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BJames
09-19-2013, 9:01 AM
While I figure out how I feel about Starbucks "new" stance on guns in their stores, I will choose to exercise my rights to shop elsewhere. Went for a walk this morning with my wife and dog and got a coffee somewhere else - even though it was a little less convenient.

http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/h324/bradenglish/photo_zpsf65423e5.jpg (http://s1104.photobucket.com/user/bradenglish/media/photo_zpsf65423e5.jpg.html)

jonc
09-19-2013, 9:08 AM
While I figure out how I feel about Starbucks "new" stance on guns in their stores, I will choose to exercise my rights to shop elsewhere. Went for a walk this morning with my wife and dog and got a coffee somewhere else - even though it was a little less convenient.

http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/h324/bradenglish/photo_zpsf65423e5.jpg (http://s1104.photobucket.com/user/bradenglish/media/photo_zpsf65423e5.jpg.html)

coFFEE!!!!!!

fr33domfightr
09-19-2013, 9:11 AM
Buy coffee from another shop to foster competition, then go use Starbucks Wifi... :D

hermosabeach
09-19-2013, 9:12 AM
I think you are missing the point... they are still one of the biggest gun neutral / gun supporting companies....

The Douche Bags who open carry, film the police response, get arrogant with the cops all while the STARBUCKS logo is the background is the problem....

you will find HUNDREDS of open carry stops on your tube of the Open Carry Police interaction videos....

Open carry folks in CA could have all become instructors and taught Boy Scouts or Women how to shoot a firearm... but they chose to walk up and down the beach and such....

the result was turning the public against guns.... not building confidence and comfort around firearms....

BJames
09-19-2013, 9:23 AM
I think you are missing the point... they are still one of the biggest gun neutral / gun supporting companies....

The Douche Bags who open carry, film the police response, get arrogant with the cops all while the STARBUCKS logo is the background is the problem....

you will find HUNDREDS of open carry stops on your tube of the Open Carry Police interaction videos....

Open carry folks in CA could have all become instructors and taught Boy Scouts or Women how to shoot a firearm... but they chose to walk up and down the beach and such....

the result was turning the public against guns.... not building confidence and comfort around firearms....

This is why I said, "while I figure out how I feel" about what Starbucks just did. I meant this to continue the conversation. I do understand what you are saying.

Though, I also feel like they just politicized the issue. They didn't say, we have no policy, or opinion on guns in our stores. Right?

omgwtfbbq
09-19-2013, 9:25 AM
I think you are missing the point... they are still one of the biggest gun neutral / gun supporting companies....

The Douche Bags who open carry, film the police response, get arrogant with the cops all while the STARBUCKS logo is the background is the problem....

you will find HUNDREDS of open carry stops on your tube of the Open Carry Police interaction videos....

the result was turning the public against guns.... not building confidence and comfort around firearms....

Indeed. A ton of people have been saying things like "The don't want your guys in their stores!" or "They don't want your business!". That really has nothing to do with it.

The company doesn't want the media attention associated with the people who choose starbucks store to make a political statement. It's private property, the owner can regulate what happens there/how it happens there at will.

LMTluvr
09-19-2013, 9:28 AM
I think you are missing the point... they are still one of the biggest gun neutral / gun supporting companies....

The Douche Bags who open carry, film the police response, get arrogant with the cops all while the STARBUCKS logo is the background is the problem....

you will find HUNDREDS of open carry stops on your tube of the Open Carry Police interaction videos....

Open carry folks in CA could have all become instructors and taught Boy Scouts or Women how to shoot a firearm... but they chose to walk up and down the beach and such....

the result was turning the public against guns.... not building confidence and comfort around firearms....

THIS!
I think he made it clear all along he just wanted to mantain in a neutral stance. "Stay out of it" more or less. But people couldn't just accept that and essentially forced his hand.
Forcing your opinion, whether pro or anti is not going to help your cause.

USMC VET
09-19-2013, 9:33 AM
While I figure out how I feel about Starbucks "new" stance on guns in their stores, I will choose to exercise my rights to shop elsewhere. Went for a walk this morning with my wife and dog and got a coffee somewhere else - even though it was a little less convenient.

http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/h324/bradenglish/photo_zpsf65423e5.jpg (http://s1104.photobucket.com/user/bradenglish/media/photo_zpsf65423e5.jpg.html)

Careful with this bro, my wife works for the company in your hand and while I support people putting food on my table that company in your hand is worse than starbucks as far as anti 2A.

What I took from the Starbucks statement was it is not a "gun free zone" they just don't want open carry (not defending them just saying) and they said they will not deny or ask people with firearms to leave.

Take it or leave just thought I'd throw it out there.

artoaster
09-19-2013, 9:33 AM
If you carry concealed it doesn't matter where you go except federal buildings and state and county courthouse and other government properties.

That's why it's called "concealed".

BJames
09-19-2013, 9:41 AM
I am just looking at this issue. It's a tough one. They cleverly put out a statement that appears to walk the line. However, I think what happened is that they choose to make sure the Anti-Gun community didn't get upset and start boycotting them. That's smart. There's a lot of them, and when they choose to go after you, they have the full force of the media behind them.

I just don't know if their statement was that neutral. They didn't say nothing. They didn't say, we want to notify the public that Starbucks has no stance on this issue. They didn't say that a person's right to carry a gun is up to the local laws that have been put in place. Right? They requested that people no longer carry guns in their stores.

What if people still do? What's next? I think the next step is a ban. They may just be hoping the issue goes away with this soft ban/request. Again, this is smart, but is it neutral?

Great comments and thoughts above!

Again, I didn't call for a ban myself. I thought a provocative picture may spur some good conversation. And, so far, it has! It's helpful to hear what everyone has to say - on either side of this.

BJames
09-19-2013, 9:55 AM
Careful with this bro, my wife works for the company in your hand and while I support people putting food on my table that company in your hand is worse than starbucks as far as anti 2A.

What I took from the Starbucks statement was it is not a "gun free zone" they just don't want open carry (not defending them just saying) and they said they will not deny or ask people with firearms to leave.

Take it or leave just thought I'd throw it out there.

By the way, I didn't mean this as an endorsement. I meant it as a demonstration that we have a choice.

omgwtfbbq
09-19-2013, 9:57 AM
I am just looking at this issue. It's a tough one. They cleverly put out a statement that appears to walk the line. However, I think what happened is that they choose to make sure the Anti-Gun community didn't get upset and start boycotting them. That's smart. There's a lot of them, and when they choose to go after you, they have the full force of the media behind them.

I just don't know if their statement was that neutral. They didn't say nothing. They didn't say, we want to notify the public that Starbucks has no stance on this issue. They didn't say that a person's right to carry a gun is up to the local laws that have been put in place. Right? They requested that people no longer carry guns in their stores.

What if people still do? What's next? I think the next step is a ban. They may just be hoping the issue goes away with this soft ban/request. Again, this is smart, but is it neutral?

Actually in the press release the CEO stated "We are not pro or anti gun". This one of the very few issues that Starbucks has ever been neutral on. The company is a very vocal and progressively minded organization. They have a noted pro gay-marriage and pro choice opinion. The fact that they aren't taking a stance either way on guns other than stating they don't want open carry demonstrations in their stores is probably the least partisan thing they've done lately.

USMC VET
09-19-2013, 9:59 AM
By the way, I didn't mean this as an endorsement. I meant it as a demonstration that we have a choice.

Oh I didn't think you did, I was just putting it out there. Their stance is out there so it was merely an informative post.

12yak
09-19-2013, 10:02 AM
I've been going to Starbucks for years and have essentially built up a family habit of ~$200 per month. Everyone knows me at my local store because they see me every morning.

Today, I cashed out my Gold Card and told them to keep it, that I wouldn't need it anymore. When asked Why?, I told the store manager whom I know very well that the "Starbuck's CEO waded into the gun rights issue and in effect did the equivalent of putting a "Whites Only" sign on their front door. I know it's not really the equivalent because it's not quite that exclusionary... maybe it's conceptually more like installing separate fountains for "White, Male and Heterosexual Only" and "Others".

In very simple terms, the CEO of Starbucks made a decision that was designed to create the least impact on shareholder value. He's concerned that the lunatic fringe on both sides will drive away all customers, regardless of beliefs. He's "respectfully asking" us to use a separate fountain. Even though I don't OC or CC (because here I San Diego it's gotten to the point where I couldn't even if I wanted to), I thought it was important to take a stand on this issue because the next step for Starbucks will be to prohibit carry everywhere. If we sit silent while our rights are slowly being chipped away, the end result will still be the same. I'm not going to support bad behavior and fund them while they do that.

I'll miss my morning Starbucks but I'd miss my guns even more.

LHC30
09-19-2013, 10:09 AM
My opinion is that Starbucks IS pro-2A in that they didn't slam the (proverbial) door on lawfully carried firearms at their establishments. It appears to me they support existing laws (because they are in the coffee business, not the legislative buis.) and do NOT want to be placed in the middle of a political issue.
As was said above, certain 2A and anti-2A folks have forced them into this and they want to be left alone to sell coffee..

hermosabeach
09-19-2013, 10:29 AM
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=825657&highlight=starbucks

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=824975&highlight=starbucks

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=825664&highlight=starbucks
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=825232&highlight=starbucks
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=825232&highlight=starbucks
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=825197&highlight=starbucks
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=825272&highlight=starbucks
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=825105&highlight=starbucks

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=825097&highlight=starbucks
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=811554&highlight=starbucks
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=825226&highlight=starbucks
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=825078&highlight=starbucks
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=824980&highlight=starbucks

I think you are missing the point... Starbucks are still one of the biggest gun neutral / gun supporting companies....

The Douche Bags who open carry, film the police response, get arrogant with the cops all while the STARBUCKS logo is the background is the problem....

You will find HUNDREDS of open carry stops on your tube of the Open Carry Police interaction videos.... Filmed with Starbucks as the backdrop

Open carry folks in CA could have all become instructors and taught Boy Scouts, new shooters and Women how to shoot a firearm... but they chose to walk up and down the beach and such....

the result was turning the public against guns.... not building confidence and comfort around firearms....

Can we stop with all of the Starbucks Threads???????????

BJames
09-19-2013, 10:39 AM
Can we stop with all of the Starbucks Threads???????????[/QUOTE]

Why? Do we need more room for AR vs Mini 14 threads?!! Haha

Obviously, it's not so cut and dry and people want to hash it out - which is a good thing.

malfunction
09-19-2013, 10:49 AM
While Peet's Coffee & Tea respects and values all individuals' rights under local, state and federal laws, our policy within our stores is not to allow customers carrying firearms unless they are uniformed or identified law enforcement officers. Like many other private businesses, particularly retail establishments, we believe this policy is in the best interests of all of our customers and employees.
So you'd rather sit in here instead? They have a worse RKBA policy by far (after all they are from Berkeley).

doctor_vals
09-19-2013, 10:51 AM
While I figure out how I feel about Starbucks "new" stance on guns in their stores, I will choose to exercise my rights to shop elsewhere. Went for a walk this morning with my wife and dog and got a coffee somewhere else - even though it was a little less convenient.

http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/h324/bradenglish/photo_zpsf65423e5.jpg (http://s1104.photobucket.com/user/bradenglish/media/photo_zpsf65423e5.jpg.html)

Are you sure?
Not driving.... :rolleyes:

BJames
09-19-2013, 10:52 AM
So you'd rather sit in here instead? They have a worse RKBA policy by far (after all they are from Berkeley).

I didn't know that. As I said above, I took the picture to demonstrate that we too have the ability and right to make a decision about which stores to support. When I go for my next coffee, I'll choose another option again. Thanks for the heads up on Pete's.

BJames
09-19-2013, 11:06 AM
Can we stop with all of the Starbucks Threads???????????

Here's a video of the CEO talking. Watch the whole thing for sure. Note the question and answer at about 1:50 - 2:20, when she points out that in his letter he points out that "he wants to give responsible gun owners a chance to respect the request". She then actually does some reporting and follows up and asks him what if they do not honor this request.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7W1m6x1onpM&feature=player_embedded

He pauses and says "I think this decision stands on it's own merit today..." The piece is then edited and moves on to another question.

So my question is what is their response if people don't comply with their request? Do you (all of you) think that Starbucks will say "Ok, we are ok with you carrying your guns we didn't mean to get involved. Please just follow the law. We wish to remain truly neutral?" Or, will they move to an official company ban?

I still don't know, but I feel like what they just did was a soft ban that asks us to please not make them really ban guns.

Anyway, I just think this is a tricky one, which is why I posted the photo.

Thanks again for the responses. It helps to hear other peoples opinions.

I think I'll make my coffee at home tomorrow. I don't want to get caught drinking and driving and photographing another cup of coffee from another company that may be even worse than Starbucks again!

Bustercat
09-19-2013, 11:19 AM
screw all these chains. shop local and support the up and comers, and the places with a little more character.

Blue Danube Alameda and Kefa Coffee in Oakland :)

razorduc
09-19-2013, 11:51 AM
Anybody try open carry at other chains or independent shops? Are they more pro-2A than Starbucks?

NoJoke
09-19-2013, 1:33 PM
My daughter and I went there almost daily as our morning drop off to high school routine - that is now NO MORE.

I did find some decent ice mocha mix in the fridge section of Costco - makes enough for a ton of cups of ice coffee and the cost of the whole double half gallon thing is pennies compared to our extremely overpriced Starbucks bill.

Starbucks - YOU LOSE with your decision. Actually, Starbucks, we ALL lose. Nice play. :facepalm:

bodger
09-19-2013, 1:51 PM
I stopped going to these expensive coffee joints years ago anyway. I can make coffee at home for a month for the same money I was spending at Peet's and Starbucks in an average week. I invested in a good thermos and left these joints behind.

I'd rather spend my money on ammo.

Becq
09-19-2013, 2:05 PM
Seems to me that as long as gun owners were simply politely exercising their rights, Starbucks had no problem with that. Which is how we want other businesses to behave.

Then gun owners started shoving their rights down the throats of Starbucks customers -- not doing anything illegal, mind you, but acting in a way that was intentionally designed to turn the store into a circus and focus the attention of everyone in the area on the fact that THEY were carrying. In other words, they behaved like children. With the inevitable result that Starbucks asked them to be respectful. They didn't say they'd ban open-carry, just that they didn't want any more circuses.

I guess I don't see the problem with the way Starbucks behaved. The idiots who went out of their way to spoil a good situation for other more polite and respectful gun owners are to blame.

wintersborn
09-19-2013, 2:29 PM
Starbucks can do what they want, its their property.

But since they no longer want my rights and me on their property I can no longer be a customer.

Its very clear, due to anti 2nd pressure they declared their stores "Gun Free Zones" by stating no guns are allowed other than LEO's.

Feel free to make a stand or not, we still have some freedoms left.

BJames
09-20-2013, 1:15 PM
Seems to me that as long as gun owners were simply politely exercising their rights, Starbucks had no problem with that. Which is how we want other businesses to behave.

Then gun owners started shoving their rights down the throats of Starbucks customers -- not doing anything illegal, mind you, but acting in a way that was intentionally designed to turn the store into a circus and focus the attention of everyone in the area on the fact that THEY were carrying. In other words, they behaved like children. With the inevitable result that Starbucks asked them to be respectful. They didn't say they'd ban open-carry, just that they didn't want any more circuses.

I guess I don't see the problem with the way Starbucks behaved. The idiots who went out of their way to spoil a good situation for other more polite and respectful gun owners are to blame.

Well, I do hope you are right. We'll see. I'm don't think it's an easy situation for them and respect their right to try to protect their business. We don't know if the Anti-Gun movement had threatened a big boycott and god knows they would have had the full force of the Main Stream Media behind them. So, Starbucks may have just done a dance and tried very hard to not ban weapons - which we should support. I don't know.

Time will tell if this was just step one toward a ban - hoping to deflect some political pressure away from themselves.

I see both sides of this, which is why I made my coffee at home today.

cheiftan
09-20-2013, 1:45 PM
Dutch Bros has hotter chicks too! They're my new coffee place now

seo
09-20-2013, 5:20 PM
[QUOTE=BJames;12352403]While I figure out how I feel about Starbucks "new" stance on guns in their stores, I will choose to exercise my rights to shop elsewhere. Went for a walk this morning with my wife and dog and got a coffee somewhere else - even though it was a little less convenient.

And you should have the right to decide where to shop. But why do you not support the rights of the business owner to decide who they want to serve?

LAWABIDINGCITIZEN
09-20-2013, 9:01 PM
A news item just came out where they asked McDonald's and Dunkin' Donuts what their policy was on firearms. They both replied that their only policy was that you must obey all federal, state and local laws.

That's just what it should be.

DD will be getting more of my business.


I've fallen...... and I can't reach my GLOCK !!!

Gutpile66
09-20-2013, 9:42 PM
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=825657&highlight=starbucks

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=824975&highlight=starbucks

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=825664&highlight=starbucks
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=825232&highlight=starbucks
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=825232&highlight=starbucks
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=825197&highlight=starbucks
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=825272&highlight=starbucks
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=825105&highlight=starbucks

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=825097&highlight=starbucks
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=811554&highlight=starbucks
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=825226&highlight=starbucks
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=825078&highlight=starbucks
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=824980&highlight=starbucks

I think you are missing the point... Starbucks are still one of the biggest gun neutral / gun supporting companies....

The Douche Bags who open carry, film the police response, get arrogant with the cops all while the STARBUCKS logo is the background is the problem....

You will find HUNDREDS of open carry stops on your tube of the Open Carry Police interaction videos.... Filmed with Starbucks as the backdrop

Open carry folks in CA could have all become instructors and taught Boy Scouts, new shooters and Women how to shoot a firearm... but they chose to walk up and down the beach and such....

the result was turning the public against guns.... not building confidence and comfort around firearms....

Can we stop with all of the Starbucks Threads???????????

The best part of waking up is Folgers in your cup.

Trapper
09-20-2013, 9:48 PM
I will continue to drink their coffee and lawfully carry a concealed firearm at Starbucks. They are not anti gun, just anti open carry.
Most shooting ranges require firearms to be cased and unloaded, with breach flags installed on the bench. Why would you expect a coffee shop to be okay with people posing for pictures with their firearms in their business??
Would you invite a group of strangers into your home with firearms that hadn't been cleared and have the actions closed??

voiceofreason
09-21-2013, 8:27 AM
posted in comments from an article (don't remember where)


crismo99 on Sep 20, 5:30 PM said:
In an open letter from Howard Schultz to ask the public not to bring guns into Starbucks I have decided to agree to his request.
http://www.starbucks.com/blog/an-open-letter-from-howard-schultz/1268
Apparently I am a non desirable customer who has been coming to starbucks for years.
I am given Starbucks coffee cards on a regular bases from my wife who is given cards as a gift at work from co workers and from clients.
It has almost become a form of money with my fellow workers and clients as a way to say thanks!
So as of today I have given the three cards in my wallet and two additional cards I had at home totaling $78.54 to five different homeless people. Apparently Starbucks considers this portion of the population to be more desirable customers.
I will be giving every card I am given to another homeless person as I am sure they would like to get in out of the rain and enjoy a nice hot cup of coffee and a clean restroom here in Portland OR
I encourage everyone to do their part to help a homeless person feed themselves and why not at Starbucks.
They can even sit for hours out of the rain just like all the Hipsters do.
I am sure this new group of customers will help sales as they will be wanting to come back often.
I will never walk into another Starbucks as I am now an undesirable paying customer.
I will not give Starbucks cards to anyone else as there are many good coffee houses in the Portland area.

fr33domfightr
09-21-2013, 2:09 PM
posted in comments from an article (don't remember where)


crismo99 on Sep 20, 5:30 PM said:
In an open letter from Howard Schultz to ask the public not to bring guns into Starbucks I have decided to agree to his request.
http://www.starbucks.com/blog/an-open-letter-from-howard-schultz/1268
Apparently I am a non desirable customer who has been coming to starbucks for years.
I am given Starbucks coffee cards on a regular bases from my wife who is given cards as a gift at work from co workers and from clients.
It has almost become a form of money with my fellow workers and clients as a way to say thanks!
So as of today I have given the three cards in my wallet and two additional cards I had at home totaling $78.54 to five different homeless people. Apparently Starbucks considers this portion of the population to be more desirable customers.
I will be giving every card I am given to another homeless person as I am sure they would like to get in out of the rain and enjoy a nice hot cup of coffee and a clean restroom here in Portland OR
I encourage everyone to do their part to help a homeless person feed themselves and why not at Starbucks.
They can even sit for hours out of the rain just like all the Hipsters do.
I am sure this new group of customers will help sales as they will be wanting to come back often.
I will never walk into another Starbucks as I am now an undesirable paying customer.
I will not give Starbucks cards to anyone else as there are many good coffee houses in the Portland area.



LOL...you are very generous! And what a great idea to help the homeless!

;) :)