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florsh
09-14-2013, 11:54 PM
Need some advice, looking to purchase a 223 or 22Mag Ruger bolt action target rifle. 77/22 or standard Hawkeye 223. Range only, 50-100yds What's the best bang for the buck?

milotrain
09-15-2013, 12:14 AM
I cannot think of a good reason to own a non .22LR rimfire. I cannot think of a good reason for a 1.5MOA bolt gun in .223.

6mmintl
09-15-2013, 7:52 AM
buy a Savage 22LR bolt gun and a good scope.

.22 mag is expensive and has a limited advantage over 22 LR for HUNTING (Power only, 22LR is more accurate).

.223 is longer range round 200-1000 yards depending on whether factory std. barrel or custom fast twist long barrel build.

jarhead714
09-15-2013, 8:11 AM
I find .22 WMR to be among the most fun rounds out there. CZ makes a nice semi auto if I remember correctly.

toby
09-15-2013, 8:15 AM
I cannot think of a good reason to own a non .22LR rimfire. I cannot think of a good reason for a 1.5MOA bolt gun in .223.

Where do you come up with this analogy?

TMB 1
09-15-2013, 8:34 AM
Need some advice, looking to purchase a 223 or 22Mag Ruger bolt action target rifle. 77/22 or standard Hawkeye 223. Range only, 50-100yds What's the best bang for the buck?

Unless you reload the 22Mag.

Siberian23
09-15-2013, 8:55 AM
OP for the prices you are looking at spending, I think the general consensus is that there are better options out there. For 50-100 yards, a bolt action .22lr would be great, I like the CZ's. A semi auto .22lr would be fine, I like the ruger 10/22. I personally would really like to find a used R700 SPS tactical in .223.

TMB 1
09-15-2013, 11:25 AM
Need some advice, looking to purchase a 223 or 22Mag Ruger bolt action target rifle. 77/22 or standard Hawkeye 223. Range only, 50-100yds What's the best bang for the buck?

The 77/22Hornet would be good too but you would have to reload to shoot it cheap.

milotrain
09-15-2013, 11:51 AM
Where do you come up with this analogy?

It's not an analogy it's simply a statement. I've heard the hawkeye has had limited accuracy but as I haven't shot it I am not claiming that it is a 1.5MOA gun, simply that a 1.5MOA bolt gun in .223 interests me in no way whatsoever.

toby
09-15-2013, 12:02 PM
Right!

Soul_Cal
09-15-2013, 12:39 PM
I find .22 WMR to be among the most fun rounds out there.
^
+1

GSF44Mag
09-15-2013, 1:07 PM
Unless you reload the 22Mag.

I agree with this analogy. Finding rimfire ammo these days is kinda spotty.

Sunday
09-15-2013, 1:45 PM
do the math for the price difference between 22 mag and 223. Would you reload?

pennstater
09-15-2013, 2:25 PM
It's not an analogy it's simply a statement. I've heard the hawkeye has had limited accuracy but as I haven't shot it I am not claiming that it is a 1.5MOA gun, simply that a 1.5MOA bolt gun in .223 interests me in no way whatsoever.

You've never shot one. WOW! So, how do you know that to be true?
You're knowledge of this comes from where exactly?

Altahick
09-15-2013, 2:29 PM
get a savage B mag in .17 winchester super mag

1859sharps
09-15-2013, 2:50 PM
It's not an analogy it's simply a statement. I've heard the hawkeye has had limited accuracy but as I haven't shot it I am not claiming that it is a 1.5MOA gun, simply that a 1.5MOA bolt gun in .223 interests me in no way whatsoever.

that is all well and good for you...but a 1.5 moa gun WILL address a whole lot of needs (outside of competition) just fine. heck a 2 moa gun is STILL VERY useful in a whole lot of situations...outside of competition.

However, IF you have no solid data that the hawkeye is in fact a 1.5 moa rifle, then your comments are pretty much just made data up and of no use to anyone.

OP...without more info it is hard to guide you, and go with what you want and think will be most fun on the range is the best advice.

on the other hand, if you have a specific job in mind for this rifle, better, more specific advice could be given if you share what you are looking too do.

however, my 2 cents.....

22LR...cheap to shoot, fun, but limited in what you can do

22mag, not a cheap as 22lr, but still highly fun. I often kick around the idea of getting one my self. and can do a little bit more than typical 22lr. however, some of the newer performance 22lr loads challenge that claim.

223...not as cheap to shoot as the rimfire options, but still VERY economical. nothing the rimfires can do that the 223 can't, but the other way around isn't going to be true. 223 will give you the most versatility and over all bang for the buck. several manufactures make highly accurate 223 rifles. just do your homework to see who is able to deliver right now, as all manufactures go through slumps in quality and accuracy from time to time.

stockranger
09-15-2013, 3:01 PM
22 mag generaly is not as accurate as .22lr or .223. Its main advantage is hunting. Get a cz in lr or .223.

Sent from my LG-LS970 using Tapatalk 2

milotrain
09-15-2013, 3:08 PM
pennstater, 1859sharps
Apparently you missed the part where I specifically said that I've never shot one and therefore could not confirm that it was a 1.5MOA gun.

that is all well and good for you...
Exactly, which is why I said: "I cannot think of a good reason"

I'm not making any claims for the OP, I'm simply stating some information that I read (source was chuck hawks who has been a reliable source in general but that shouldn't matter as I didn't make a claim to the hawkeye's accuracy) which should encourage further investigation and stating an opinion about a degree of accuracy. I made no attacks, I made no judgements on the OPs choices or the devices in question. Take your butthurt somewhere else.

1.5 moa gun WILL address a whole lot of needs (outside of competition) just fine. heck a 2 moa gun is STILL VERY useful in a whole lot of situations...outside of competition.
Indeed it is. Notice that I said ".223 bolt gun" not "any gun". I have a 1903A3 and an M1 garand both of which are +1.5moa easily. Specifically I don't see a reason in a .223 as there are plenty of semi auto .223s that I like that will shoot MOA. Again, non of this matters as it's my opinion and not really of use to the OP which is why I left it short and to the point.

pennstater
09-15-2013, 3:18 PM
milotrain,
No "butthurt" here; simply trying to ascertain your information. With your above comments, I'm good. Simple.

milotrain
09-15-2013, 3:22 PM
I don't like adding noise to conversations and I consider my opinions, or rather why I came to them, to be noise. That's only because I don't want to adversely influence another's decision based on my reasoning which is usually flawed and always personal.

Sorry if I responded with an edge, it wasn't necessary or helpful.

TMB 1
09-15-2013, 5:13 PM
I agree with this analogy. Finding rimfire ammo these days is kinda spotty.

You have a point might be better to get 223 whether you reload or not. Plus it would be a good reason to start reloading.

6mmintl
09-15-2013, 8:38 PM
Savage Axis in .223, with a little stock bedding, machine barrel relief and float,and trigger rework you will have a very accurate.5-.7 MOA rifle.

The actions are very stiff and barrel quality as good as std. bbl. Remington's which tend to be very accurate.

florsh
09-19-2013, 9:38 PM
Thanks all, I wasn't expecting this many peeps to respond. I've decided to go with the 223/5.56. Gonna pick up a Mossberg MVP Varmint, spend some dough on quality optics and shoot the **** out of it. Background info that I should have included with this original post. I have/own several hand guns and grew up shooting, but don't have much experience with long guns. We/the wife and I have his and hers Ruger 10/22's. Mine is a Varmint Sporter with a bull barrel, hers is a standard carbine. She's happy with it and is amazingly accurate with it. We also have an AR-15 M&P 223/5.56 I was mainly looking for an accurate bolt gun that wouldn't break the bank and I just want to slow it down at the range. Semi autos tend to bang through ammo quickly without practicing some trigger discipline. I also don't need to add another caliber to the endless ammo search. I was thinking 22Mag as I have a Ruger single six that has 2 cylinders, 22LR & 22Mag. Anyways, I wanted more velocity than 22LR and decided not to go with 22Mag. 223… Decision made, now I need optics recommendations. Maybe I should start another thread...:):):)

TMB 1
09-19-2013, 10:33 PM
Thanks all, I wasn't expecting this many peeps to respond. I've decided to go with the 223/5.56. Gonna pick up a Mossberg MVP Varmint, spend some dough on quality optics and shoot the **** out of it. Background info that I should have included with this original post. I have/own several hand guns and grew up shooting, but don't have much experience with long guns. We/the wife and I have his and hers Ruger 10/22's. Mine is a Varmint Sporter with a bull barrel, hers is a standard carbine. She's happy with it and is amazingly accurate with it. We also have an AR-15 M&P 223/5.56 I was mainly looking for an accurate bolt gun that wouldn't break the bank and I just want to slow it down at the range. Semi autos tend to bang through ammo quickly without practicing some trigger discipline. I also don't need to add another caliber to the endless ammo search. I was thinking 22Mag as I have a Ruger single six that has 2 cylinders, 22LR & 22Mag. Anyways, I wanted more velocity than 22LR and decided not to go with 22Mag. 223… Decision made, now I need optics recommendations. Maybe I should start another thread...:):):)

I just got one of them too, get to pick it up next week:)

TMB 1
09-19-2013, 10:41 PM
You have a Single Six that's a good reason to get a 22Mag rifle too.

YZINGERR
09-19-2013, 10:47 PM
I was going to suggest the mvp too!

Renaissance Redneck
09-24-2013, 8:56 AM
I definitely agree with your choice of .223. I'm even using my .223 for simple ground squirrel hunting, even though I have plenty of .22 LR rifles and ammo available. Sure, .223 is more expensive, but it's a heck of a lot of fun (and with the right bullet, squirrels literally explode and/or go airborne; gruesome and sick entertainment, I know).

I do re-load, so that helps with cost. But I also like the increased firepower for the larger canine varmints ('yotes and fox).

russ69
09-24-2013, 12:22 PM
It sounds like a 17HMR fits all your needs.

janus408
09-24-2013, 5:22 PM
Need some advice, looking to purchase a 223 or 22Mag Ruger bolt action target rifle. 77/22 or standard Hawkeye 223. Range only, 50-100yds What's the best bang for the buck?

.22lr Savage MKII bolt action. For 50-250yards there is no alternative that will be cheaper, teach you more about fundamentals, and help you train.

It started as a Savage Mark II FV-SR:

Like this one.
http://i48.tinypic.com/ws5qv5.png

I immediately put it into a Boyds Tacticool stock. The factory stock is very cheap plastic, making the gun very front heavy. It dropped right into this stock without any alterations to it, beautifully. I did need to purchase a DIP bottom metal kit for it, but it is worth every penny. The trigger guard on the FV-SR is a part of the stock, so in removing the action you have to replace the trigger guard anyways.

The metal plate around the magazine also needs to be replaced, as it is not the same size.

http://i.imgur.com/NkHck.jpg

Even if it did fit, it is worth getting the DIP metal.

The DIP is the thicker of the two.

http://www.savagegunsmithing.com/images/how_thick_22iron.jpg

While the Boyds stock is well built, there is some give to it, or compression. The thicker metal gives a more rigid and snug fitting between the action and the bottom metal.

And here is the rifle fitted in the Boyds Stock.
http://i.imgur.com/bpzf5.jpg

The rifle is fitted with the $27 shipped Harris bipod from the Sniper'sHide 'groupbuy' and I cannot recommend it enough.

Next I was on to optics. Originally I wanted to spend $200-250 on a scope and rings for this rifle, as it started as a $300 rifle I had a hard time justifying spending more. But I was convinced (they really didn't need to twist my arm much) that I should be looking to spend $300-350 for a decent mil/mil scope by the Snipershide community and Gunnit. After much hunting, I decided on the Weaver Tactical Grand Slam 3-10x Mil/Mil that is a Midway exclusive, for $300. The knobs on this scope are wonderful. The glass is clear. The only bone I can pick with it is that there is no Adjustable Objective... But as 99% of my shooting will be at 100yards or beyond, it works wonderfully.

So I ordered the scope, some caps, and Burris XT 1" Rings.
http://i.imgur.com/DvxFK.jpg

Here it is all installed.
http://i.imgur.com/X1NFB.jpg

And from another angle.
http://i.imgur.com/VydHW.jpg

a old Marine
09-24-2013, 5:33 PM
I am looking for a shot out 22 hornet, or .223, So i can put a .19 barrel on it. but a .22 rimfire nothing wrong with that

NorCalFocus
09-24-2013, 5:46 PM
Janus, I've wanted one of those stocks for my MKII, but its the pre accu trigger model. Do you know if it would still fit?

janus408
09-26-2013, 1:34 AM
Janus, I've wanted one of those stocks for my MKII, but its the pre accu trigger model. Do you know if it would still fit?

Honestly I have no idea.

But from their site:

Pre-93 E receivers can be fit to our 93-E /MKII stocks. Boyds' replacement stocks will work but will require minor fitting of your receiver to the stock, as Savage modified trigger and safety locations for the accu-trigger. Minor gap will also be visible on rear of stock with older pre-accutrigger actions.

Get one of the cheaper unfinished ones from Midway, and you can fill or dremel for it to fit as needed, then paint it yourself. It doesnt come with bottom metal, but like I said in my post, I had to replace it all anyways, so it doesnt matter.

But it makes the gun infinitely better. I bought the stock before I even had the gun, and never would have fired it without one. The factory plastic stock it came with felt cheaper than some Airsoft guns Ive had. And the balance of the gun was completely off, it was so front heavy and weak feeing.

Highly recommend making the switch.

sbcfd
10-01-2013, 6:40 AM
I have the ruger 77/22 in 22mag. It's fun to shoot very accurate and ammo isn't as hard to find as some others make it seam

Squidward
10-01-2013, 9:54 AM
Do you own an AR? If so, get a Mossberg MVP. Why? Interchangeable mags

X-NewYawker
10-01-2013, 10:15 AM
Do you own an AR? If so, get a Mossberg MVP. Why? Interchangeable mags

This. May be only .223 you're ALLOWED to own soon.

nastyhabts26
10-01-2013, 10:23 AM
Need some advice, looking to purchase a 223 or 22Mag Ruger bolt action target rifle. 77/22 or standard Hawkeye 223. Range only, 50-100yds What's the best bang for the buck?


Funny I think many answers to your question missed the mark.
You were specifically looking for a bolt action and your specifics were for .22 Mag and .223

I have an affinity for the .22 mag it is a very under rated caliber.
I have had great accuracy with my .22 mag rifle and it pretty much knocks down anything I want to shoot with it.
I wouldnt want to use it on deer or pigs, but then again I wouldnt choose the .223 for those animals either.
.22 Mag is a bit cheaper to shoot than .223
It does a good job on Coyotes out to about 150 yards and knocks the snot out of Jack Rabbits.
Skunks and Raccoon's fall to it also and it is not quite as loud as the .223
Then again I have several .223 rifles none bolt action but I do like the .22 mag it is one of my favorite rifles to shoot.

russ69
10-01-2013, 6:33 PM
Funny I think many answers to your question missed the mark...

I was thinking outside the box. What round would do the same job as a 22mag or a 223? A rimfire with near 223 performance? That's why I suggested a 17HMR. I don't know anyone that is not happy with their 17HMR and Ruger makes a nice one.

stockranger
10-01-2013, 8:56 PM
I was thinking outside the box. What round would do the same job as a 22mag or a 223? A rimfire with near 223 performance? That's why I suggested a 17HMR. I don't know anyone that is not happy with their 17HMR and Ruger makes a nice one.


Its not even close in performance. You are talking about as much as 1,300 ft lbs compared to 250 ft lbs.

If you zero a .223 at 200 you are about 7.3 low at 300.

If you zero a 17 hmr at 200 you will be about 23 inches low at 300.

If you zero 17 hmr at 100 you will be about 8.5 low at 200.

It is not even somewhat close. The .223 trajectory has it by over 100 yards. Not to mention wind bucking and energy.

Tell me again, how are they close? Even the 17wsm still has less than half the energy of .223.

postal
10-01-2013, 9:23 PM
^^Because the origional post from the OP clearly stated range use only at 50-100 yards.

----edit----

I'd recommend 22lr for that- though ammo is tight right now, it's getting better. And *usually* it's cheap and plenty accurate for those distances.

axhoaxho
10-01-2013, 10:30 PM
Nowadays, finding .223 ammos can be much easier than finding .22 Mag ammos...

... I recently got a Mossberg MVP (mine is the Predator model) .223/5.56 bolt-action rilfe. It used standard AR magazines, and had a nice adjustable trigger for its price. I had a lot of fun shooting it (straight recoil, very little muzzle rise.)

Varies MVP models are often on-sale at low fve hundred dollars, nice bang for the buck espeically if we already have AR magazine around.

russ69
10-01-2013, 11:58 PM
Its not even close in performance. You are talking about as much as 1,300 ft lbs compared to 250 ft lbs....

He said he was target shooting, I don't think the paper will know the difference.

florsh
10-16-2013, 9:48 PM
Wow, finally picked up the MVP and went to the range. I'm very impressed with how nice this rifle shoots and how accurate it is. Really nice gun for the dollar. My wife loved it, which surprised the crap out of me. She has a Ruger 10/22 set up for her and up until shooting her 1st bolt gun… She used to love her Ruger, I'm screwed as my ammo cost just doubled. Ughh

cannon
10-16-2013, 9:58 PM
Thanks all, I wasn't expecting this many peeps to respond. I've decided to go with the 223/5.56. Gonna pick up a Mossberg MVP Varmint, spend some dough on quality optics and shoot the **** out of it. Background info that I should have included with this original post. I have/own several hand guns and grew up shooting, but don't have much experience with long guns. We/the wife and I have his and hers Ruger 10/22's. Mine is a Varmint Sporter with a bull barrel, hers is a standard carbine. She's happy with it and is amazingly accurate with it. We also have an AR-15 M&P 223/5.56 I was mainly looking for an accurate bolt gun that wouldn't break the bank and I just want to slow it down at the range. Semi autos tend to bang through ammo quickly without practicing some trigger discipline. I also don't need to add another caliber to the endless ammo search. I was thinking 22Mag as I have a Ruger single six that has 2 cylinders, 22LR & 22Mag. Anyways, I wanted more velocity than 22LR and decided not to go with 22Mag. 223… Decision made, now I need optics recommendations. Maybe I should start another thread...:):):)

I think your plan is flawless and you will enjoy the heck out of it.

devster55
10-16-2013, 10:03 PM
I know I love my savage model 12. It starts to get boring Shooting it cause its so easy. That's why I love shooting my 17 hmr the wind gives you little more to play with. But I am starting to reach out and shoot farther so now the 223 is starting to challenge me. Enjoy it!

stockranger
10-16-2013, 10:33 PM
cabelas has fiochi and hornaday that come in packs of 50. Sometimes they are as low as 19.99 Both have been sub moa for me and many others. Get a cabelas card and buy it with points...Card holders often get free shipping or 5 dollar shipping too.

Wrangler John
10-17-2013, 4:04 AM
Wow, finally picked up the MVP and went to the range. I'm very impressed with how nice this rifle shoots and how accurate it is. Really nice gun for the dollar. My wife loved it, which surprised the crap out of me. She has a Ruger 10/22 set up for her and up until shooting her 1st bolt gun… She used to love her Ruger, I'm screwed as my ammo cost just doubled. Ughh

You made a good choice. If you buy reloadable brass cased ammo, save your cases and eventually you can buy an inexpensive reloading setup. Reloading can save you some money, but better still you'll learn a tremendous amount about ammunition and accuracy. When I met my wife she was loading her own .45 ACP ammo for target shooting. It's a separate hobby that teaches us discipline and precision, while producing ammo custom tailored to a particular firearm. Have fun!

eqlzr
10-26-2013, 6:40 PM
I have been enjoying the hello out of a Mossberg MVP Patrol .223 rifle. It has a 16.25 inch barrel (as I recall), a flash-hider, open sights, and uses AR-15 magazines. By reloading, I can produce rounds ranging from pellet rifle velocities up through .22LR and .22 Mag all the way up to full-house .223 loads. For the low-power stuff, I've been using Trail Boss powder, and it works great. A .223 case cut to about half length makes a powder measure that throws about a 4.4 grain charge of Trail Boss and yields velocities in the 1300-1400 fps range pushing 55 gr Hornady SP bullets. This load is based on data from the Hodgdon website. These rounds shoot about an inch and a half lower than full-house loads at 50 yards and produce 1 inch groups routinely.

Euphoria526
10-28-2013, 1:29 PM
Wow, finally picked up the MVP and went to the range. I'm very impressed with how nice this rifle shoots and how accurate it is. Really nice gun for the dollar. My wife loved it, which surprised the crap out of me. She has a Ruger 10/22 set up for her and up until shooting her 1st bolt gun… She used to love her Ruger, I'm screwed as my ammo cost just doubled. Ughh

I was going to suggest the MVP. I LOVE mine, more accurate then the proce suggest

vincewarde
10-31-2013, 1:32 PM
This. May be only .223 you're ALLOWED to own soon.

ARs will survive even if semi-autos are banned. They survive in the UK - as straight pull bolt guns. The same would happen here, if God forbid, semi-autos are ever banned.

The advantage of the bolt guns is primarily cost.

As for the OPs question:

1) .22 LR is available in a wide variety of loads, some of which approach 1500fps with a 40 grain bullet.

2) .17 HMR is at least effective as the .22 WMR and shoots a lot flatter. IMHO, it is a better choice than a .22 WMR

3) If, like me, you reload, you can produce .223 for about the same price as .22 WMR. Loaded with 40 grain bullets, it can reach 3700fps - nearly twice the velocity of the .22 WMR. You can load the .223 to duplicate .22 WMR. You can even load it with cast bullets. Cheap brass is widely available.

Today, with the .17 rimfires available, the appeal of the .22 WMR is much less than it used to be - and it has never been an extremely popular round. I own one .22 WMR firearm - a Single-Six. Even in this application, it has limited usefulness. If it is the only handgun you own, there are some actual defensive loads available. Other than this, I don't see a lot of use for the cartridge.

florsh
10-31-2013, 10:18 PM
So, a couple weeks back we went to the range. The wife loved the Mossberg MVP bolt 223/5.56 and was crazy accurate at 50yds. We burned thru 600+rds of 22LR on the Ruger/semi auto and 200rds of 5.56 on the bolt. Well, I bought a Savage MK2 22LR bolt which is an awesome rifle to shoot and I have just cut my ammo cost down to… basically nothing… Happy wife shooter...:D:D:D

Sardine
11-01-2013, 4:33 AM
I think you did good. I have 223 Savage varminter and it's accurate too sighted in at 100 yards for now. Got a Henry 22 mag and it is not accurate at all. I should have got it in 22lr instead or maybe tried it in Marlins 22 mag. But they don't have any to sell. I'll never buy another Henry. It sure looks good though over the mantle though.