PDA

View Full Version : Doing my part - Antioch PD & Legal AR builds


Ironchef
01-17-2008, 9:15 AM
Well I had my long awaited "ride-along" last night with Antioch PD. I submitted my request in July, my wife submitted hers in October. They got a hold of her a couple weeks ago to plan her ride, they lost my form so I was added. She went last week and I last night.

I went prepared with plenty of questions..chief among them to investigate the awareness of legal/illegal AR builds. I had an excellent young man as my host for the evening. He has a 5 year career with the department and over 500 arrests in that time. A very enjoyable ride along it was. After building decent rapport, enjoying a somewhat calm night for Antioch, a few hours into the ride I made my "attack." Ok, it wasn't really an attack or assault...but a simple question...

[me] Soooo.. do you run into many assault weapons? Like ARs and AKs?
[z6] Sure, now and then.
[me] Do you find or know about the legal and illegal configurations on them?
[z6] (something along the lines of 'it usually comes down to the type of magazine they have for it)
[silence for a few seconds for me to formulate education without being a condescending know it all ***]
[me] Yeah, you know I had the privilege to shoot one last weekend and I've done some studying up on the laws pertaining to AR configuration and I was surprised to find out some interesting things about them...
[z6] Oh yeah?
[me] Yeah. I learned that an AR, for example, can only have a detachable magazine, 10 rounds or less of course, if it doesn't have a pistol grip, a collapsable stock, or a flash suppressor. If it has a fixed magazine, or one that locks into place and is only removable with a tool, and not your finger, then it can have the pistol grip, flash hider, and collapsible stock.


I told him the PC and CCRs pertaining to those laws and he hadn't even read 12276. He said he'd have to study up and complimented my on my AW knowledge.

I'll be mailing him the latest copy of Redhorse's incredible flowchart with the suggestion he post a copy in the locker room or distribute among his friends and the chief.

It felt good doing a good service to him and his department, even if they don't pay attention to the chart. At least one cop now knows to apply a little more scrutiny towards assault rifles..even though the ones he will likely come across will be completely illegal and sitting next to a big stash of meth.

He remarked that when he comes across things like that, he just whips out his PC book and starts studying so he knows what to charge with. I told him it's pretty complicated and he should start with 12276. Hopefully he'll fold up his flow chart in that section of his book.

And in realizing and better appreciating our law men and women, which I already did but do more now having ridden along in my own city, I don't expect cops to know those laws and I don't think they should make it a priority unless of course they are always running into caches of assault type weapons and have plenty of precedent of misidentification. There is simply too much for them to know. Like one LEO said in that CHP OLL thread, the PC book is enormous, complicated, and it's not expected for them to know it in and out...let alone the intricate handful of code we Calgunners know. Sure if each LEO scoured this sight for a week, they'd be up to speed..but as it is, Calguns.net is not required studying for most LEOs I imagine. So it's up to us to spread the information and clear up the DOJ fouling.

Soldier415
01-17-2008, 9:23 AM
Good to hear he was receptive to the information. I have a ride along scheduled with my Squad Leader, who is CHP, as well as my local PD and I was planning an informative discussion (hopefully) along the lines you had.

It starts with educating just one, then they tell their buddies, etc.

MotoGuy
01-17-2008, 10:12 AM
[me] Yeah. I learned that an AR, for example, can only have a detachable magazine, 10 rounds or less of course, if it doesn't have a pistol grip, a collapsable stock, or a flash suppressor.

What makes you think you have to use a 10 round mag in a featureless build?

soopafly
01-17-2008, 10:41 AM
[me] Yeah. I learned that an AR, for example, can only have a detachable magazine, 10 rounds or less of course, if it doesn't have a pistol grip, a collapsable stock, or a flash suppressor.
It is legal to use any and all lawfully owned large capacity magazines on a featureless rifle. Example: if you owned a Beta C Mag(100rd capacity) before Jan 1, 2000, it may be used on a featureless off list AR. Lawfully owning large capacity mags is a motivation for guys to build featureless rifles–it allows them to actually use the large cap mags they own.

Ironchef
01-17-2008, 10:42 AM
Maybe because I haven't read that here yet or seen any high cap mags on OLLs on this sight. Cool.

soopafly
01-17-2008, 10:45 AM
Maybe because I haven't read that here yet or seen any high cap mags on OLLs on this sight. Cool.
You haven't looked through the entire 7.62 and .223 galleries have you?;)
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=32973
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=26726

Ironchef
01-17-2008, 10:49 AM
I have. Didn't study each picture to see if it was a 10/30, 10/20 or otherwise pinned mag or not.

In context of my conversation with this cop, this is not important since someone with hi-cap mags will hopefully have registered his weapon..if not..then the seizure is going to happen. With new rifles, I'm good with what I said, or am I not?

soopafly
01-17-2008, 10:52 AM
In context of my conversation with this cop, this is not important since someone with hi-cap mags will hopefully have registered his weapon..if not..then the seizure is going to happen. With new rifles, I'm good with what I said, or am I not?
I don't understand where you're getting this from. Lawfully owning large cap mags DOES NOT compell you to register anything.

Ironchef
01-17-2008, 10:56 AM
Maybe you can just spend the time educating me since I'm an obvious idiot and didn't do anything right in my ride along? :)

soopafly
01-17-2008, 10:59 AM
Maybe you can just spend the time educating me since I'm an obvious idiot and didn't do anything right in my ride along? :)
C'mon, man I never said you were an idiot. Everything in your conversation with the cop is fine...except you seem to be unclear about CA's large cap mag restrictions.

Hunter
01-17-2008, 10:59 AM
Maybe you can just spend the time educating me since I'm an obvious idiot and didn't do anything right in my ride along? :)

If the semi-auto OLL has a "fixed" magazine it can only be 10 rnds or less. If the gun uses detachable magazines, those magazines can be any capacity one wants to use. 1 rnd, 5 rnd, 20rnd, 75 rnd, 100 rnd..ect.... There are no laws prohibiting their use in such guns.

soopafly
01-17-2008, 11:02 AM
Yeah, what Hunter said. Thanks Hunter.:)

soopafly
01-17-2008, 11:04 AM
BTW Ironchef, thank you for doing your part to help educate LEOs.:)

Ironchef
01-17-2008, 11:05 AM
Sorry, just got pissed because I had the two of you disecting things I said that don't matter. That's why I said my context didn't matter because the dude will not have remembered anything that I said, except the general notion that there is legal and illegal AR builds. The chart I'll send him will be what matters.


If the semi-auto OLL has a "fixed" magazine it can only be 10 rnds or less. If the gun uses detachable magazines, those magazines can be any capacity one wants to use. 1 rnd, 5 rnd, 20rnd, 75 rnd, 100 rnd..ect.... There are no laws prohibiting their use in such guns.

And on the side note, thanks for further educating me on the mags. I only remember having read that you can't put more than 10 rds in a rifle or handgun. I'm just a calguns noob still.

sierratangofoxtrotunion
01-17-2008, 4:56 PM
Quiet? In Antioch? That's cause you went on a Wednesday. Tomorrow (Friday) around 2 pm, turn your scanner to 154.845 Mhz. I will bet $5 that in the following 12 hours, there will be a shooting. Last time I was at Regal a fight started RIGHT IN FRONT of a cop about 10 feet away. Time before that, a kid was shot & killed in the parking lot, and one of the perps ran right past me. But yeah, other than Friday and Saturday, Antioch is indeed quiet.

BTW, what area of Antioch did you cover?

Pthfndr
01-17-2008, 7:12 PM
congrats for doing something positive to inform the LE world.

762cavalier
01-17-2008, 8:31 PM
Thanks for your good work.That is probably the only way we will get LE up to speed. One officer at a time;)

The other guys weren't trying to dissect what you did, just trying to help you get up to speed on the magazine issues.:D

Nuuze
01-18-2008, 4:09 PM
Good work Ironchef! I heard of some bad things in Antioch but didn't know it was that bad. Wow! And it's not even warmer outside yet. :eek:

Ironchef
01-18-2008, 5:12 PM
Quiet? In Antioch? That's cause you went on a Wednesday. Tomorrow (Friday) around 2 pm, turn your scanner to 154.845 Mhz. I will bet $5 that in the following 12 hours, there will be a shooting. Last time I was at Regal a fight started RIGHT IN FRONT of a cop about 10 feet away. Time before that, a kid was shot & killed in the parking lot, and one of the perps ran right past me. But yeah, other than Friday and Saturday, Antioch is indeed quiet.

BTW, what area of Antioch did you cover?

Funny you should say...

Yesterday, on the way home from a late night at work (11:30pm), I turned on my radio and scanned the usual agencies, my amateur stations and repeaters, and low and behold I hear the calcord give an eta to the location...at the high school, in the parking lot..."please identify a landing location"..etc, etc. I bet to myself the helo was headed to Antioch..and I was right. As I crested highway 4 in pittsburg i saw the helo (reach helo from trauma center/john muir hospital) pass over me going towards Antioch high as suspected. As I approached Antioch, I saw it off in the distance lowering beyond view..I went to the high school to see the carnage (that's what my wife and I do) **EDIT** and there was a stretcher waiting for a shooting victim right by my house (http://cbs5.com/local/antioch.shooting.suspect.2.632999.html). It's sad that they're "looking" for the shooter since they know who the shooter is..the guy shot was obviously running from the house on the corner of spanos and mahogany where deals are made all day and all night...where the blue jeans and black hoodies congregate every night..where a double murder happened right before we moved into that area...friggen duh...ok, i need to chill...

ANyway, that was all in beat 3...where I live...where I requested to go last night..but because of the dumb late night at work, I had to reschedule to the wednesday night instead..and I got stuck in a beat that is normally hot too (the whole southeast section of antioch which covers deer valley, hillcrest and lone tree)..but was lame. They were serving warrants in beat 3 all that night and we got to do a code 3 cover by the high school/fair grounds to try and catch any escapees...no luck.

yeah...they cancelled ride alongs on weekends for obvious reasons...no fun.

sierratangofoxtrotunion
01-18-2008, 8:42 PM
Funny you should say...

Yesterday, on the way home from a late night at work (11:30pm), I turned on my radio and scanned the usual agencies, my amateur stations and repeaters, and low and behold I hear the calcord give an eta to the location...at the high school, in the parking lot..."please identify a landing location"..etc, etc. I bet to myself the helo was headed to Antioch..and I was right. As I crested highway 4 in pittsburg i saw the helo (reach helo from trauma center/john muir hospital) pass over me going towards Antioch high as suspected. As I approached Antioch, I saw it off in the distance lowering beyond view..I went to the high school to see the carnage (that's what my wife and I do) **EDIT** and there was a stretcher waiting for a shooting victim right by my house (http://cbs5.com/local/antioch.shooting.suspect.2.632999.html). It's sad that they're "looking" for the shooter since they know who the shooter is..the guy shot was obviously running from the house on the corner of spanos and mahogany where deals are made all day and all night...where the blue jeans and black hoodies congregate every night..where a double murder happened right before we moved into that area...friggen duh...ok, i need to chill...

ANyway, that was all in beat 3...where I live...where I requested to go last night..but because of the dumb late night at work, I had to reschedule to the wednesday night instead..and I got stuck in a beat that is normally hot too (the whole southeast section of antioch which covers deer valley, hillcrest and lone tree)..but was lame. They were serving warrants in beat 3 all that night and we got to do a code 3 cover by the high school/fair grounds to try and catch any escapees...no luck.

yeah...they cancelled ride alongs on weekends for obvious reasons...no fun.

I said Friday afternoon because Cloverfield came out tonight. That adds a lot of teenagers and young adults to the Regal neighborhood. It seems to be a pretty active combination. But it's not even 9 yet, the night is still young!