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View Full Version : It Begins (Rem700, Eliseo RTM)


milotrain
09-18-2013, 11:12 AM
I'm finally getting all the parts together for a longrange/midrange (by the NRA competition description) gun capable of also competing in tactical and XTC matches. The particulars are as follows:

Remington 700 Long action in SS with some light blueprinting by NWactionworks (Face squared, Lug abutments squared, Threads cut in line with raceway, Bolt lugs lapped, Bolt face squared​)
Eliseo RTM chassis.
Obermeyer .30 cal 5R 1:11 twist .298 bore
.30-06 from a PTG reamer print 9685

Initial glass will be a Bushnell Elite 3200 10x40, this is not the intended glass for the gun but rather glass that I have. Irons will be some sort of mashup of a Pheonix front sight PNW rear sight and whatever else I can find.

Trigger is still up in the air.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-DgL-FjPk7rY/UjnlDN-7KwI/AAAAAAAABxU/QKsMihsK35Q/w600-no/IMG_1387.JPG
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-tI5P7EFVvuo/UjeNbnmBlMI/AAAAAAAABwg/3n_BzBDdfT4/w600-no/IMG_8975.JPG
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-jcrQeCv3f7g/UjeLtvFASqI/AAAAAAAABv8/KBQiBfaIP44/w600-no/IMG_8969.JPG

russ69
09-18-2013, 1:04 PM
A brand new build in 30-06? Can you tell us why you are going with an arguably semi-obsolete target round? No interest in 6mms or 6.5mms?

thenodnarb
09-18-2013, 1:49 PM
Be prepared for your thread to be hijacked by an endless caliber debate.

NapalmCheese
09-18-2013, 1:54 PM
I want to build a tube gun.
I also wonder about your choice of .30-06 though, any particular reason?

milotrain
09-18-2013, 2:18 PM
Disclaimer: All my choices are personal, most are flawed. I'm cool with that.

Assuming you remove the "obsolete vs contemporary" side of the argument the negatives for a .30/06 that I could come up were are as follows:
1. Recoil
2. Powder cost
3. Long action (dubious con, I think it's a pro but I'll put it here)

Pros in favor of a .30/06 (and to a lesser extent .30 cal in general)
1. Plenty of speed at moderate loads to keep good ballistic bullets above mach 1.2 past 1000 yards.
2. Good barrel life
3. Fantastic selection of bullets
4. Supply logistics (more on this later)
5. Long action
6. Wealth of load data (obviously no more so than the 6BR or similar)

Addressing the cons, recoil is manageable, the barrel is around 7.5 lbs finished and the matches I shoot usually involve a sling in the prone position. A tight position makes recoil of the big .30 not that much of a big deal. I say this because in a tight position the 1903A3 is not much of a bear, and this gun should be much more docile. Powder cost is mitigated by supply logistics.

In the pro camp the ability to keep mach 1.2 past 1k with mild loads is huge, this is a primary difference between the .30/06 and the .308. While the .308 will stay above 1.2 out that far it will only do so with specific loads and specific bullets, the range in the .30/06 in this regard is greater.

The supply logistics are simple. I like keeping at least a years worth of competition supplies on my shelves, this is real money that just sits there so if those supplies also fill another role then they become essentially cheaper. I already reload for the M1 Garand and the 1903A3, and nearly anything I use for those can be used in this bolt gun. There will be heavy bullets that the RTM will run that the M1 and 03A3 won't but cases, primers, powder and short line bullets will all be the same. If I were to have built an R5 in 6BR I'd have to have dies, cases, powder (perhaps the same as I use in .223 or .30/06) and bullets to the tune of $1500 on the shelf all year. Shooting a .30/06 means that I just spend about $500 on long range bullets and I don't need to expand my inventory. That yearly cost adds up FAST.

The long action also allows this gun to run a bunch of rounds that I've always wanted to play with, and the Eliseo chassis makes swapping barrels easy. .25-06, .243, 22-250, .300 win mag are all possible future chambering of this rifle, with magazine feed in the case that I want to play with them.

Lastly, the wealth of load data due German Salazar's extensive work means that I'm not starting in the dark. There are plenty of variables in load development and I've found while shooting a WOA service rifle that having a rifle which matches not only caliber but chamber reamer print, and twist rate with other shooters vastly reduces the variables one has to solve for while building a good load. It is worth a lot of time for me, and I already have to few hours to dedicate to shooting.

While of course there are other rounds that fulfill nearly all of these factors, none seemed to fit all my requirements. While I certainly can do anything I want to do with a 6BR or .308, I don't see any reason why I can't do them with a .30/06 as well, and the few cons of using that round seem small. I've shot enough to know that with my skill level the round isn't the limiting factor.

NapalmCheese
09-18-2013, 3:45 PM
Well there you go.
I still want to build a tube gun.

milotrain
09-18-2013, 3:51 PM
I've only done a basic adjustment of the stock so far, and not mounted anything in the chassis but it is easily the most comfortable stock I've ever shouldered. It sits in offhand just beautifully and I'm a bit concerned that I won't want to shoot the service rifle once I get used to shooting the RTM.

postal
09-18-2013, 4:03 PM
NICE!!!!!!!!

What do you figure your total cost will be (after you pick a trigger and permamanent glass?)

Did you buy the action separate, or take it off a donor?

Cypriss32
09-18-2013, 4:09 PM
A brand new build in 30-06? Can you tell us why you are going with an arguably semi-obsolete target round?

Really?

Typical.. Another my 308 can do whatever your 30-06 can do. Well sorry but your really WRONG. Go search around on 6mmbr and snipershide.com.

30-06 gets awesome barrel life and can shoot 208s at 2800fps. That just plain rocks.

russ69
09-18-2013, 4:10 PM
How about a fast twist 243? Lots of 6mm bullets to choose from and tons more velocity. Bullets are cheaper and it uses less powder (same types you already use). You can keep your 308/30-06 bolt face so no harm done. A LOT LESS recoil and better down range performance.
There is nothing "wrong" with a 30-06, many high masters have used that cartridge, it was very popular in the sixties but man does it eat up powder and the big 30 caliber bullets are expensive. I'm just throwing out my opinion. You're going to have a really nice rifle no mater what caliber it's in.

milotrain
09-18-2013, 4:12 PM
I appreciate the support, but I don't think Russ was being derogatory I think he was just asking. I agree with what you are saying about the .30/06, it just plain rocks!

I do like the .243 but the hard numbers says I have to keep an additional $800 tied up in .243 components per year (or every six months if I really shoot) that I don't have to keep tied up in .30/06 components. The powder difference is pretty small, a quick perusal of .243 loads shows a spread of around 40 to 47 gr for the heavies. My basic midrange .30/06 load is 46.6gr. I buy .30 cal bullets of 155 and 168 in huge bulk so they are pretty cheap. Maybe I can find 6mm bullets for as cheap but I know I can do it with the .30, and I've got them on hand.

The .243 really seemed to be THE match round for midrange and long range a few years ago, before the 6BR craze hit. No doubt it's a fantastic round. Maybe this gun will become a .243 later. No reason it can't be both :D (and that's my favorite part!!!)

And what about .25-06? That's always been a favorite nutters round of mine. I think it'd be great for midrange/longrange matches.

Cypriss32
09-18-2013, 4:28 PM
I appreciate the support, but I don't think Russ was being derogatory I think he was just asking. I agree with what you are saying about the .30/06, it just plain rocks!

I do like the .243 but the hard numbers says I have to keep an additional $800 tied up in .243 components per year (or every six months if I really shoot) that I don't have to keep tied up in .30/06 components. The powder difference is pretty small, a quick perusal of .243 loads shows a spread of around 40 to 47 gr for the heavies. My basic midrange .30/06 load is 46.6gr. I buy .30 cal bullets of 155 and 168 in huge bulk so they are pretty cheap. Maybe I can find 6mm bullets for as cheap but I know I can do it with the .30, and I've got them on hand.

The .243 really seemed to be THE match round for midrange and long range a few years ago, before the 6BR craze hit. No doubt it's a fantastic round. Maybe this gun will become a .243 later. No reason it can't be both :D (and that's my favorite part!!!)

And what about .25-06? That's always been a favorite nutters round of mine. I think it'd be great for midrange/longrange matches.

Man you shoot LIGHT bullets. Buy yourself some H4350 and heavies. I use RL22 also with 190+. I was getting 2789 with 60.0 grs RL22 and 208gr amax.
Did you ever look into 280AI? Same price as shooting the 30-06 but you get bullets over .60bc at a higher velocity.
My old 30-06:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/adam5432002/For%20Sale/Toyos025_zpsed471150.jpg (http://s6.photobucket.com/user/adam5432002/media/For%20Sale/Toyos025_zpsed471150.jpg.html)

My new one is A LOT lighter.

russ69
09-18-2013, 4:38 PM
A brand new build in 30-06? Can you tell us why you are going with an arguably semi-obsolete target round?...
Really? Typical.. Another my 308 can do whatever your 30-06 can do. Well sorry but your really WRONG. Go search around on 6mmbr and snipershide.com. 30-06 gets awesome barrel life and can shoot 208s at 2800fps. That just plain rocks.

Oh, you are right. It just plain rocks. It rocks the earth and rattles your teeth. The 30-06 is not a bad cartridge especially with the big heavies. 308? Wut?

milotrain
09-18-2013, 5:13 PM
155s and 168s are perfect up to 300 yards. No reason to burn up lead on heavies below 300. I'm interested in the 208gr A-Max, but have heard really good things about the Berger 185 Hybrid. I could run the 210 boat tail and the Lapua 220 scenar L with a longer throat than I am currently planning but I don't know if I really care to inside of 1000 yards.

I shoot an 18lb mousegun and it's like shooting a pop gun, but the 03A3 doesn't beat me up when I'm in a hoodie and coat and slung up so I'm not concerned about the recoil of this gun. I don't plink with a t-shirt so meh.

highpower790
09-18-2013, 5:15 PM
this is worthy of a drunken fireside chat when we get to coalinga!

NorCalFocus
09-18-2013, 5:19 PM
Yeay for being different, since this isn't your first rifle.

If you were a brand new shooter I would have told how dumb you are and you should have gotten a 308 :43:

6079Winston
09-18-2013, 5:41 PM
German Salazar can't be all wrong: http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2012/05/cartridges-accuracy-secrets-of-30-06.html

Cypriss32
09-18-2013, 5:43 PM
have heard really good things about the Berger 185 Hybrid.

Yes, Ill give those a try. I figure with a good load of H4350 I can get to 2970 out of my rifle. That should make a good combo. The problem is they are 47.99 per 100, VS 30.00 for the AMAX.

milotrain
09-18-2013, 5:46 PM
Highpower790 turned me onto 80gr Amaxs for the .223 and they shoot so fracking well that I haven't even opened my boxes of Berger 82 BTHP. Another great shooter and mentor swears by the 168gr Amax. I don't have any doubt that that 208 will shoot like a house of fire.

707electrician
09-18-2013, 5:50 PM
Nice! I have a 700 that I had chambered in 6BR with a nice 28" brux barrel that I put in an Eliseo R5. It has been finished for about 8 months now and I finally got around to loading up some rounds to do some load development and finally shoot the darn thing hopefully this weekend

Cypriss32
09-18-2013, 5:55 PM
Highpower790 turned me onto 80gr Amaxs for the .223 and they shoot so fracking well that I haven't even opened my boxes of Berger 82 BTHP. Another great shooter and mentor swears by the 168gr Amax. I don't have any doubt that that 208 will shoot like a house of fire.

I shot them before, they shot well. I never got to test the rifle out past 1,000 steel. As I always shot the 7wsm, fricken tack driver no matter who shoots it.
I will try some 155s for practice loads. Im going to use varget because I have ALOT.

milotrain
09-24-2015, 2:17 PM
Ready for some ****? I finally got this thing back Tuesday night. More than two years after this started.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-xG42nZf6kd4/VgRoTCNlM7I/AAAAAAAACl0/vPl1DYCY8-w/s800-Ic42/2015-09-23%25252020.20.21.jpg

A fair bit of work remains. I need to pin the scope base after getting a load together, modify the mags for a bit easier feeding and also to run the 06, build a single shot sled, and modify the handstop for prone. I'm going to bring the rifle to Randall to time the trigger (it's a CG that currently lives on another rifle) and I'll stick an extend bolt knob on it as soon as I can get an annular cutter for cheap.

Now to start prepping some brass.

midnightreloader
09-24-2015, 3:31 PM
Ready for some ****? I finally got this thing back Tuesday night.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-xG42nZf6kd4/VgRoTCNlM7I/AAAAAAAACl0/vPl1DYCY8-w/s800-Ic42/2015-09-23%25252020.20.21.jpg

A fair bit of work remains. I need to pin the scope base after getting a load together, modify the mags for a bit easier feeding and also to run the 06, build a single shot sled, and modify the handstop for prone. I'm going to bring the rifle to Randall to time the trigger (it's a CG that currently lives on another rifle) and I'll stick an extend bolt knob on it as soon as I can get an annular cutter for cheap.

Now to start prepping some brass.

Nice rifle! I had great success with Berger 185s and IMR 4350 in my 30-06.

midnightreloader
09-24-2015, 3:31 PM
German Salazar can't be all wrong: http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2012/05/cartridges-accuracy-secrets-of-30-06.html

You beat me to it :)

milotrain
09-24-2015, 3:51 PM
Berger 185s are on the list to play with. I've had good success with boogers. Salazar was the initial inspiration for this project. :D

bridgeport
09-24-2015, 4:23 PM
Pretty snazzy there Mr. Train. 30-06, everything .308 is, and so- much- more.

milotrain
09-24-2015, 4:33 PM
Thanks Bob. This was the project that convinced me to learn to chamber my own barrels, I'm not waiting two years ever again. It's also an effort to show all our new shooting friends that they don't need "the new fancy thing" to do shoot decent scores. Now to practice enough to be worthy of her.

highpower790
09-24-2015, 5:16 PM
I hope your new toy will be available for show & tell at the Coalinga Regional.

phiberoptik
09-24-2015, 5:18 PM
Ready for some ****? I finally got this thing back Tuesday night. More than two years after this started.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-xG42nZf6kd4/VgRoTCNlM7I/AAAAAAAACl0/vPl1DYCY8-w/s800-Ic42/2015-09-23%25252020.20.21.jpg

A fair bit of work remains. I need to pin the scope base after getting a load together, modify the mags for a bit easier feeding and also to run the 06, build a single shot sled, and modify the handstop for prone. I'm going to bring the rifle to Randall to time the trigger (it's a CG that currently lives on another rifle) and I'll stick an extend bolt knob on it as soon as I can get an annular cutter for cheap.

Now to start prepping some brass.

Wow looking good!

ar15barrels
09-24-2015, 5:27 PM
Ready for some ****? I finally got this thing back Tuesday night. More than two years after this started.

I know a faster gunsmith...

Jaytil
09-24-2015, 10:36 PM
Really nice, Milo! Can't wait to see it.

Shakey
09-25-2015, 12:43 AM
Beautiful gun! Beat them fancy kids with an old-school caliber, hike up your pants, and tell them to get off your lawn. :-)

bsumoba
09-25-2015, 9:04 AM
I LIKE!!!! Too bad you don't live up in the San Jose / San Franciscio area so you can show that thing off at our local matches @ Sac Valley.

30-06...an obsolete caliber in some people's minds, is still a great round. My friend is building a hunting rifle right now and he is doing it in 30-06 because it is nostalgic for him, is MORE than capable for what you want to do, blah blah blah.

That being said, if it were me, I would have considered something like a 7 RSAUM.

Good news is...you have a chassis system (nice choice by the way) and you can always swap barrels ;)

milotrain
09-25-2015, 9:31 AM
I know a faster gunsmith...

Tell me about it. :facepalm: I'm ultimately glad I went this route because it forced me to learn a lot in the mean time but I'm going to be visiting this "faster gunsmith" from now on.

I'd love to get up to Sac, and I will eventually, gotta start the long road to Palma. Hopefully Regionals at Coalinga happens but it's likely that I'll only get there Saturday if I do get the time off. And yes, I'm looking for a good pair of spats and dialing in my "fist shakes at the sky".

bsumoba
09-25-2015, 9:54 AM
The CA State Championships are coming up Nov 5th - 8th.

http://www.crpa.org/calendar-upcoming-events/

PM me if interested and I will send you the info.

milotrain
09-25-2015, 10:03 AM
I'm on the east coast that week. :(