com/Forums/general-faq/1361-jury-instructions-dealing-justifiable-homicide.html

[A defendant is not required to retreat. He or she is entitled to stand his or her ground and defend himself or herself and, if reasonably necessary, to pursue an assailant until the danger of (death/great bodily injury/________) has passed. This is so even if safety could have been achieved by retreating.]

odysseus
01-27-2008, 2:17 AM
http://www.calccw.com/Forums/general-faq/1361-jury-instructions-dealing-justifiable-homicide.html

[A defendant is not required to retreat. He or she is entitled to stand his or her ground and defend himself or herself and, if reasonably necessary, to pursue an assailant until the danger of (death/great bodily injury/________) has passed. This is so even if safety could have been achieved by retreating.]

Thanks for the link on that.

I believe Alex1200 is making good points in regard to imminent danger. In regards to being out in the streets in your car, that standard may be a bit high, and certainly one needs to understand that.