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Centurion_D
01-16-2008, 7:00 PM
What's the law concerning loaded hi-cap magazines with a registered AW during transportation. Did a search but I wasn't sure. Can I have loaded mags stuffed in the same case w/ my reg'd AW? The rifle case I use in one of those discreet makes so the mag pouches are located inside the case instead of outside.

Army
01-17-2008, 1:06 AM
Legal. If you are squeamish at all, then simply put the loaded mags in a seperate container ( I do, makes it easier to get the rifle out of the case, lighter too).

MudCamper
01-17-2008, 1:25 AM
There are no restrictions on transporting ammo or magazines in the PC. There is a lot of myth and misinformation about it, but no law. You can carry ammo and loaded mags in the same container as your firearms. Of course, your registered AW must be transported in a locked case.

BaronW
01-17-2008, 2:36 AM
You can carry ammo and loaded mags in the same container as your firearms.

What about handguns?

-hanko
01-17-2008, 2:08 PM
What about handguns?
It's the same.

-hanko

Soldier415
01-17-2008, 2:12 PM
There are no restrictions on transporting ammo or magazines in the PC. There is a lot of myth and misinformation about it, but no law. You can carry ammo and loaded mags in the same container as your firearms. Of course, your registered AW must be transported in a locked case.

According to my local PD, you cannot carry loaded mags in the same locked container as the weapon.

They consider that loaded because they say it can be easily and quickly loaded into the weapon.

:mad:

Jicko
01-17-2008, 2:14 PM
According to my local PD, you cannot carry loaded mags in the same locked container as the weapon.

They consider that loaded because they say it can be easily and quickly loaded into the weapon.

:mad:

Probably again one of those things that may get you troubles and maybe arrested, but then, the DA won't file a charge.....

Soldier415
01-17-2008, 2:16 PM
Probably again one of those things that may get you troubles and maybe arrested, but then, the DA won't file a charge.....

Yes, but i'd rather not have an arrest on my record.

MudCamper
01-17-2008, 2:20 PM
According to my local PD, you cannot carry loaded mags in the same locked container as the weapon.

They consider that loaded because they say it can be easily and quickly loaded into the weapon.


They are flat out wrong. More illiterate cops spreading FUD.

They consider that loaded? Their opinion is not law. They need to actually read 12031! And then People vs. Clark. Idiots.

What PC would they charge you with when they arrest you?

Soldier415
01-17-2008, 2:22 PM
They are flat out wrong. More illiterate cops spreading FUD.

They consider that loaded? Their opinion is not law. They need to actually read 12031! And then People vs. Clark. Idiots.

I know. 12031 is the PC section that describes what is considered a loaded weapon right?

I need to carry a printout of that with me, as I drive to and from work at a gun store with loaded mags in the car.

Jicko
01-17-2008, 2:23 PM
10125 (a)(1)(A)CA Penal Code (CPC) Both the pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person and the unexpended ammunition capable of being discharged from that firearm are either in the immediate possession of the person or readily accessible to that person, or the pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person is loaded as defined in subdivision (g) of Section 12031.


12031 (g) A firearm shall be deemed to be loaded for the purposes of
this section when there is an unexpended cartridge or shell,
consisting of a case that holds a charge of powder and a bullet or
shot, in, or attached in any manner to, the firearm, including, but
not limited to, in the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof
attached to the firearm; except that a muzzle-loader firearm shall be
deemed to be loaded when it is capped or primed and has a powder
charge and ball or shot in the barrel or cylinder.

The loaded magazine needs to be "attached" to the firearm to violate 12031(g). The magazine itself is NOT a firearm.

The same thing as.... you have a spare separated barrel(hence a firing chamber), and a round in that chamber, you do not have a loaded firearm. The barrel itself is NOT a firearm.

Bishop
01-17-2008, 2:24 PM
I've heard plenty of stories about cops, and FROM cops.

My handgun's locked container will never have mags inside it.

MudCamper
01-17-2008, 2:25 PM
I need to carry a printout of that with me, as I drive to and from work at a gun store with loaded mags in the car.

See my sig (the carry flyer).

MudCamper
01-17-2008, 2:27 PM
I've heard plenty of stories about cops, and FROM cops.

My handgun's locked container will never have mags inside it.

That's the same kind of logic as when people say, "Just let them search your car! If you're not breaking the law, why not submit?" Because it's your right. I ALWAYS carry the ammo in the same container as my handguns.

Soldier415
01-17-2008, 2:28 PM
the unexpended ammunition capable of being discharged from that firearm are either in the immediate possession of the person or readily accessible to that person, or the pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person is loaded as defined in subdivision (g) of Section 12031.

See, that part right there looks like it cancels out the 12031 as it says in immediate possession or readily accessible

Bishop
01-17-2008, 2:35 PM
That's the same kind of logic as when people say, "Just let them search your car! If you're not breaking the law, why not submit?" Because it's your right. I ALWAYS carry the ammo in the same container as my handguns.

That's not the reason I keep them separate, and I always refuse searches.

Unfortunately (and due to the litigious nature of our society) sometimes cops feel justified in bending the rules in order to arrest or detain someone who they feel is a bad person. Maybe the magazine was next to the gun when you put it there, but it was in the gun when it came out of your trunk. I can understand their frustration, but I'm not a bad guy, and I don't want to be detained or arrested so they can check me out or take a gun away from someone they feel shouldn't have it.

As I said;
I've heard plenty of stories about cops, and FROM cops.
My handgun's locked container will never have mags inside it.

MODS: Some people don't like to hear this stuff, if this post is inappropriate here, please nuke it and accept my apologies. I'll take the hint and not talk about this stuff again.

MudCamper
01-17-2008, 2:40 PM
See, that part right there looks like it cancels out the 12031 as it says in immediate possession or readily accessible

First, it's 12025, not 10125. Second, that is not a definition. It is under 12025, under penalties. It is stating that if you are convivted of 12025, then if you are also carrying ammunition, that you can be penalized more severely. You're totally confusing the issue. FUD.

MudCamper
01-17-2008, 2:41 PM
Unfortunately (and due to the litigious nature of our society) sometimes cops feel justified in bending the rules in order to arrest or detain someone who they feel is a bad person. Maybe the magazine was next to the gun when you put it there, but it was in the gun when it came out of your trunk. I can understand their frustration, but I'm not a bad guy, and I don't want to be detained or arrested so they can check me out or take a gun away from someone they feel shouldn't have it.

So cops can just arrest us if they feel like it? They don't have to have evidence of an actual crime? No, I don't think so. This is just getting silly.

Bishop
01-17-2008, 2:42 PM
See my sig (the carry flyer).

Good flyer! I'm printing up three now! :chris:

Bishop
01-17-2008, 2:46 PM
No, I don't think so.

E pur si muove :(

pnkssbtz
01-17-2008, 3:12 PM
So cops can just arrest us if they feel like it? They don't have to have evidence of an actual crime? No, I don't think so. This is just getting silly.
Actually, Yes.

They can arrest you for anything they want so long as they believe they are acting in good faith in accordance with what they believe to be the law.

MudCamper
01-17-2008, 3:41 PM
Actually, Yes.

They can arrest you for anything they want so long as they believe they are acting in good faith in accordance with what they believe to be the law.

Well, in response to that, I offer this:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=67660&highlight=court+liable+arrest

http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/ca9/newopinions.nsf/391D9C193A5A61448825734500594DFC/$file/0515522.pdf?openelement

Sure, they can, but they are not imune to the civil suit that will result.

DedEye
01-17-2008, 4:10 PM
What if you have the loaded magazine in one of those carriers that fits into the magwell and holds the loaded mag parallel to the rifle/magwell? Since 12031 says that it applies to magazines attached to the firearm, would that be a no go, even though the weapon can't be fired in that configuration?

Jicko
01-17-2008, 4:26 PM
What if you have the loaded magazine in one of those carriers that fits into the magwell and holds the loaded mag parallel to the rifle/magwell? Since 12031 says that it applies to magazines attached to the firearm, would that be a no go, even though the weapon can't be fired in that configuration?

NO GO....

I don't think the definition includes "the weapon can't be fired".

The definition includes "attachment" tho, so, a magazine with rounds AND it is attached to the firearms, will be a "loaded firearm", whether you can fire it or not. (ie. loaded magazine in the mag well, but without a round in the firing chamber, is still a loaded firearm)

MudCamper
01-17-2008, 4:39 PM
Actually, this is almost exactly what People v Clark was about. He had shotgun shells in the shell carrier attached to the shotgun's buttstock. And the court ruled that that was NOT loaded. They further clarified that in order to be loaded a firearm must have ammunition "placed into a position from which it can be fired". So according to the Court rulling, DedEye's example would be legal. However, I'm sure that in that case the cops are going to arrest you anyway, and a DA might even get a conviction. Yeah, you'd win on appeal, tens of thousands of dollars later.

This particular detail has been debated ad nausium in this forum, and I document it in the flyer in my sig...

Jicko
01-17-2008, 4:44 PM
Actually, this is almost exactly what People v Clark was about. He had shotgun shells in the shell carrier attached to the shotgun's buttstock. And the court ruled that that was NOT loaded. They further clarified that in order to be loaded a firearm must have ammunition "placed into a position from which it can be fired". So according to the Court rulling, DedEye's example would be legal. However, I'm sure that in that case the cops are going to arrest you anyway, and a DA might even get a conviction. Yeah, you'd win on appeal, tens of thousands of dollars later.

This particular detail has been debated ad nausium in this forum, and I document it in the flyer in my sig...

That's my take on that too.... so.... IMHO.... NO GO.... lol

MudCamper
01-17-2008, 4:58 PM
That's my take on that too.... so.... IMHO.... NO GO.... lol

Well, "no go" in that you choose not to do it. I also, on this single point, choose not to do it. It is however perfectly legal to do. The Court specifically clarified what "loaded" and "attached" mean. The problem is, 99.9% of cops either won't know this, or won't care and think they know better than the courts anyway.

hoffmang
01-17-2008, 5:21 PM
Soldier,

Please print out and mail People v. Clark (http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/People-v-Clark-(1996).pdf) to your local LEA. They are flat wrong. If you've put them on notice and they arrest you they will be significantly exposed to liability in a way that the the usual "simple mistake" situation gives them immunity.

-Gene

pnkssbtz
01-17-2008, 5:27 PM
Well, in response to that, I offer this:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=67660&highlight=court+liable+arrest

http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/ca9/newopinions.nsf/391D9C193A5A61448825734500594DFC/$file/0515522.pdf?openelement

Sure, they can, but they are not imune to the civil suit that will result.Of course they will be up sh*t creek without a paddle, if you sue them civilly for their actions.

Otherwise, they get to do whatever they want, with a "get out of jail free" card. Meanwhile, unless you have money to burn, you can't do anything in return.

artherd
01-18-2008, 12:50 PM
According to my local PD, you cannot carry loaded mags in the same locked container as the weapon.

They consider that loaded because they say it can be easily and quickly loaded into the weapon.

:mad:

Your local PD needs to be *served* with a copy of People V Clark. Then they can no longer claim ignorance, and will be exposed to liability should they knowingly arrest you.