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Nato
09-17-2013, 8:02 PM
If a break-in were to occur in the apartment I reside in and the perpetrator were to move out into the hallway, would it still be considered private property and enough cause to engage in self-defense?

Thanks

meaty-btz
09-17-2013, 8:05 PM
You mean an interior hallway on the apartment grounds but outside your front door?

That is a fatal funnel man. Stay the hell out of them.

As for SD, if someone attacks you.. anywhere.. you can defend yourself. Pursuit is a whole nother ball of wax. But as for chasing down a perp and popping him? No, California does not protect that, in fact they like the criminal more than you, enough that he is protected legally from you shooting him in the back.

Scuba951
09-17-2013, 8:08 PM
Yeah. If he backs off, so do you. Don't let your guard down but don't chase him outside your apartment. That's when you become the criminal.

The Good Doc
09-17-2013, 8:23 PM
At my condo, the HOA considers patios to be public space. If I shot someone at my front door it would be no different than if I went to Stater Bros and did it there.

Unless they were posing imminent danger, I.E. they came into your home, got aggressive and then back up out of your home while pulling a gun on you, then I think you've got a better shot of winning the imminent court battle.

nothinghere2c
09-17-2013, 8:36 PM
anything in public hallways in apartment complexes or common areas are not in your domain of "home"

Germz
09-17-2013, 9:19 PM
always bring the confrontation inside your house/domicile. then shoot him/her until dead. then put on your latex gloves, remove your vaccuum-sealed-sterile-butterfly-knife from its wrapper and insert into perp's hand. Now you are squarely covered lmao.

A dead perp can give no credible statement, he had opportunity, intent and capability. you win by de facto...

:sarcasm:

no seriously DON'T DO THAT :shifty:

tc86bmsn
09-18-2013, 6:48 AM
i think it is said that it must be a direct/active threat. If he leaves your apartment and goes outside of you unit he is no long a threat to you

Tincon
09-18-2013, 12:14 PM
Maybe this will help (imagine Bob Marley singing):

I shot the sheriff,

but I reasonably believed that I was in imminent danger of being killed or seriously injured;
and that immediate force was necessary to prevent that danger;
and I used no more force than was necessary to defend against that danger.

But I did not shoot the deputy.

kygen
09-18-2013, 12:16 PM
Maybe this will help (imagine Bob Marley singing):

I shot the sheriff,

but I reasonably believed that I was in imminent danger of being killed or seriously injured;
and that immediate force was necessary to prevent that danger;
and I used no more force than was necessary to defend against that danger.

But I did not shoot the deputy.

can I steal this

Tincon
09-18-2013, 12:18 PM
can I steal this

Please do.

Tincon
09-18-2013, 12:28 PM
Also, if you are arrested, PLEASE remember that you should NOT be trying to explain to anyone your justification for using force. Except your lawyer, who you should be asking for immediately.

hermosabeach
09-18-2013, 12:40 PM
If you have the mindset that you are willing to protect yourself and your loved ones then I cannot recommend enough taking a class and then another that deals with proper defensive shooting, the criminal aspect and the civil aspect of the shooting.

Massad Ayoob has written a series of good books
Gabe Suarez has written a few

Lots of others out there that will help you do everything better and with awareness hopefully avoid the need to ever use deadly force.

taperxz
09-18-2013, 1:10 PM
Maybe this will help (imagine Bob Marley singing):

I shot the sheriff,

but I reasonably believed that I was in imminent danger of being killed or seriously injured;
and that immediate force was necessary to prevent that danger;
and I used no more force than was necessary to defend against that danger.

But I did not shoot the deputy.

You are still at the mercy of the County DA. for possible charges being filed.

If the OP were to happen in say "San Francisco" you may be charged as opposed to a place like "Lake County" where they believe in the right of self defense.

glockman19
09-18-2013, 1:10 PM
If a break-in were to occur in the apartment I reside in and the perpetrator were to move out into the hallway, would it still be considered private property and enough cause to engage in self-defense?

Thanks

Simple answer is NO.

If Perp is retreating into the hallway, public place, and away, retreating, you have defended yourself and your property. Incident over.

Call the Police and make a report. Be a good witness. Alert neighbors and Management. Ask for secured entry points and or security cameras.

taperxz
09-18-2013, 1:13 PM
Simple answer is NO.

If Perp is retreating into the hallway, public place, and away, retreating, you have defended yourself and your property. Incident over.

Call the Police and make a report. Be a good witness. Alert neighbors and Management. Ask for secured entry points and or security cameras.

Just because the perp moved into the hallway does not mean imminent danger has ceased.

Granted the the scenario is extremely vague in the OP. I think you would agree.

Untamed1972
09-18-2013, 1:21 PM
If a break-in were to occur in the apartment I reside in and the perpetrator were to move out into the hallway, would it still be considered private property and enough cause to engage in self-defense?

Thanks

As stated the critical issue in any use of self-defense is not location, but rather were you in reasonable fear of death or great bodily injury. It's just that CA law presumes you have a sufficiency fear when someone is inside your home. Outside the burden of proving sufficiency of fear shifts back to you.

So if the person was in your home, but retreated when confronted then you can't really claim you were in fear at that point. Now if the person is retreating to the door and into the hallway but is shooting at you as they do, you would still meet the reasonable fear standard to shoot back.

Ultimately everything will always be judged on a totality of circumstances basis.

Nato
09-18-2013, 4:08 PM
Ultimately everything will always be judged on a totality of circumstances basis.

I appreciate everyones .02 on this. I live at the end of a long hallway and I'm the manager of the building. The units are extremely small hence the reason why I'd expect a confrontation in the hallway if something were to occur.

Obviously, it would be unfortunate to stand by and let something happen. Yet at the same time it is difficult to determine how to plan in an event that something should happen.

Its hard to say if it would be better to investigate with no weapon, or with something easier to conceal, or the m4 and tactical light on the perpetrators face, ready to go.

Completely circumstantial and different depending on what's going down and of course, it's essential to take ballistics into consideration as bullet penetration could have grave consequences to others around.

At this stage, I'm thinking its not worth considering a firearm as a good form of protection, especially living in California.

LMTluvr
09-18-2013, 4:42 PM
I appreciate everyones .02 on this. I live at the end of a long hallway and I'm the manager of the building. The units are extremely small hence the reason why I'd expect a confrontation in the hallway if something were to occur.

Obviously, it would be unfortunate to stand by and let something happen. Yet at the same time it is difficult to determine how to plan in an event that something should happen.

Its hard to say if it would be better to investigate with no weapon, or with something easier to conceal, or the m4 and tactical light on the perpetrators face, ready to go.

Completely circumstantial and different depending on what's going down and of course, it's essential to take ballistics into consideration as bullet penetration could have grave consequences to others around.

At this stage, I'm thinking its not worth considering a firearm as a good form of protection, especially living in California.

I live in California as well and think a firearm is a great as well as vital form of protection. Although some may argue circumstances, courts etc just remember the critical "factors" if you will for justifiable use of deadly force.
An imminent threat of great bodily injury or death.

No escape or reasonable perception of escape/evasion. If you think you can run/evade/avoid confrontation then by all means bug out. But if you're trapped or for whatever reason feel trapped then you react accordingly.
As far as hallways and such my rule of thumb is simple. Outside a door or window or LEAVING out a door/window the threats over.
If you can articulate the above then in theory you have more or less met the "standard" for justifiable use of deadly force.
Although some will argue this and argue that, the California court system and rabidly anti-DA's but the truth of it is ill take my chances with the court system
Versus depending upon the emergency medical services system.
Prison probably sucks, especially for protecting yourself. But death sucks a whole lot more.

Sakiri
09-18-2013, 5:37 PM
I appreciate everyones .02 on this. I live at the end of a long hallway and I'm the manager of the building. The units are extremely small hence the reason why I'd expect a confrontation in the hallway if something were to occur.

Obviously, it would be unfortunate to stand by and let something happen. Yet at the same time it is difficult to determine how to plan in an event that something should happen.

Its hard to say if it would be better to investigate with no weapon, or with something easier to conceal, or the m4 and tactical light on the perpetrators face, ready to go.

Completely circumstantial and different depending on what's going down and of course, it's essential to take ballistics into consideration as bullet penetration could have grave consequences to others around.

At this stage, I'm thinking its not worth considering a firearm as a good form of protection, especially living in California.

You say you're manager, but are you also the property owner?

Because if you actually own the property proper, then that's an entire different ball of wax, as those halls I don't believe are "public" property for you.

hermosabeach
09-18-2013, 6:09 PM
Public vs. private is not a huge delta. There is more expectation of danger with some stranger in your house than in a common area.

Three good rats in the hallway are different than three hood rats kicking in your front door and then one opening your bedroom door.

In CA a fight should be worth going to prison and going bankrupt.

If you can articulate via attorney to a DA and Or jury that you were willing to end up in prison and lose everything you own because if you did not defend yourself then you would not be here today.

It is just not worth shooting someone for silly stuff. Stealing your stuff, breaking into your car.

Good classes will go over better shooting techniques and will run you through a bunch of scenarios.

This is coming from a guy who woke up in the middle of the night with a scumbag forcing open my bedroom window.

I did a lot of things wrong. It turned out OK for me but it caused me to wake up and realize that I knew how to shoot but no tactics.

After taking classes and reading a lot of books, my shooting and threat responses are better.

taperxz
09-18-2013, 6:32 PM
I appreciate everyones .02 on this. I live at the end of a long hallway and I'm the manager of the building. The units are extremely small hence the reason why I'd expect a confrontation in the hallway if something were to occur.

Obviously, it would be unfortunate to stand by and let something happen. Yet at the same time it is difficult to determine how to plan in an event that something should happen.

Its hard to say if it would be better to investigate with no weapon, or with something easier to conceal, or the m4 and tactical light on the perpetrators face, ready to go.

Completely circumstantial and different depending on what's going down and of course, it's essential to take ballistics into consideration as bullet penetration could have grave consequences to others around.

At this stage, I'm thinking its not worth considering a firearm as a good form of protection, especially living in California.

00 Buck shot is your friend in situations like this;)

fizux
09-22-2013, 7:22 AM
You say you're manager, but are you also the property owner?

Because if you actually own the property proper, then that's an entire different ball of wax, as those halls I don't believe are "public" property for you.
Ask some guy named Overturf how that worked out for him (apartment bldg owner on publicly accessible private property convicted of having a loaded firearm). Actually, Tincon and I had a "discussion" about that issue around the beginning of this year.

As a side note, do not be humming or whistling Bob Marley tunes (or Eric Clapton, etc.) when the cops show up to the scene. They tend to dislike that song for some reason.

Sakiri
09-22-2013, 8:42 PM
Ask some guy named Overturf how that worked out for him (apartment bldg owner on publicly accessible private property convicted of having a loaded firearm). Actually, Tincon and I had a "discussion" about that issue around the beginning of this year.

As a side note, do not be humming or whistling Bob Marley tunes (or Eric Clapton, etc.) when the cops show up to the scene. They tend to dislike that song for some reason.

Depends on the layout.

For example, one building I lived in, there were hallways, but they most certainly were not "public". The entire building was locked behind double glass doors, and you needed either a key, or a resident with a key to come down to let you in... meaning you were expected for the most part. The building was an old hotel.

If the hallway in question is inside a building or a gated area, that's not "public".

Librarian
09-22-2013, 10:14 PM
Depends on the layout.

For example, one building I lived in, there were hallways, but they most certainly were not "public". The entire building was locked behind double glass doors, and you needed either a key, or a resident with a key to come down to let you in... meaning you were expected for the most part. The building was an old hotel.

If the hallway in question is inside a building or a gated area, that's not "public".

I suggest you propose that line of reasoning to your own lawyer - with specific circumstances - before relying on that conclusion.

Might be correct; might not.

awiner
09-22-2013, 10:16 PM
Depends on the layout.

For example, one building I lived in, there were hallways, but they most certainly were not "public". The entire building was locked behind double glass doors, and you needed either a key, or a resident with a key to come down to let you in... meaning you were expected for the most part. The building was an old hotel.

If the hallway in question is inside a building or a gated area, that's not "public".

I believe this is considered a common are which is much different than being in your own apartment.

Tincon
09-23-2013, 8:24 PM
I suggest you propose that line of reasoning to your own lawyer - with specific circumstances - before relying on that conclusion.

Might be correct; might not.

I concur.

e90bmw
09-27-2013, 3:14 PM
OP,

If the guy ram away from you and you are in in pursuit, you cannot fire if he is retreating. So shooting him while in the hallway under these circumstances would be bad.

Now if you had your pistol and ran into the hallway and he followed you into said hallway *AND* you feared for your life, etc., etc., etc.... Then you could shoot because he would still be the aggressor.