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View Full Version : Savage 10 FCP vs Remington 700 as SHTF 308 Caliber bolt action rifle?


jpkar
09-26-2013, 3:52 PM
In case I was placed in a situation where I would have to reach beyond 600yrds to protect my ome base then I would want a bol action 308.

Which of the two rifles will be best for SHTF in terms of accuracy, reliability, ease of maintenance, availability of parts etc.

Which would be good for defending home base from farther away threats?

3GunFunShooter
09-26-2013, 4:19 PM
I went with a Savage FCP 10 308 with the Accu-Stock, Accu-Trigger, scope mounting rail. Magazine fed, 24" heavy barrel, fluted, and threaded. Plus it was a special run and it is 5R barrel. Paid $829 plus fees and taxes.
I wanted the Remington 700 5R Stainless, but base on that is about $1,250. Buddy has one, very nice. (But like you wrote, I too wanted something for SHTF)
Without magazine feed, and no threaded barrel. I am a Remington fan, but read a lot of good things about the Savage. Plus I wanted to buy before the long gun registration kicks in. Have not had a chance to break it in. Besides the better half does not know about this one yet! LOL! For optics, I went cheap with a Primary Arms 4-14, just to get some optics on it to play with out at Sac Valley. Yes, I know I need a better scope.

LMT4ME
09-26-2013, 8:05 PM
Need to better define what you want - sniper or low weight hunting/tactical. What's he yardage - 100 yards get a 30-30 lever (I can lay down 5 shots whereas a bolt might get 2 or 3), 500 yds then a bolt plus $$ scope will be needed.

LMT4ME
09-26-2013, 8:47 PM
BTW you would have better response & much much better info if you posted in the Rifle section and not here where you'd get really great recommendation on where's the cheapest 10lb can of dried potatoes

aznwolf118
09-26-2013, 10:03 PM
The remington aac-sd in 16.5 is a handy length and feels good.
Just a quick shim job if you plan to bi pod it though.

kayaker
09-26-2013, 10:10 PM
SHTF long range rifle; So you think you are going to be shooting people at 400 yards, how do you know they aren't friendly? I know people here like to fanaticize, buy tacticool sniper rifles and dress them up with lots of cool gadgets. What's wrong with a good old deer rifle?

Cypriss32
09-26-2013, 10:14 PM
AR10 18" barrel, 3-18 Mark6. Its about as good as it gets for me. If I had to take a factory bolt gun: Rem 700 AAC 20". Thats the best 308 bolt gun deal going today. I see them for 550-625.00 all day on this sight!

Cypriss32
09-26-2013, 10:15 PM
I know people here like to fanaticize, buy tacticool sniper rifles and dress them up with lots of cool gadgets.

This makes me laugh....... I guess you really know NOTHING about bolt guns or optics. Its nice to carry 2 10r mags instead of a stupid box of ammo. Good scopes "tactical scopes" have some of the most repeatable adjustments and can take abuse. Wouldnt that be good for SHTF?

FeuerFrei
09-26-2013, 10:21 PM
Remington 700 SPS Tactical in 308.
Mine is 10.5 lbs loaded and 20" bbl can do the 500 - 800 yard gig all day long.
*AAC-SD is can capable. ;)
Remington 700 type has pretty much been rung out as far as reliability and it is as common as unleaded fuel. These things are rock solid.

kayaker
09-26-2013, 10:29 PM
This makes me laugh....... I guess you really know NOTHING about bolt guns or optics. Its nice to carry 2 10r mags instead of a stupid box of ammo. Good scopes "tactical scopes" have some of the most repeatable adjustments and can take abuse. Wouldnt that be good for SHTF?

How much better is your tacticool sniper scope and my Leupold VX-III?

A magazine hanging under the receiver is a PITA. Do you really think you might be doing that much none stop shooting?

NorCalFocus
09-26-2013, 10:37 PM
Rem 700 Police with the 20" barrel.

Again with a SHTF situation, you can grab another 700 trigger or bolt real easy off another gun. Also the 20" barrel would def give you more of a carry rifle.

Cypriss32
09-26-2013, 11:28 PM
I've owned more leupolds then I can count on my hands and feet. I own zero now. My scopes I own now: bushnell hdmrs, NF, vortex. All of those scopes are leaps and bounds above your leupold. My mark 6 is equal to ten vx3 or mark 4. Glass is on par with euro scopes and quality is top tier. Vx 3 and mark 4 don't impress. I had 3 premier ffp 6.5-20x leupolds, none held their zeros. Very disappointed. And like most say: there warranty is good. It is in fact good, but I prefer not to buy scopes that need warranty. I have a NF that fell out of my truck while on a hunt with dents. Held zero and works good. It's with my friend in Alaska doing some hunting now and 5 years later it still works like new.

jigenax
09-27-2013, 12:08 AM
Not so much SHTF but for bench target shooting, I went with Savage. Picked up 2 Savages for the price of one Rem. While I love my buddy's 700, the price tag was a problem. So I opted for a .308 and a .223 Savage bolt guns instead.

When I was in the Marines, I qual'ed Expert on the M16A2 service rifle so hitting a dog target at 500 meters with .223 is manageable. I'll use the .308 for longer ranges up to 1 click. The problem for me, has been finding a KD range that goes out that far.

Lex
09-27-2013, 8:56 AM
C&R Mosin Nagant or Mauser...

WHITE MAMBA
09-27-2013, 10:50 AM
Best bet would be a light weight hunting rem700 in .308. Easy to find parts and rounds. If your not sure on a tactical style rifle or a hunting style rifle, put a 40lb pack on and carry a 15lb tactical rifle around . Make sure you hike uphill .:D

Paltik
09-27-2013, 12:50 PM
Not sure what "long range" means for you, but for SHTF I'd look first at a Ruger GSR. Mag-fed, iron sights. Shorter barrel means handier and lighter, but does also cut down the range; the way I shoot, though, the shorter range is still beyond my temperament.

problemchild
09-27-2013, 2:13 PM
Buy once cry once, just get the best and call it a day.

Either a nice bolt build DIY, a Gap bolt or Gap semi rifle.



I got an lmt mws and LOVE IT!. I would not trade it for a bolt gun.

http://www.michaelkdickson.com/webjunk/LMT/dog%20gun%20acog%20latest/IMG_2227a.jpg
http://www.michaelkdickson.com/webjunk/LMT/Desert%20shoot/Picture2%20007a.jpg
http://www.michaelkdickson.com/webjunk/LMT/Desert%20shoot/Topo.jpg
http://www.michaelkdickson.com/webjunk/LMT/Desert%20shoot/Picture2%20024.jpg

the86d
09-27-2013, 3:38 PM
...
http://www.michaelkdickson.com/webjunk/LMT/Desert%20shoot/Picture2%20024.jpg

Don't shoot the chain... ;)

jpkar
09-27-2013, 4:17 PM
Tnx for the response everyone. I already have other rifles for carry, patrol, short recons etc. I'm mainly envisioning using this 308 at home base to shoot about 600 meters to 1000
meters. I can hit 600 yards with iron sights (KAC) on AR, want something beyond that range. I'm leaning towards a bolt action since I've read it's more accurate than regular semiauto which is probably why snipers use it. I eventually want to own a 50 or maybe a 338 lapua but that might take awhile in terms of budget assuming its still available then. And ammowise it just seems too expensive and not ad available at this time and when shtf. Not sure of the optics yet but focusing on rifle for now. Anyone out there own both a savage and a 700?

DannyInSoCal
09-27-2013, 4:25 PM
Win Model 88 Lever Action in .308 is one of my favorites anyway -

Helluva lot easier to shoot faster than a bolt.

Now if I could only remember where I out that 8rd mag for it.....

Bakersfield_Grizzly
09-27-2013, 9:32 PM
Anyone who can shoot 500 yds with iron sights and put it on the paper, hats off to you, I can't even see the paper at 500 yds.

Steve_In_29
09-27-2013, 9:42 PM
Not sure what "long range" means for you, but for SHTF I'd look first at a Ruger GSR. Mag-fed, iron sights. Shorter barrel means handier and lighter, but does also cut down the range; the way I shoot, though, the shorter range is still beyond my temperament.
After handling both, I would HIGHLY recommend the Mossberg Patrol in .308 over the Ruger GSR. It's also about $300 cheaper and uses SR25 mags instead of proprietary Ruger ones.

For long range (out to 1000yds) this is the rifle I have been considering. http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/M10FCP10 I handled one in Turner's and the action was smooth as glass.

Steve_In_29
09-27-2013, 9:47 PM
Anyone who can shoot 500 yds with iron sights and put it on the paper, hats off to you, I can't even see the paper at 500 yds.
EVERY Marine can do this and at 500yds we are shooting at a man sized target not a big bulls eye.

jpkar
09-28-2013, 12:24 AM
After handling both, I would HIGHLY recommend the Mossberg Patrol in .308 over the Ruger GSR. It's also about $300 cheaper and uses SR25 mags instead of proprietary Ruger ones.

For long range (out to 1000yds) this is the rifle I have been considering. http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/M10FCP10 I handled one in Turner's and the action was smooth as glass.


what made you choose this over the 10 fcp mcmillan or 10 fcp hs precision

updated first page

DavidR310
09-28-2013, 2:26 AM
BTW you would have better response & much much better info if you posted in the Rifle section and not here where you'd get really great recommendation on where's the cheapest 10lb can of dried potatoes

Because here we actually believe you are more likely to die of hunger and thirst than face a 1000yd firefight during shtf, lol.

Ninask
09-28-2013, 2:37 AM
In SHTF you better have iron sights,
At least a med-long term situation,
Scopes get damaged and if there is no.shop/repair
Facilities you will have a non-functioning weapon

Lex
09-28-2013, 5:44 AM
Here is my SHTF Bolt Action..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GeV9xqLqp4

jpkar
09-28-2013, 3:04 PM
That's insane

penguin0123
09-28-2013, 4:17 PM
Which would be good for defending home base from farther away threats?

I'm mainly envisioning using this 308 at home base to shoot beyond about 600 meters to maybe 1000
meters

Are you sure you want a 308 to shoot beyond 600m? There is a reason the Army is moving onto 300 win mag. Also, I'm not sure how realistic is a use case where you need to engage threats at 600m. If you spot them that far away, shouldn't you E&E?

For more "in close" use, try a Spanish FR8. It is a large ring mauser chambered in 7.62 NATO. Replace the STANAG FH with a brake. The sights are the same as on a G3, so if you can hit 500m with AR sights, you should feel right at home with them. FR8 also has a reputation for accuracy.

http://www.fototime.com/605EB28F545320E/orig.jpg

Steve_In_29
09-28-2013, 11:44 PM
what made you choose this over the 10 fcp mcmillan or 10 fcp hs precision

updated first page
It was slightly cheaper and came with the scope rail and a 10rd mag. Plus the desert digi-cam matched my surroundings. They are all the same rifle you are simply paying for the upgraded stock with those other two. Which I think is mainly about ergonomics more so then accuracy.

12ga
09-29-2013, 12:21 AM
In my opinion, if you are looking for a SHTF rifle of any purpose, iron sights are a must (even if only as a backup to your scope)

Qualities of a good SHTF rifle are a bit different than that of a dedicated purposed rifle.
-It needs to be versatile, because you don't know what your situation is going to be.
-It needs to be the most reliable gun you have next to your home defense gun. You have to trust your life, and everyone you love's lives with it.
-It needs to be durable, you don't know what type of situation you will be dealing with. It needs to be able to be dragged through hell and still work (hence the need for iron sights.)
-It should probably be lightweight and quick to acquire targets.

Accuracy, muzzle velocity, and customize-ability are much less important to me.

I have a Ruger GSR for this purpose. I strongly considered an M1A. In the end, I felt the trade off of the bolt action was worth the lighter weight, higher potential reliability, and lower cost.

jpkar
09-29-2013, 5:14 PM
At this time, I'm really considering savage 10 fcp hs precision
I'm not really interested in rifles that cant go the distance
I have enough other rifles for short and medium range
Im specifically looking for longer distance beyond 600m
I have other rifles for patroling, etc
Im envisioning this 308 for a home base firearm to deter intruders far away
Eventually goal is to get 50 cal or 338 lapua for even longer distance but because of budget constraints and price of ammo not likely to happen soon

anyone have experience with a 700 remy
As I said, for now really leaning towards savage
but i apprecaite the input regarding other rifles

penguin0123
09-29-2013, 5:33 PM
I'm not really interested in rifles that cant go the distance
That is much more of a function of the ammo and much less of the rifle. If you don't reload, you should.

Im specifically looking for longer distance beyond 600m
If you are looking for minute of man at 600m, 7.62 NATO will do it. Heck, you can even lob 5.56 out to that distance. If you want more accuracy (and it sounds like you do) at even longer distances, you should really look into 338 lapua and barret 416.


Eventually goal is to get 50 cal or 338 lapua for even longer distance but because of budget constraints and price of ammo not likely to happen soon

I've learned the cheapest way is to spend the money, cry once, and be happy for the rest of your life.

jpkar
10-01-2013, 12:59 AM
agree on spend once cry once but dont own a 308 caliber then a 308 it is for now. Tnx for all the input, just felt trigger on savage and am sold. Will be getting a savage 10 fcp hs precision because of its accuracy out of the box and it is already bedded.

Cypriss32
10-01-2013, 1:26 PM
Since when is savage offering factory bedded rifles? The HS stocks are not bedded.... They have a alluninum bedding block to prevent the need for bedding.

Sunday
10-01-2013, 7:04 PM
SHTF will be gun confiscation. Because the people who have taken an oath to uphold the constitution do not. Don't count on fellow gun owners to help you when the blue helmets or the Russian troops come knocking on your front door for you registered gun.

jpkar
10-03-2013, 6:05 PM
Since when is savage offering factory bedded rifles? The HS stocks are not bedded.... They have a alluninum bedding block to prevent the need for bedding.

got it tnx, so is getting a stock that will need a traditional type of bedding superior to the HS stock that does not need bedding?

SHTF will be gun confiscation. Because the people who have taken an oath to uphold the constitution do not. Don't count on fellow gun owners to help you when the blue helmets or the Russian troops come knocking on your front door for you registered gun.

im not counting on anyone else

CobraRed
10-03-2013, 7:09 PM
God, you can tell this thread was made in the semi-auto forum.

prometa
10-03-2013, 7:11 PM
I wouldn't spend much time configuring a 600-1000m rifle for a SHTF situation.

A) as others said, how do you know you're not shooting at a friendly
B) why would you want to give away your position from so far away

If I'm going to spend all the time to make a rifle that can shoot accurately to 1000m, I'd rather spend the time to make it shoot that far for a purpose I'm likely to need it for.

Not that we shouldn't be ready in case SHTF, but 1000m shots are not going to be a high priority or common occurrence.

vintagedude88
10-03-2013, 9:05 PM
Bolt gun for SHTF? You gotta be kidding me.

Seems like all the mall ninjas are jumping ship from the semi-auto forum into here in preparation of SB374.

jpkar
10-03-2013, 11:01 PM
SHTF for me means being prepared for as many scenarios as possible, I want to have tools for CQB, med range and long range why is everyone making such a big deal of the fact that I want a long range tool as well lol...Already have tools for CQB and med range so don't worry about those.

jpkar
10-03-2013, 11:01 PM
if you have nothing helpful to add to thread then keep on trucking

shoebox56
10-04-2013, 4:17 AM
Bolt gun for SHTF? You gotta be kidding me.

Seems like all the mall ninjas are jumping ship from the semi-auto forum into here in preparation of SB374.

Well, the OP did ask the question in a Manually Operated section. So what?!

postal
10-04-2013, 2:18 PM
It was asked in survival and prep. A mod moved it here.

OP- the more important question is what is your level of interest in learning long range rifle. Anyone with the wallet can buy the nice stuff capable of long range, but learning to use it well is a long slow road. Lots of books/reading/studying, a few DVD are good, trainups, competitions to hone your skill and learn while doing.

It isnt a matter of having the right gear/rifle- It's learning how to use it efficiently and effectively that takes time and effort.

jpkar
10-04-2013, 4:08 PM
Can't learn to shoot long distance without the proper rifle. Getting the rifle is the first step. But agree on needing learn long distance shooting

jpkar
10-04-2013, 4:16 PM
I didn't realize this thread was moved here!

tacticalcity
10-04-2013, 4:28 PM
None of the upcoming laws awaiting signature effect bolt action rifles however there is a law from 2011 that will require registering long guns purchased 2014 and forward.

I've been considering the Remington 700 SPS Tactical myself. I'm now leaning towards the Remington 700 SPS AAC-SD 20" Barreled .308 rifle instead of the basic model. It is a really nice platform upon which to build a good stick. The stock is not the greatest, but that's just motivation to go with something really fun like an ACIS 2.0, or McMillian A5.

I don''t think SHTF is the proper roll for it. Especially if bugging out. I'd prefer an M4 for that long walk North myself. Lighter, faster target acquisition, pure speed all the way around. I'm not worried about bad guys I can hide from by seeing cover in the brush. I'm worried about the ones I can't because they've stumbled onto me and there is no where to go but through them. I would not want to have to rack the bolt and deal with magnified optics in a situation like that. That is what I consider SHTF. If I have the luxury of taking 600 yard shots...I'd rather not take them. Not unless I am being tracked or something. In which case an AR can say "stop following me" pretty darn well too even at 600 yards.

But I would very much like a precision bolt gun in the collection - and to my mind nothing off the rack beats a Remington 700 for versatility and customization options.

BradleyAbrams
10-05-2013, 6:10 AM
If one were unfortunate enough to be involved in any number of theoretical SHTF scenarios... well, then; Ideally ( IMHO ) you would need TWO rifles and a Handgun in order to CYA.

These systems would be as follows;

One Uber-dependable Semi-Auto for CQB within 100 Meters range; and also with the inherent capability of good ballistic performance out to 300 Meters or so.

A second Rifle for sniping and harassment at distances ranging from 200 Meters on out to 600 - 700 meters on store bought or military issue .308 ( 7.62 X 51 ) ammo.


These are the platforms which I would suggest:

Semi Auto ( 7.62 X 39 )

AKM derivative / AMD65 (Modified )


http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/blndyhb/Cars/ZOMBATKARBINA047.jpg (http://s43.photobucket.com/user/blndyhb/media/Cars/ZOMBATKARBINA047.jpg.html)




And for those Special Times when you feel the absolute need to Reach Out and Touch someone...



Bolter ( .308 )

Savage 10PC - Accutrigger, Accustock, bottom fed 4-Rd mag*

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/blndyhb/IMG_1578-1.jpg (http://s43.photobucket.com/user/blndyhb/media/IMG_1578-1.jpg.html)


Mag* - Aftermarket 10Rd mag from DarkEagle Customs is a good choice to augment the 10PC's 4-Rd OEM magazines.

http://www.darkeaglecustom.com/images/products/savage10RoundMagazineSA.jpg


And as a firearm of last resort; a Browning Hi-Power ( 9mm )



Again, just my opinion... :)



---

tacticalcity
10-05-2013, 6:32 AM
He said he wanted it for SHTF, so I went the SHTF route. His choice of purpose. When I think SHTF I think massive natural disaster, war, etc. I think of need to get out of dodge ASAP, and supply chain is depleted. Katrina x10 meets WWIII. The unthinkable. The impossible suddenly becoming reality. Otherwise you could just hunker down and wait it out and nobody would be trying to hurt each other aside from a few opportunists. The absolute worst case scenerio we couldn't even imagine.

The handgun on your hip is a given. It goes hand in hand with a rifle. Especially in CQB. Fastest reload is another gun. But that is a lot of rifles for two arms to carry along with food, medical supplies, armor, bug-out bag, ammo, etc.

If you have a vehicle, or more than one person you can bring all kinds of things you otherwise could not. If you're on foot and alone you have to pick and choose what stays and what goes.

rm1911
10-05-2013, 9:52 PM
What's wrong with a good old deer rifle?

For one it's not "tactical". Two it doesn't have any "tactical" parts. Three it didn't come with a "tactical" price tag. Four everyone will laugh at you because you don't have a "tactical" rifle. Five it's not tactical. Did I mention that already???

Actually nothing at all. Most modern deer rifles will do MOA maybe 1.5MOA. translate that out far enough and that's more than fine for 600yds. Way more than fine. As for bolt rifles and SHTF well yes, there's a place for sure. Lots of uses. It should be part of any plan. And part of that plan is shooting it and being competent with it. Rifle shooting is skill and craft.

tacticalcity
10-05-2013, 11:05 PM
"What's wrong with a good old deer rifle?"

Nothing wrong with it at all. It is just a matter of taste and preference. The same could be said of the tactical rifles he likes. What's wrong with them? Same answer. Nothing. Different strokes for different folks.

postal
10-06-2013, 4:40 PM
I'm getting really tired of everything under the sun being tactical.... even pens.....

However, I would point out one single difference between a deer rifle and a 'tactical rifle'.... is the stock.

As long as the hunting rifle DOES **NOT** have a wood stock, it's fine. On occasion you see rifles with the laminated stocks which would be fine... but not a traditional wood stock. The changes in humidity and long term rain/wet conditions will mess up traditional wood stocks very quickly which has a significant effect on accuracy. Even if the stock looks fine.

This isnt much issue with the laminates because there's so much glue, and they're layered like plywood.

So, a fiberglass or composite or laminate stocked hunting rifle would be fine- just not traditional wood stocked.