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View Full Version : "Russia has fewer guns, but more murders". From NPR, no less


nick
09-23-2013, 10:46 AM
http://www.npr.org/blogs/parallels/2013/09/19/224043848/the-u-s-has-more-guns-but-russia-has-more-murders

According to , Russians have far fewer guns than Americans — and far more homicides.

There are fewer than 13 million firearms in circulation in Russia, compared with an estimated 300 million in the United States. That works out to about 9 guns per 100 people in Russia and closed to 100 guns per 100 people in America.

The most recent for Russia show that there were 21,603 killings in 2009.

According to the FBI, the United States had 13,636 homicides in 2009 with a population that is more than twice as large. More than 80 percent of those killings were gun-related.

It's difficult to make a direct comparison of gun homicides in the two countries because Russia doesn't break down its murder statistics.

Whiterabbit
09-23-2013, 11:06 AM
Every case you want, you have. Lots of guns, lots of violence? Israel. Lots of guns, no violence? Switzerland. No guns, lots of violence? South Africa, maybe (frankly, London, these days. sheesh). Fewer guns, less violence? Australia, I've been told.

Goes to show you that guns are NOT related to crime. Culture is.

a1c
09-23-2013, 11:22 AM
They're picking up on that Harvard study that was recently published.

And Whiterabbit nailed it - it's all about culture. I'd add that socio-economic conditions are also key. Not a lot of crime in U.S. rural, prosperous areas where everyone has guns. Lots of crime however in places where poverty is the norm.

Sakiri
09-23-2013, 12:16 PM
Russia was forcefully disarmed too, a few times in their history.

The revolution, then the Bolsheviks, and since then.

nick
09-23-2013, 12:40 PM
Every case you want, you have. Lots of guns, lots of violence? Israel. Lots of guns, no violence? Switzerland. No guns, lots of violence? South Africa, maybe (frankly, London, these days. sheesh). Fewer guns, less violence? Australia, I've been told.

Goes to show you that guns are NOT related to crime. Culture is.

That's very true. The point is that we understand it, but most antis prefer not to. So it's nice when an article on NPR, of all places, points that out.

jrock
09-23-2013, 12:59 PM
Pretty sure the swiss have guns...but, I believe their ammo must be stored in a gov controlled location(national defense vs private)

According to the Geneva-based Small Arms Survey, there are about 89 civilian-owned guns for every 100 people who live in the United States. Switzerland ranks third in terms of gun ownership,the Survey estimates, with 3.4 million guns among its population of nearly eight million.

nick
09-23-2013, 7:09 PM
Pretty sure the swiss have guns...but, I believe their ammo must be stored in a gov controlled location(national defense vs private)

According to the Geneva-based Small Arms Survey, there are about 89 civilian-owned guns for every 100 people who live in the United States. Switzerland ranks third in terms of gun ownership,the Survey estimates, with 3.4 million guns among its population of nearly eight million.

For the government guns, they get guns AND ammo. The ammo is sealed and cannot be used, but they're free to use the guns. Plus, they can have the personal guns, and they don't have our NFA-induced fear of full auto and short weapons.

C.G.
09-23-2013, 9:11 PM
I am sure that the Russian Mafia is a good part of those figures.

formerTexan
09-24-2013, 11:09 AM
lol, the only reason NPR went with this is to defend the current administration from Russian pols tweaking them (and us) with tweets ;)
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/09/23/unlikely-source-comes-to-the-defense-of-gun-owners-after-russian-officials-criticize-u-s-over-gun-laws/

APV
09-24-2013, 11:32 AM
in the old ussr career criminals were often preferring knives over firearms . street violance is very high in rusian industrial cities with a wide variety of cold weapons used. lots of gang members train in martial arts to fight on streets. this is a good example why disarming law abiding citizens only makes criminals feel more confident.

MontClaire
09-24-2013, 11:36 AM
Russians are just plain crazy people. They kill mostly with bare hands than anything else. I don't think it's indicative of the trend but give them all firearms and it's population will shrink rapidly.

APV
09-24-2013, 11:57 AM
Russians are just plain crazy people. They kill mostly with bare hands than anything else. I don't think it's indicative of the trend but give them all firearms and it's population will shrink rapidly.

before the revolution there were very few firearms restrictions in russia. confiscation and prohibiting firearms were the very first steps of the bolsheviks(changed to communist later) goverment after they won the civil war.

wolfwood
09-25-2013, 4:55 PM
in the old ussr career criminals were often preferring knives over firearms . street violance is very high in rusian industrial cities with a wide variety of cold weapons used. lots of gang members train in martial arts to fight on streets. this is a good example why disarming law abiding citizens only makes criminals feel more confident.

This is very true most Sambo clubs in Moscow double as a hangout for organized crime. Very tough guys. I'm getting a buddy ready for the international Pankration tournament there and have been reviewing tape. Most of the RUssian guys in his bracket have tattoos right out of Eastern Promises. I have a few friends over there via grappling and they have indicated this to me as well.

Epaphroditus
09-26-2013, 3:42 PM
Statistics from Russia are pretty squishy as best. Wouldn't use them to make any kind of an argument except one against using estimates as proxy for real data.

Nevertheless always watch your 6 when there are Russians about.

NightOwl
09-28-2013, 1:22 PM
Every case you want, you have. Lots of guns, lots of violence? Israel. Lots of guns, no violence? Switzerland. No guns, lots of violence? South Africa, maybe (frankly, London, these days. sheesh). Fewer guns, less violence? Australia, I've been told.

Goes to show you that guns are NOT related to crime. Culture is.

No. Australia has had a significant increase in violent crime since they implemented their gun ban.

"Australia and America both experienced similar decreases in murder rates: Between 1995 and 2007, Australia saw a 31.9% decrease; without a gun ban, America’s rate dropped 31.7%.

Now for the rest of the story

During the same time period, all other violent crime indices increased in Australia: assault rose 49.2% and robbery 6.2%. Sexual assault–Australia’s equivalent term for rape–increased 29.9%. Overall, Australia’s violent crime rate rose 42.2%. At the same time, U.S. violent crime decreased 31.8%: rape dropped 19.2%; robbery decreased 33.2%; aggravated assault dropped 32.2%. Australian women are now raped over three times as often as American women (whom ABC reports are arming themselves at record rates because of safety concerns): More women, from soccer moms to professionals like the ones at the Blue Ridge Arsenal gun range in Chantilly, Va., are packing heat for sport, self-empowerment and protection. "
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2225517/posts

So, fewer guns, more violence. Go ahead and make your argument that taking guns out of the equation makes no bearing again.

Oh, and (frankly, London, these days. sheesh). Go take a peek at England's violent crime rates from before and after they enacted their gun ban. I'll give you a hint: the violent crime rates went up. Aww shucks, I'll go one or two further than that.
* Gun-free England not such a utopia after all. According to the BBC News, handgun crime in the United Kingdom rose by 40% in the two years after it passed its draconian gun ban in 1997.(18) And according to a United Nations study, British citizens are more likely to become a victim of crime than are people in the United States. The 2000 report shows that the crime rate in England is higher than the crime rates of 16 other industrialized nations, including the United States.(19) http://voices.yahoo.com/the-uk-gun-ban-3819560.html

Though there's plenty more on that subject out there. The undeniable fact is that the guns were removed from both of those countries, and their violent crime rates went up.

Sakiri
09-28-2013, 7:39 PM
before the revolution there were very few firearms restrictions in russia. confiscation and prohibiting firearms were the very first steps of the bolsheviks(changed to communist later) goverment after they won the civil war.

One of the Grand Duchesses(I want to say it was Tatiana or Olga but I can't remember) used to carry a pistol in her boot that her father, Tsar Nikolai gave her.

When the family was taken prisoner, the Bolsheviks guarding them asked her for it and she willingly gave it up.

The entire family was shot to death in the basement of a house later. Then the Bolsheviks took over, disarmed most of the country, and screwed Russia royally.

When THEY are telling us to pull our heads out of the sand, you *know* there's a problem.

http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/28-12-2012/123335-americans_guns-0/