PDA

View Full Version : Fact or Fear-Mongering? "What happens in CA WILL spread to other states!"


RMP91
09-13-2013, 9:20 PM
As a current CA resident (and future resident of an undisclosed free state where my rights as an American *and* as a human being are respected), I keep hearing things like this from folks behind enemy lines that "curse" us into believing that what happens in CA will happen to "X" state.

As far as this whole Colorado debacle goes, I believe it was merely opportunistic in nature, given the close timeline between the Newtown Massacre and the passing of expanded background checks and 15+ round magazine bans. If Newtown never happened, those bills would have never existed.

For every step (more like 5) California takes backwards in regards to punishing the hard-working and rewarding the lazy/welfare/baby factory/illegal/criminal crowd, pretty much every other state goes in the exact opposite direction. I do not see that changing anytime soon. Growing demographics and such are no *real* threat to the rights of other states. Sure, "illegal" demographics are increasing (though it has leveled off recently), but I don't see the other free states jumping up and down for CA-style bans. If anything, I think that some try to scare people in free states into helping them in occupied territory because of this "threat", which I believe is a very cheap and frowned upon tactic if one wishes to garner support, donations etc.

As the old saying goes: "Know when to fold" (Or move, in this case).


Your thoughts?

I'm firmly in the "No" camp. I don't believe "Californication" of Gun laws is a real thing. Colorado aside (like I said, I doubt it was Californian transplants that caused the 15+ mag ban), no other state that's purple or red (even a couple of solid blue states don't touch this stuff!) has even considered CA-style gun control beyond Committee.

PS: I usually type a *lot* cleaner than this and without nearly as many parenthesis, but I've had a long day and I'm not at my best for a political/legal debate...

Librarian
09-13-2013, 11:05 PM
The prominent example here is the 1989 Roberti-Roos 'assault weapon' law morphing into the 1994 Federal 'assault weapon' law, now sunset and ineffective.

Other states report that California folks who move out bring some of the California 'big government' ideas with them, and tend to try to impose 'the California way' on places where they move - thus diminishing the attractive features that motivated them to move.

M. D. Van Norman
09-13-2013, 11:17 PM
On the other hand, we are seeing political kinesthesis beginning to take effect. As “blue” states become bluer, the remaining “red” voters are now migrating to redder states. The nation may achieve a regional equilibrium in this manner or become so polarized that it finally dissolves. Time will tell.

ThePatriot
09-13-2013, 11:20 PM
I think that CA has become a negative example, unlike in past times when, as you say, CA generally lead the charge and others followed. CA often led on issues where the solutions seemed innovative but the gleam on all those ideas has faded and people mostly realize that pie in the sky utopian regulations fail to produce positive results.

ThePatriot
09-13-2013, 11:21 PM
On the other hand, we are seeing political kinesthesis beginning to take effect. As “blue” states become bluer, the remaining “red” voters are now migrating to redder states. The nation may achieve a regional equilibrium in this manner or become so polarized that it finally dissolves. Time will tell.

EXACTLY! Well put.

RMP91
09-13-2013, 11:52 PM
On the other hand, we are seeing political kinesthesis beginning to take effect. As “blue” states become bluer, the remaining “red” voters are now migrating to redder states. The nation may achieve a regional equilibrium in this manner or become so polarized that it finally dissolves. Time will tell.

So it wasn't just me that was seeing it?

The math didn't add up when people kept saying that "As goes California, so does the nation". Red states are getting redder, and the obverse is true for blue states (the most extreme ones, anyway). Believe it or not, some blue states, such as Ohio and Florida will not touch gun control with a 10 foot pole, even if it's their most liberal legislators proposing it. The rest of the country's Democrats would be seen as Tea Party Republicans in CA, that's how polarized it is now.

At this point, CA is pretty much a whole new continent in terms of regulations, something that even liberal New York, New Jersey and Mass. wouldn't dare touch (though NY is debatable at this point with their SAFE act).

There should be a saying "What happens in CA, will stay in CA".

It's no secret that the rest of the country wishes CA would just sink into the Pacific already.

M. D. Van Norman
09-14-2013, 12:03 AM
California is my ancestral home. My family has lived here for four generations, but I have never felt more disenfranchised or alienated than I do now. :(

tozan
09-14-2013, 12:54 AM
Well lets look at history...

California has CARB... and most of the rest of the country does not hmmm non of the other states do...

California has a Safe gun list... The rest of the country does not.

California requires hand guns to be locked up unloaded in cars (I carry a loaded gun on my seat or in my center console unless it is on my hip in the open.

You have California motorcycles and you have 49 state bikes...

You have all sorts of paints and chemicals for the house yard and automotive use that you can not have in California but the rest of the country has them.

In most states you can own machine guns SBR / SBS silencers and other fun toys to include cannons and mortars even but most of those can not be found in California...

It has been that way for along time now too... So I guess I am wondering when the rest of the country is going to follow suit...

Not anytime soon I hope...

I will admit the California disease is spreading to other great states just look at Oregon, Colorado and even Nevada has the idiots in Las Vegas with all the ex Californians moving there... I can see the rest of the USA affected by the leftists in California but it will be through their electing idiots to run the country and then introducing federal laws.

RMP91
09-14-2013, 10:04 AM
Well lets look at history...

California has CARB... and most of the rest of the country does not hmmm non of the other states do...

California has a Safe gun list... The rest of the country does not.

California requires hand guns to be locked up unloaded in cars (I carry a loaded gun on my seat or in my center console unless it is on my hip in the open.

You have California motorcycles and you have 49 state bikes...

You have all sorts of paints and chemicals for the house yard and automotive use that you can not have in California but the rest of the country has them.

In most states you can own machine guns SBR / SBS silencers and other fun toys to include cannons and mortars even but most of those can not be found in California...

It has been that way for along time now too... So I guess I am wondering when the rest of the country is going to follow suit...

Not anytime soon I hope...

I will admit the California disease is spreading to other great states just look at Oregon, Colorado and even Nevada has the idiots in Las Vegas with all the ex Californians moving there... I can see the rest of the USA affected by the leftists in California but it will be through their electing idiots to run the country and then introducing federal laws.

If we were the first (and so far, only) state to have a "Safe Handgun Roster" while everyone else never even gave it the time of day, that should tell you something about how the rest of the country views CA, even the most liberal Northeastern states (NY, NJ, MA). Like I said, Northeastern liberals would be viewed as Tea Party Republicans in California, that's how crazy CA is with it's laws and regulations.

Librarian
09-14-2013, 11:59 AM
In the immediate aftermath of Heller, I believe DC had nearly an identical copy of CA's Roster law. I think that went away, and of course DC is clearly pathological.

That makes CA law the equivalent of an opportunistic pathogen for other states, I guess.

Spyguy
09-14-2013, 12:27 PM
California has CARB... and most of the rest of the country does not hmmm non of the other states do...
Other states do have their own Air Resources Boards, and many are patterned after CARB. And even if they didn't, the federal EPA typically follows California's lead and imposes California's regulations on all the other states:

http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/01/26/obama-vows-to-follow-californias-lead-in-cutting-emission/

California has long had stricter emissions regulations, which other states, including New York, have sought to adopt through a waiver granted by the federal government. But in 2007, the waiver was denied by the Bush administration. Now, less than a week into his presidency, Mr. Obama announced his intention of reversing that policy — and then some.

http://green.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/30/epa-allows-california-emissions-rules/?_r=0

The Environmental Protection Agency has granted California’s long-sought request to tighten tailpipe emission regulations, a key step in the Obama administration’s plan to make cars across the nation more fuel-efficient.

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1071643_arizona-dumps-stricter-ca-emissions-standards-over-electric-car-rules

For several years now, states have had the option of adopting stricter California vehicle-emissions regulations or sticking with the national standards. Roughly a dozen states have voted to adhere to the California rules.

Spyguy
09-14-2013, 12:29 PM
More to the point, what do you suppose happens when some asinine California gun ban law makes it all the way the way to SCOTUS and gets upheld? Do you think that won't directly impact every other state in the union?

RMP91
09-15-2013, 12:15 PM
More to the point, what do you suppose happens when some asinine California gun ban law makes it all the way the way to SCOTUS and gets upheld? Do you think that won't directly impact every other state in the union?

Even with the most liberal judges on SCOTUS (Sotomayor, Kagel etc.), they are nowhere near the level of Steinberg, Feinstein and Bloomberg when it comes to gun control.

Plus, they have yet to take on a case on "assault weapons" and "high capacity magazines". I truly believe that the Heller decision will come back and bite the antis in the *** on this one.

And, referring to my previous post, no other state is willing to even try to come close to our level of gun control. Not even the likes of the liberal northeast is brave enough to test our might. They can only do it here in CA is because they have near total control of the state government.

glockman19
09-15-2013, 12:24 PM
In the immediate aftermath of Heller, I believe DC had nearly an identical copy of CA's Roster law. I think that went away, and of course DC is clearly pathological.

That makes CA law the equivalent of an opportunistic pathogen for other states, I guess.

Dr. I agree with your diagnosis :D

and for anyone that doesn't know what a pathogen is:

A pathogen in the oldest and broadest sense is anything that can produce disease. Typically the term is used to mean an infectious agent

tozan
09-15-2013, 1:10 PM
Other states do have their own Air Resources Boards, and many are patterned after CARB. And even if they didn't, the federal EPA typically follows California's lead and imposes California's regulations on all the other states:




While this is true, CARB was formed in 1967.... It is now 46 years later and only a dozen states are signing on for their stupidity? This does not sound like much of a following and CARB still does as much or more harm than good...

But back to the point most states do not like or agree with the gun restrictions of major liberal states and this most likely will result in some type of confrontation in the future. I believe the disarming of America is coming but we can hardly say California will be the leader. The reality is California is full of enough stupid people so they are trying to get it done here now.

California is not really the leader in all this as other cities have had much stricter gun control laws and other states have also been worse in their gun laws too.

California is hardly a leader in anything... Hollywierd might be, in their stupid agendas and how they promote them but I would suggest hollywierd is it's own entity and it would do this no matter where it was located. The another major leader in trends or fasion is NY and it is the East coast version of Hollywierd in fact NY was where it originated.

POLICESTATE
09-15-2013, 1:12 PM
If they can make it stick here...

RMP91
09-15-2013, 1:31 PM
If they can make it stick here...

That would be true if it weren't for the fact that they don't (or won't) stay law long enough for other states to even consider it. And that's not counting all the opposition to gun control...

kaligaran
09-16-2013, 3:30 PM
States that feel secure in their 'bluehood' will be more comfortable to attempt to follow CA.

States that are 'swing' states or near being a swing state, I think would definitely shy away from polarizing issues.

POLICESTATE
09-16-2013, 4:11 PM
States that feel secure in their 'bluehood' will be more comfortable to attempt to follow CA.

States that are 'swing' states or near being a swing state, I think would definitely shy away from polarizing issues.

Cuts both ways:

oPks9E2orK8

ewarmour
09-16-2013, 6:25 PM
http://www.boiseweekly.com/boise/reshaping-the-right-how-right-wing-emigrants-conquered-north-idaho/Content?oid=2883474

If anyone in Kootenai County could have predicted the Democrats' downfall, it was Dan English. He had spent most of his life in the Idaho Panhandle and monitored more than 100 local elections in his 15 years as county clerk.

The first ballots he counted, in 1996, revealed tight contests between Republicans and Democrats, but in the years that followed, the margins only widened. By 2002, the Democratic presence had been so whittled down that only one Democrat--English himself--still held an elected county office.

For his re-election campaign that year, he distributed wooden nickels labeled, "Save the Last One," reminding voters of a bygone time when his party dominated the county. That caught the attention of USA Today, which observed that English was a rare political survivor in what had become "the most Republican county in the most Republican state in the nation."

This is what freedom is. I'm home.

formerTexan
09-17-2013, 10:40 AM
You can just look north in Oregon and Washington and see that it doesn't spread. The WA leg couldn't pass an expanded background check in the last WA leg session, though rumor is that bloomie and gang will try to get it done via initiative. And a few years ago, the law was clarified/changed so that not only can you own firearm sound suppressors, but also use them, in WA. former Gov Gregoire(D) signed that one.

OR is much of the same. Same type of politicians like deleon and their ilk from Portland and the college towns, but unlike CA, their bills (toxins) go nowhere.

RMP91
09-17-2013, 1:38 PM
You can just look north in Oregon and Washington and see that it doesn't spread. The WA leg couldn't pass an expanded background check in the last WA leg session, though rumor is that bloomie and gang will try to get it done via initiative. And a few years ago, the law was clarified/changed so that not only can you own firearm sound suppressors, but also use them, in WA. former Gov Gregoire(D) signed that one.

OR is much of the same. Same type of politicians like deleon and their ilk from Portland and the college towns, but unlike CA, their bills (toxins) go nowhere.

So, basically *much* milder and saner versions of California?

Michael_Js
09-17-2013, 1:58 PM
As far as I know, there are no more CA motorcycles.

All motorcycles are compliant with CA, and therefore that was removed...

However, I could be mistaken ;) butt...

CAL.BAR
09-17-2013, 2:16 PM
The prominent example here is the 1989 Roberti-Roos 'assault weapon' law morphing into the 1994 Federal 'assault weapon' law, now sunset and ineffective.

Other states report that California folks who move out bring some of the California 'big government' ideas with them, and tend to try to impose 'the California way' on places where they move - thus diminishing the attractive features that motivated them to move.

Perhaps, but the phenomenon IS happening. Look at OR, NV and WA. All states FLOODED with x-Californians. and.... CO banned hi cap mags, OR is under pressure by anti-gun forces and WA as well is under pressure. Even TX is feeling pressure from folks in large cities (not just CA folks)

Big Cities = anti-gun. As the cities inexorably become larger, the anti-gun cause WILL spread.

CAL.BAR
09-17-2013, 2:18 PM
On the other hand, we are seeing political kinesthesis beginning to take effect. As “blue” states become bluer, the remaining “red” voters are now migrating to redder states. The nation may achieve a regional equilibrium in this manner or become so polarized that it finally dissolves. Time will tell.

No... "red" states are becoming LESS red. Look at CO (mag ban) Iowa- going democrat twice in a row and even TX feeling the "big city" pressure against the "old ways"

the86d
09-17-2013, 2:27 PM
No... "red" states are becoming LESS red. Look at CO (mag ban) Iowa- going democrat twice in a row and even TX feeling the "big city" pressure against the "old ways"

Fortunately there are more Libertarians (extreme and mild) than ever before, thanks to Obama and his droogs. Maybe that will help Personal-Liberty triumph?

Rickrock1
09-17-2013, 2:38 PM
What happens in California will eventually spread to other States. You mention CARB.
CARB has been a pain in the but and other States are mimicking CARB with similar or same restrictions just different names and different agencies enforcing.
Every truck that leaves factory has CARB rules to engine and aerodynamics. That's a fact.
Arizona counties has already adopted CARB rules. DERA

nastyhabts26
09-17-2013, 2:53 PM
There will be a domino effect and I would expect many other firearm unfriendly states to follow suit with California.
They will wait and see what kind of Sh*# storm the California legislature endures before they jump in with their version of the same thing.

RMP91
09-17-2013, 3:24 PM
There will be a domino effect and I would expect many other firearm unfriendly states to follow suit with California.
They will wait and see what kind of Sh*# storm the California legislature endures before they jump in with their version of the same thing.

If that's the case, then how did those recalls in Colorado succeed?

Surely it was because that the voters wanted a 15+ round magazine ban! :rolleyes:

formerTexan
09-17-2013, 4:46 PM
So, basically *much* milder and saner versions of California?

I would say yes. However, WA seems to be turning purple, in at least statewide offices go, if you look at the last 2 WA governor elections. One can argue they were stolen by corrupt Ds in Seattle given the margins and stuff like magically finding ballots in the trunk of a car, just enough to push the D over the top. Also, the WA state senate is marginally held by the Rs now.

OR is slightly bluer, but gun owners in OR already put up with giving thumb prints every time they buy from a FFL, and private party sales at gun shows are supposed to go through the Oregon State Police for a NICS check (the OSP just runs the check and pass info between the caller and NICS, just another "jobs" program). There has been a "gentlemen's agreement" in place for "no new gun laws" that is now at risk due to the more extreme Ds from the urban areas.

As for TX, they seemed to have a decent handle on containing the libtardness from Austin/DFW/Houston. As long as the Rs continue to draw district lines, especially for their state senate, it'll be ok. Its when states like CA who draw state senate districts according to population, just like the state house, where you have problems of the urban centers overpowering the rural, losing the balance that the founders intended for the Federal gov't, and implemented in states until the Sims case in the 60's.

Rickrock1
09-17-2013, 6:44 PM
If that's the case, then how did those recalls in Colorado succeed?

Surely it was because that the voters wanted a 15+ round magazine ban! :rolleyes:

Because the people of CO did something about the 2A violations not like us here in CA that keeps expediting our reps and courts to do something and all the work.

meaty-btz
09-17-2013, 6:51 PM
In the immediate aftermath of Heller, I believe DC had nearly an identical copy of CA's Roster law. I think that went away, and of course DC is clearly pathological.

That makes CA law the equivalent of an opportunistic pathogen for other states, I guess.

This and MD Norman's posts are bang on.

This disease is opportunistic in nature which is why I am often on the backs of free stater's saying watch out for people from here, they carry a disease, it is contagious. Ensure that you make your communities have a strong set of immune system boosters designed to remove the danger of the disease. When they don't listen their area catches the disease, every time. The Free States need to enact systems and laws that make the California Disease unable to grow.

The problem is though, that it spreads via demographics and there are other vectors besides California. There is demographic disease and edu-indoctrination disease. One should vaccinate one's community against all three vectors.

M. D. Van Norman
09-18-2013, 8:24 AM
No … “red” states are becoming LESS red.…

I think that the process is still getting started, but with Democrats seizing uncontested control of states like California, the flight of “red” voters will pass a tipping point and accelerate. “They’re moving to Texas, because they’re Republicans,” as my “liberal” sister-in-law said. This is a polarizing effect, whereby the nation divides itself.

Demographic inevitability is still at work, however, so the “red” faction will have important considerations to make. How much power and territory does it wish to hold and for how long? A reformed Republican Party or its socially libertarian, fiscally responsible successor would be healthier and more influential in the long run, but that transition will probably be difficult in the near term.

Beyond that, predictions are very hard to make. We could see anything from national rapprochement to civil war.

Drew Eckhardt
09-18-2013, 9:27 AM
As a current CA resident (and future resident of an undisclosed free state where my rights as an American *and* as a human being are respected), I keep hearing things like this from folks behind enemy lines that "curse" us into believing that what happens in CA will happen to "X" state.


Fact.

America is becoming more urban.

High housing costs due to limited space in urban settings amplifies the effects of economic disparity. More poor people seek jobs as criminals and gang bangers when their minimum wage jobs don't cover $2500/month rents on one-bedroom apartments than when $500 pays the mortgage on a 3 bedroom house.

Urban dwellers see that and are understandably afraid even though the criminals kill each other not the more affluent.

At the same time they don't have positive first-hand experiences with shooting sports (not much room for hunting and 600 yard rifle ranges).

With relatively few law abiding gun users, firearms become a prime target for politicians which stay in office by appearing to address problems without offending too many of the people who pay to elect them.

It came to California first with our dense urban areas like LA and San Francisco but is following elsewhere as the same thing happens like Colorado with its emerging megatropolis including cities like Denver, Colorado Springs, Fort Collins, and Boulder.

Drew Eckhardt
09-18-2013, 9:31 AM
Well lets look at history...

California has CARB... and most of the rest of the country does not hmmm non of the other states do...


The rest of the country does, except it's implemented as Federal law which applies to all 49 states.

California's first pollution controls were followed just a few years later with the Clean Air Act of 1970.

Capybara
09-18-2013, 11:00 AM
Librarian and Tozan nailed it. The California mindset, California Emigres who move to other states and California politicians like Feinstein who move to national office have had and will continue to have a deleterious affect on gun rights nationally. I just spent a week in Arizona, visited 18 gun shops and spoke with Arizonans of all striped during my week of work out there and yes, California is regarded as a disease in free states, especially border states like Arizona.

RMP91
09-19-2013, 4:43 PM
Librarian and Tozan nailed it. The California mindset, California Emigres who move to other states and California politicians like Feinstein who move to national office have had and will continue to have a deleterious affect on gun rights nationally. I just spent a week in Arizona, visited 18 gun shops and spoke with Arizonans of all striped during my week of work out there and yes, California is regarded as a disease in free states, especially border states like Arizona.

I think the key here is to reach out and connect to all the demographics, especially the growing/trending ones. I'm willing to guess that most of the folks you talked to in AZ were white. Not to be racist or anything, but that's not gonna cut it anymore, everyone needs to help out.

M. D. Van Norman
09-19-2013, 9:52 PM
It doesn’t matter. I can’t convince intelligent, otherwise reasonable white people, let alone anyone else. We can’t fight demographic inevitability. We have to adapt to it and build institutional safeguards while we still can.

RMP91
09-30-2013, 10:24 AM
It doesn’t matter. I can’t convince intelligent, otherwise reasonable white people, let alone anyone else. We can’t fight demographic inevitability. We have to adapt to it and build institutional safeguards while we still can.

I never said anything about fighting the trending demographics. Doing that is akin to committing political suicide.

We have to get them on our side, somehow.

M. D. Van Norman
09-30-2013, 12:19 PM
Or at least moot their opposition. Our analogy is the judicial end of segregation. Some 60 years after Brown v. Board of Education, there is no mainstream argument in favor of segregation.

2nd Mass
09-30-2013, 3:32 PM
California is the front line. What's happening here is spreading to other states as anti Californians move to other states. Look up SB 374 and you'll see the Brady Campaign (anti group) was one of the consultants.

You have organizations whose only job is to write new gun control laws for any politician that they convince to push it. Also one of the main advisors to the Brady Campaign was one of the authors of the gun ban in Australia. That's right, they're not playing around here.

A few years ago the legislation in Colorado would never have made it the legislative floor. Even Austin Texas recently had a Mothers Against Open Carry march. It's spreading.

That's why more people in Cali and all the other states must be woken up. Gun owners are easily complacent in their rights and can get caught off guard by politicians again i.e. Colorado.

RMP91
10-06-2013, 8:58 PM
California is the front line. What's happening here is spreading to other states as anti Californians move to other states. Look up SB 374 and you'll see the Brady Campaign (anti group) was one of the consultants.

You have organizations whose only job is to write new gun control laws for any politician that they convince to push it. Also one of the main advisors to the Brady Campaign was one of the authors of the gun ban in Australia. That's right, they're not playing around here.

A few years ago the legislation in Colorado would never have made it the legislative floor. Even Austin Texas recently had a Mothers Against Open Carry march. It's spreading.

That's why more people in Cali and all the other states must be woken up. Gun owners are easily complacent in their rights and can get caught off guard by politicians again i.e. Colorado.

Well, Colorado is on it's way to remission considering that they've managed to (narrowly, albeit) recall 2 Democrats who ushered forth a taste of California and are getting ready to drag down a third.

Give it time, and I think Colorado will make a full recovery from this bout of "Californianism" ;)

Rodell
10-07-2013, 8:13 AM
There is a definite "California" influence that occurs. Maybe it hasn't reached gun laws, but it will. One only need look at the NW cities of Seattle and Portland and their politics to watch it happening. Much like CA, these urban centers control huge voting blocks and overwhelm the rest of the state.

In the cae of gun laws, I would say the NW states are 20-30 years behind CA, but the influx of new residents could radically change things.

RMP91
10-09-2013, 2:33 PM
There is a definite "California" influence that occurs. Maybe it hasn't reached gun laws, but it will. One only need look at the NW cities of Seattle and Portland and their politics to watch it happening. Much like CA, these urban centers control huge voting blocks and overwhelm the rest of the state.

In the cae of gun laws, I would say the NW states are 20-30 years behind CA, but the influx of new residents could radically change things.

You'd have a point if the Colorado recall elections failed miserably, which they thankfully did not :)

RMP91
11-04-2013, 5:02 PM
I think I'm starting to understand why a lot of pro-gunners are starting to think defeatist thoughts... It's the damn media with their constant barrage of nothing but negative stories and glorifying death and destruction everywhere. Rewarding the bad and crucifying the good.

Turn off the TV. Optimism returns. :)

ccmc
11-05-2013, 5:56 AM
I think I'm starting to understand why a lot of pro-gunners are starting to think defeatist thoughts... It's the damn media with their constant barrage of nothing but negative stories and glorifying death and destruction everywhere. Rewarding the bad and crucifying the good.

Turn off the TV. Optimism returns. :)

Not a bad idea. It also helps to keep to not have a majority democrat legislature.

RMP91
11-05-2013, 10:04 AM
Not a bad idea. It also helps to keep to not have a majority democrat legislature.

Keep in mind, before JFK's assassination, the Democrats didn't even care about guns or gun control.

For that matter, neither did the Republicans...

dogrunner
11-05-2013, 12:11 PM
Well fellas, my home state of Florida is likely an excellent analogue to California.............bellweather for growth (uncontrolled), nut jobs......check Miami. Need I say the word: IMMIGRATION........hell, we got more s..t than you folks in terms of diverse idiocy there...in spades!!!

Still, in terms of conservative government we appear to be the polar opposite of you folks..........plus we grow far, far better oranges than those thick skinned orbs I find here in supermarkets with the label proudly announcing 'California'....figure that?

Well, we will suffer your oranges, take a few of your Mexicans and could stand a few more of those bikini clad of the feminine persuasion PROVIDEd you keep both your politicians and your crazy gun laws.\\

It 'do' appear that we're likely to regain open carry should some recent litigation go right. And in terms of pre-emption we 'smoke' you..........costs some real bucks if you are a governmental official and try to trump FSS 790.33.

I like Cal. have had family there for right on a hundred years now, but I have no intention whatever of any return visits..........sorry fella's, you can keep it....better yet, cede the entire southern part to Old Mexico! Hey, they own it anyway, right?


And incidentally, the Brady group loves us so well that they bought billboards at our State Line cautioning visitors that we have the right to "use deadly force"..........betcha they did not do that anywhere west bound near Indio!

Dragunov
11-11-2013, 12:49 AM
Most of the Kalifornians here in Texas tend to be very conservative. All that I know is that the conservative base in my area is growing. Most of the PRK transplants do NOT want the PRKvirus (Gun laws and bad schools being the two biggest complaints) to infect Texas. That is why they moved here. They are welcomed here.

People were kinda' leary of me here until they found out I am a bigger Hillbilly than they are. :p