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wildcard
01-14-2008, 5:46 PM
I can't decide if I want to go with a AI or McMillan A4/A5 for my .338 Lapua build. It'll probably just come down to what I like better.. but does anyone here who has knowledge/ experience of both have any compelling arguments?

I've tried the AI and like it.. I still need to try the McMillan. I have to admit.. the McMillan is rather aesthetically pleasing to me.

rksimple
01-14-2008, 5:49 PM
I like the feel of both. For some reason, when prone, the AICS is a bit more stable for me. Spend some time behind each...or just close your eyes and pick. You really can't go wrong either way.

Cypriss32
01-14-2008, 6:08 PM
Ill have my A5 out there. U can get behind it.

Vu 308
01-14-2008, 6:19 PM
If you plan on going with a custom action i.e. Surgeon XL or Stiller Tac Series I would double check to make sure the AICS fits those actions without heavily modification.

If you do have to heavily modify the AICS I would go for a McM A5 and have it built to your specs.

What are you running right now? You may also consider keeping all your stocks the same so that when you switch rifles you don't have to get use to the "feel" of each rifle.

I am in the process of switching all my rigs over to A5s so I can train with my 308 but compete with my mouse gun when need be.

wildcard
01-14-2008, 6:30 PM
Ill have my A5 out there. U can get behind it.

Perfect! Thanks. I know there'll be a few AIs out there so having a McMillan A5 to compare against will be most excellent!

wildcard
01-14-2008, 6:37 PM
If you plan on going with a custom action i.e. Surgeon XL or Stiller Tac Series I would double check to make sure the AICS fits those actions without heavily modification.

If you do have to heavily modify the AICS I would go for a McM A5 and have it built to your specs.

What are you running right now? You may also consider keeping all your stocks the same so that when you switch rifles you don't have to get use to the "feel" of each rifle.

I am in the process of switching all my rigs over to A5s so I can train with my 308 but compete with my mouse gun when need be.

I plan on using a Stiller XL action. It will require the recoil lug area on the AI to be opened up forward a little and obviously bedded. The skin would have to be trimmed a bit too.. so the modification would be considerably minor.

I currently use the standard HS Precision Stock on the 700P.. it works and I like it.. I guess i'm just a traditionalist like that. I'll have a better basis to make my decision after I try them both side by side this weekend.

Prc329
01-14-2008, 6:56 PM
Vu's reasoning is why I am going AICS for the 300 win mag build I am planning.

Mute
01-14-2008, 7:00 PM
First and foremost, a stock needs to fit you well and be comfortable in use. I prefer the AICS but some can't stand them, so you really need to get behind one of each to see how you like them.

I am also a big fan of the McMillan stocks, especially the A5, but I still prefer the AI.

Prc329
01-14-2008, 7:08 PM
Wildcard, if I can get out next weekend you can spend some quality time behind my AICS.

Cypriss32
01-14-2008, 7:15 PM
Timberwolf will have his AICS there and Ill have the A5 should be good times. I might take out the 308 too.

wildcard
01-14-2008, 7:30 PM
Timberwolf will have his AICS there and Ill have the A5 should be good times. I might take out the 308 too.

Peter will have his R&D built AI out there too. I loved the feel of that rifle when I used it. I've also held Nayt's and from what I recall, they both felt "solid" to describe it in one word. The only thing that felt awkward was the cheek position in relation to the scope but I think thats just because it's set up to their preference and deviates from my own. I just need to make the comparison between the stocks..

Timberwolf
01-14-2008, 8:22 PM
I'll have Savannah - if you ask her nicely she'll probably let you play with her a little. Seriously you're welcome to lay behind her and fire off a few to see how she feels. AICS stocks are a little odd and its basically a love 'em or hate 'em thing. I personally love them others I know say they feel like laying behind a 2X4.

PistolPete75
01-14-2008, 9:12 PM
you guys all talk like your gonna pull up behind the rifle and do it "doggy" style.

my baby likes it rough too. slap it silly, and she'll cry for some more. she likes me to make her go bang, bang.

my baby is all black. "the blacker the berry, the sweeter the juice." ice-cube. (just joking nayt)

Prc329
01-14-2008, 9:54 PM
:rofl2:

ar15barrels
01-14-2008, 11:57 PM
I plan on using a Stiller XL action. It will require the recoil lug area on the AI to be opened up forward a little and obviously bedded. The skin would have to be trimmed a bit too.. so the modification would be considerably minor.

I did not remember Nayt's AI, but is the bedding a v-block, or a radius?
If it's a radius, you WOULD have to do some significant machining to run a larger diameter action.
If it's a v-block arrangement, a larger diameter action just sits higher in the block.

Prc329
01-15-2008, 6:31 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/naytwan/Guns/_MG_0474.jpg

The top of the aluminum.

Vu 308
01-15-2008, 7:49 AM
My buddy Shawn talked to Terry Cross and he indicated that the Surgeon XL will not work in the AICS.

wildcard
01-15-2008, 8:09 AM
My buddy Shawn talked to Terry Cross and he indicated that the Surgeon XL will not work in the AICS.

I think I accidentally indicated I would be using a Stiller XL which doesn't exist.. I meant a Stiller TAC338. I spoke to George at GAP, and Jerry Stiller himself and they agreed it could be done with the minor fitting mentioned. Randy will be doing the work for me when he accepts new orders.

uscbigdawg
01-15-2008, 4:59 PM
For me the LOP on the AICS isn't ideal and just not comfortable. That and I've resolved that if I'm not going to buy an AI rifle, then I don't want to do it half ***. I love my A2 and A5.

Rich

wildcard
01-24-2008, 9:07 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/naytwan/Guns/_MG_0474.jpg

The top of the aluminum.

In the picture, it looks like there's a set channel for the barrel in front of the lug. If this section is used to partially support the barrel, then does it only accept barrels of a certain breach diameter since I was under the impression that bedding is not necessary in this system? Would bedding/ modification be necessary for a barrel that has a breach of say 1.35" or 1.20"? Or is it merely an extension of the receiver channel (to accomadate actions 1.35") where it would end up supporting a 1.35" barrel and leaving anything smaller completely free floating?

Prc329
01-24-2008, 9:12 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/naytwan/Guns/_MG_0471.jpg

You can see it better in this pick. There is a nice gap below the barrel.

wildcard
01-24-2008, 9:17 AM
Now I can see that the lug area is cut straight through, but my question is rather regarding the depth of the barrel channel. Does you barrel sit completely free floated or is it supported for that first 1"? How would it effect barrels of different breach diameters?

Thanks for the pics BTW.. you must really love your stock :)

Prc329
01-24-2008, 9:27 AM
I do. It just works very well for me. I believe the first inch or so is supported. I'll tell you for sure after work today. Unless Peter is home and he can check his real fast.

wildcard
01-24-2008, 9:31 AM
I do. It just works very well for me. I believe the first inch or so is supported. I'll tell you for sure after work today. Unless Peter is home and he can check his real fast.

If that's the case, then if you use a barrel that isn't 1.25" at the breach.. then modifications or bedding needs to be done..

Looking at the picture, it looks like the barrel channel is flared out a bit more than the rest.. which means any barrel equal to or less than the diameter of the action should be completely free floating.. I figure it out when I see one..

ar15barrels
01-24-2008, 9:44 AM
In the picture, it looks like there's a set channel for the barrel in front of the lug. If this section is used to partially support the barrel, then does it only accept barrels of a certain breach diameter since I was under the impression that bedding is not necessary in this system? Would bedding/ modification be necessary for a barrel that has a breach of say 1.35" or 1.20"? Or is it merely an extension of the receiver channel (to accomadate actions 1.35") where it would end up supporting a 1.35" barrel and leaving anything smaller completely free floating?

It sure looks like a continuation of the receiver's v-block cuts.
If you were going to use a barrel that's the full 1.35" diameter over the chamber, I would recommend clearance cutting the AICS to NOT have the barrel touching.
The OD of the barrel is not necessarily aligned with the OD of the receiver.
As most barrels are smaller than 1.35" over the chamber, this is not a problem.

Prc329
01-24-2008, 10:22 AM
Remember, the AICS was designed as a straight replacement of a Remington stock. It was designed with the stock action in mind.

ar15barrels
01-24-2008, 11:17 AM
Remember, the AICS was designed as a straight replacement of a Remington stock. It was designed with the stock action in mind.

Stock 700 actions don't ever come with barrels that are 1.350" diameter installed.

rksimple
01-24-2008, 11:32 AM
It'll handle a 1.35 barrel. Take a look at the pic here. (http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=209311#Post209311) The suppressor comes all the way back to about the action. The AICS channel is bigger than the OD of the remmy action.

ar15barrels
01-24-2008, 11:45 AM
It'll handle a 1.35 barrel. Take a look at the pic here. (http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=209311#Post209311) The suppressor comes all the way back to about the action. The AICS channel is bigger than the OD of the remmy action.

That's not an AICS.

rksimple
01-24-2008, 11:46 AM
That's not an AICS.

Really? You're kidding me?:rolleyes: The chassis is the same between them, with the obvious differences.

Mute
01-24-2008, 11:48 AM
It'll handle a 1.35 barrel. Take a look at the pic here. (http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=209311#Post209311) The suppressor comes all the way back to about the action. The AICS channel is bigger than the OD of the remmy action.

That suppressed rifle you linked is an AI rifle not an AICS so it's not quite the same, nevertheless, you're correct that the AICS channel is large enough to take a 1.35 barrel.

rksimple
01-24-2008, 11:53 AM
That suppressed rifle you linked is an AI rifle not an AICS so it's not quite the same, nevertheless, you're correct that the AICS channel is large enough to take a 1.35 barrel.

Yes, I know. I thought that people discussing this would realize that the chassis are virtually identical, barring the differences in the action area.

ar15barrels
01-24-2008, 12:37 PM
Yes, I know. I thought that people discussing this would realize that the chassis are virtually identical, barring the differences in the action area.

Without a side-by-side picture, it's hard to say...
The AI mates with a lug and the receiver appears to be flat bottomed.
Therefore, I doubt it has the v-block forward of the lug.
The one that I saw apart seems to be flat forward of the lug too, but then the lug was back a bit from the front of the AI action, more like a Mauser.

ar15barrels
01-24-2008, 12:38 PM
The chassis is the same between them, with the obvious differences.

That's the oxymoron of the week. :)

wildcard
01-24-2008, 12:43 PM
Does the receiver actually touch the flat bottom of the aluminum block or does it just sit/ tighten against the "V"?

I'm about to put my order in for one.. but i'm too impatient to answer these questions for myself..

rksimple
01-24-2008, 12:43 PM
Without a side-by-side picture, it's hard to say...
The AI mates with a lug and the receiver appears to be flat bottomed.
Therefore, I doubt it has the v-block forward of the lug.
The one that I saw apart seems to be flat forward of the lug too, but then the lug was back a bit from the front of the AI action, more like a Mauser.

You saw the AI apart? Was it an AE? The AW action should be bonded in the chassis. Not to say that they can't be separated but they shouldn't. The barrel channels are the pretty much the same and its floated forward of the lug AFAIK. I'm not going to be putting a 1.35 barrel on mine anytime soon so I don't really worry.

rksimple
01-24-2008, 12:45 PM
That's the oxymoron of the week. :)

Should have said virtually. The differences are ,well, obvious. I'll have more time and resources to explain the differences when I get my AW...still haven't broken it to the wife yet.:D

ar15barrels
01-24-2008, 12:53 PM
You saw the AI apart? Was it an AE? The AW action should be bonded in the chassis. Not to say that they can't be separated but they shouldn't. The barrel channels are the pretty much the same and its floated forward of the lug AFAIK. I'm not going to be putting a 1.35 barrel on mine anytime soon so I don't really worry.

Apart = skins off.

The AI receiver has the lug back a bit, maybe 3/4" or more.
So, while it's similar to an AICS, it's like an AICS for a Mauser, not for a 700.
The extra section of v-block forward of the receiver is what we are talking about and THAT part is not present on the AI receiver setup.

It seems that the whole reason that the extra v-block IS present on the AICS is probably because AI took their regular AI aluminum, cut a v-block in it and started adapting it to the 700 before re-naming it the AICS.
I still can't figure out WHAT purpose that extra section of v-block forward of the lug serves on the AICS unless it's to fill space in the skins.

Are the skins the same for the AI and AICS setups?

ar15barrels
01-24-2008, 12:54 PM
Does the receiver actually touch the flat bottom of the aluminum block or does it just sit/ tighten against the "V"?

I'm about to put my order in for one.. but i'm too impatient to answer these questions for myself..

The round action should not touch the flat bottom.

Prc329
01-24-2008, 1:01 PM
I believe it is tight against the V and doesn't touch the bottom. I have the skin off my rifle right now so I'll take picks tonight.

rksimple
01-24-2008, 1:03 PM
Are the skins the same for the AI and AICS setups?

Apparently not! If only the cutout is different, that may answer your question.

Prc329
01-24-2008, 1:07 PM
Yes, given the same action sizes and configurations. So the magnum won't fit on the short action, folder on non-folder, etc.

Q. Can I change the stock sides on the AICS?
A. You can change the AICS stock sides from a stage 1 (fixed stock) to a stage 1.5 (adjustable cheekpiece) and vice versa. Make sure the stocksides are the same short or long action as the mag well will be a different size. The AICS stocksides have a SQUARE cut-out at the bolt handle area and are NOT interchangeable with AI AW or AE RIFLES that have a ROUND cut-out at the bolt handle area. The Stage 2 (folding) stocksides are made up of 4 pieces.

Prc329
01-24-2008, 1:07 PM
Just some related yet unrelated info.

Q. Are the AICS magazines interchangeable with the AI rifles?
A. The AICS .308 short action magazines are NOT interchangeable with the AI AW or AE rifles. The long action .300win mag and .338 Lapua mag AICS magazines ARE Interchangeable with the AI AW rifles.

wildcard
01-24-2008, 1:13 PM
Just some related yet unrelated info.

Q. Are the AICS magazines interchangeable with the AI rifles?
A. The AICS .308 short action magazines are NOT interchangeable with the AI AW or AE rifles. The long action .300win mag and .338 Lapua mag AICS magazines ARE Interchangeable with the AI AW rifles.

Why dance around it.. just link us to the TacPro site :)

rksimple
01-24-2008, 1:14 PM
When you order them from tacpro, they don't specify AW, AE, AICS, etc. My bad. For the purposes we need to know, I guess they are essentially the same.

wildcard
01-24-2008, 1:14 PM
Woohoo! Looked at my paycheck and realized I got a raise.. treating myself to a AI 2.0!

rksimple
01-24-2008, 1:24 PM
The AICS stocksides have a SQUARE cut-out at the bolt handle area and are NOT interchangeable with AI AW or AE RIFLES that have a ROUND cut-out at the bolt handle area.

Is this to imply that there are some AW's and AE's that have a square cutout?

Prc329
01-24-2008, 1:24 PM
When you order them from tacpro, they don't specify AW, AE, AICS, etc. My bad. For the purposes we need to know, I guess they are essentially the same.

From what I have seen in pics the AICS, AE and AI are basically the same design with the "bedding" area being different. I'll see if I can find the pics of the AE and AE on SH.

PistolPete75
01-24-2008, 1:26 PM
Woohoo! Looked at my paycheck and realized I got a raise.. treating myself to a AI 2.0!

it's time to order it!

PistolPete75
01-24-2008, 1:27 PM
blah blah blah. SUAT!

aics this, ai that. who gives a dam?

AICS AW is a more durable version over the AE. a 700 action does not need to be bedded on a aics stock. if your breach is under 1.25" your all good. no mods needed.

PistolPete75
01-24-2008, 1:30 PM
time to change the subject. sure's been rainning alot. i don't think i'll be shooting this weekend.

Prc329
01-24-2008, 1:30 PM
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=436041#Post436041

rksimple
01-24-2008, 1:35 PM
blah blah blah. SUAT!

aics this, ai that. who gives a dam?

Isn't it SUAS?:D But I still agree. The reasons for wanting an AI AW now (for me) are more in the "bombproof" nature of the rifle. No doubt the 700 in an AICS is going to be just as, if not more, accurate. Maybe I just want things I'll never be able to afford...

PistolPete75
01-24-2008, 1:35 PM
Isn't it SUAS?:D But I still agree. The reasons for wanting an AI AW now (for me) are more in the "bombproof" nature of the rifle. No doubt the 700 in an AICS is going to be just as, if not more, accurate. Maybe I just want things I'll never be able to afford...

dammit, gotta change my signature again. my spelling suxs.

rksimple
01-24-2008, 1:37 PM
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=436041#Post436041

That shows it pretty well. Its funny that there is a square cutout on the AE. I bet it would take AICS stock sides...maybe not...

PistolPete75
01-24-2008, 1:37 PM
Isn't it SUAS?:D But I still agree. The reasons for wanting an AI AW now (for me) are more in the "bombproof" nature of the rifle. No doubt the 700 in an AICS is going to be just as, if not more, accurate. Maybe I just want things I'll never be able to afford...

your a dentist with your own practice. i think you can afford a real AICS AW. haven't met a poor dentist yet. but i wouldn't say how much it was to your wife.

Prc329
01-24-2008, 1:37 PM
The cake is a lie!!!!!!!!!!

PistolPete75
01-24-2008, 1:38 PM
peace outs. gotta go pick up my wife.

wildcard
01-24-2008, 1:39 PM
blah blah blah. SUAT!

aics this, ai that. who gives a dam?

AICS AW is a more durable version over the AE. a 700 action does not need to be bedded on a aics stock. if your breach is under 1.25" your all good. no mods needed.

hey hey.. this started off with me trying to figure out exactly what that 1" area forward of the lug is for. Becomes an issue when selecting a barrel and trying to fit a 1.40" diameter action that's also ~.6" longer into it.

anyhow.. on with the cock fight!

rksimple
01-24-2008, 1:40 PM
your a dentist with your own practice. i think you can afford a real AICS AW. haven't met a poor dentist yet. but i wouldn't say how much it was to your wife.

Please don't tell her! When my 300k in student loans is paid down a bit, I may just get it once and for all. But you know I can't stop at just one...

wildcard
01-24-2008, 1:42 PM
tell you the truth.. I enjoy shooting in the rain.. doesn't really effect anything accept that it empties out the range.

so who's whooting at the APS match in this weather? i most like will. it'll make a good photo op.

rksimple
01-24-2008, 1:43 PM
tell you the truth.. I enjoy shooting in the rain.. doesn't really effect anything accept that it empties out the range.

so who's whooting at the APS match in this weather? i most like will. it'll make a good photo op.

If the road isn't closed due to snow, I should make it.

ar15barrels
01-24-2008, 1:44 PM
Isn't it SUAS?:D

I've been meaning to ask that for a couple weeks now.

PistolPete75
01-24-2008, 2:09 PM
i'll probably end up going to frazier park to see the snow with the family. too rainy for me.

wildcard
01-24-2008, 2:33 PM
i'll probably end up going to frazier park to see the snow with the family. too rainy for me.

Not to rain on your parade, but the forecast is that it will be raining in Frazier Park this weekend. In fact it's flagged with a "Severe Weather Warning."
http://www.weather.com/weather/weekend/USCA0401?from=search

rksimple
01-24-2008, 2:43 PM
If its too rainy, and you guys want some snow, come on up...providing 58 is open. We got about 3 inches overnight, and its snowing again now.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b82/rksimple/0124080658.jpg

PistolPete75
01-24-2008, 3:42 PM
sounds like a great idea. tehachapi it will be. mayby you can show us that empty lot next to your place.

time to take off my mark 4. my uso is coming in tomorrow. i got my fedex tracking #.

rksimple
01-24-2008, 3:48 PM
sounds like a great idea. tehachapi it will be. mayby you can show us that empty lot next to your place.

There are quite a few empty lots. They're all 2 acres or more so it will never get too crowded.

There should be plenty of snow left if your family wants to grab a sled and go down the mountain. Lets hope the road stays clear!

If you come, bring the USO. I'd love to see it.

PistolPete75
01-24-2008, 4:09 PM
do you think we can zero it at that range?

rksimple
01-24-2008, 4:29 PM
do you think we can zero it at that range?

Definitely. I'm a member there and we can go any time. Hopefully the snow stops and theres no wind.

PistolPete75
01-24-2008, 6:30 PM
hmmm, i've had good success with them crappy noslers 168s. i think i'm going to run them out till i have none left b4 switching over to the scenars.

wildcard
01-24-2008, 6:39 PM
hmmm, i've had good success with them crappy noslers 168s. i think i'm going to run them out till i have none left b4 switching over to the scenars.

Except when the copper jacket separates from the lead core :)

rksimple
01-24-2008, 6:41 PM
Except when the copper jacket separates from the lead core :)

In mid-flight! We were just giving you hard time Pete. The noslers aren't bad at all. The scenars really have the numbers on their side though.

PistolPete75
01-24-2008, 6:48 PM
it's actually better when they seperate, cause it turns into two bullets instead of one. that's my secret.