Notes about LE troll activities on Calguns...

[bwiese]

Folks,

Eyeballs are on us again, besides the usual DOJ types that have been lurking here for awhile. (Hi, Alison!)

You may have seen over the past few weeks several 'interesting' posts from newer low-post-count posters (i.e, 10 or less though, that is no guarantee.

It appears we are again being trolled by LE agencies or antigun organizations or both - they're trying to 'bait' folks into discussing illegal firearms configurations, acquisitions, etc. ("I know it's illegal but I'd really like to know about 3-round burst...")

[High post count ain't always a guarantee either: I believe there are some longer-term folks here posing as real 'die-hard RKBA' personas who are in fact not our friends.]

Whether these trollbaiters are trying to actually evolve something into a conspiracy, or just try to depict Calguns as a "forum where guys talk about illegal guns" is moot. We've acquired an image here of lawful compliance
and skill.

It behooves EVEVERYONE here - you, your friends, other Calgunners in general and Calguns.Net itself - to shy away from public or private enticement to delve into discussion of illegal firearms. Be aware of contacts via PMs or personal emails. The best reponse in questionable situations is a direct, "Don't do that, it's illegal, I don't want any part of it and don't wanna discuss this further." This could serve you (as well as rest of us) well if somehow something blew up.

Fortunately, the folks doing this are generally not that technically (or otherwise) competent and the intent in their postings is also pretty clear from the phrasings and the way questions are structured.

[Remember, guys have been charged for pointing down the street when asked by someone where they could buy some LSD, even though they did not sell or make a profit.] Answering someone in detail on how to illegally configure a gun when they know a person may well flout gun laws could fall into a similar conspiracy/'before the fact' crime. It may not be a winnable case for prosecution but you'll end up spending $$lawyer$$.

Remember, it's one discuss with another how to comply with the laws and be legal. It's quite another to discuss "yeah, build it this way to get it running, but that's illegal - don't get caught".

What is interesting is that we are getting more than just DOJ action here as the Party Goods Suppliers (Alcohol, T'baccy & Firearms) have decided we are interesting. Maybe it's just someone needing to fill an activity report, or maybe Agent Ho up in SF office has a 'constructive possession' squirrel in his pants, dunno...

[USN CHIEF]

Excellent advise.. Has there been any confirmed sittings here in Cal Guns?

[moulton]

could we have this as a board wide stickey? :confused: :TFH:

[jkasandiego]

Let them watch us and droll....:)

[bwiese]

Excellent advise.. Has there been any confirmed sightings here in Cal Guns?

I can't say 100% certainty. I can say with 99% certainty - or maybe the janitor is posting from Unusal Places at night ;)

[CavTrooper]

I would like to say hello to all the Governemnt types here, friendly and unfriendly, and remind them that though they think they are doing good work, they may in fact be abridging on the Constitutional freedoms of every American they pursue for alleged "gun crimes". Thanks for stoping by, enjoy the site, and when you realize that we are simply freedom loving, law abiding, Americans who enjoy excercising our rights, maybe youll come on down and join us for some fun at the range or out for a drink!

[Kestryll]

Excellent advice Bill, we do NOT tolerate illegal activity here and will respond accordingly if it is posted, requested or suggested.

If you see a post that looks suspicious or fishy Bill's advise is sound even if it will give ohsmily fits. ;)
"Don't do that, it's illegal, I don't want any part of it and don't wanna discuss this further."

In addition if you see a post like that PM me or one of the staff about it or use the 'Report Post' button in the top right-hand side of every post. It looks like this: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/images/buttons/report.gif

We don't need to 'rat each other out' but we do need to police ourselves as a community. No one is in a better place to do it and no one benefits more than we all do.

[Kestryll]

i wouldn't doubt that one of the moderators is a doj agent:TFH:

If you have a suspicion feel free to PM me about it.

Unless I am the 'plant' in which case we're seriously boned.... :D

[rg_1111@yahoo.com]

Just about all of us here encourage people to build legal compliance.
We all know that they check this board. Please keep it Legal.

[jkasandiego]

We police our site, do we?

[Sniper3142]

Very good advice indeed.

One should always follow the law.

And to any LE, Anti-RKBA, BATF, or other jack booted thugs who's intent is to entrap anyone on this board...

A big &#&!@#$&# *&%!@ to you and yours.

:)

[ivanimal]

Good advice Bill we should all be hyper aware of our surroundings. The best advice I can give is dont do anything wrong and the chances of an issue get less and less. Considering what BWO went through there is really no way to tell who or what mat be against us, even thought we are law abiding. As for the Mod / DOJ accusation that is absurd. Sour grapes?:rolleyes:

[Hopi]

Very good advice indeed.

One should always follow the law.

And to any LE, Anti-RKBA, BATF, or other jack booted thugs who's intent is to entrap anyone on this board...

A big &#&!@#$&# *&%!@ to you and yours.

:)


Hear any knocks on your door yet?:TFH:

[tophatjones]

It is truly a dark age when our knights and protectors scrutinize the innocent until they are found to be guilty, to promote self worth under the guise of morality.

[greggywhat]

I called doj couple weeks ago and was asking some questions and i said something about seeing stuff online and he said if you seen it at calguns then please hang up lol.

[SteveH]

Any post asking for "how to" info on illegal configurations should be immediately locked.

[Kestryll]

I called doj couple weeks ago and was asking some questions and i said something about seeing stuff online and he said if you seen it at calguns then please hang up lol.

Are you serious?

[Linh]

It is truly sad that DOJ agents/Others don't understand the law. When I was in the army working in JAG I made sure there was evidences when a soldier breaks the law. I'm starting to think that I had more rights as a soldier then as a californian. Just be careful and stay within the law and follow the rules even though CA DOJ doesn't they have our tax money to play with and waste time following stupid lead like BWO case.

It seems like they are more interested in meeting their quota for the month then to protect and serve. Perfect example my home got robbed took SDPD 30 mins to arrive but they have pently of time to sit out there waiting for those to pass the line on the stop sign. Yes I know cause I see pently of them waiting for me lol. I guess that's why cops are leaving SDPD.

Another example:

SDPD entering carpool lane violation: $427
CHP speeding ticket: $127

I would think speeding is more dangerous. I guess that's what happens when the city need money.

[RRangel]

That's good advice. It's better to be safe than sorry. It should be considered a foregone conclusion that everything you post is read by LE, and others.

Think about all those victim disarmers out there who would love to report something. BWO comes to mind and he didn't do anything illegal. It was only a matter of time before some total idiot overreacted. I'm still searching for the right words to describe someone like that.

This forum and most like it are indexed in all the major search engines. What we post here is only a click away from those who've never heard of it.

[AJAX22]

It seems odd that we would get extra attention. I can't recall seeing anything on this board which would be of interest to them, especially recently.

we're a law abiding bunch of guys.

[Fjold]

I thought that moderator who was working secretly for the DOJ was Ivanimal!


























Isn't he running the gun buy backs? I always see him buying them!

:jump:

[Piper]

I'm glad I didn't start this thread. It might have been labeled a LEO bashing thread. :D

[Sgt Raven]

If you have a suspicion feel free to PM me about it.

Unless I am the 'plant' in which case we're seriously boned.... :D

I think it would take a DOJ stooge to smite someone with a ‘my little pony’. :eek: :rolleyes: :p

[retired]

I am glad I didn't start this thread. It might have been labeled a defender of everything le thread:D

[cartman]

Not arguing with you about anything said. That being said isn't the discussion of illegal activity protected by the 1A? I'm not saying I want to, just currious as to why there would be worry about talking about it when there are websites that show everything to machine gun blue prints to detailed instructions showing explosives recipes? Is there some finer point to the law I'm missing or is it something else? I'm not trying to argue just trying tofigure this out.

[Hoop]

Folks,

Eyeballs are on us again, besides the usual DOJ types that have been lurking here for awhile.

I've been wondering that for a couple weeks now considering the rash of "is this legal guys?" posts we've had.

Anyone who's a mod (I think) can check IP's of posters and from there on out it'd be pretty easy to see if it came from the DOJ office.

Nice to know my tax dollars pay some joker to troll an internet site.

[Hoop]

maybe this whole forum should call monday and say we seen stuff on calguns and ask if its legal

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[leelaw]

Anyone who's a mod (I think) can check IP's of posters...Yes. ...and from there on out it'd be pretty easy to see if it came from the DOJ office. It's not that simple all the time, but generally yes, we can.

[hoffmang]

All,

Explaining what is illegal and why and what is in the gray area and why is perfectly legal behavior. Without it, it would be hard to understand how to remain legal.

What's being advised against is answering "how do I modify my _____ semiauto to full auto?" questions with anything other than:
"Do you have a tax stamp and CLEO sign off?"

is a really bad idea.

-Gene

[ivanimal]

I thought that moderator who was working secretly for the DOJ was Ivanimal!


Isn't he running the gun buy backs? I always see him buying them!

:jump:

Maybe you're right I am a gun grabber!:eek:

I prefer gun hoarder.:cool:

[hoffmang]

Ivan,

Hoard my gun, please! :P - http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=81537&highlight=united+stand

-Gene

[leelaw]

Maybe you're right I am a gun grabber!:eek:

I prefer gun hoarder.:cool:

<San Francisco Chronicle> ASSAULT WEAPON ARSENAL CACHE OF MASS DESTRUCTION!!! </SFC> :D

[Rob P.]

<San Francisco Chronicle> ASSAULT WEAPON ARSENAL CACHE OF MASS DESTRUCTION!!! </SFC> :D

Actually the headline would more likely read something like this:

MAN ATTEMPTS TO BECOME MODERN DAY PEPPER KING.

-AP-Jan 2008. A man in California has attempted to do with firearms what another man in recent history once attempted to do with pepper.

Calguns Ivanimal has been buying up every possible firearm in the entire world. A shortage of Berretta, Smith & Wesson, Colt, and the entire catalog of firearms from other manufacturers has been created as a result. So far his cache of weapons exceeds that of the entire armory of every branch of the US military and Canada.

In 1935 Garabed Bishirgian, known as "The Pepper King," attempted to do similar. A commodities broker in London, Bishirgian attempted to corner the market in pepper and drive prices up through the resulting pepper shortage. Ultimately he was unsuccessful but gained notoriety as a result.

Ivanimal believes that he will be successful in his bid to own every single firearm in the entire world. "I love 'em all" Ivanimal was heard to remark. Which may be true since several law enforcement agencies have had their contract orders suspended as a result of the rapacious buying frenzy going on.

"We just don't have the manufacturing capacity to meet the demand" senior staff at US firearms manufacturer Springfield Armory said today. "Ivanimal is buying everything we produce."

Whether Mr. Ivanimal will be succeed in his quest or become the next pepper king is unknown at this time. But it won't be for lack of trying.

[Anthonysmanifesto]

can an IP address be enough for a FOIA?

[trashman]

I started to make a joke about Larry Craig/wide stance and how this related to DOJ/BAFTE trolling here but...it all just makes my f-ing head hurt.

It's a good reminder that each individual is responsible not only for the legality of their OLL builds, but also for their conduct on the board...

As a sidebar - I was in Washington, DC recently and saw, again, the Old Presbyterian Meeting House in Alexandria, VA. and was reminded of how (during the 1700's) the Presbyterians were not allowed to worship in public; as such even during the icy Potomac winters the large windows of the church were thrown open so that loyalists could listen for words of sedition.

Hard not to feel the folks in Sacto and elsewhere waiting outside those windows, wanting us to fail...

--Neill

[trashman]

can an IP address be enough for a FOIA?

I doubt it, with BAFTE especially. Even as poorly as most government agencies manage IT Security, the planning and documentation of those networks is treated as "SBU" (Sensitive But Unclassified). You will not get that info through a FOIA request...

Even if you could convince the Inspector General to get interested (taxpayer fraud/waste/abuse) chance are you would never, ever know what came out the other end.

--Neill

[scewper]

It is really sad that they try to go after honest people who attempt to or do stay within the ridiculous CA laws, like we're some kind of criminal. Honestly, who is going to go through all the trouble to keep their OLL legal, then commit a crime with it? It is too bad these folks don't go after the real criminals in this state instead of wasting their time here.

[BigDogatPlay]

Our tax dollars at work... no doubt a line item in the budget for "intelligence gathering".

The first rule of anything on the Internet... if you don't want to see it read in court, don't post it on the web. All the doofus pedophiles trapped by Dateline NBC are example #1.

Any post with an illegal proposition put forward should be reported and broomed immediately and the poster who made the proposition banned in quick succession.

[TheMan]

All,

Explaining what is illegal and why and what is in the gray area and why is perfectly legal behavior. Without it, it would be hard to understand how to remain legal.

What's being advised against is answering "how do I modify my _____ semiauto to full auto?" questions with anything other than:
"Do you have a tax stamp and CLEO sign off?"


I saw that 3 round burst question posted today, and I still see no harm in discussing NFA weapons, since some people here do have out of state residences, or other reasons to legally know about them. Maybe the poster was with a govt agency that had the proper authority to convert them, and they knew this was the best place to learn?:D

I read up on that stuff, not because I have any interest in making one illegally, but because understanding how it works, helps to understand how the rifle works period. And knowing the legal issues with NFA, even if you can't get own them, could help keep you from accidentally breaking any laws for constructive possession, etc. Gun owners should be able to read on this site, for example, that the unregistered Drop In Auto Sears advertised for sale in certain magazines can not legally be used to make a MG, and that mere possession of one can be illegal.

[outersquare]

Our tax dollars at work... no doubt a line item in the budget for "intelligence gathering".

The first rule of anything on the Internet... if you don't want to see it read in court, don't post it on the web. All the doofus pedophiles trapped by Dateline NBC are example #1.

Any post with an illegal proposition put forward should be reported and broomed immediately and the poster who made the proposition banned in quick succession.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aIXVqmBvAcmA

given CA coming budget crisis, perhaps it's time we each start contacting our respective representatives with the suggestion that cuts start at certain minimally useful branches of the state government. . .

[N6ATF]

I'm glad I didn't start this thread. It might have been labeled a LEO bashing thread. :D

I am glad I didn't start this thread. It might have been labeled a defender of everything le thread:D

There's still time. :nono:

[5968]

Thanks for the heads up Bill. I think as a whole, the members here are pretty good at trying to make sure everybody stays legal. It is said if they have resorted to trying to bait someone over the internet to get an arrest.

[Sam Hainn]

There's more threads than ever posted recently by low-count newbs with baiting questions & questionable topic-matter. They tend to hint toward illegal actions. I don't get much of a DOJ/ATF feel as I do of the Brady/HCI/MMM crowd because they heard this is the biggest CA influence to troll. I supppose they got tired of AR15.com and THR. It seems like some might be putting in a few borderline but general technical questions at 4 to 1 of a stupid "is this legal" question just to gain board clout. The general technical questions that sound semi gun-smart are probably stuff they copied from other forums and pasted here. :mad:

Here is my recent beef: what's up with a lot of NEW low-post-count Calguns members from other states suddenly sending multiple PMs to buy guns from off of Calguns? :confused:

[Toolbox X]

Guys,

Okay, I'm coming out of the closet. I'm a LEO/DOJ troll. You've got me.

;)

[Steyr_223]

Calguns.net could all be part of a massive CA DOJ sting...Ever since Ramon left and ownership changed...Could it be the mods are all CA DOJ agents?

:)


Hello Quislings!

[M. Sage]

Calguns.net could all be part of a massive CA DOJ sting...Ever since Ramon left and ownership changed...Could it be the mods are all CA DOJ agents?

:)


Hello Quislings!

If we are, it's news to me. :p

And the "recent" discoveries haven't been CA DOJ. :TFH: Think... bigger.

[tgriffin]

Not to give the opposition any idea's (I'm sure I'm not), but I would hope anyone who is .mil or .gov would be smart enough to be accessing here via a proxy server. My only point here is that its not as simple as checking a single IP address.

[Army GI]

SON. OF A ****ING. *****.

It all makes sense, now:

Hello -

I saw your add in TheFiringLine.com and noticed you are an AR15 owner in California. I was wondering if it would be OK to ask you a couple of questions ( via email ) regarding ownership and bullet button.

Regards

Doug

:mad:

[Soldier415]

SON. OF A ****ING. *****.

It all makes sense, now:



:mad:

:TFH: :TFH: :TFH: :TFH: :TFH:

[Liberty1]

http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/182.html

Conspiracy:

California Penal Code Section 182

(a) If two or more persons conspire:

(1) To commit any crime...

I've been told the elements are two (or more) individuals discuss the commission a crime and then just one of them takes one "overt" step toward completion of that crime. It is used as a big catch all for the lack of real proof of criminal action.

(Hey BWO - remember those two johny come lately's to the BWO South Pass. Victory Party who wouldn't take no for an answer regarding skirting the high caps law? - then they split like they weren't interested in friendly chat. Hmmmmmmm).

[Liberty1]

Excellent advise.. Has there been any confirmed sittings here in Cal Guns?

Hey...for just getting here in Nov'07 your post count has risen as fast as if you might be getting paid to be here. :eek::TFH::D:willy_nilly:;)

[StukaJr]

I joined CalGuns to become well informed and educated on the complexities of the CA gun laws and minimizing the chances of frivolous prosecution - let's keep to it and let the baiters wast their time.

[Davidk]

How about trolling the pedephile forums instead.
To use a leo term. "Move along, theres nothing to see here"
:whistling:

[p7m8jg]

I joined Calguns to avoid being one of those prosecutors who makes dumb charging decions under these convoluted and ridiculous AW laws...

Plus I own and registered my evil green (not black) AW and would like to stay out of legal trouble myself! Not to mention figure out which are the best accesssories to add ! :)

Plus I enjoy the witty conversations posted here and there.....

JOhn

[jmlivingston]

Well John, it's nice to have you here. The more that people in positions like yourself's are educated on what really is/isn't legal in our state, the better chance we have of reducing and eliminating misguided cases such as what recently transpired with BlackwaterOps.

John

[socalguns]

you guys are chickens too? I mean ain't nobody here but us chickens right? Ok I am a chicken

[Toolbox X]

I joined Calguns to avoid being one of those prosecutors who makes dumb charging decions under these convoluted and ridiculous AW laws...

You are a prosecutor?

[hoffmang]

One thing I want to make very clear.

I for one welcome all Law Enforcment, Attorneys (private and state) and any other state related individual to come and participate in either their personal or official capacity.

What's being warned against is surreptitious participation. Trying to appear to be a college or high school kid trying to figure out how to break the law when you're really a mid 30's Federal Agent is uncool.

Being a mid 30's Federal Agent and having a reasoned and informed discussion is excellent and we have quite a few of those here.

-Gene

[Bishop]

Heh. Talk about the wrong forum to troll. The whole reason this place is popular is because we WANT to obey the law.

[troyus]

Heh. Talk about the wrong forum to troll. The whole reason this place is popular is because we WANT to obey the law.

Calguns.net - Because Jail Sucks! :D

[Piper]

Since I consider myself an expert with regards to knowlege about the AR15/M16/M4, I will say this. You need several parts to convert an AR15 to a select fire M16. First is the bolt carrier, the next part is the selector switch, and then there are the parts and springs for the trigger mechanism and the fixed or drop in sear. Without all of these parts the weapon won't function on FA. But to have even one of these parts, it's illegal. And if you get caught selling these parts by ATF, you risk several years in federal prison and/or 10,000.00. So my question is why risk it? And to those that are trolling to find potential business, I'm not aware that talking about converting a firearm is illegal by any laws I've read. Anyway, with cops, former cops, lawyers and a ton of other law abiding people here, isn't there something more constructive a DOJ/LE/Fed troller can do to drum up business and catch the REAL badguys? To the Brady trollers, all I can say is BITE ME!

[smogcity]

Heh. Talk about the wrong forum to troll. The whole reason this place is popular is because we WANT to obey the law.


+1000...

[TKM]

Hey...for just getting here in Nov'07 your post count has risen as fast as if you might be getting paid to be here. :eek::TFH::D:willy_nilly:;)


Damn skippy. Posts when the wind blows. I know women that spend less time yapping. Not many, mind you. But I know them.

[wildcard]

Since I consider myself an expert with regards to knowlege about the AR15/M16/M4, I will say this. You need several parts to convert an AR15 to a select fire M16. First is the bolt carrier, the next part is the selector switch, and then there are the parts and springs for the trigger mechanism and the fixed or drop in sear. Without all of these parts the weapon won't function on FA. But to have even one of these parts, it's illegal. And if you get caught selling these parts by ATF, you risk several years in federal prison and/or 10,000.00. So my question is why risk it? And to those that are trolling to find potential business, I'm not aware that talking about converting a firearm is illegal by any laws I've read. Anyway, with cops, former cops, lawyers and a ton of other law abiding people here, isn't there something more constructive a DOJ/LE/Fed troller can do to drum up business and catch the REAL badguys? To the Brady trollers, all I can say is BITE ME!

Were you being sarcastic when you wrote this about being an "expert?" It's perfectly legal to be in possession of a M16 bolt carrier. And while i'll concede i'm not sure about the springs.. i've never heard of an illegal spring specific for FA guns.

[Piper]

Were you being sarcastic when you wrote this about being an "expert?" It's perfectly legal to be in possession of a M16 bolt carrier. And while i'll concede i'm not sure about the springs.. i've never heard of an illegal spring specific for FA guns.

Actually, there is a difference between an AR15 bolt carrier and an M16 bolt carrier and ATF considers the M16 bolt carrier to be an MG part. So if they catch you with it, they will charge you with possession.

Just a little background, they did this to a guy they popped for drug and alien smuggling back in '88 when I worked a case with them.

[AJAX22]

The bolt carrier is the one FCG part that the BATFE allows to be used in regular ar15 rifles.

Many civilian ar15's actually ship with m16 boltcarriers.

The parts that contribute to constructive posession are the trigger, selector, disconector, and auto sear.

[Piper]

The bolt carrier is the one FCG part that the BATFE allows to be used in regular ar15 rifles.

Many civilian ar15's actually ship with m16 boltcarriers.

The parts that contribute to constructive posession are the trigger, selector, disconector, and auto sear.

Okay, then I stand corected on the bolt carrier. Obviously something has changed since '88 because it was originally listed as an MG part. One of the differences back then was how the bot carrier was machined for an AR15 as opposed to an M16. The underside of the bolt carrier that works with the hammer was cut away to only allow semi-auto fire. They may have done away with that. Back then they also included trigger springs because they were sturdier and could stand up to FA.

[savasyn]

Here's a thought, maybe the DoJ and BoF guys are trolling the site in hopes of us explaining all the convoluted laws they are trying to enforce. It's clear they don't understand them but that, for the most part, people here do.

Of course, sneaking around in a troll capacity is pretty sad, but maybe they just don't want their bosses to know they don't understand this **** either ;)

[wildcard]

Actually, there is a difference between an AR15 bolt carrier and an M16 bolt carrier and ATF considers the M16 bolt carrier to be an MG part. So if they catch you with it, they will charge you with possession.

Just a little background, they did this to a guy they popped for drug and alien smuggling back in '88 when I worked a case with them.

There's definitely differences between the two carriers. Where differ in opinion is the legality in the possession/ use (w/o fire control parts) of the M16 bolt carrier. The M16 bolt carrier is not a restricted and can not be used to construct a machinegun from a AR15 without also the use of M16 fire control parts.

But if you had the M16 bolt carrier along with the fire control parts or DIAS.. then there'll be problems.

[Piper]

There's definitely differences between the two carriers. Where differ in opinion is the legality in the possession/ use (w/o fire control parts) of the M16 bolt carrier. The M16 bolt carrier is not a restricted and can not be used to construct a machinegun from a AR15 without also the use of M16 fire control parts.

But if you had the M16 bolt carrier along with the fire control parts or DIAS.. then there'll be problems.

I understand what you're saying. But that would go with any of the parts including the selector switch which is also considered an MG part. I'm just relating what ATF told me 20 years ago.

[bwiese]

BATF does NOT regard an M16 carrier as an illegal MG part on an AR15.

Many top-tier AR15 vendors, including Colt, shipped (or have shipped, or offer as an option) an M16 bolt carrier. While normally you should not regard something as legal just because it's sold, this is not one of those cases.

[In fact I believe ALL Colt 9mm ARs have a 9mm M16 SMG bolt in them.]

Just don't have M16 fire control parts installed (either with or without M16 carrier).

[Piper]

BATF does NOT regard an M16 carrier as an illegal MG part on an AR15.

Many top-tier AR15 vendors, including Colt, shipped (or have shipped, or offer as an option) an M16 bolt carrier. While normally you should not regard something as legal just because it's sold, this is not one of those cases.

[In fact I believe ALL Colt 9mm ARs have a 9mm M16 SMG bolt in them.]

Just don't have M16 fire control parts installed (either with or without M16 carrier).

Thanks for the update Bill. Amazing how things change over 20 years. :D

[bwiese]

Thanks for the update Bill. Amazing how things change over 20 years. :D

I don't think anything changed other than 'actual details' vs. 'common knowledge = no M16 parts at all in AR15".

[wildcard]

I understand what you're saying. But that would go with any of the parts including the selector switch which is also considered an MG part. I'm just relating what ATF told me 20 years ago.

Well i'm no expert either and I'm not going to stick a selector switch or whatever into any ARs to look cool. The M16 bolt carrier on the other hand actually serves a pupose outside of making ARs go full auto and are legal, so why not :)

But in a state/ goverment where you can be arrested for actions that are legal, it's up to the individual to make the decision based on what level of risk is acceptable to them.

[50 Freak]

Ya got me copper.....I'm the one that told some nubie how to build a 6 Short barreled rotating 60mm HE tipped Gatlin cannon that will fit under a trenchcoat. Using nothing but some duct tape, chewing gum, tennis ball containers and rubberbands....

Quantanimo..here I come...

[mike100]

I'd like to know when/if you can ever determine a troll and out them publicly.

[AJAX22]

You know... as certain as I am about how well i understand some aspects of firearms law I still find myself breathing a little easier when bill agrees.

All of my AR's have M16 Bolt carriers, (including my rare transitional slickside upper) ;)

[Turbinator]

Calguns.net could all be part of a massive CA DOJ sting...Ever since Ramon left and ownership changed...Could it be the mods are all CA DOJ agents?

Hmm, wow, so I actually might have a 2nd job I wasn't aware of. Maybe I should go claim backpay as a DOJ agent.. I'll happily pay the taxes owed, too. :)

Turby

[compulsivegunbuyer]

Is this legal? I just bought it on Craigslist- just wondering if it's kosher with California law?

7223

[Fjold]

Is this legal? I just bought it on Craigslist- just wondering if it's kosher with California law?

7223


Nope, no front license plate.

[Hopi]

Is this legal? I just bought it on Craigslist- just wondering if it's kosher with California law?

7223

Throw a Prince-50 on that and you should be good to go*.....:D











***This is not legal advice. :TFH:

[Max-the-Silent]

Not bad advice Bill.

I doubt that any local agency would waste resources looking at calguns when you can bust hookers and drug dealers on Craig's, but it's possible that individual officers might get a wild hair somehow, and Ca.doj.gov.org might well throw out some bait.

The old rules still apply in the cyber age - don't do anything here that you wouldn't want to see on the front page of the newspaper, or on an arrest warrant.

[compulsivegunbuyer]

Nope, no front license plate.

:smilielol5:

[ViPER395]

Nope, no front license plate.

What about SMOG?

[hoffmang]

What about SMOG?

Probably weight exempt...

-Gene

[capo]

FYI, I'm not new, I have over 1,000 posts under another name that I no longer post under for 'certain' reasons, one of which the subject of this thread. Not that I ever have done, or have asked about anything illegal, though.

[Nodda Duma]

I joined Calguns recently after seeing a reference on another board. Great site and lots of good info with practical application to everyday shooting life here in California. I hope my low post count and the fact I work for the Navy doesn't mean I'm considered a bad guy. 2E8B's post seems to include .mil's in "the opposition". Hopefully I misread that. If not, I'd tend to think he hasn't met very many .mil's.

I don't post much..mostly read. Calguns.net is doing good stuff here.

-Jason

[TheMan]

How about trolling the pedephile forums instead.
To use a leo term. "Move along, theres nothing to see here"
:whistling:

They see enough of those forums in their off time. :D

[Liberty1]

I hope my low post count and the fact I work for the Navy doesn't mean I'm considered a bad guy.

You can't fool us. You're still a suspect. Then again so am I.:eek:

[tenpercentfirearms]

You know what is funny about this thread, you guys have no clue. Lets rewind and think about this.

A red headed guy from Taft (aka BFE) who is a brand new FFL decides to start selling OLLs just weeks after the news goes public. He DROSes two guns in November and then 150 or more lowers in December. He goes to San Jose, seems to have a cordial conversation with Ignatius Chin in public, and continues to troll around Calguns. All the while he suddenly starts an "online" business that is clearly tracking everyone's Bullet Button, MonsterMan Grips, U-15, and lower sales. He has DL info, serial numbers, and all sorts of things.

The DOJ raids his place and he gets written up for nothing! They take 16 lower receivers that get replaced by the manufacturer. Guys drive down to his shop and it is nothing but a room with a desk, a computer, and a gun safe. No one notices that next door is a recycling center that is heavily in debt to other state agencies (leverage for a bigger case, unless you cooperate).

The worst part no one does a back ground check on him or they would discover that this Wes Morris was born Wes Merrilees.

All your base are belong to us.

[Cazach]

So explain the scooter then! :D

[Liberty1]

So explain the scooter then! :D DOJ cares about the environment?

[SemiAutoSam]

Well that explains the pink AR15 now doesn't it.

Any comment MS Merrilees?

[tenpercentfirearms]

The scooter and the shoes were my biggest hint. No self-respecting gun owner would be seen riding a scooter with rubber shoes.

[Sam Hainn]

Ya got me copper.....I'm the one that told some nubie how to build a 6 barreled rotating Short Barreled 60mm HE tipped Gatlin cannon that will fit under a trenchcoat. Using nothing but some duct tape, chewing gum, tennis ball containers and rubberbands....

Quantanimo..here I come...

Well, I got it to function flawlessly. but can you help me zero in the Gen-IV Night-vision scope?

[Rob P.]

Well, I got it to function flawlessly. but can you help me zero in the Gen-IV Night-vision scope?

Certainly. But first you'll need some supplies.

A roll of TP, the bristles off your first adult toothbrush, and an old left sock.....

[rue]

Probably weight exempt...

-Gene

Yup over 10,000 GVWR are exempt >smog tech over here :D

[Sam Hainn]

Certainly. But first you'll need some supplies.

A roll of TP, the bristles off your first adult toothbrush, and an old left sock.....

No, no, no...... I'm not sighting in an AK47 !

(and if I were, you would've also needed to add a bottle of Stolis in that supply list) - :p

[50 Freak]

Seriously guys, Bill usually has a reason for posting stuff like this. His aluminum foil cap is well made and his Gunfu is strong.

I would seriously pay heed to his warnings and be a little cautious.

[lawnrevenge]

we need a government-troll emoticon

[Liberty1]

Seriously guys, Bill usually has a reason for posting stuff like this. His aluminum foil cap is well made and his Gunfu is strong.

I would seriously pay heed to his warnings and be a little cautious.

Just look at the viewed counter vs the post counter! This link must have gone out in a DHS internal memo.

[jcardona1]

Well, I came across Calguns after wanting to purchase a CA-legal AR15. I saw a Vulcan at a local gun store, so I went home and Google'd "CA Vulcan AR 15" to do some research.

Sure enough, I read the multiple posts that said Vulcans are POS and realized that I could BUILD a real AR that was legal in CA. All thanks to Calguns...and I'm not a troll :D

[hoffmang]

Bill is alluding to one confirmed case and one suspected case. This was not a drill.

-Gene

[Beatone]

Bill is alluding to one confirmed case and one suspected case. This was not a drill.

-Gene

So true, So true.

[artherd]

Just a quick reminder, we have some of the best technical minds in the world as members. We know who you are (wether you're using the office machines or 'other' computers.) The owners of this site have been very clear; Illegal behavior, including Malfeasance, will not be tollerate on this board.

[tombinghamthegreat]

The gov't is playing eye spy on this forum, and yet the feds can't fund their wiretaping activities.:confused:. I don't do anything illegal but the defination seems to be expanding per day, i will use the 5th amendment on some of my activities. Thanks for the reminder. Can the DOJ members put virus on the forum and sneak on our computers to track online activity?

[jdberger]

Illegal behavior, ncluding malfensence, will not be tollerate on this board.

No Malfensence! Or discombobulary!

And you have to post your PowerPoints when you're done with them.

[SemiAutoSam]

WOW Ben that was awesome I haven't heard that word since I last watch "Its a Wonderful Life" Mr Potter in the bank when George is looking for the deposit money that uncle Billy lost when he was attempting to make a deposit.



just a quick reminder, we have some of the beat technical minds in the world as members. We know who you are (whether you're using the office machines or 'other' computers. The owners of this site have been very clear; Illegal behavior, including malfensence, will not be tollerate on this board.

[scootergmc]

I welcome them all. I hope they learn much and are able to apply it to their day in and out dealings.

I also hope those watching in a position of influence are able to make recommendations for change to the current laws realizing the futility of current legislation on the books. We aren't the bad guys.

I have never read anything advocating illegal behavior on this website...other than those wanting to beat that lovely lady in my avatar with a fishing rod...

[BaronW]

I have never read anything advocating illegal behavior on this website...other than those wanting to beat that lovely lady in my avatar with a fishing rod...

That's not very nice, considering she's clearly already been beaten with the ugly stick.

[Soldier415]

That's not very nice, considering she's clearly already been beaten with the ugly stick.

Very true, if i had a dog that looked like her...i'd shave it's *ss and make it walk backwards

[kurac]

I said it before and I'll say it again. The reason they are going after honest law abiding citizens is because criminals are too dangerous. Think about, they are normal people who want to go home to their families at the end of the day. What gives them a better chance of doing that, going after the Oakland kingpin or some guy on calguns.

[Linh]

I said it before and I'll say it again. The reason they are going after honest law abiding citizens is because criminals are too dangerous. Think about, they are normal people who want to go home to their families at the end of the day. What gives them a better chance of doing that, going after the Oakland kingpin or some guy on calguns.

Sad but true. It's more of a crime to own a 30 rd mag then to smoke some weed. BTW our great leader lol plans to release over 22,000 prisioners due to budget issues lol oh my goodness 22,000 criminals on the streets of california I've seen Lock Up enough to know that jail doesn't make a person better.

On a more serious note I do notice some on this site lately that sound like LE/DOJ asking some stupid question.

I believe their goal is to prove that calguns promote illegal "stuff" and they can somehow try to shut calguns down. I don't know about others but the only reason I knew about OLL california legal rifle is due to a fellow californian pointing me to this site.

[p7m8jg]

You are a prosecutor?

LEO from 1978 to 1988. Got the bright idea to go to law school, became a civil attorney for a whole 2 years, missed law enforcement, became a prosecutor in 1993.

And you're right, most prosecutors don't know guns from diddly, nor gun laws, nor assault weapons, nor wound ballistics, nor how a body reacts to being shot, yadda yadda yadda.

I like to think with my experience and gun avocation maybe I know diddly+, so I'm just short of being really dangerous....:rolleyes:

I usually don't say exactly where I work since my boss is an elected official and subject to the whims of the voting public. But its not hard to figure out.

I'm glad to have found this forum.

[Soldier415]

LEO from 1978 to 1988. Got the bright idea to go to law school, became a civil attorney for a whole 2 years, missed law enforcement, became a prosecutor in 1993.

And you're right, most prosecutors don't know guns from diddly, nor wound ballistics, nor how a body reacts to being shot. I like to think with my experience I know diddly+, so I'm just short of being really dangerous....:rolleyes:

I usually don't say exactly where I work since my boss is an elected official and subject to the whims of the voting public. But its not hard to figure out.

I'm glad to have found this forum.

And we are glad to have you. If you hang out here and read through what’s going on, you will expand your knowledge way above didly +

I have learned a great deal here and continue to learn every week.

[Paratus et Vigilans]

You know what is funny about this thread, you guys have no clue. Lets rewind and think about this.

A red headed guy from Taft (aka BFE) who is a brand new FFL decides to start selling OLLs just weeks after the news goes public. He DROSes two guns in November and then 150 or more lowers in December. He goes to San Jose, seems to have a cordial conversation with Ignatius Chin in public, and continues to troll around Calguns. All the while he suddenly starts an "online" business that is clearly tracking everyone's Bullet Button, MonsterMan Grips, U-15, and lower sales. He has DL info, serial numbers, and all sorts of things.

The DOJ raids his place and he gets written up for nothing! They take 16 lower receivers that get replaced by the manufacturer. Guys drive down to his shop and it is nothing but a room with a desk, a computer, and a gun safe. No one notices that next door is a recycling center that is heavily in debt to other state agencies (leverage for a bigger case, unless you cooperate).

The worst part no one does a back ground check on him or they would discover that this Wes Morris was born Wes Merrilees.

All your base are belong to us.

Wes, you have GOT to start opening up the windows and getting a cross-draft in there when you clean the guns . . . the Hoppe's No. 9 fumes are rotting your brain!!! :D

[tombinghamthegreat]

Sad but true. It's more of a crime to own a 30 rd mag then to smoke some weed. BTW our great leader lol plans to release over 22,000 prisioners due to budget issues lol oh my goodness 22,000 criminals on the streets of california I've seen Lock Up enough to know that jail doesn't make a person better.

On a more serious note I do notice some on this site lately that sound like LE/DOJ asking some stupid question.

I believe their goal is to prove that calguns promote illegal "stuff" and they can somehow try to shut calguns down. I don't know about others but the only reason I knew about OLL california legal rifle is due to a fellow californian pointing me to this site.

Can you say more gun control? Crime will go up and that is CA response. Also on another note, this site is taught me so much about the CA laws. This site allows me to avoid the land mine gun laws in CA and do what is necessary to defend my family.

[p7m8jg]

Ahhh, Hoppe's No 9 Solvent. <sigh>

Believe it or not, when I started dating my wife she thought it was some type of cologne I was wearing.

Now whenever she smells me cleaning a firearm, it takes her back to those wonderful days 27 years ago....

Let that be a lesson - get them romantically "linked" to firearms when you first meet them!!! :D

[Soldier415]

Let that be a lesson - get them romantically "linked" to firearms when you first meet them!!! :D

I tried that, but apparently she wasn't down with a three-way with a remington 870

[soopafly]

It's more of a crime to own a 30 rd mag...It is perfectly legal to own a 30 rd mag.

[ViPER395]

It's more of a crime to buy/import/manufacture/offer for sale/loan a 30 rd mag...It is perfectly legal to own a 30 rd mag.

Fixed it. ;)

[aileron]

I tried that, but apparently she wasn't down with a three-way with a remington 870

I've always known you were weird man, but dude. :nono:

:p

[AJAX22]

welcome to the board p7m8jg, but be carefull hanging around here

the word on the streets is 'we're subversive' ;)

[AJAX22]

Yup over 10,000 GVWR are exempt >smog tech over here :D

So.... if I figured out how to stick five tons of something in the bed of my pickup when I go for my weigh sticker I don't have to get it smogged :43: ?

that doesn't make alot of sense.... are there other penatlys for driving such a behemouth?

[Soldier415]

I tried that, but apparently she wasn't down with a three-way with a remington 870


I've always known you were weird man, but dude. :nono:

:p

I love guns...what can I say :D

Besides...that's sig material right there :;

[simonov]

just a quick reminder, we have some of the beat technical minds in the world as members. We know who you are (wether you're using the office machines or 'other' computers. The owners of this site have been very clear; Illegal behavior, ncluding malfensence, will not be tollerate on this board.

Thank goodness you can't get banned for execrable spelling!

[ViPER395]

Thank goodness you can't get banned for execrable spelling!

"beat technical minds" was my fav.

[Harrison_Bergeron]

So.... if I figured out how to stick five tons of something in the bed of my pickup when I go for my weigh sticker I don't have to get it smogged :43: ?

that doesn't make alot of sense.... are there other penatlys for driving such a behemouth?

I think the idea is that after a certain weight point it is not going ot be a daily driver and therefore its emmisions will be negligeble in the grand scheme. Still a moot point, I'd imagine somethig like that would be diesel, diesels don't have to pass smog.

[Anthonysmanifesto]

I usually don't say exactly where I work since my boss is an elected official and subject to the whims of the voting public. But its not hard to figure out.

I'm glad to have found this forum.


welcome.

[PonchoTA]

I sometimes post from my work computer too (during lunch primarily) and that is a .mil address. Please don't hold that against me!! I just want to make sure I keep learning how to stay OUT of jail, while still enjoying my guns!

I really, REALLY don't understand why those in the CA DOJ/BATFE, etc are concentrating so much on busting people like us, when it would clearly benefit them AND us by cooperating and becoming well acquainted with what in fact is and is not against the law. I would keep from wasting their time (and potential lawsuits from wrongful arrest), and would make us feel better knowing that they are out there looking for the REAL criminals.

I think we all recognize that CA has some of the stupidest regulations and requirements when it comes to guns, most of which really make no sense at all. I would think that if we could all work together, the regulations could be rewritten to take into consideration REAL criminal activities and configurations rather than the silly crap we've come to accept.

The DOJ, etc. should really be giving us MORE of a break considering that we are doing our best to enjoy a sport, take charge of our own protection and not completely RELY on already overworked police force, and still stay within the bounds of law.

Oh well, just my troubled 2 cents...

Paul

[762cavalier]

Yup over 10,000 GVWR are exempt >smog tech over here

Not true. Over 10,000 GVWR just means it doesn't get tested on the Dynamometer. It still gets the old two speed idle test as well as the visual/functional parts of the test and the new evap test that tests the tank for leaks.;)

[paradox]

Not true. Over 10,000 GVWR just means it doesn't get tested on the Dynamometer. It still gets the old two speed idle test as well as the visual/functional parts of the test and the new evap test that tests the tank for leaks.;)

I love CalGuns.

[Sam Hainn]

"beat technical minds" was my fav.

Right on, Kerouac. :cool:

[gazzavc]

WOW Ben that was awesome I haven't heard that word since I last watch "Its a Wonderful Life" Mr Potter in the bank when George is looking for the deposit money that uncle Billy lost when he was attempting to make a deposit.


I thought the word(s) he used were "What have you done with the money you silly old fool ?"

But then again I haven't seen it in years.

Gaz

[SemiAutoSam]

Yes that was the line delivered by Jimmy Stewart to the character uncle Billy after he had come back into the building and loan office.

I meant the line that Mr Potter the old man said after he called George Bailey (Jimmy Stewart) into his office and found out the money Uncle Billy left folded up in the newspaper (he was bragging about the news of Georges brother getting the Congressional medal of honor) came to call when he was

Mr Potter was threatening to call the law and used the term Malfeasance.

I'm into old movies a bit.

I thought the word(s) he used were "What have you done with the money you silly old fool ?"

But then again I haven't seen it in years.

Gaz

[BaronW]

I don't see LEO/DOJ/MIL browsing of the forums as any different from them walking around a gun show. This is a public place, although from what I've seen we're very good at self-policing (telling people who want to break the law to get out of calguns - any idiot can break the law, it's having fun within the law that's the cool trick).

[oaklander]

The issue wasn't just that a LEO was browsing the site. We welcome LEOs and as you know, some of our most valued members are LEOs.

The situation (that I know about) was that a member of the BATFE posted on the forum and posed as a student seeking information. He also tried to get in on at least one group buy. It was the subterfuge that was irksome.

I agree that we certainly do not condone illegal activities, that's why it is so bothersome to me that a law enforcement agency would be interested in this site.

I don't see LEO/DOJ/MIL browsing of the forums as any different from them walking around a gun show. This is a public place, although from what I've seen we're very good at self-policing (telling people who want to break the law to get out of calguns - any idiot can break the law, it's having fun within the law that's the cool trick).

[artherd]

WOW Ben that was awesome I haven't heard that word since I last watch "Its a Wonderful Life" Mr Potter in the bank when George is looking for the deposit money that uncle Billy lost when he was attempting to make a deposit.

Thanks, English is fun! ;)

I've corrected the spelling, that's what I get for posting from a cell phone :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malfeasance

[artherd]

Not true. Over 10,000 GVWR just means it doesn't get tested on the Dynamometer. It still gets the old two speed idle test as well as the visual/functional parts of the test and the new evap test that tests the tank for leaks.;)

Correct, I have a small number vehicles in our fleet that are both gasoline powered AND over 10K GVWR, they have to be smogged like the rest (w/o the dyno requirement.)

Diesel vehicles are smog exempt!

[Addax]

Thanks for the heads up Bill.

I think that this attention Calguns.net is getting from these folks, is just another sign that we are making a noticeable impact in California.

Good for us! :43:

[Stormfeather]

The issue wasn't just that a LEO was browsing the site. We welcome LEOs and as you know, some of our most valued members are LEOs.

The situation (that I know about) was that a member of the BATFE posted on the forum and posed as a student seeking information. He also tried to get in on at least one group buy. It was the subterfuge that was irksome.

I agree that we certainly do not condone illegal activities, that's why it is so bothersome to me that a law enforcement agency would be interested in this site.

Still waiting to see that powerpoint presentation. . . . .

[Soldier415]

Still waiting to see that powerpoint presentation. . . . .

He said it will be ready in TWO WEEKS

[Hunter]

It's more of a crime to buy/import/manufacture/offer for sale/loan a 30 rd mag...

It is perfectly legal to own a 30 rd mag.

Fixed it.
;)

You were so close, but just not quite there on correctness. It is NOT illegal to buy such a mag......to be correct the statement would say
It's more of a crime to import/manufacture/offer for sale/loan a 30 rd mag...

[BaronW]

Well, it'd be pretty rude to trick someone into committing a felony if, for example, someone posted a craigslist ad selling preban magazines even if it isn't illegal to buy them. I wouldn't touch that with a 15m pole.

[50 Freak]

Just a quick reminder, we have some of the best technical minds in the world as members. We know who you are

AHHHH, Artherd...your flattery will get you nowhere. Nice to know I'm appreciated.

[supersonic]

Just about all of us here encourage people to build legal compliance.
We all know that they check this board. Please keep it Legal.

And it's NOT only because we're being watched. It's because we want the best for each other and C.G. as a community. The old saying really is true...."CRIME DOESN'T PAY" Going to jail; lawyer$$$$$$$; future (sometimes lifelong) banishment of certain freedoms.......plus the fact that, IMHO, felons (the ones who actually prey on & get off on hurting innocents) are the scum of the earth, and getting lumped in w/ them for breaking a simple (yes, I know, absolutely ridiculous) law regarding a "pistol grip" , or "a deadly "HIGH-CAPACITY" magazine", or the scourge of society: THE EEEVIL DETACHABLE MAGAZINE MADE MOREEVIL WHEN COMBINED WITH A COP-KILLING FLASHHIDER COUPLED WITH THE MAGAZINE BEING ABLE TO ACCEPT A WHOPPING, BABY-KILLING 30 ROUNDS, INSTEAD OF THE LESS-DEADLY 10 ROUNDS.......(less dead women & children). Friggin' joke, man.....the Ca. firearms laws are a FRIGGIN' J O K E, as ANYONE with 1) a sixth-grade education 2) anyone with even borderline-retarded I.Q., or 3) anyone that has the ability to read damn well knows. The morons who "out-politick"-us are the ones that create such nonsense. Oh, and they also don't even qualify for the above 3 categories, either. Did all the common-sense magically "drift" over to our neighboring states, thereby making them "free?":rofl2:

[daves100]

why does it matter if .mil are on the boards i'm in the military and ready the boards and post from work also.. do not hold that against me...

I don't see LEO/DOJ/MIL browsing of the forums as any different from them walking around a gun show. This is a public place, although from what I've seen we're very good at self-policing (telling people who want to break the law to get out of calguns - any idiot can break the law, it's having fun within the law that's the cool trick).

[RANGER295]

The gov't is playing eye spy on this forum, and yet the feds can't fund their wiretaping activities.:confused:. I don't do anything illegal but the defination seems to be expanding per day, i will use the 5th amendment on some of my activities. Thanks for the reminder. Can the DOJ members put virus on the forum and sneak on our computers to track online activity?

I also wonder about whether they are tracking us and determining our identities. I had a situation where someone approached me and tried to get me to conduct an illegal transaction (sell him a high cap mag). There were several things that bothered me about it. His story just did not add up, he was way too evasive when I asked him why he thought I had this particular mag. The particular mag that he asked for is about as odd ball as it gets. It is something that I am not even sure if there is any legal weapon that shoots it being that it would be a NFA item (I do not have a weapon that shoots uses it, I just picked some up with a WWII collection in the mid to late 1990’s). I said “you need a dummy mag for a display right?” And he insisted that it be functional and unaltered. I told his “That is illegal I do not want to talk about it anymore.” I started to walk off and he tossed out an outrageously high monetary offer which I ignored and kept walking. What bothers me the most, is that I can only think of one person that knows I have that and I feel 100% confident that this guy did not get sent by him. The only other time I have mentioned it was on a post or two on this site. The place that he approached me was odd too being that not many people would know to find me here at this school. I do post sometimes from the computer lab (like I am doing now). I go with a friend sometimes to do displays of WWII weapons and gear but I never tell people my name and they defiantly wouldn’t know to find me at the school. Maybe I am just a little paranoid or have my tinfoil hat on a little tight, but we should all be on guard all the time.

[383green]

So, a complete stranger walks up to you and tries to talk you into conducting an illegal transaction? Pretty strange. If that ever happens to me, I hope I'll have the presence of mind to snap a cell phone picture of them, so that I can share it online in order to warn other law-abiding citizens about them.

[Teletiger7]

If they are really monitoring this site as part of their jobs then that's another perfect example of your tax dollars at work:rolleyes:

[lawnrevenge]

If they are really monitoring this site as part of their jobs then that's another perfect example of your tax dollars at work

If part of their job is to surf Calguns...








I want their job!!!!

[G17GUY]

Is calguns under attack by "the newbs"? :TFH: So many of dim darn folks lately.

[LAK Supply]

I will openly admit the following in public here on CalGuns:

I have several dozen hi-cap magazines that were purchased after the CA ban was enacted.

My AR-15 OLL has a drop-free detachable mag, pistol grip, flash-hider, and collapsible stock.

I have live tracer and incendiary rounds.

I carry a loaded handgun in my personal vehicle everywhere I go, and I don't have a CCW.

I have recently purchased modern firearms (Glock for example) in face-to-face private transactions, no FFL involved, in places like parking lots and private residences. I am not an FFL holder.

Is that a good start for the trolls? :)

[Solidmch]

Is calguns under attack by "the newbs"? :TFH: So many of dim darn folks lately.

i notice that too. Really weird questions.

[Piper]

I will openly admit the following in public here on CalGuns:

I have several dozen hi-cap magazines that were purchased after the CA ban was enacted.

My AR-15 OLL has a drop-free detachable mag, pistol grip, flash-hider, and collapsible stock.

I have live tracer and incendiary rounds.

I carry a loaded handgun in my personal vehicle everywhere I go, and I don't have a CCW.

I have recently purchased modern firearms (Glock for example) in face-to-face private transactions, no FFL involved, in places like parking lots and private residences. I am not an FFL holder.

Is that a good start for the trolls? :)

Those aren't admissions. That's just bragging.

[LAK Supply]

Those aren't admissions. That's just bragging.

If they're new they don't know.... ;)

[Thrillbilly]

I have recently purchased modern firearms (Glock for example) in face-to-face private transactions, no FFL involved, in places like parking lots and private residences. I am not an FFL holder.

Is that a good start for the trolls? :)

Isn’t NICS a check cashing place. :confused: :D ;)

[supersonic]

Ranger,

they keep working their area even if it will not have any great effect on the overall crime rate, or real violent crime.



I think THIS is a little closer to reality:
they keep working their area even if it will not have any great effect on ANYTHING WHATSOEVER. PERIOD.

[tombinghamthegreat]

I think i have LE trolls on my myspace profile, my profile is full of guns, RP, militia members, nra members, super progun people. I seems to get wierd responses from a few like people trying to offer money for guns. Or trying to advise me to buy AKs and bury them in the hills. I guess having links to sites on how to manufacture homemade explosives/guns ect. is not the best idea. Also me puting that i want to start a militia is a red flag. Regardless, i inform the people who sent the messages that i do not sell guns or violating any laws, just try to promote the 2nd amendment and other politicial stuff. That ended the wierd "attempts" but i am sure i am still on radar.

[Addax]

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc137/addax/sauron.jpg

[tiki]

Excellent advise.. Has there been any confirmed sittings here in Cal Guns?

I'm sitting right now. :)

[lawnrevenge]

I will openly admit the following in public here on CalGuns:

I have several dozen hi-cap magazines that were purchased after the CA ban was enacted.

My AR-15 OLL has a drop-free detachable mag, pistol grip, flash-hider, and collapsible stock.

I have live tracer and incendiary rounds.

I carry a loaded handgun in my personal vehicle everywhere I go, and I don't have a CCW.

I have recently purchased modern firearms (Glock for example) in face-to-face private transactions, no FFL involved, in places like parking lots and private residences. I am not an FFL holder.

Is that a good start for the trolls? :)

Quit bragging...
Some day, some day...

[Ford8N]

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc137/addax/sauron.jpg



:King:


:smilielol5:

[liketoshoot]

After having read all the posts in this thread, I feel that at anytime you think you have a troll, you should contact the DOJ, ATF or who ever and tell them you are suspicious about that person and let them deal with it or just ignore them.
If someone is looking for "how to build..........." just tell them to search the internet it's all over the place.
Do not agree to do anything that is not 100% legal.
There is a lot that is legal so we will be able to continue as we have nothing to hide.
Know the rules of purchase for what it is that you are buying/selling make anyone you are not sure of do the deal thru a FFL person at a bussiness location. Protect yourself this way and the trolls can not bother you.
I'm sure I missed somethings but you guys can fill in what is missing.

[RANGER295]

Ranger,

I've heard it said that there is no such thing as a coincidence. That is just too many things lined up to be one. What total BS behavoir when there are sex offenders galore in CA, meth cookng madness, hundreds of thousands of gang members, and a boatload of crooks in the capitol.

This is just another "benifit" of a large government bureaucracy that has budgets and staff dedicated to things that should be low priority, but since they have the budget and staff, they keep working their area even if it will not have any great effect on the overall crime rate, or real violent crime.

I hope the LEOs monitoring this board will realize this and work to change the system from the inside. We are not your problem. We are not breaking the law. We are doing everything we can to comply with the strange CA laws that exist here and no where else. We have to be super educated about everything we buy because things anyone can by in our borer states of NV, AZ or OR, or from the catalogs sent to free states are somehow banned here. We are not gangbanger meth cooking murders and theives. We are working productive members of society that just enjoy guns. We are not looking to break laws or do harm. Please make your superios understand this, or at least, gum up the works a little to keep their faciest agenda from progressing.

And in closing, it really saddens me that this post will probably put me on some sort of watch list, just becuase I like a legal pursit and don't want to be treated like a criminal.:TFH:

God bless America because we need it!

I agree with your whole post. I do not believe in coincidences either and this is no exception. I am not sure what to attribute it to but something smells like fish. My main reason for sharing it is to remind people not to do illegal transaction regardless of how tempting it is. You never know who is watching. For all I know it could have been because of someone who observed me in the school computer lab and complained (on a side note, I bought a rifle on GunBroker from the computer lab yesterday:D). Anyway, you never know who is a “spy” so to speak. Always conduct yourself as if you are being watched, not just when you are online.

[LAK Supply]

Quit bragging...
Some day, some day...

Sorry... :o ..... It just slips out once in a while.... :)

[AJAX22]

.... offer money for guns. Or trying to advise me to buy AKs and bury them in the hills. ......

Heh,

I offer people money for guns all the time..... Anyone have a cheap project that they don't want anymore? drop me a P.M. ;) (all laws will be observed during the transaction)


And I've continuously spouted off about how everyone needs to put at least one gun in the ground for every dozen in their safe...

Nothing Illegal about that... just don't break any laws.

Being law abiding doesn't mean you have to get down on all fours and bleat like an ewe. ;)

[lawnrevenge]

Ajax22,
thanks for the new sig line.

[RP1911]

LOL...

FWIW, I don't like to use thw term law abiding. Rather use law upholding.

To me law abiding means you are a subject of the system rather than a participant.

[Salty]

As a newer member, I just thought I'd say that I thought the whole purpose of CalGuns was to help prevent people from unknowingly making choices which are illegal while exercising and fighting for our second amendment rights. Lets face it, the laws are confusing to the lay-person and sometimes we need a little help figuring them out. Especially considering all of the misinformation out there on the streets regarding firearms. The board has never come across to me as a place in which illegal activities are talked about, or done. Furthermore, criminals wouldn't give a damn wether they were breaking the law or not and wouldn't bother to check a message board. I just don't understand where this idea that CalGuns is a forum for illegal guns comes from. At the same time, the general public thinks that hollow points have been illegal since the early 90's and would look at a fixed mag AR-15 and think it was a machine gun.

[DrjonesUSA]

As a newer member, I just thought I'd say that I thought the whole purpose of CalGuns was to help prevent people from unknowingly making choices which are illegal while exercising and fighting for our second amendment rights. Lets face it, the laws are confusing to the lay-person and sometimes we need a little help figuring them out. Especially considering all of the misinformation out there on the streets regarding firearms. The board has never come across to me as a place in which illegal activities are talked about, or done. Furthermore, criminals wouldn't give a damn wether they were breaking the law or not and wouldn't bother to check a message board. I just don't understand where this idea that CalGuns is a forum for illegal guns comes from. At the same time, the general public thinks that hallow points have been illegal since the early 90's and would look at a fixed mag AR-15 and think it was a machine gun.



I do not think you are understanding the issue.

It has been well known for some time that various CA government agencies, particularly the DOJ, have been monitoring this board.

More recently, it has come to light that they have begun posting here and attempting to entrap members into discussing illegal activities.

You are right that the vast, vast majority of legitimate Calgunners work extremely hard to stay within the law, as we are by definition law-abiding American citizens.

To any government agency that might be reading this for the purposes of monitoring the activities of law-abiding citizens or attempting to entrap us:

Your masters are proud. How does it feel to be part of a long line of tyrants, despots, and thugs like Adolf Hitler, Stalin, Lenin, Pol Pot, and Saddam Hussein?

How dare you operate under the color of law, using our own tax dollars to attempt to turn us into criminals for doing nothing worse than attempting to exercise our God-given, Constitutionally protected Second Amendment rights.

You are sick.

[pnkssbtz]

As a newer member, I just thought I'd say that I thought the whole purpose of CalGuns was to help prevent people from unknowingly making choices which are illegal while exercising and fighting for our second amendment rights. Lets face it, the laws are confusing to the lay-person and sometimes we need a little help figuring them out. Especially considering all of the misinformation out there on the streets regarding firearms.
Being articulate and asking questions is perfectly acceptable. But let me show you an example of what is not acceptable, as it raises alarms:

how 2 legalize assault rifles in CA????!!!??

i have been going to to the local shooting range and watching some guy with a m4a1 and a AK shooting, everytime someone gets near him he starts acting like he is important to talk to anyone....so can anyone tell me how it is done to have a legal assault rifle?becuase i have always loved going tothe range now i probably can buy my own rifle!
Now, this is pretty close to a REAL post someone made on another board I read. I am not making up the title.

Notice the words in red? Those should be sending off the alarms in your head.

However, as other's have said, it is best to approach posts like this with patience, because I'd rather chance on the possibility of someone genuinely asking for clarification vs. suspecting everyone new as to being DoJ jerks trying to bait us.

[AKman]

As a newer member, I just thought I'd say that I thought the whole purpose of CalGuns was to help prevent people from unknowingly making choices which are illegal while exercising and fighting for our second amendment rights. Lets face it, the laws are confusing to the lay-person and sometimes we need a little help figuring them out. Especially considering all of the misinformation out there on the streets regarding firearms. The board has never come across to me as a place in which illegal activities are talked about, or done. Furthermore, criminals wouldn't give a damn wether they were breaking the law or not and wouldn't bother to check a message board. I just don't understand where this idea that CalGuns is a forum for illegal guns comes from. At the same time, the general public thinks that hallow points have been illegal since the early 90's and would look at a fixed mag AR-15 and think it was a machine gun.

"Hallow points" are protected by the First Amendment and cannot be regulated in any way or form. Any law regulating "hallow points" would be a clear violation of the First Amendment freedom of religion provisions. So if I want to bless my ammo and make it sacred, I am free to do so.

At this time hollow points are quite legal as well. I may go home and bless some this evening so I can have some hallow hollow points. Then I'll really be prepared for a homie invasion robbery.

[phobos512]

I think I saw this mentioned earlier in the thread but this kind of attention just means that we are perceived potentially as a place people can go to learn what they are allowed to do with the "rights" they've been granted. It's best not to have an informed populace, you know?

Definitely agree with the sentiments on keeping it legal, I've been seeing a bit of the weird posts lately, though I admittedly haven't been on much, too busy with work. I recall seeing a couple of posts along the line of "what do I do in this illegal situation, 'were it to happen' ".

Stay Vigilant!

(And I will say that yes, I do in fact post from a .MIL from time to time...I do afterall have to find *something* to do during my lunch hour :D )

[Salty]

"Hallow points" are protected by the First Amendment and cannot be regulated in any way or form. Any law regulating "hallow points" would be a clear violation of the First Amendment freedom of religion provisions. So if I want to bless my ammo and make it sacred, I am free to do so.

At this time hollow points are quite legal as well. I may go home and bless some this evening so I can have some hallow hollow points. Then I'll really be prepared for a homie invasion robbery.

Eh.. sorry, late night spelling error. ;)

[Salty]

I do not think you are understanding the issue.

It has been well known for some time that various CA government agencies, particularly the DOJ, have been monitoring this board.

More recently, it has come to light that they have begun posting here and attempting to entrap members into discussing illegal activities.

You are right that the vast, vast majority of legitimate Calgunners work extremely hard to stay within the law, as we are by definition law-abiding American citizens.

To any government agency that might be reading this for the purposes of monitoring the activities of law-abiding citizens or attempting to entrap us:

Your masters are proud. How does it feel to be part of a long line of tyrants, despots, and thugs like Adolf Hitler, Stalin, Lenin, Pol Pot, and Saddam Hussein?

How dare you operate under the color of law, using our own tax dollars to attempt to turn us into criminals for doing nothing worse than attempting to exercise our God-given, Constitutionally protected Second Amendment rights.

You are sick.

No, I understand that they monitor the site, and I understand why. I just don't understand how CalGuns aquired an ill reputation.

[Riodog]

Not arguing with you about anything said. That being said isn't the discussion of illegal activity protected by the 1A? I'm not saying I want to, just currious as to why there would be worry about talking about it when there are websites that show everything to machine gun blue prints to detailed instructions showing explosives recipes? Is there some finer point to the law I'm missing or is it something else? I'm not trying to argue just trying tofigure this out.

Cartman, I've wondered about that same point. The internet is a totally uncensored information highway. I would think that the gestapo would have better things to do than just prying into a group of peep's public conversations.

INMO the media expose more information that is damaging to our nation than a bunch of guy's that like to shoot targets and tincans.

INMO the gov't has gotten too big and intrusive. This country was founded so people could pursue their own personal beliefs, interests and lifestyles without due intrusion by gov't. We've now become 'subjugated by the gov't that was supposed to be of the people, by the people and FOR the people. We are being dictated to by every gov't entity who's purpose was supposed to be a 'support system' for us but has been bastardized into many small dictatorships that prey on us.

Every one of our rights and freedoms under the BOR's and the constitution has been subjected to the whims and interpretations of whoever is in power in the state that we each live in. I find that basically I could live with the dictates of the Federal Gov't but am getting to the breaking point when it comes to this state. I do advocate an entire revamping of the election process, term limits, the supreme courts of both, state and federal. I don't honestly believe that what we are subjected to by what our gov't has turned out to be is what our forefathers envisioned.

Rio

[oaklander]

No, I understand that they monitor the site, and I understand why. I just don't understand how CalGuns aquired an ill reputation.

Calguns DOES NOT have an ill reputation. We have lawyers, LE personnel, business people, MIL people and just about every other type of person posting on this board.

I for one, would not be here if this board had a bad reputation. I am a lawyer, and could lose my bar license should I get involved in anything not 100 percent legal.

People come here because they want to be legal. From time to time, there are questionable posts, but those are the exception, and most likely they are troll posts to begin with.

CalGuns has an excellent reputation among people "in the know" about California gun laws and gun politics.

[KenpoProfessor]

I will openly admit the following in public here on CalGuns:

OK, so will I:D

I have several dozen hi-cap magazines that were purchased after the CA ban was enacted.

Ditto, and more than a few dozen.




My AR-15 OLL has a drop-free detachable mag, pistol grip, flash-hider, and collapsible stock.

I have listed CA AW's, 5 as a matter of fact, none are registered.



I have live tracer and incendiary rounds.


None of that for me, too expensive


I carry a loaded handgun in my personal vehicle everywhere I go, and I don't have a CCW.

I carry a handgun almost everywhere I go, openly and concealed (I have a CCW).




I have recently purchased modern firearms (Glock for example) in face-to-face private transactions, no FFL involved, in places like parking lots and private residences. I am not an FFL holder.

Bought and sold.



Is that a good start for the trolls? :)

They need a push ;) Oh yea, they can track my IP all they want.

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde

[Hopi]

CalGuns has an excellent reputation among people "in the know" about California gun laws and gun politics.

This forum has become a very succesful "think tank", utilized by those in need, and feared by those that oppose us.........at this point, I can barely make out IGGY and Allison in our rear-view mirror

[AKman]

Eh.. sorry, late night spelling error. ;)

Just kidding. Spelling happens.

[Outlaw Josey Wales]

To any government agency that might be reading this for the purposes of monitoring the activities of law-abiding citizens or attempting to entrap us:

Your masters are proud. How does it feel to be part of a long line of tyrants, despots, and thugs like Adolf Hitler, Stalin, Lenin, Pol Pot, and Saddam Hussein?

How dare you operate under the color of law, using our own tax dollars to attempt to turn us into criminals for doing nothing worse than attempting to exercise our God-given, Constitutionally protected Second Amendment rights.

You are sick.

DrjonesUSA, You are my hero......

[DrjonesUSA]

No, I understand that they monitor the site, and I understand why. I just don't understand how CalGuns aquired an ill reputation.



An ill reputation in whose opinion?

It's not that the .gov doesn't LIKE calguns - they clearly love us because they like to hang out here and try to entrap us!

[DrjonesUSA]

DrjonesUSA, You are my hero......


Thanks!

Remember me when I run for office!!!

[Outlaw Josey Wales]

Ten Bears: These things you say we will have, we already have.
Josey Wales: That's true. I ain't promising you nothing extra. I'm just giving you life and you're giving me life. And I'm saying that men can live together without butchering one another.
Ten Bears: It's sad that governments are chiefed by the double tongues. There is iron in your words of death for all Comanche to see, and so there is iron in your words of life. No signed paper can hold the iron. It must come from men. The words of Ten Bears carries the same iron of life and death. It is good that warriors such as we meet in the struggle of life... or death. It shall be life.

[Sniper3142]

To any government agency that might be reading this for the purposes of monitoring the activities of law-abiding citizens or attempting to entrap us:

Your masters are proud. How does it feel to be part of a long line of tyrants, despots, and thugs like Adolf Hitler, Stalin, Lenin, Pol Pot, and Saddam Hussein?

How dare you operate under the color of law, using our own tax dollars to attempt to turn us into criminals for doing nothing worse than attempting to exercise our God-given, Constitutionally protected Second Amendment rights.

You are sick.


BRAVO!!

Well said DrjonesUSA!

And to those same would be despots, tyrants, and villians...

A big K.M.B.H.B.A. to all of you! :)

[J_Rock]

Hey guys the Calguns party van is here!!!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/38/Fbi_mobile_command_center.jpg

[Soldier415]

That ladies butt looks like a sack stuffed full of nickels

[TKM]

Yes, but they're tactical nickels.

[SecondAmendmentgirl]

Life must be sweet if you're an undocumented worker, living in a sanctuary city...ah San Francisco you vote to ban guns while fighting for non-US citizens rights to smoke a J and have public sex wearing a SFPD uniform at the Folsome Fair. Good to know you have your priorities right ;)

Sad but true. It's more of a crime to own a 30 rd mag then to smoke some weed. BTW our great leader lol plans to release over 22,000 prisioners due to budget issues lol oh my goodness 22,000 criminals on the streets of california I've seen Lock Up enough to know that jail doesn't make a person better.

On a more serious note I do notice some on this site lately that sound like LE/DOJ asking some stupid question.

I believe their goal is to prove that calguns promote illegal "stuff" and they can somehow try to shut calguns down. I don't know about others but the only reason I knew about OLL california legal rifle is due to a fellow californian pointing me to this site.