CA AW ban and 5th amendment

[KenpoProfessor]

As a result of Haynes v. US, 390 U.S. 85 (1968), a criminal cannot be convicted for failure to register a firearm because to do so would represent a violation of the criminal's Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination.

To quote the decision...

"...A proper claim of the privilege against self-incrimination provides a full defense to prosecutions either for failure to register under sec. 5841 or for possession of an unregistered firearm under sec. 5851..."

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/haynes_v_us.txt

http://www.nrawinningteam.com/confiscation/haynesvus.html

The way I'm reading this is, if you have an unregistered AW in CA, then it's illegal to prosecute you. Is this about right?

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde

[bwiese]

A vague recollection is that this stuff is applicable for felons doing paperwork when buying guns, because the act of doing the paperwork would be the gov't forcing confession of 'felon-in-possession'.

I don't think this is applicable to someone who had an AW and didn't register it at the right time because the 'boundary conditions' are a bit different.

Also this is Fed law, whereas CA AW laws, etc. are state.

[383green]

I think this only applies to people who are prohibited from owning firearms, since by registering a firearms they would be admitting to the crime of possessing a firearm that they're not allowed to register. Since us law-abiding types don't have the opportunity to register new AWs, anyway, I don't think this applies to us.

But I could be completely wrong.

[KenpoProfessor]

A vague recollection is that this stuff is applicable for felons doing paperwork when buying guns, because the act of doing the paperwork would be the gov't forcing confession of 'felon-in-possession'.

I don't think this is applicable to someone who had an AW and didn't register it at the right time because the 'boundary conditions' are a bit different.

Also this is Fed law, whereas CA AW laws, etc. are state.


Yea, this was a case (a brilliant strategy I might add) of a felon who had a SBS. At the time, registration was required and he could not register it even though he possessed it. A catch 22.

But, my question would be, if you had/have a CA Banned AW prior to the ban, but didn't register it, you are an automatic felon if it's in your possession. If found, there is still no way to register as it would be incriminating. Doesn't SCOTUS rank state?

Whatdya think?

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde

[hoffmang]

This doesn't apply to AWCA prosecutions because you can't register anymore. You'd be charged with possession of an unregistered - not failure to register.

It might get you off if you owned it before the ban and didn't register, but it would be a novel defense in California. Also, in that case you're more likely to take advantage of 2728's infraction/surrender provisions.

-Gene

[anothergunnut]

As a felon you could get off the registration requirement. You would still be a felon in possession so would be convicted of that. So you would trade one felony for a different felony.