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JohnnyAppleseed
01-17-2008, 7:46 PM
Hello Everyone,

I am new to this forum. I am just wondering if it's legal to hike with a handgun in Southern California wilderness areas?

Recently I was hiking in the Santa Monica mountains and came across a group of teenagers "tagging" up an old shed near Camp Josepho. I was with myself and my girlfriend and there were about 6 of these teens.

Needless to say we were somewhat scared. The teens followed us down a trail at one point and we had to take a side trail. The whole time they were whistling at us but I did not want to engage because I had no weapon and didn't feel like dealing with "hoodlums in the forest."

Just reminded me of the Black Star Canyon incident where those 2 guys were beaten and their girlfriends raped by gang members.

In any case. I would like to carry a gun while hiking from now on but having difficulty locating specific laws. Is a permit required? Is it completely against the law?

Thanks in advance...

Johnny

tombinghamthegreat
01-17-2008, 7:55 PM
It is illegal to do. If I could i would carry my mossberg 590 when i go on long hikes in the hills. Also you could open carry a bowie knife or have a pocket knife or some other legal defense. Of course a gun is better but you could risk going to jail without a CCW permit.

MrTuffPaws
01-17-2008, 7:55 PM
You can legally open carry in any non-incorporated area as long as it is not on a public road. Public trails are okay.

I am pretty sure that concealed carry is not an option unless you have a CCW.

Update:
Looking in my How to Own a Gun in & Stay Out of Jail, it states that you can carry a gun in non-incorporated areas that are not "prohibited".

Prohibited means any place that it is not legal to shoot a gun. It also states that most counties have ordinances that prohibit shooting guns except in designated areas. You would have to check with the county laws.

GuyW
01-17-2008, 8:03 PM
You can legally open carry in any non-incorporated area as long as it is not on a public road. Public trails are okay....


C'mon - the above isn't true...state parks and national parks are in unincorporated areas, and you can't open carry there....it's not true other ways as well, but this is sufficient to put readers on guard...

MrTuffPaws
01-17-2008, 8:19 PM
C'mon - the above isn't true...state parks and national parks are in unincorporated areas, and you can't open carry there....it's not true other ways as well, but this is sufficient to put readers on guard...

Read the update in the rest of my post about prohibited areas. State and national parks are prohibited. It boils down to if you are not in a city, in a place that prohibits shooting guns, and not on a public road, you are allow to carried a loaded non-concealed gun.

Of course finding a place like that is near impossible, but hey, one might get lucky.

GuyW
01-17-2008, 8:21 PM
...Update:
Looking in my How to Own a Gun in & Stay Out of Jail, it states that you can carry a gun in non-incorporated areas that are not "prohibited".

Prohibited means any place that it is not legal to shoot a gun. It also states that most counties have ordinances that prohibit shooting guns except in designated areas. You would have to check with the county laws.


Sorry, you are still confusing the issues of "loaded gun" and open carry of a gun...

gose
01-17-2008, 8:26 PM
Get a hunting license and restrict your hiking to national forests ;)

8200rpm
01-17-2008, 8:26 PM
Find better places to hike. If hooligans hike there, it's probably not that great of a hike.

You won't find any hooligans here...

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/2801/mtwhitneylc1.jpg

MrTuffPaws
01-17-2008, 8:33 PM
Sorry, you are still confusing the issues of "loaded gun" and open carry of a gun...

There is only a concealed gun law and a loaded gun law when it comes to carrying a gun.

If the gun is not concealed, and the situation is in exception to loaded gun law, then it is legal to open carry it loaded. The situation I outlined is in exception to the loaded gun law.

elroy
01-17-2008, 8:36 PM
what if the area has mountain lions or bears ? what if you are riding a bike offroad and its in a pack on the bike ?

8200rpm
01-17-2008, 8:39 PM
what if the area has mountain lions or bears ? what if you are riding a bike offroad and its in a pack on the bike ?

What good is having a gun inside of a pack on a bike, when a cougar is biting down on your throat?:confused:

MrTuffPaws
01-17-2008, 8:41 PM
what if the area has mountain lions or bears ? what if you are riding a bike offroad and its in a pack on the bike ?

There are exceptions to the load gun law if you are in grave immediate danger, but the chance of running into bears or gangs is not considered such.

As for the bike, the gun needs to be transported unloaded in a locked container, same as a car.

MrTuffPaws
01-17-2008, 8:43 PM
What good is having a gun inside of a pack on a bike, when a cougar is biting down on your throat?:confused:

The warm fuzzy feeling of knowing you have an empty gun locked in a container zipped in a pack. :eek:

bones138
01-17-2008, 9:08 PM
Some designated Wilderness areas can be hunted in also, so check the web and find out. Then get a hunting license for 30$ and carry a rifle when you go out.

JohnnyAppleseed
01-18-2008, 12:35 AM
So am I to understand correctly that if the gun is NOT LOADED you can carry it?

jjperl
01-18-2008, 1:08 AM
Ask yourself this... Is it worth risking your life and the life of your girlfriend to obey a law when you are miles away from any authority that can assist you?

For the record, I'm not advocating that you break the law, I'm just advocating that you use good reason when you put yourself and others in potentially high rick situations, such as the wilderness, where there's lions, tigers, bears and criminals.

Army
01-18-2008, 3:51 AM
Boiled down:

If the area of the Santa Monica's is NOT a state or national PARK, then as long as shooting/hunting is allowed in that area, carry is allowed...exposed is preferable.

If that area is National Forest, and shooting/hunting is allowed, it is still OK to carry...exposed is preferable.

Carry exposed so as to not run afoul of any concealed carry laws. Make sure the holster has good retainment, so as to not lose the weapon in a fall or stumble. You also want to be able to bring the weapon into play as soon as a danger is apparant, concealed carry can slow that process.

Whenever I go into the hills, I always have a pistol hanging on the belt. I've come across F&G and Sheriff Deputies while hiking, and have yet to have a lick of trouble. One F&G warden asked to see my Python...to compare it to his :)

Diabolus
01-18-2008, 6:21 AM
Boiled down:

If the area of the Santa Monica's is NOT a state or national PARK, then as long as shooting/hunting is allowed in that area, carry is allowed...exposed is preferable.

If that area is National Forest, and shooting/hunting is allowed, it is still OK to carry...exposed is preferable.

Carry exposed so as to not run afoul of any concealed carry laws. Make sure the holster has good retainment, so as to not lose the weapon in a fall or stumble. You also want to be able to bring the weapon into play as soon as a danger is apparant, concealed carry can slow that process.

Whenever I go into the hills, I always have a pistol hanging on the belt. I've come across F&G and Sheriff Deputies while hiking, and have yet to have a lick of trouble. One F&G warden asked to see my Python...to compare it to his :)


I hope you were talking about the Colt Python ;)

glockman19
01-18-2008, 9:02 AM
Santa Monica Park has posted NO GUNS signs at most if not all entrances.

M1A Rifleman
01-18-2008, 9:14 AM
I'm not familiar with the area you describe as I'm a northerner. If the area is within BLM or the National Forest lands, then you are allowed to open carry loaded handguns in areas not considered Public - meaning well used trails, parking lots, camp grounds. Conceled carry is allowed with a permit or while hunting.

Carrying rifles, last I recall had no restrictions in these areas, but there is the potential to be confused as a hunter and the potential for trouble from F&G. If the area you describe is a National or State Park - then weapons are illegal.

This information can easily be verifed for yourself at the DOJ webpage under the penal code.

Rob P.
01-18-2008, 10:27 AM
My god. So much FUD it's amazing.

I carry a LOADED* handgun EVERYTIME I am hiking/camping in the national forest. I carry it openly and visible (right out in front). I have had lengthy conversations with DFG, sheriff's, and forestry rangers while doing this. I am not shy about having it and I have NEVER been hassled or "taken down" while doing this because it is LEGAL. You DO NOT need a hunting license while doing this or to lie about why you're carrying the handgun either.

In a nutshell:

You can carry a loaded handgun EVERYWHERE so long as it is not a prohibited area or prohibited way to carry the handgun. You can do this because you are not prevented from carrying a handgun/firearm. Only restricted as to the PLACE and METHOD and/or LOADED STATUS when that handgun/firearm is carried.

Prohibited areas are:

School zones
INcorporated areas
Restricted areas
National or State PARKS
Government buildings
Highways and roads
Inside a vehicle
NO GUNS or HUNTING posted areas of private property
Private property in areas which are open to public access (such as common areas of multi-dwelling residential property)

Prohibited methods of carry

ANYTHING which conceals the handgun is prohibited (except locked container to/from car/range/etc**)
ANY other method of carry except in a visible belt holster.

Read the laws and get educated on what is legal and what is not and stop spreading BS. This whole subject is worse than OLL's when it comes to FUD.





[* This ONLY applies to LOADED handguns. UNLOADED handguns and rifles have a different set of rules.]
[** There are other exceptions to this which are not relevant to THIS post.]

MudCamper
01-18-2008, 10:48 AM
Was it in this National Park?

http://www.nps.gov/samo/

Unfortunately, firearms are (currently) prohibited in National Parks (and State Parks). Open Carry is not restricted in National Forrest or BLM. National Forrests and National Parks are not the same thing.

Update for this necrothread: Firearms in Forests and Parks (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=186457).

Diabolus
01-18-2008, 11:10 AM
This is a great thread as I do a LOT of hiking/camping and I am always confused.

Since I can carry a pistol, I assume it is OK for me to carry a rifle for protection as well?

Of course this is using the information that Rob P mentioned above.

MudCamper
01-18-2008, 11:29 AM
This is a great thread as I do a LOT of hiking/camping and I am always confused.

Since I can carry a pistol, I assume it is OK for me to carry a rifle for protection as well?

There are less restrictions on long guns than hand guns. 12025 applies only to hand guns. 12031 (prohibits carrying loaded) applies to all firearms.

Read the Open Carry Flyer (http://www.paul.net/guns/CaliforniaOpenCarry.pdf). Better yet, print it out and take it with you.

Update for this necrothread: Firearms in Forests and Parks (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=186457).

Diabolus
01-18-2008, 2:01 PM
There are less restrictions on long guns than hand guns. 12025 applies only to hand guns. 12031 (prohibits carrying loaded) applies to all firearms.

I repeat, you should read my Open Carry Flyer (http://www.paul.net/guns/CaliforniaOpenCarry.pdf). Better yet, print it out and take it with you.

Or go here: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=82922


I printed off that guide and put a copy in my backpack - its great.

Thank you very much, it clears up a lot of confusion. I was happy to learn that its much easier to carry a rifle in the areas I like to hike and camp.

mxndrnks
01-18-2008, 2:02 PM
Find better places to hike. If hooligans hike there, it's probably not that great of a hike.

You won't find any hooligans here...

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/2801/mtwhitneylc1.jpg

Mountaineer's route? Above Glacier Lake?

jc_stecker
01-18-2008, 3:45 PM
I just got back from several days of camping in La Jolla Valley and noticed some graffiti up there also. Honestly, what is the point; who's going to see it? Do rival gangs go camping up there to do some male bonding? :p

They don't allow firearms but I haven't seen anything about Ka-Bars or hatchets. ;)

FreedomIsNotFree
01-18-2008, 4:29 PM
Find better places to hike. If hooligans hike there, it's probably not that great of a hike.

You won't find any hooligans here...

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/2801/mtwhitneylc1.jpg

Mt Whitney? Done that one 3x....just got tired of all the people and rules...The picture looks like its the trail up from the base camp at about 12,000 ft.

FreedomIsNotFree
01-18-2008, 4:38 PM
I backpack through the Los Padres National Forest, more specifically around the Ventana Wilderness and I can tell you it is completely legal to open carry loaded, either a handgun or, of course, a rifle. You just cant do that in a National or State Park. As long as its UNincorporated, you are good to go.

Once you reach your campsite, if staying overnight, you may treat it as you would your home in regards to concealed carry, open carry..etc..etc.

Rob P. had some good information.

I ALWAYS have a pistol on my hip and a rifle in my hands...

One year, around harvest time, I saw a dead body floating down the river near Sykes Hot Springs....

Mountain Lions are probably the largest concern, but rest assured, they see you WAY before you see them most of the time. Typically they go the other way once they see or smell you. Once though, I noticed a mountain lion hanging out on a tree limb that was above the trail. I noticed him/her about 150 yards out and just made lots of noise until it left...

As for the gang banging type....I've rarely run into them...only around the Arroyo Seco area for some reason....the gang bangers dont like to hike much, not surprised, so I only see them either at the beginning or the end of the hike when I'm closer to civilization...

I think you did the right thing by avoiding a confrontation with those punks. I too would have felt uncomfortable if I was faced with a similar situation and was not armed.

Arm yourself!!!

Tyler
01-18-2008, 5:21 PM
I always carry out in the wilderness, and if I am in a national park or some such that restricts it, I carry this:

http://www.thebladeshop.com/ProductImages/sog/SOGF01T.jpg

Tomahawks have been used as a very effective offensive weapon for thousands of years. I carry mine regularly when backpacking. Axes are just good all around when out in the woods, if you get lost shelter building will be much easier than if you only had a knife. That an no one is going to screw with some guy wielding an axe :p

http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/May07/covers/MILOM001_cov.jpg

8200rpm
01-18-2008, 7:47 PM
Mountaineer's route? Above Glacier Lake?

The shot was taken from one of the 98 switchbacks, but it's looking towards Mountaineer's route.

SuperSet
01-18-2008, 9:33 PM
Any problems while 'gearing up' in the Trailhead parking lot? I had some interesting looks come my way from a tourist minivan during a recent Lk Tahoe stint.

dadoody
01-18-2008, 10:07 PM
I carry Bear Spray @ 5.3 Million SCUs and a K-BAR knife I use for......uh...fishing.


I never run into hooligans though during my hikes though. I never even see anyone close to being a hooligan.

I usually hike around Angeles National Forest area.

Army
01-19-2008, 1:20 AM
Actually, the "Tomahawk" was a gift from the French..along with scalping.

The Axe has been around since man figured out that rocks and sticks make good tools. But the Tomahawk is a fairly modern invention.

pnkssbtz
01-19-2008, 3:23 AM
I've done a few backpacking trips with a sword, while my buddy carries a spear...:coolgleamA:

Rob P.
01-19-2008, 9:50 AM
Any problems while 'gearing up' in the Trailhead parking lot? I had some interesting looks come my way from a tourist minivan during a recent Lk Tahoe stint.

No problems so long as you're in an unincorporated area (most likely because it's a trailhead but not always). I usually just strap on my pack and holster and then pull my pistol out of it's case, load and chamber, and then put it into the holster. If I'm somewhere where I can't do that I just carry the locked gun case until I'm "legal" and then load up.

People look, but don't seem to care much. Those that do, tend to decide to hike on other trails after I arrive. Which is fine with me cuz then I don't have to listen to them yap along the trail either in front or behind me.

Had an interesting discussion with a father of 3 once. They arrived just as I was gearing up and parked next to me. Mom, dad and 3 kids got out and saw me loading. Dad came over and started asking me all kinds of questions about my BACKPACK. I must have talked to him for almost 10 minutes about frameless packs and what the gear loops were for. In the end they decided to not hike the trail.

After they left I had a BLAST watching a momma bear and 2 cubs playing about 1/4 mile down the trail.

MudCamper
01-19-2008, 11:59 AM
Any problems while 'gearing up' in the Trailhead parking lot?

Technically, you can't load your fireams in the parking lot. It is certainly a place where you are not allowed to shoot, and therefore, 12031(f) triggers, and you can't carry loaded. Carry mags or speedloaders with you and load up on the trail.

12031. (a) (1) A person is guilty of carrying a loaded firearm when he or she carries a loaded firearm on his or her person or in a vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an incorporated city or in any public place or on any public street in a prohibited area of unincorporated territory.

(f) As used in this section, "prohibited area" means any place where it is unlawful to discharge a weapon.

hawk81
01-19-2008, 12:03 PM
Your safety and your girlfriends safety is more important than CALIFORNIA LAW.

Rob P.
01-19-2008, 3:04 PM
Technically, you can't load your fireams in the parking lot. It is certainly a place where you are not allowed to shoot, and therefore, 12031(f) triggers, and you can't carry loaded. Carry mags or speedloaders with you and load up on the trail.

12031. (a) (1) A person is guilty of carrying a loaded firearm when he or she carries a loaded firearm on his or her person or in a vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an incorporated city or in any public place or on any public street in a prohibited area of unincorporated territory.

(f) As used in this section, "prohibited area" means any place where it is unlawful to discharge a weapon.

A prohibited area requires that there be some sort of notice that it is a prohibited area. This means either a statute or ordinance or sign. MOST trailheads are in unincorporated areas in the NF. The NF allows firearms use/discharge. This means that UNLESS there is a specific ordinance prohibiting the discharge/carry of a weapon in the PARKING LOT at that specific trailhead, the discharge/carry of a weapon is not illegal. And, since it's a parking lot/trailhead it is not a "public street" and prohibited under the general prohibition.

SuperSet
01-19-2008, 3:46 PM
A prohibited area requires that there be some sort of notice that it is a prohibited area. This means either a statute or ordinance or sign. MOST trailheads are in unincorporated areas in the NF. The NF allows firearms use/discharge. This means that UNLESS there is a specific ordinance prohibiting the discharge/carry of a weapon in the PARKING LOT at that specific trailhead, the discharge/carry of a weapon is not illegal. And, since it's a parking lot/trailhead it is not a "public street" and prohibited under the general prohibition.

This was my understanding too since it makes a lot of sense to gear up before hitting the trailhead. After all, you're still in the NF; it's just paved there.

MudCamper
01-19-2008, 8:48 PM
In the NF's that I go, they prohibit shooting near all roads, campgrounds, rivers, streams, bodies of water, and anywhere people may be. As I said, "technically" this triggers 12031(f). Also, I go to the Mendocino National Forest a lot, and the rangers there are cool about guns, and just tell you to be safe. However, lately there has been a new Sheriff assigned to patrol in the forest also, and I spoke with him outside the Upper Lake ranger station, and he was young and full of piss and vinegar. He struck me as the type to nab you on any detail he could. So I keep my mags on my hip opposite my sidearm, unless I am in my camp or anywhere else I know for sure I am legal to load.

tombinghamthegreat
01-20-2008, 12:29 AM
Since where i hike is in the city, I carry this.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=7310&stc=1&d=1200817618

socalguns
01-20-2008, 11:15 PM
That is pure fiction

macentyre
08-25-2009, 1:04 PM
so here's my problem:

I live about four blocks down from a trailhead at the forest boundary. I would like to carry my weapon with me while hiking with my dogs due to the fact that there has been alot of Mtn Lion and Bobcat sightings and my neighbors dogs just almost died because they both got bit by a rattle snake right on the trail path.

I would feel alot better if I had my firearm with me just incase I found myself in that situation. I live in Big Bear Lake near the east end of town north of the airport and have to walk just that short distance to the forest....so if I put my gun in my backpack for four blocks its breaking the law because its concealed....the trailhead is at the end of my street and there is no place to park my truck so I can transport my firearm in my truck to the trailhead...what would you do in the situation?

I don't feel it necessary to drive four blocks down the street and try to find a place to park my truck just to transport my gun legally....ya know?...ridiculous!

Thanks,
mac

MallNinja
08-25-2009, 2:03 PM
Uh... can't you just keep your gun unloaded, then put a lock on the zipper of your backpack?

cineski
08-25-2009, 3:13 PM
There's many areas in the Angeles that has crap people running around.

I carry Bear Spray @ 5.3 Million SCUs and a K-BAR knife I use for......uh...fishing.


I never run into hooligans though during my hikes though. I never even see anyone close to being a hooligan.

I usually hike around Angeles National Forest area.

m98
08-26-2009, 4:17 AM
Ask yourself this... Is it worth risking your life and the life of your girlfriend to obey a law when you are miles away from any authority that can assist you?

For the record, I'm not advocating that you break the law, I'm just advocating that you use good reason when you put yourself and others in potentially high rick situations, such as the wilderness, where there's lions, tigers, bears and criminals.

x1...100% agree....The same thing applies about "gun control". Only applies to the law abider as criminals don't give a sh*t about what law makers have to say and the law makers need somebody to listen to their sh*t so law abiding citizens get screw'd.

basing110
08-26-2009, 12:28 PM
couldnt you just unloaded open carry with mag on other side and if anything happens takes 1-2sec to load and chamber?you can open carry almost anywhere unless its stated no firearms or school etc.. right?

Quiet
08-26-2009, 1:28 PM
so here's my problem:

I live about four blocks down from a trailhead at the forest boundary. I would like to carry my weapon with me while hiking with my dogs due to the fact that there has been alot of Mtn Lion and Bobcat sightings and my neighbors dogs just almost died because they both got bit by a rattle snake right on the trail path.

I would feel alot better if I had my firearm with me just incase I found myself in that situation. I live in Big Bear Lake near the east end of town north of the airport and have to walk just that short distance to the forest....so if I put my gun in my backpack for four blocks its breaking the law because its concealed....the trailhead is at the end of my street and there is no place to park my truck so I can transport my firearm in my truck to the trailhead...what would you do in the situation?

I don't feel it necessary to drive four blocks down the street and try to find a place to park my truck just to transport my gun legally....ya know?...ridiculous!

Thanks,
mac
Walk there.

Unloaded open carry from your home to the NF.
Loaded open carry while in the NF.
Unloaded open carry from the NF to your home.

ripcurlksm
08-26-2009, 2:42 PM
If you have no option to OC, get a small locking container for a pistol that has a built in combo lock. Keep the combo 1 click away from opening. If you use the last number as 0, you will also notice it will stop on zero and you can not over turn it in a panic. If you get into a situation where you have 5 seconds, unzip your g/f's pack off her back, one-click combo, insert mag and you're rolling.

http://base.cygnuspub.com/images/Products/LET/2009/Jul/300x300/TZCASE_TZ0011GRF_LET_0.png

CALPsidewinder
09-26-2009, 3:31 PM
couldnt you just unloaded open carry with mag on other side and if anything happens takes 1-2sec to load and chamber?you can open carry almost anywhere unless its stated no firearms or school etc.. right?

If I am not mistaken, open carry isn't illegal as long as the firearm is unloaded (except as stated in restricted areas and in a [car?]. There was a letter sent out by the LA County Sheriff to the departments, discussing the legalities of open carry and the situations deputies may find themselves in when someone utilizes their open carry rights. I believe that a peace officer can ask a carrier to present the arm for inspection to make sure it is not loaded but that is as far as they can go if the person has the legal right to own a firearm.

CALPsidewinder
09-26-2009, 3:37 PM
Here is the letter or bulletin, I saved a copy of it:

OPENLY CARRIED FIREARMS

Scenario:

You respond to a "Man with a gun" call at a local shopping mall. You locate the suspect walking through the mall. He is armed with a handgun carried in a belt holster. You detain the individual and determine that the handgun is unloaded. The subject has two fully loaded, highcapacity magazines for the weapon in his pocket. The subject explains that he is a believer in the Second Amendment and is carrying the weapon because he has a right to do so. What are your opinions as the handling deputy?
Discussion:

Earlier this year, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in District of Columbia v. Heller (128 S.Ct 2783) that the Second Amendment provided an individual right for persons to "keep and bear arms". Just as the right to free speech does not include the right to shout "fire" in a crowded theater, the Heller decision recognized reasonable limits on the exercise of that right. Prior to the Heller decision, case law in the 9th Federal Circuit (including California) held that the Second Amendment did not apply to individuals. In many respects, Heller is a landmark case. When a landmark decision is made, the Supreme Court does not decide all questions relating to the issue. It rules on the primary question, and then leaves it to lower courts to define the limits of the ruling through subsequent cases. Heller does not appear to impact any of California's weapons laws, but it does expose those laws to new challenge.

We have seen recent evidence of various gun rights advocacy groups attempting to raise those challenges. In several recent events, law enforcement officers have been presented with situations similar to the one above. Some of these events were audio recorded (and possibly video-recorded as well). It appears that the subjects were attempting to lure the officers into taking unfounded enforcement efforts to bring attention to their cause and/or to form the basis for court action.

This is also occurring at a time when law enforcement has been presented with several tragic events involving "active shooters". This presents a significant challenge to responding deputies. It is difficult to determine the intent of an armed person. If deputies casually approach an armed individual who proves to be an "active shooter", the consequences can be tragic for the deputy and public. On the other hand, appropriate officer safety measures in contacting armed persons may seem excessive to those who believe they are only securing a constitutional right.

We are not aware of any instances involving armed persons where the proper use of officer safety measures has produced liability for the agency or officer/deputy. Penal Code Section 12031(e) provides you with the authority to inspect any firearm carried in public to determine if it is loaded. Refusal to submit to an inspection is cause to arrest for a violation of Section 12031. This is an inspection authority and no probable cause is required to conduct an inspection. It should be noted that the purpose of this inspection is limited to a determination of whether or not the weapon is loaded.

You have the ability to run a records check of the weapon's serial number if it is visible to you during the course of the weapon inspection. Considerable case law holds that you are not required to "close your eyes" to things you observe during the lawful performance of your duties. Your authority to detain the subject while conducting the 12031(e) inspection is limited.

Once it is established that the weapon is being lawfully carried, and there are no other circumstances justifying the detention of the subject, the detention must end. As a general rule, with some exceptions discussed below, it is not illegal to carry an unloaded firearm in a public place. Here is a partial listing of circumstances where the simple possession of an unloaded firearm, in public, is prohibited:

*
Within 1,500 feet of a public or private school (grades K-12) (626.9 PC). (Note: Specific exceptions exist for residences, and for the transportation of firearms within containers.)
*
Upon the grounds of a university or college (626.9 PC).
*
By persons with felony convictions or by drug addicts (12021(a)(1) PC).
*
By persons with specified misdemeanor convictions (12021(a)(2) + 12021(c)(1) PC) (Note: The specified crimes are primarily assaults, batteries, domestic violence and weapons violations.)
*
In connection with street gang activity (12021.5 PC)
*
With the intent of committing a felony (12023 PC)
*
While wearing a mask to conceal identity (12040 PC)
*
Possession of a concealable firearm by a minor (12101 PC)
*
By persons adjudicated with mental disorders under specified conditions (8103(a)(1) WIC)
*
By persons who have been detained under 5150 WIC as a danger to self or others within the preceding five years. (8103(f)(1) WIC)

When is a firearm considered "loaded"?

The short answer is that it depends on the circumstances. Ordinarily, a firearm is loaded if the ammunition is placed into the weapon in a manner that it could be fired. If the suspect is being charged with carrying the firearm with the intent to commit a felony (12023 PC), then a special definition of "loaded" applies. The firearm is considered "loaded" if the weapon, and ammunition capable of being fired in the weapon, are in the immediate possession of the subject (12001(j) PC). Penal Code Section 171e provides a similar definition of "loaded" for firearms carried in the state capitol or offices (171c PC), and in the residences of designated elected officials (171d PC). Deputies should be familiar with this special definition, and be careful not to apply it to circumstances not involving a violation of sections 171c, 171d, or 12023.

The majority of offenses involving the carrying of a loaded weapon fall under 12031 PC. Section 12031(g) defines a weapon as being loaded when the ammunition is in, or attached to, the firearm. It specifically provides that a weapon is loaded if there is ammunition in the firing chamber, magazine or clip. The California Court of Appeal considered the question of when a weapon is loaded in the case of People v. Harvey Lee Clark (45 Cal App. 4th 1147). The defendant had a single-shot shotgun which had no shell in the chamber. It had a buttstock shell holder which held live rounds. The court clarified the "attached to" language of 12031(g) holding that the weapon was unloaded since the rounds could not be fired from the buttstock holder.

High Capacity Magazines (more than 10 rounds):

Effective January 1, 2000, it became a felony to manufacture, import, sell, keep for sale, give, or lend, a high-capacity magazine. There is no prohibition on the simple possession of a high capacity magazine.

Conclusion:

Law enforcement officers have the duty to protect the safety and rights of all members of our society. The "Open Carry" movement provides a very unique situation where a lawfully armed person will present an apparent threat to others. Penal Code Section 12031(e) is your primary tool to resolve these cases. It is also very important to remain cognizant of the agendas that various advocacy groups may possess. The best advice for dealing with any individual who may be trying to test you is: Remain professional, know the law, and enforce it fairly.

John D. Williams

Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department Newsletter

Field Operations Support Services

Henry Hill
09-26-2009, 5:03 PM
Why not instead of a handgun you just carry some bear mace or a knife . I'm not sure how you are supposed to carry either of those ( open or concealed ) but that would prob be less a of a problem ( legally ) and bear mace to a bunch of hoodlums would be pretty effective.. Can anyone chime in on the legality of those two options and how to carry?

Quiet
09-26-2009, 5:19 PM
Why not instead of a handgun you just carry some bear mace or a knife . I'm not sure how you are supposed to carry either of those ( open or concealed ) but that would prob be less a of a problem ( legally ) and bear mace to a bunch of hoodlums would be pretty effective.. Can anyone chime in on the legality of those two options and how to carry?

For self-defense use aganist people, the chemical spray can not be more than 2.5oz. It can be carried concealed or openly.

If the knife has a fixed blade, then it must be open carried in a sheath.
Folding knives can be carried concealed, as long as they are folded. If the folding knife is open, then it must be open carried in a sheath.


Penal Code 12020
(a) Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison:
(4) Carries concealed upon his or her person any dirk or dagger.
(c)(24) As used in this section, a "dirk" or "dagger" means a knife or other instrument with or without a handguard that is capable of ready use as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury or death. A nonlocking folding knife, a folding knife that is not prohibited by Section 653k, or a pocketknife is capable of ready use as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury or death only if the blade of the knife is exposed and locked into position.
(d) Knives carried in sheaths which are worn openly suspended from the waist of the wearer are not concealed within the meaning of this section.

Penal Code 12401
"Tear gas" as used in this chapter shall apply to and include all liquid, gaseous, or solid substances intended to produce temporary physical discomfort or permanent injury through being vaporized or otherwise dispersed in the air, but does not apply to, and shall not include any substance registered as an economic poison as provided in Chapter 2 (commencing with Section 12751) of Division 7 of the Agricultural Code provided that such substance is not intended to be used to produce discomfort or injury to human beings.

Penal Code 12403.7
Notwithstanding any other law, any person may purchase, possess, or use tear gas and tear gas weapons for the projection or release of tear gas if the tear gas and tear gas weapons are used solely for self-defense purposes, subject to the following requirements:
(a) No person convicted of a felony or any crime involving an assault under the laws of the United States, of the State of California, or any other state, government, or country or convicted of misuse of tear gas under subdivision (g) shall purchase, possess, or use tear gas or tear gas weapons.
(b) No person who is addicted to any narcotic drug shall purchase, possess, or use tear gas or tear gas weapons.
(c) No person shall sell or furnish any tear gas or tear gas weapon to a minor.
(d) No person who is a minor shall purchase, possess, or use tear gas or tear gas weapons.
(e)(1) No person shall purchase, possess, or use any tear gas weapon that expels a projectile, or that expels the tear gas by any method other than an aerosol spray, or that contains more than 2.5 ounces net weight of aerosol spray.
(2) Every tear gas container and tear gas weapon that may be lawfully purchased, possessed, and used pursuant to this section shall have a label that states: "WARNING: The use of this substance or device for any purpose other than self defense is a crime under the law. The contents are dangerous--use with care."
(3) After January 1, 1984, every tear gas container and tear gas weapon that may be lawfully purchased, possessed, and used pursuant to this section shall have a label that discloses the date on which the useful life of the tear gas weapon expires.
(4) Every tear gas container and tear gas weapon that may be lawfully purchased pursuant to this section shall be accompanied at the time of purchase by printed instructions for use.

Henry Hill
09-26-2009, 6:05 PM
For self-defense use aganist people, the chemical spray can not be more than 2.5oz. It can be carried concealed or openly.

If the knife has a fixed blade, then it must be open carried in a sheath.
Folding knives can be carried concealed, as long as they are folded. If the folding knife is open, then it must be open carried in a sheath.


Penal Code 12020
(a) Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison:
(4) Carries concealed upon his or her person any dirk or dagger.
(c)(24) As used in this section, a "dirk" or "dagger" means a knife or other instrument with or without a handguard that is capable of ready use as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury or death. A nonlocking folding knife, a folding knife that is not prohibited by Section 653k, or a pocketknife is capable of ready use as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury or death only if the blade of the knife is exposed and locked into position.
(d) Knives carried in sheaths which are worn openly suspended from the waist of the wearer are not concealed within the meaning of this section.

Penal Code 12401
"Tear gas" as used in this chapter shall apply to and include all liquid, gaseous, or solid substances intended to produce temporary physical discomfort or permanent injury through being vaporized or otherwise dispersed in the air, but does not apply to, and shall not include any substance registered as an economic poison as provided in Chapter 2 (commencing with Section 12751) of Division 7 of the Agricultural Code provided that such substance is not intended to be used to produce discomfort or injury to human beings.

Penal Code 12403.7
Notwithstanding any other law, any person may purchase, possess, or use tear gas and tear gas weapons for the projection or release of tear gas if the tear gas and tear gas weapons are used solely for self-defense purposes, subject to the following requirements:
(a) No person convicted of a felony or any crime involving an assault under the laws of the United States, of the State of California, or any other state, government, or country or convicted of misuse of tear gas under subdivision (g) shall purchase, possess, or use tear gas or tear gas weapons.
(b) No person who is addicted to any narcotic drug shall purchase, possess, or use tear gas or tear gas weapons.
(c) No person shall sell or furnish any tear gas or tear gas weapon to a minor.
(d) No person who is a minor shall purchase, possess, or use tear gas or tear gas weapons.
(e)(1) No person shall purchase, possess, or use any tear gas weapon that expels a projectile, or that expels the tear gas by any method other than an aerosol spray, or that contains more than 2.5 ounces net weight of aerosol spray.
(2) Every tear gas container and tear gas weapon that may be lawfully purchased, possessed, and used pursuant to this section shall have a label that states: "WARNING: The use of this substance or device for any purpose other than self defense is a crime under the law. The contents are dangerous--use with care."
(3) After January 1, 1984, every tear gas container and tear gas weapon that may be lawfully purchased, possessed, and used pursuant to this section shall have a label that discloses the date on which the useful life of the tear gas weapon expires.
(4) Every tear gas container and tear gas weapon that may be lawfully purchased pursuant to this section shall be accompanied at the time of purchase by printed instructions for use.


Hold up, a folding knife can be carried concealed? I.E in pocket? I have always been under the impression that these knives must be carried openly, such as on a belt...

Henry Hill
09-26-2009, 6:13 PM
So your telling me I can carry this in my pocket ?

http://www.upitall.com/Public/Pictures/CIMG3564.jpg

Phireglass
09-26-2009, 6:31 PM
YES! i work in a retail store where we carry knives, swords, and mace products, there is no CA pc code that states anything about length just the fact that if the blade is fixed it MUST be visible and on your belt ( i dont think you can conceal em in care either) all folding knives as far as CA laws go can be concealed in your pocket. BUT what these sneaky ****s have done is put in county measures for knife control including length limits and in LA theres areas where simple possession of a knife can get you in trouble (due to high crime rates in the areas) so just be aware of your county laws

GrizzlyGuy
09-26-2009, 7:42 PM
Here is the letter or bulletin, I saved a copy of it:

Oopsie, the LA memo got this wrong:

"Within 1,500 feet of a public or private school (grades K-12) (626.9 PC). (Note: Specific exceptions exist for residences, and for the transportation of firearms within containers.)"

The distance in 626.9 is actually 1000 feet, not 1500 feet:

"School zone" means an area in, or on the grounds of, a public
or private school providing instruction in kindergarten or grades 1
to 12, inclusive, or within a distance of 1,000 feet from the
grounds of the public or private school."

http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/626.9.html

Henry Hill
09-26-2009, 7:52 PM
Anywhere I can find the county restrictions for San Jose, CA? ( Santa Clara County ). I have been under the impression my entire life that carrying a folding knife in your pocket was illegal.

Quiet
09-26-2009, 8:41 PM
Check your county/city ordinances.
It may vary depending on where you are.

But, statewide, as long as it's closed, you can carry a folding knife concealed.

CA law prohibits the conceal carry of a dagger/dirk.
A folding knife with the blade open, meets the definition of a dagger/dirk.
A folding knife with the blade closed, does not meet the definition of a dagger/dirk.
Therefore, as long as it is closed, you can conceal carry a folding knife.


Penal Code 12020
(a) Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison:
(4) Carries concealed upon his or her person any dirk or dagger.
(c)(24) As used in this section, a "dirk" or "dagger" means a knife or other instrument with or without a handguard that is capable of ready use as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury or death. A nonlocking folding knife, a folding knife that is not prohibited by Section 653k, or a pocketknife is capable of ready use as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury or death only if the blade of the knife is exposed and locked into position.
(d) Knives carried in sheaths which are worn openly suspended from the waist of the wearer are not concealed within the meaning of this section.

Penal Code 653k
Every person who possesses in the passenger's or driver's area of any motor vehicle in any public place or place open to the
public, carries upon his or her person, and every person who sells, offers for sale, exposes for sale, loans, transfers, or gives to any other person a switchblade knife having a blade two or more inches in length is guilty of a misdemeanor.

For the purposes of this section, "switchblade knife" means a knife having the appearance of a pocketknife and includes a
spring-blade knife, snap-blade knife, gravity knife or any other similar type knife, the blade or blades of which are two or more inches in length and which can be released automatically by a flick of a button, pressure on the handle, flip of the wrist or other mechanical device, or is released by the weight of the blade or by any type of mechanism whatsoever. "Switchblade knife" does not include a knife that opens with one hand utilizing thumb pressure applied solely to the blade of the knife or a thumb stud attached to the blade, provided that the knife has a detent or other mechanism that provides resistance that must be overcome in opening the blade, or that biases the blade back toward its closed position.

For purposes of this section, "passenger's or driver's area" means that part of a motor vehicle which is designed to carry the driver and passengers, including any interior compartment or space therein.

Purple K
09-26-2009, 9:01 PM
State and National Parks are a no no for open carry, State and National Forests and Wilderness areas are O.K. BLM land is generally O.K. too.

MudCamper
09-26-2009, 9:12 PM
Let me add some clarity to this necropost.

Here is the letter or bulletin, I saved a copy of it:

There are 9 known LE OC memos. You can find links to all of them here: http://www.californiaopencarry.org/ as well as lots of OC legal information.

Hold up, a folding knife can be carried concealed? I.E in pocket? I have always been under the impression that these knives must be carried openly, such as on a belt...

Jim March wrote a really good review of the state of knife law in CA. I recommend reading it: http://www.ninehundred.com/~equalccw/knifelaw.html

State and National Parks are a no no for open carry, State and National Forests and Wilderness areas are O.K. BLM land is generally O.K. too.

National Parks will be no different than National Forests after late February 2010. For this and everything else you want to know about carry in public lands see the thread Firearms in Forests and Parks (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=186457).

SJgunguy24
09-26-2009, 9:17 PM
Anywhere I can find the county restrictions for San Jose, CA? ( Santa Clara County ). I have been under the impression my entire life that carrying a folding knife in your pocket was illegal.

It sure is if your a felon, have been convicted of a violent crime, have court orders that bar you from possesion of weapons, or a minor. There's more there but i'm not getting into details.

If you carry a folder leave it in your pocket.
Now as far as hiking in the hills/mountians? I take the tools I deem necessary to defend myself and my family from attacks of the 4 legged and 2 legged type.
Don't print, don't be stupid, and your best tool in any situation is your head.

Henry Hill
09-26-2009, 10:23 PM
Jim March wrote a really good review of the state of knife law in CA. I recommend reading it: http://www.ninehundred.com/~equalccw/knifelaw.html


Thank you that was a very informative read! I will finally be able to be relaxed walking around with my knife in my pocket!

What I'm unsure about is that I can keep my blade in my pocket, but can I bring it on school grounds, within school grounds, in my pocket while in my car driving, or in my glove compartment/other area of my car? Knife I am referring to is the one I posted earlier.

In that link they only really refer to the legality of bringing a 'switchblade' on school grounds or in vehicles, etc. Is it legal for me to carry my knife concealed in my pocket in the aforementioned situations/areas?

NotEnoughGuns
09-26-2009, 11:10 PM
How often does a law abiding citizen get searched by an LEO?

just sayin.

Henry Hill
09-27-2009, 1:49 AM
How often does a law abiding citizen get searched by an LEO?

just sayin.

Often.

locosway
09-27-2009, 7:58 AM
If you were able to get cell reception, and you called the moment someone attacked you... How long would it take for the police to arrive?

20 minutes?

30 minute?

What if you can't call the cops and you're beaten and rendered incapacitated. How long until another hiker finds you?

5 hours?

24 hours?

Never?

While I don't condone breaking the law, generally. Sometimes the potential consequences of not breaking the law are much much greater than breaking the law. Me, I'd never venture out into the wilderness without a firearm if I had a choice. Even if you don't run into some tard teens or bangers, there's always wild animals which could just as easily ruin your day.

RobG
09-27-2009, 8:54 AM
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u155/RobG5538/necropost.jpg

Last weekend I OC'd my SP101 on some NF trails up in Truckee. Ran across the usual hippee/yuppie types and a Scout troop and no one gave me a second look. I positioned it on my belt behind my camera case so as not to completely stick out.

cineski
09-27-2009, 10:19 AM
On the knife front, if you're out hiking around, carry a big fixed blade knife on your backpack. Just attach the sheath to one of the chest straps. It's very easy access if you actually are unlucky enough to be attacked, and if you encounter any **** people, chances are the sight of a 7" knife will keep them away from you.

Capt. Speirs
09-27-2009, 2:02 PM
I keep My M-9 upside down on my left front chest strap, looks very intimidating.

LiquidFlorian
09-27-2009, 4:26 PM
So to recap...

National and State Forests: Good to go
BLM Land: Good to go
Open Space preserves, county parks, wildlife preserves: No go


Did I get that right?

MudCamper
09-27-2009, 7:32 PM
So to recap...

National and State Forests: Good to go
BLM Land: Good to go
Open Space preserves, county parks, wildlife preserves: No go


Did I get that right?

No. There is no such thing as State Forests. State Parks, but no firearms there. I have covered all this extensively in this post: Firearms in Forests and Parks (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=186457).

devildog999
09-27-2009, 10:08 PM
Your best bet would to be call the DFG or Forest Service to find out if exactly where you want to is legal.

MudCamper
09-27-2009, 11:34 PM
Your best bet would to be call the DFG or Forest Service to find out if exactly where you want to is legal.

While it is always a good idea to do this with whatever agency may have jurisdiction in a particular area, take it with a grain of salt. You'll likely get incomplete information, and often even inaccurate information. Although it is good to find out what the local LE know and don't know, so as to ascertain how they will react if you encounter them.

Johnny Ringo
12-04-2009, 11:30 PM
Not sure if anyones familiar with it but I mountain bike in Whiting Ranch in Aliso Viejo and just started riding at night. During the day I day I see deer and rabbits all the time...and theres been numerous mtn lion attacks up there. I really want to carry a handgun but firearms are prohibited although I never see anyone patroling the park at night or anything.Anyway my question is if god forbid I was attacked and shot a mtn lion would I be in deep ****?

okimreloaded
12-05-2009, 12:23 AM
I thought about just carrying a gun with me anyways seeing as it's quite unlikely it'd ever be found. However, not wanting to even mess with that dubious scenario, I went with some cold steel pepper spray and a gerber F.A.S.T. Spring assisted knife. Now it's not as nice as a ken onion, but it makes a dreadful sound when opened.

The thing is I'm pretty sure using a knife is lethal force so if you're attacked with fists, using a knife to defend yourself is not an option without possibly being in trouble.

I saw this episode of cops where this guy was pushed and threatened on his own property by a drug addict and he (home owner) swung a shovel at him and was arrested for assault. The cops told him next time he should pick up a phone instead of a shovel. I was like, are you effing kidding me? A guy is menacing you on your own property, kicking in your windows and physically attacking you, and you're going to pick up a phone? I think not. Anyway after seeing that, I was like, yeah, pepperspray and then once he's blinded, if he doesn't stop...then the knife.

The thing about a gun though is a lot of times you just have to brandish it and the criminal changes his mind. Possibly not so likely to happen by brandishing a small pocket knife if you don't look like you've got the minerals to use it.

okimreloaded
12-05-2009, 12:29 AM
Not sure if anyones familiar with it but I mountain bike in Whiting Ranch in Aliso Viejo and just started riding at night. During the day I day I see deer and rabbits all the time...and theres been numerous mtn lion attacks up there. I really want to carry a handgun but firearms are prohibited although I never see anyone patroling the park at night or anything.Anyway my question is if god forbid I was attacked and shot a mtn lion would I be in deep ****?

Bro you just shoot, shovel, and shut up.

Johnny Ringo
12-05-2009, 9:22 AM
Bro you just shoot, shovel, and shut up.

Thanks okrim, what about the part where everybody within a mile radius hears a gunshot?

Quiet
12-05-2009, 12:24 PM
I really want to carry a handgun but firearms are prohibited although I never see anyone patroling the park at night or anything. Anyway my question is if god forbid I was attacked and shot a mtn lion would I be in deep ****?
IMO...
In order to be legal, carry the handgun unloaded and in a locked container.
When in fear for your life/serious bodily injury, unlock the container and load the handgun. Call 911.
If you or others are attacked, shoot until the threat is stopped.
When LEOs arrive, expect to be arrested.
The DAs and lawyers will determine if you were in immediate danger [PC 12031(j)(1)] and acted in self-defense [F&GC 4800(c)].


Penal Code 12031
(a)(1) A person is guilty of carrying a loaded firearm when he or she carries a loaded firearm on his or her person or in a vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an incorporated city or in any public place or on any public street in a prohibited area of unincorporated territory.
(j)(1) Nothing in this section is intended to preclude the carrying of any loaded firearm, under circumstances where it would otherwise be lawful, by a person who reasonably believes that the person or property of himself or herself or of another is in immediate, grave danger and that the carrying of the weapon is necessary for the preservation of that person or property. As used in this subdivision, "immediate" means the brief interval before and after the local law enforcement agency, when reasonably possible, has been notified of the danger and before the arrival of its assistance.

Fish & Game Code 4800
(a) The mountain lion (genus Felis) is a specially protected mammal under the laws of this state.
(b) It is unlawful to take, injure, possess, transport, import, or sell any mountain lion or any part or product thereof, except as specifically provided in this chapter or in Chapter 2 (commencing with Section 2116) of Division 3. This chapter does not prohibit the sale or possession of any mountain lion or any part or product thereof, when the owner can demonstrate that the mountain lion, or part or product thereof, was in the person's possession on June 6, 1990.
(c) Any violation of this section is a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than one year, or a fine of not more than ten thousand dollars ($10,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment. An individual is not guilty of a violation of this section if it is demonstrated that, in taking or injuring a mountain lion, the individual was acting in self-defense or in defense of others.
(d) Section 219 does not apply to this chapter. Neither the commission nor the department shall adopt any regulation that conflicts with or supersedes any of the provisions of this chapter.

Californio
12-05-2009, 1:50 PM
Mountain Lion will have your arse at night, you are prey to them and they have night vision/stealth you don't, does not matter if you have a pistol or not, you will most likely loose. Consider daylight hours only, odds will be in your favor not the Lions. You step into his world, you have to play by his rules.

We had to kill a lion on a horseback trip when I was a kid. He was on a rock above the picket line ready to have a horse sandwich. Double barrel shotgun ended his reign.

packnrat
12-05-2009, 3:07 PM
Some designated Wilderness areas can be hunted in also, so check the web and find out. Then get a hunting license for 30$ and carry a rifle when you go out.

there is also a provision to having a fishing permit, it allows a conceld pistol while going, doing, returning from fishing.

just have a pole and tackle. fish not needed.

.

bigstick61
12-05-2009, 6:09 PM
What would be the laws for county wilderness parks like the Walnut Creek one in the San Dimas area (LACO)? All I know is that it is unincorporated. I've run into transients down there and also spotted a mountain lion; there are also places with graffitti, so tagger/gangbangers definitely head down there at times. I'm pretty sure carry is prohibited in neighboring Bonelli Park.

Swatguy10_15
12-05-2009, 6:36 PM
Bro you just shoot, shovel, and shut up.

Good job on moronic answer of the month. If you can clearly articulate that you feared for your and/or anothers safety you still may get popped for possession but not for killing the animal.
Secondly the California Penal Code means nada in the national forest as its considered federal jurisdiction,thus you have to play by fed rules. Youre best plan of action is to contact the ranger station that has jurisdiction over the forest where you intend to hike and ask. Also noting that if youre hiking during the day youre pretty safe..Well minus the 2 legged "animals"..Do a little research about the area on the internet..See if theres been alot of bad activity there..Busted marijuana grows and such..If there is you might want to find another place to hike :)

MudCamper
12-05-2009, 6:54 PM
Since this 2 year old necropost won't die, I'll use this opportunity to pimp the Firearms in Forests and Parks (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=186457) thread. This topic is covered in great detail in that thread.

Johnny Ringo
12-05-2009, 7:44 PM
Thanks quiet, californio and swatguy! I recently started biking at night because its my only free time. I grew up in New Mexico and im sure you all know about the gun laws there... anyway the place I ride in OC has had numerous lion attacks and ill be the first to admit that i get scared riding by myself. I grew up with guns so I wouldnt be an idiot with it but I would carry it loaded on a hip holster but I dont think Im faster then a lion:D

Californio
12-05-2009, 8:47 PM
Thanks quiet, californio and swatguy! I recently started biking at night because its my only free time. I grew up in New Mexico and im sure you all know about the gun laws there... anyway the place I ride in OC has had numerous lion attacks and ill be the first to admit that i get scared riding by myself. I grew up with guns so I wouldnt be an idiot with it but I would carry it loaded on a hip holster but I dont think Im faster then a lion:D

Johnny the problem will be you will be riding, decompressing from the rat race and he is going to be hunting you, that picture of the girl down in San Juan Cap. in 2004 sticks in my mind. Mountain Lions don't play fair. I always carry in the wildlands, on foot or horseback, but riding a bike, I bet your situational awareness will not give you enough reaction time needed.:) Stay Safe.

Johnny Ringo
12-05-2009, 9:03 PM
I couldnt agree more Cal... I figure by the time i know that Im being attacked ill already be on the ground dead haha. I really appreciate the advice, I love the outdoors so I guess Ill take my chances:)

El Gato
12-05-2009, 9:22 PM
"Find better places to hike. If hooligans hike there, it's probably not that great of a hike.

You won't find any hooligans here..."


Ummmm yep... found 'em...way back yonder....and if I hadn't been carrying a glock...might not have turned out so good...marijuana grows are more and more in my fav places to hike/hunt...

Ron-Solo
12-05-2009, 9:42 PM
What would be the laws for county wilderness parks like the Walnut Creek one in the San Dimas area (LACO)? All I know is that it is unincorporated. I've run into transients down there and also spotted a mountain lion; there are also places with graffitti, so tagger/gangbangers definitely head down there at times. I'm pretty sure carry is prohibited in neighboring Bonelli Park.

It's in the City of San Dimas and carry is prohibited.

Quiet
12-05-2009, 10:15 PM
there is also a provision to having a fishing permit, it allows a conceld pistol while going, doing, returning from fishing.

just have a pole and tackle. fish not needed.

.

While transporting to and from your fishing location, the handgun can be concealed but needs to be unloaded. When you get to your fishing location, you can load it.

Penal Code 12027
Section 12025 does not apply to, or affect, any of the following:
(g) Licensed hunters or fishermen carrying pistols, revolvers, or other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person while engaged in hunting or fishing, or transporting those firearms unloaded when going to or returning from the hunting or fishing expedition.

GuyW
12-06-2009, 12:48 PM
...but I dont think Im faster then ......

I'm your huckleberry - that's just my game...

.

hawk81
12-06-2009, 12:53 PM
It's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. I would have a gun on me regardless.

Johnny Ringo
12-06-2009, 2:53 PM
I'm your huckleberry - that's just my game...

.

Your no daisy

Johnny Ringo
12-06-2009, 2:54 PM
It's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. I would have a gun on me regardless.

good point guy... Im def gonna give it some thought

dnpeters
03-12-2010, 1:42 PM
My situation is similar to the author of this thread. Would it be legal to carry a handgun in a small locked case in my backpack? I realize this would make it somewhat inaccessible, but I can move pretty fast in a crisis. I'd appreciate your thoughts. - Dave

bigiron
10-16-2010, 11:58 PM
Prohibited methods of carry

ANYTHING which conceals the handgun is prohibited (except locked container to/from car/range/etc**)
ANY other method of carry except in a visible belt holster.

Is there a referenceable statutory requirement for a *belt* holster?

I ask because I like those Gunmate Guide Chest Holsters (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=185423) for easy use with a backpack--the weapon is still perfectly visible.

Seesm
10-17-2010, 1:11 AM
I always was confused so I think the CCW is the way to go so no worries or hassles... Our gun laws confuse more than anything.

bigred
05-07-2012, 2:02 PM
sorry to bump an old thread but can someone confirm if anything has changed in regard to this?

there are so many conflicting opinions on this within the thread.

I hike almost full time... 3-5 days a week all over Southern California. Mostly Malibu/Santa Monica/Calabasas/Thousand Oaks/Altadena/Angeles Forest etc. So a ton of varying classifications in terms of what the land is.

I just saw an episode of "I survived" regarding a guy who got attacked by a Mountain Lion and almost died (I've seen a mountain lion before on a hike and was scared ****less, all I had was my 4inch Recon knife).

Many of my hikes have no cell phone reception and are 8+ miles into the middle of nowhere.

I've never run into LEO on the trail, ever.

IF it is illegal, I'm curious what the worst penalty could be if I was caught with it, and also the best way to carry?

I'm not incredibly psyched about the idea of having it on my waist because many of my trails include some bouldering/rock climbing and I carry a large camelbak pack anyway.. would much prefer to find a way to have it on the pack within reaching distance. The ultimate would be to have it mounted on say the left side of pack with clip on the right side so i could potentially use both hands and have it locked loaded and aimed within 2 seconds.

I'd also prefer it to be as stealth as possible because realistically I'm not a fan of all the looks I will certainly get when people see me walking by strapped.

for the record this is the pack I have right now... I can reach both of those side pockets that are under the strap very quickly while the pack is on my back.

http://bac-e.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/5e06319eda06f020e43594a9c230972d/S/1/S12_Fourteener_TotEclp_50.jpg

Thanks for any help guys.

FamilyofShooters
05-07-2012, 2:20 PM
I always carry when in the back country of San Diego and Imperial Counties. I have seen many illegals over the years passing through the desert and mountains and they have definitely become more brazen over the last few years. I am usually with my wife and a couple of our grand daughters and grand son. If we're out on the trail or at a camp site, who's going to protect them if we were confronted by a couple of knuckleheads? Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. Oh BTW, my wife always carries her cute little Sig P238 with her as well.

Supertac916
05-07-2012, 3:53 PM
Are there any rules or regulations against CCW permit holders carrying, while hiking in National or State parks? I'm pretty certain my permit is valid in State parks, but was wondering about National parks.

By the way, I've been carrying for 10 years and have never been stopped by a LEO regarding carrying a gun. I don't think any of them give me a second look because I don't look like the hooligan type. I don't encourage people to break the law, but as some others said in this thread. I'd rather be tried by 12, than carried by 6 or have to watch my girlfriend or wife be raped in front of me.

Have any of you been terry stopped or frisked on a hiking or camping trip? I'm just curious to see how often happens. My guess is that it doesn't happen often and for those who were stopped were probably with their guy friends. A young couple or family with children are probably rarely stopped for weapons. That's just my guess though..

bigred
05-07-2012, 3:55 PM
Are there any rules or regulations against CCW permit holders carrying, while hiking in National or State parks? I'm pretty certain my permit is valid in State parks, but was wondering about National parks.


nobody in cali has ccw for the most part so that question doesnt really apply.

MudCamper
05-07-2012, 4:10 PM
BigRed, the laws have changed since this thread was created.

The Firearms in Forests and Parks (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=186457) thread gets continuously updated.

Supertac916
05-07-2012, 4:41 PM
BigRed, the laws have changed since this thread was created.

The Firearms in Forests and Parks (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=186457) thread gets continuously updated.

Thanks Mudcamper, I'll check out your thread..

watsonville
05-08-2012, 1:15 PM
You can always prison pocket a mouse gun not suggested but it's an idea

ubet
05-08-2012, 1:46 PM
nobody in cali has ccw for the most part so that question doesnt really apply.

Well thats :fud:. I have one, as do a lot of other people on here.

bigred
05-08-2012, 3:51 PM
Well thats :fud:. I have one, as do a lot of other people on here.

when I did my initial research on this months ago, on this forum, every single thread and post i read said that the odds of landing a ccw in cali are extremely extremely slim and not even worth applying for.. there were certain counties up north that are a LITTLE more lenient but im in LA county. Tell me I'll be able to get a ccw here and ill do whatever is necessary lol

MudCamper
05-08-2012, 4:26 PM
Well thats :fud:. I have one, as do a lot of other people on here.

Not fud. Truth for most of us. Most of the population of California cannot get an LTC. If you live in a county with a reasonable Sheriff, then you can. But again, that is a minority of the State's population.

ubet
05-08-2012, 8:50 PM
Not fud. Truth for most of us. Most of the population of California cannot get an LTC. If you live in a county with a reasonable Sheriff, then you can. But again, that is a minority of the State's population.

You are correct, but to say its impossible is exaggerated. I know a lot of people with a ccw. Hell look at all the people in Sac, Tulare, Fresno, Modoc, Glenn, Mariposa, OC, plus however many more that have ccws.

Besides, most of the counties that dont issue should be thrown off into the ocean to never be heard from again :chris:

amtz.zero
05-09-2012, 12:01 AM
Your no daisy

^^Ha, he wins, cause even his user name is Johnny Ringo. ^^:D

mbaerg
05-09-2012, 2:40 AM
If someone hasn't answered this then here it is: If you are in a national park it is ILLEGAL to carry a firearm. If you are in a national forest it is LEGAL to carry a firearm. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Teeko
06-24-2014, 8:48 PM
Has anything changed during the recent years??
I go hiking around Lyttle Creek, South California. I believe its a hunting area but their is also alot of campers and visitors which makes me believe its a park as well?