Buying rifle/shotgun out of state-but Not CA

[VegasND]

Okay, before anyone asks, I know this question doesn't apply under CA law. I ask it here because you people take compliance with the law, however stupid it may be, seriously. I know if I asked other places I'd get answer like "Just do it and don't tell anyone" or "As long as you get a bill of sale you're good to go" or some other obviously wrong answer. There are people here that give the best simple answers to gun-law questions I've seen on the internet.

So, finally, here's what I want to be sure of. I may decide to buy a rifle from a private party in AZ, and have bought rifles from dealers there. I just fill out of paperwork and walk out with my rifle after the background check. If I buy from a private party I know I've got to go through an FFL to comply with federal law, but can I do it there. Can the seller and I go to an FFL in his town, fill out the paperwork, then I take legal possession?
I'm willing to bet I can just fill out the 4473, wait for the check, and pay the dealer there, but I want to know ahead of time if there's some kind of surprise buried in the law.

Thanks.

[tophatjones]

Don't use this as legal advice, but I was under the impression that federal law requires a transfer to an FFL in your state if you are importing into your state. Others will chime in soon with the right answer.

Here you go:

http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b1

(B2) From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA? [Back]

A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee's premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

(B3) May an unlicensed person obtain a firearm from an out-of-State source if the person arranges to obtain the firearm through a licensed dealer in the purchaser’s own State? [Back]

A person not licensed under the GCA and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm from an out-of-State source and obtain the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchaser's State of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and 922(b)(3)]

[AJAX22]

The key question is: Are you a resident of the state in which you are making the purchase?

or,

Are you an 03 FFL holder purchasing a C&R eligable rifle?

[VegasND]

Don't use this as legal advice, but I was under the impression that federal law requires a transfer to an FFL in your state if you are importing into your state. Others will chime in soon with the right answer.

Here you go:

http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b1
(B2) ...he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee's premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]
(B3) ... if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchaser's State of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and 922(b)(3)]

Thanks for narrowing down the links, I was probably glazing over by the time I saw that and couldn't figure it out.

It is a bit confusing though. I have bought rifles out of state from dealers per (B2) and that would seem to make it ok--"otherwise acquire"--as long as the paperwork was done.

However (B3) might seem to imply that I have to pick it up from a dealer in my own state (Nevada).

That's why I asked here, you guys parse this crap daily trying to stay legal. Thanks--and if anybody has more knowledge, I'm still listening.

[VegasND]

The key question is: Are you a resident of the state in which you are making the purchase?

or,

Are you an 03 FFL holder purchasing a C&R eligable rifle?

Thanks, and: If I was a resident I'd just pay him for it and walk away.

I don't have an FFL.

I just want to know, since I'll be there in person anyway, can I avoid shipping it and take it with me. As for paying the dealer, I know since we're from different states it has to go through an FFL; I just want to know if I can legally do it in an adjacent state. Remember, I can buy a rifle from the same FFL who'd be doing the transfer, it would be stupid to break the law to save $25 shipping!

[Mssr. Eleganté]

If I buy from a private party I know I've got to go through an FFL to comply with federal law, but can I do it there. Can the seller and I go to an FFL in his town, fill out the paperwork, then I take legal possession?

I'm willing to bet I can just fill out the 4473, wait for the check, and pay the dealer there...

Yes, that is correct. Since it is a long gun you can buy it out of state as long as the transfer takes place through a Licensed Dealer at his licensed premises. The Arizona FFL is probably going to charge you guys a fee to do the transfer.

[VegasND]

Yes, that is correct. Since it is a long gun you can buy it out of state as long as the transfer takes place through a Licensed Dealer at his licensed premises. The Arizona FFL is probably going to charge you guys a fee to do the transfer.


Thanks, that's what I thought, but I wanted to check and make sure there wasn't some weird twist because the seller is a private party. I entirely expect the guy we'll go through to charge us, after all it's what he does for his living.

[tophatjones]

922 (b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver --

3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the licensee's place of business is located, except that this paragraph (A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee's place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both States), and (B) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;



I'm under the impression that a purchase from an FFL outside your state is ok if
1) It's a long gun
2) State(s) laws apply
3) You see the FFL in person in his state

I could be wrong, but it seems that a ppt with someone from another state does not fit here, and therefore is unlawful.

ETA in red: I stand corrected