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jdberger
01-10-2008, 11:19 AM
Last night I was walking to my kid's school for a PTA meeting around 6:50PM. It was dark, but the walk is pretty routine for me and close so it's no big deal.

Anyway, I hear from behind me, "Hey, you got a cig?". I turned around and there were three people in hooded jackets walking about 20 yards behind me. I responded, "No" and kept walking - but now I was paying a little more attention.

I could hear the guys talking kinda loudly, joking and such, and it seemed like they were gaining on me though I was keeping a pretty good pace. But I'm a pretty good sized guy, not (too old) and I don't project a "victim" aura so I wasn't too concerned.

I crossed the street to the parallel sidewalk and turned right.

So did they.

I was starting to get a little concerned at that point. It's unusual to see three hooded (thuggish) youths in my neighborhood, much less at night. I was cursing myself for not bringing my Surefire light (which I ALWAYS take with me when I go out at night) and I was irritated that I was wearing gloves that would make it difficult to get to my EDC knife. I thought of taking them off, but decided that if there was a scuffle, that my hands were better protected and that I'd be able to hit harder with the gloves on.

Another 50 yards and I realized that they were still gaining on me so I stepped off the sidewalk into a well lit driveway to let them pass (and so I could keep a better eye on them).

Tall guy was already in the process of going into the street to get in front of me. Medium guy was lagging behind and Short guy pulled up next to me (about 10 feet away) and asked, "You got a problem?". Though I had suspicions before, now I was 90% sure that they were setting me up.

I smiled and just replied that they were walking faster than me and that I thought that I'd let them pass.

Then Tall guy hit me in the head above the right ear. BING! I staggered a little but stayed on my feet as the three rushed me. They were grabbing at me and throwing punches that weren't connecting - I was alternately pushing them away and grabbing at them, trying to keep them bunched up. And I was cursing - at the top of my lungs (mostly things about their relations with their mother and what pussies they were). And I was also backing up toward the modded Prelude in the well lit driveway.

I slammed my body and my fist into the trunk/whale tail of the Prelude to set off the car alarm. They all let go of me.

Short and Medium guy took off down the street running. Tall guy stood there looking at me and started to lift up the front of his jacket. I lowered myself to charge him. I didn't see anything in his waistband, but I wasn't sure. I was still yelling (trying to get someone to come out of their house).

Tall guy's buddies were still running and calling for him so he took off and then I saw that there were 4 guys, not three.

I stood in the driveway for a minute and saw the guy in the house look out his kitchen window and turn off the car alarm. I waved at him as to say, "Sorry for hitting your car" but he just looked past me (Kitty Genovese, anyone?).

Then I finished walking to the PTA meeting.

The blow I took to the head wasn't that bad, the hat I was wearing seemed to absorb most of it. I had a pretty good adrenaline dump, but figured that going home would take me in the same direction that my assailants went, so my best option was to continue on to the school.

Going home, I walked along a busier and well lit street. Then I called the cops and a couple of hours later then sent an officer to take a report.

He told me that it was probably a failed robbery and next time to call right away....

Lessons learned:


Carry a flashlight. A good 80 lumen blip would have affected their night vision, it also would have made them easier to identify later. Finally, it makes a good "fist load".
If I'm going to carry a knife for self defense (and opening boxes), it's useless unless I can get to it. Having it clipped to my pocket is handy, but in the scuffle, I wasn't able to access it.
Learn to manipulate the EDC with gloves on - or don't wear gloves.
Call the cops immediately.
Be a little more pro-active in calling the cops on suspicious people in my neighborhood.


Interestingly, I don't think a CCW would have helped in this situation vary much. The whole event went from Yellow to Red so quickly, I wouldn't have had time to employ a handgun. OC would have been a better choice. I can carry it openly in my hand without people freaking out. I'm buying some today. Anyone have recommendations?

All in all, an interesting learning experience. I'm not going to stop walking in my neighborhood. I'm going to still go out and I'm going to still go out at night. I'm just going to try to be a little more aware of my surroundings and a little more prepared.

USN CHIEF
01-10-2008, 11:24 AM
You lucky guy... Good to hear that everything is O.k with you..

chickenfried
01-10-2008, 11:31 AM
Wow glad it turned out all right. Sounds like you handled it pretty well. What was your reason for not calling the police right away?

vandal
01-10-2008, 11:32 AM
Location?

When he started to lift up his jacket -- that's the time to take him out or at least get off the X. There is nothing good for you under there.

Hopi
01-10-2008, 11:32 AM
Glad to hear that nobody was seriously hurt and great job defending yourself!! Where do you live?

JamesY
01-10-2008, 11:32 AM
Good to hear nothing happened. I hate those types of people. Too bad you couldn't knock them all out and have the cops wake them up in their cruisers. Smart idea of getting the car alarm to ring out. if it wasn't for that, who knows what could have happened.

outersquare
01-10-2008, 11:33 AM
where did this happen

jdberger
01-10-2008, 11:35 AM
This all happened in San Leandro (Wash Manor).

Black Majik
01-10-2008, 11:35 AM
Wow pretty intense story. Glad to hear you came out ok.

jdberger
01-10-2008, 11:36 AM
Location?

When he started to lift up his jacket -- that's the time to take him out or at least get off the X. There is nothing good for you under there.

True... but the whole thing, start to finish was about 8 seconds.

outersquare
01-10-2008, 11:44 AM
i have to say, everyone should be aware, the "victim projection" thing i think is a partial myth.

I was jumped and then carjacked in a parking lot by a scrawny punk kid maybe 4 inches smaller than me, sunday afternoon in a suburb shopping center. The whole thing was really dirty, apparently it can happen anywhere to anyone.

Soldier415
01-10-2008, 11:44 AM
Damn JD, glad to hear you are OK.

Good thinking on making as much noise as possible and setting off the car alarm.

Being able to recognize those JDLR (Just Don't Look Right) situations is a good trait to have.

bwiese
01-10-2008, 11:46 AM
Glad you're still amongst the vertical.

Similar thing happened to my dad in 1969 in San Diego, but went further downhill...

He was asked the time, then hauled at knifepoint into the bushes adjoining a building by 3 guys. He was whacked on the back of his neck and had a sore neck for 2 weeks. [Which was already not good from his airplane crash a decade earlier.]

THIS WAS ~100FT FROM A SD POLICE STATION IN GOOD AREA.

He was held in the bushes for ~1hr - the muggers were worried he was a cop/decoy given my dad's haircut, demeanor, etc. He lost $120 or so (lotta money back then), but the muggers were smart enough not to take his watch.

I think pops had a 7.62 PPK (wish he hadn't sold it!) in trunk of rental car, but he'd decided to just walk somewhere for a quick errand - coffee, smokes, whatever...

The SD cops were quitet embarassed/apologetic when he reported it.

Pops flew back that day (he worked for Cessna). Came home, found out his dad died about the same time he was being mugged. That wasn't a good day.

liketoshoot
01-10-2008, 11:51 AM
As I don't have a CCW at this time I do carry a Pepper spray. I insist that my wife does also even though she complains about the space it takes in her purse.
I like the "RED PEPPER SPRAY" in a .68oz size, it clips on my pocket for easy access.
Another good one is Kimber LifeAct Guardian Angel this shoots out further for those standing in the back of the group.

SunriseF150
01-10-2008, 11:56 AM
Glad your ok. Maybe you should have pulled your knife out when you noticed they were following you. That way it would be in your hand and ready in case something went down like it did. Of course you don't want them noticing it in your hand. And hopefully you don't have to use it. But 4 on 1, I think it's a fair trade. I use a 5 D-Cell Maglite if I'm in need of some light in certain places that aren't so great, as well as my knife that I carry clipped onto my pocket.

Two Shots
01-10-2008, 12:04 PM
Glad you were not hurt by these a**wipes. i know the area you were in and I'm disgusted no one called the cops or came out from thier nice cozy homes to help. Pepper spray would have been useful as long as you have a little distance (Spray back) so you don't get affected and keeping in your hand is the only way to do it if you feel something is going on. If you do a lot of walking how about a walking stick?

However, the state of California does have a few rules and regulations regarding the use of pepper spray. It is absolutely legal to carry pepper spray and use it to protect your personal safety without having any special state or federal permits. CA laws do regulate the size and/or weight of the defense spray products you can carry and buy. The legal container size must be equal to or below 2.5 ounces of active product. There are many pepper spray items and models that comply with this state set standard (see list below).
http://www.pepper-spray-store.com/relatedinfo/california-laws.shtml

oaklander
01-10-2008, 12:07 PM
Jeez!

Glad you're OK!

ko1featherweigh
01-10-2008, 12:12 PM
glad to hear your ok
i was almost jumped once when i was in high school but thankfully my friends heard about it and all came to my rescue.

As I don't have a CCW at this time I do carry a Pepper spray. I insist that my wife does also even though she complains about the space it takes in her purse.
I like the "RED PEPPER SPRAY" in a .68oz size, it clips on my pocket for easy access.
Another good one is Kimber LifeAct Guardian Angel this shoots out further for those standing in the back of the group.

my girlfriend didn't want to carry the normal black/yellow/red pepper spray bottles. so i got her one from big5 that was pink :rolleyes: but she carries it now ,mainly when she goes to school at night.

hoffmang
01-10-2008, 12:16 PM
JD,

Holy S**T. I'm really glad you're ok.

-Gene

BB63Squid
01-10-2008, 12:18 PM
JD,

Glad to hear you came out of this in one piece. Also glad, once I re-read your post, that you didn't have a kid with you (PTA meeting).

Sounds as if you were pretty aware of your surroundings (lighted driveway) and the fact that you noticed their closing speed and DOT.

One suggestion is a spring assist blade. Those tend to be easier to work with gloves on.

Whenever I feel I am in a position to get jacked (usually at night walking my dog) I will at the minimum make sure my blade is not masked by my cell. If it feels really fishy I will hold the secured blade in my hand which makes it almost as useful as a roll of quarters in your fist.

BTW...brilliant move smacking the car to activate the alarm. I never would have thought of that.

Waingro
01-10-2008, 12:37 PM
I always worry about AIDS, say they are bleeding and hit me when I am bleeding it could end up they could give me AIDS. Scary stuff. Good thing you are okay, bunch of thugs. And whats up with, "Hey you got a cigarette?" - someone tried to rob me that way too, only they were close - I was assuming they were trying to distract me enough to hit me (or as I later learned pull a knife on me and drop it)

jdberger
01-10-2008, 12:39 PM
One suggestion is a spring assist blade. Those tend to be easier to work with gloves on.



I was thinking about that, too. The thumbstud on the one I have is still a little small. As I don't EDC that one, I'd probably fumble with it. I guess that I'll have to work on my muscle memory...

I'm actually thinking about a fixed blade for tooling around the neighborhood.

Re: Pepper Spray....there are a lot of different manufacturers. I'm a bit of a gear whore, so I like to get the best....

Anyone have opinions on:


Fox Labs Mean Green
Spitfire
ASP Key/Palm Defender
Sabre
Other brands?

outersquare
01-10-2008, 12:41 PM
I always worry about AIDS, say they are bleeding and hit me when I am bleeding it could end up they could give me AIDS. Scary stuff. Good thing you are okay, bunch of thugs. And whats up with, "Hey you got a cigarette?" - someone tried to rob me that way too, only they were close - I was assuming they were trying to distract me enough to hit me (or as I later learned pull a knife on me and drop it)

Not only HIV but hepatitis also.

OutlawDon
01-10-2008, 12:50 PM
Damn, man, you sound pretty cool after what happened. How big are you....height/weight? How about these guys?

Once you felt a threat during the walk, did you think about having the knife ready in hand just in case?

If it were me, I'd start thinking about carrying more than just a flashlight and a knife if something like that happened to me.

Glad you are ok...could have turned out a lot worst if they had weapons.

Bishop
01-10-2008, 2:34 PM
I've discreetly drawn my knife (unopened) in JDLR situations to keep it ready. If you are in arms reach, it's probably too late to draw your knife. My flashlight spends a lot of time in my left hand when walking at night.

Good to hear you're ok. Good thinking with the well-lit driveway and the car alarm.

1911_sfca
01-10-2008, 2:43 PM
Wow, sorry to hear this and very glad you're OK.

Pepper spray and flashlight would be great things to carry in this situation. Be careful about drawing a knife when confronting 4 people -- you may be committing yourself to something you don't want to get into.

In the future, when you cross the street and turn a corner and they're still after you, a quick call to 911 will be in order. Just tell them there is a suspicious group following you and you're afraid they are about to attack you, and give your location, and clothing descriptions of you and the others. That should get someone to you quickly.

Anyone have opinions on:

ASP Key/Palm Defender


I wouldn't recommend a device like this. Keep your pepper spray and impact weapons separate. Otherwise you can start running into 12020 issues. A phone, a hefty flashlight and a reasonably good size cannister of pepper spray are what I would recommend.

Red_5
01-10-2008, 3:12 PM
Glad you came out in good shape.

Good job staying alive. Sounds like you kept your head and came out in good shape considering the situation. It could have gone far worse.

rivviepop
01-10-2008, 3:18 PM
Glad you're OK man, I've been mugged at gunpoint and can sympathize - it's no joy ride.

re: OC: Mace brand Triple Action (Pepper, Mace & UV dye), it's what they sell here to all the PD and is pushed as being the best of them all by many people I trust. I buy them frequently and hand out to friends and strangers alike (handed the one out of my pocket to a girl at the busstop last week who was getting harassed, even).

http://www.homesecuritystore.com/pepper_spray_mace.html

I carry the 18gram model at all times.

odesskiy
01-10-2008, 3:26 PM
I was thinking about that, too. The thumbstud on the one I have is still a little small. As I don't EDC that one, I'd probably fumble with it. I guess that I'll have to work on my muscle memory...

I'm actually thinking about a fixed blade for tooling around the neighborhood.

Re: Pepper Spray....there are a lot of different manufacturers. I'm a bit of a gear whore, so I like to get the best....

Anyone have opinions on:


Fox Labs Mean Green
Spitfire
ASP Key/Palm Defender
Sabre
Other brands?


Look at Kershaw Boa (one of my favorite knives to carry). You don't have to use the stud, so gloves would not prevent you from deploying the knife quickly. It is still an assisted opener, not an automatic, so there's nothing illegal about it.

On a different note, I'm glad that you handled yourself so well and lived to tell the story. Stories like this (or the woman assaulted on the train in Utah) make me realize more and more that we live among sheep that will not lift a finger to help you even if you are in grave danger. It's up to us to make sure that we are always prepared and equipped to fight off predators without relying on any help - day or night, remote deserted area or crowded street.

Ironchef
01-10-2008, 3:28 PM
A neighbor and I thwarted a home invasion to his house (i live above his condo) in our crappy neighborhood. 4 BMAs had been trying to kick in his gate (built into the corner of his fence) and took off when he ran out onto his patio and I looked out my lit window down at them. We called the police so they could do their typical...nothing. Anyway, 30 minutes later after the PD is gone, same 4 BMAs are kicking down his fence and enter his patio.. I ran out on my patio with my search and rescue light and light them up, start yelling and telling them the PD is coming, and I hear what I think is my neighbor fighting with someone at the sliding back door. Well, they realized the noise and light was too much, or that they were busted..and boogied outta there. Cops came again and did their thing..blah blah blah...lamers.

Anyway, you did good JD making noise and being in the lights. No neighbors could have heard me since I"m right on Highway 4 and our condos are tucked away in the corner of the complex with many escape routes. We just keep our firearms handy every night and plan to call each other. I have things on my balcony to throw at them..thinking of getting a boat horn.

My wife has her pepper spray I make her carry..even if just to the car in our parking lot..we have another can in the car, and i have one for myself. Thinking of getting a fixed blade knife but i doubt it's legal to carry.

Living in Antioch has made paranoid psychos out of my wife and I (being burglarized last year didn't help either). We know that noise and lights are good. Think I'll start wearing a whistle around my neck! lol

ghost
01-10-2008, 3:29 PM
its good to hear that youre ok jd and nothing serious happened to you,damn kids these days:mad:

odesskiy
01-10-2008, 3:30 PM
A neighbor and I thwarted a home invasion to his house (i live above his condo) in our crappy neighborhood. 4 BMAs had been trying to kick in his gate (built into the corner of his fence) and took off when he ran out onto his patio and I looked out my lit window down at them. We called the police so they could do their typical...nothing. Anyway, 30 minutes later after the PD is gone, same 4 BMAs are kicking down his fence and enter his patio.. I ran out on my patio with my search and rescue light and light them up, start yelling and telling them the PD is coming, and I hear what I think is my neighbor fighting with someone at the sliding back door. Well, they realized the noise and light was too much, or that they were busted..and boogied outta there. Cops came again and did their thing..blah blah blah...lamers.

Anyway, you did good JD making noise and being in the lights. No neighbors could have heard me since I"m right on Highway 4 and our condos are tucked away in the corner of the complex with many escape routes. We just keep our firearms handy every night and plan to call each other. I have things on my balcony to throw at them..thinking of getting a boat horn.

My wife has her pepper spray I make her carry..even if just to the car in our parking lot..we have another can in the car, and i have one for myself. Thinking of getting a fixed blade knife but i doubt it's legal to carry.

Living in Antioch has made paranoid psychos out of my wife and I (being burglarized last year didn't help either). We know that noise and lights are good. Think I'll start wearing a whistle around my neck! lol

AFAIK there's nothing illegal about a fixed blade knife (with no length restrictions) as long as you openly carry it on your belt.

aplinker
01-10-2008, 3:36 PM
I'm really glad you're OK.

This:

Surefire Defender or any Surefire with a GG&G bezel and any Benchmade with Axis-Lock (bigger the better) or an Emerson.


http://www.surefire.com/surefire/content/e2d_large2.jpg + http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/bestmemory_1980_30624768

Ironchef
01-10-2008, 3:36 PM
Thanks, i was going to make a thread some time to ask about knives. i'd love a nice ka-bar or something more discreet.

bluestaterebel
01-10-2008, 3:49 PM
thanks for sharing your experience with us, well written. quick thinking about the car alarm and screaming helped.fighting back was key. alot of these cowards never expect their victims to fight back. i always think that if i was ever approached like that i would at least get one good shot at them, maybe break a nose. its funny that those idiots ran away with their tails between their legs. another thing to think about is to actually scream for help. it makes it easier for witnesses to know that you are a victim and call the police. also, if you end up seriously injuring or even killing one of these guys you will have good witnesses to say, " yeah, i heard him screaming for help"
i know it does not sound manly but thats the point.

Ironchef
01-10-2008, 3:51 PM
yes, it's hard as hell to remember to or have the mind to scream..even if you think it will be embarrassing. i felt like a pansy screaming from my balcony..but it worked. but then, i am a pansy.

outersquare
01-10-2008, 3:57 PM
http://photos-786.ll.facebook.com/photos-ll-sf2p/v79/7/61/15106786/n15106786_30753771_7560.jpg

i bought that knife after my incident

BB63Squid
01-10-2008, 4:08 PM
yes, it's hard as hell to remember to or have the mind to scream..even if you think it will be embarrassing. i felt like a pansy screaming from my balcony..but it worked. but then, i am a pansy.

True...I used to get nailed by a sensei for not making any noise when I did a technique or completed a throw. Just wasn't natural for me. I imagine when I go on autopilot I will make even less noise.

hoffmang
01-10-2008, 4:10 PM
I think JD already carries a Benchmade with an Axis lock.

-Gene

Blackflag
01-10-2008, 4:28 PM
Sounds like the original poster did a good job against those asses. I've been in that situation, and I pull my knife earlier rather than later. Better to be safe than sorry.

aplinker
01-10-2008, 4:37 PM
I get nervous pulling my knife out, too. That's why I like the flashlight. It's just a flashlight.

NRAhighpowershooter
01-10-2008, 4:43 PM
This all happened in San Leandro (Wash Manor).

Around Corvalis School or Dayton? You're in my neck of the woods!

glad you're ok!!

Blackflag
01-10-2008, 4:43 PM
I'm more nervous about getting my head kicked in than holding a knife in public.

Ford8N
01-10-2008, 4:56 PM
Delete my last post, this stuff make me pissed.

troyus
01-10-2008, 5:04 PM
A neighbor and I thwarted a home invasion to his house (i live above his condo) in our crappy neighborhood. 4 BMAs had been trying to kick in his gate (built into the corner of his fence) and took off when he ran out onto his patio and I looked out my lit window down at them. We called the police so they could do their typical...nothing. Anyway, 30 minutes later after the PD is gone, same 4 BMAs are kicking down his fence and enter his patio.. I ran out on my patio with my search and rescue light and light them up, start yelling and telling them the PD is coming, and I hear what I think is my neighbor fighting with someone at the sliding back door. Well, they realized the noise and light was too much, or that they were busted..and boogied outta there. Cops came again and did their thing..blah blah blah...lamers.

Anyway, you did good JD making noise and being in the lights. No neighbors could have heard me since I"m right on Highway 4 and our condos are tucked away in the corner of the complex with many escape routes. We just keep our firearms handy every night and plan to call each other. I have things on my balcony to throw at them..thinking of getting a boat horn.

My wife has her pepper spray I make her carry..even if just to the car in our parking lot..we have another can in the car, and i have one for myself. Thinking of getting a fixed blade knife but i doubt it's legal to carry.

Living in Antioch has made paranoid psychos out of my wife and I (being burglarized last year didn't help either). We know that noise and lights are good. Think I'll start wearing a whistle around my neck! lol

Just curious, how come you didn't pull out the old boomstick on these guys and tell them to take a seat until the donut-eaters can make their way back over there?

Stormfeather
01-10-2008, 5:43 PM
First off, let me say this JD, great situational awareness on keeping these guys tracked mentally! I do the same thing be it old ladies or JDLR types. Alot of guys can couch-quarterback this because they havent been in this situation before. But dont let that affect how you think. You did everything right, down to keeping the mindset to keep pushing them into each other, to hitting the car. You definitely lucked out that the car had its alarm on! Having had this happen to myself once and come out on top, I can relate to how you feel.
One thing you will want to look out for now, is watching for these same guys in the area you was in when it happened. If it was 3-4 guys, then chances are, they live in the area. You may have another encounter with them again and have to deal with it once more. This happened to me when one of the guys who tried to mug me ended up stopping by a neighbors house a few weeks later as I was taking out the trash. I saw him and he saw me, and he couldnt place me. But I definitely knew who he was. 15 minutes later he was cuffed up on a patrol car and I was smiling my *** off at him.
Once again, glad you made it thru and are still amongst those of us standing.

aplinker
01-10-2008, 5:46 PM
I agree with SF above. You made it out alive and did a great job in the situation. I'm just really glad you're OK. I don't like hearing about good people in bad situations.

Ford8N
01-10-2008, 5:51 PM
First off, let me say this JD, great situational awareness on keeping these guys tracked mentally! I do the same thing be it old ladies or JDLR types. Alot of guys can couch-quarterback this because they havent been in this situation before. But dont let that affect how you think. You did everything right, down to keeping the mindset to keep pushing them into each other, to hitting the car. You definitely lucked out that the car had its alarm on! Having had this happen to myself once and come out on top, I can relate to how you feel.
One thing you will want to look out for now, is watching for these same guys in the area you was in when it happened. If it was 3-4 guys, then chances are, they live in the area. You may have another encounter with them again and have to deal with it once more. This happened to me when one of the guys who tried to mug me ended up stopping by a neighbors house a few weeks later as I was taking out the trash. I saw him and he saw me, and he couldnt place me. But I definitely knew who he was. 15 minutes later he was cuffed up on a patrol car and I was smiling my *** off at him.
Once again, glad you made it thru and are still amongst those of us standing.

I agree. They are your neighbors and they felt comfortable in your area. They will strike again, I hope it is not someone in your family.:(

oaklander
01-10-2008, 5:57 PM
I was mugged twice while living in San Francisco. Once at gun point.

Since I moved to Oakland, I haven't been mugged. I guess where I live they figure nobody has any money.

I won't go outside at night without my dog Sam. He's harmless, but "they" don't know that. All they see is an 80 pound Rottie mix. For some reason, a lot of the BG'ers in this neck of the woods are afraid of dogs. Maybe it's from getting chased by police dogs, I don't know.

the_natterjack
01-10-2008, 6:15 PM
This all happened in San Leandro (Wash Manor).

Yup, only about five or ten minutes away from me. I'm over in San Lorenzo.

Glad to hear your OK. Sorry your neighbors have little thugs for kids.

5968
01-10-2008, 6:25 PM
I'm glad to hear that you are OK. Sounds like you were in a bad situation and came out of it alright.

The SoCal Gunner
01-10-2008, 6:32 PM
This all happened in San Leandro (Wash Manor).

My gf's cousin lives up there. They came down here for a few days after the new year and said that a lot of people have been getting robbed lately. The cousin said her aunt and uncle where robbed and beat even after they complied. Said there were a few cases of home invasions and even a lady who was robbed and beat inside a Walgreens, think they witnessed that one or arrived while the elderly lady was still on the floor.

Diabolus
01-10-2008, 6:33 PM
In this situation if you had a gun and used it to kill one or more, would you be held accountable for anything?

What about pulling a knife and killing one of them?

At what point does a person have a right to protect themselves?

The SoCal Gunner
01-10-2008, 6:36 PM
In this situation if you had a gun and used it to kill one or more, would you be held accountable for anything?

What about pulling a knife and killing one of them?

At what point does a person have a right to protect themselves?

When I took my self-defense class, the instructor said something about CA law regarding self-defense allows a person to use the same amount of force that the assailant is using. She also said that multiple assailants constitute a threat to your life so using lethal force would be justifiable.

WokMaster1
01-10-2008, 6:44 PM
So what's up with all these folks walking their dogs or just exercising carrying golf putters, long umbrellas, rattan staff or even escrima sticks? I've seen SFPD or Pinole PD wave to them & saying hello. Never seen cops give them any grief.

Hmmm, maybe that's your answer. If you don't use it to commit a crime, you're good to go, no? shrug:

where is that video about the assault umbrella?

jdberger
01-10-2008, 7:31 PM
Around Corvalis School or Dayton? You're in my neck of the woods!

glad you're ok!!

Dayton

532Fastback
01-10-2008, 7:33 PM
Glad your ok man. I hope sometime those thugs get theirs somehow.

M. Sage
01-10-2008, 7:34 PM
Glad you're alright! Nice awareness.

Seems like almost every mugging/near mugging story I've heard starts with "hey, got a cigarette?"

Pepper spray and flashlight would be great things to carry in this situation. Be careful about drawing a knife when confronting 4 people -- you may be committing yourself to something you don't want to get into.

Only if you do it wrong. Don't let them see it till as many of them as possible are bleeding. A knife isn't for showing, it's for cutting, IMO. Especially against a group.

Ech0Sierra
01-10-2008, 7:47 PM
Man, that was close, nice to hear you got out of it OK, the Car Alarm was genius, I would have probably stabbed them with my Rukus. Not a smart idea in 4 vs. 1 combat, but I know how to defend, not to be a Sergeant in an urban battlefield.

draconianruler
01-10-2008, 7:48 PM
Wow, glad you're alright. Also good thinking about the car alarm! Just shows that SHTF can happen anywhere anytime.

NRAhighpowershooter
01-10-2008, 7:50 PM
Dayton

Sheesh... only a few (4) blocks from my house... :mad:

Pthfndr
01-10-2008, 8:09 PM
Next time go to the PTA meeting carrying a baseball glove























And a Louisville Slugger :)

Stanze
01-10-2008, 9:03 PM
In this situation if you had a gun and used it to kill one or more, would you be held accountable for anything?

What about pulling a knife and killing one of them?

At what point does a person have a right to protect themselves?

Assuming you don't have a CCW "permit", if it was legitimate self-defense you would not be charged (Or, the charges would be dropped/found not guilty). However, the DA may still charge you with "illegal" CCW. Which is only a misdemeanor if the gun is registered to you and you're not a gang member. Your rights to own and buy guns in CA would not be revoked with a "illegal" CCW "conviction".

Case in point: http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20060201/news_7m1salcido.html

jdberger
01-10-2008, 9:09 PM
Assuming you don't have a CCW "permit", if it was legitimate self-defense you would not be charged (Or, the charges would be dropped/found not guilty). However, the DA may still charge you with "illegal" CCW. Which is only a misdemeanor if the gun is registered to you and you're not a gang member. Your rights to own and buy guns in CA would not be revoked with a "illegal" CCW "conviction".

Case in point: http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20060201/news_7m1salcido.html

But I was going to a PTA meeting at an elementary school...

I know, better to be judged by twelve than carried by 6, but ...

jdberger
01-10-2008, 9:16 PM
Oh..and next time, I won't worry so much about deploying the knife. It's got a black blade so it's pretty hard to see at night. Just the edge shows (tested it a little while ago). If wearing gloves, I'll just have to do it two handed. That's what the old school guys did before thumbstuds and flippers.

As far as keeping my eye out for these guys, I don't know if I'd recognize them again, but I'd sure be mighty suspicious of 3 or four guys of their general description hanging out on a corner.

The officer that took the report was visibly irritated. He asked me to call if I saw anything that reminded me of them. He stated that they'll probably try again.

For now, I'm going to write a nice, firm letter to the owners of the car I banged into. I'll apologize, but remind them that this is their neighborhood, too. And if they want to be safe in it, they need to take some responsibility and be somewhat pro-active when they hear screaming in their driveway. At the very least, they should call the police. I hope that it will do some good.

Thanks again for everyone's support.

dadoody
01-10-2008, 9:23 PM
I usually carry Fox Labs pepper spray in a concealed jacket pocket.

CRTguns
01-10-2008, 9:25 PM
You mean you narrowly escaped the need to excercise your right as a human and american and kill that mo-fo tweaker.

jdberger
01-10-2008, 9:46 PM
You mean you narrowly escaped the need to excercise your right as a human and american and kill that mo-fo tweaker.

Yes...not a tweaker and not one - 4.

I just wish that I was able to somehow "mark" one of them - so that the police would know who they were when they showed up looking for stitches...

Pvt. Cowboy
01-10-2008, 9:53 PM
Assuming you don't have a CCW "permit", if it was legitimate self-defense you would not be charged (Or, the charges would be dropped/found not guilty). However, the DA may still charge you with "illegal" CCW. Which is only a misdemeanor if the gun is registered to you and you're not a gang member. Your rights to own and buy guns in CA would not be revoked with a "illegal" CCW "conviction".

Not so fast.

What I've seen happen twice in unlawful carrying of a concealed firearm cases is that the DA threatens a 'wobbler' charge of pursuing a felony in court unless you plea out immediately to a gross misdemeanor with the restrictions that you cannot have any firearms in your possession for 2-3 years --- plus a several thousand dollar fine and/or community service. Both of those cases were in the same 'red' county that is allegedly 'conservative'. They also confiscated and destroyed the guns they were carrying. In one case, the defendant was labeled a 'public nuisance' which they were told would deny them on a state DROS/NICS check.

Both incidents resulted from routine traffic stops where the CHP asked if there were any guns in the car, one of them asked simply because the driver was wearing a security guard's uniform. Both defendants complied and answered truthfully at which point they were immediately arrested after a search where the guns were found. I hope that's a lesson to some of you who might forget you're carrying illegally in your vehicle. You all do know what legal transportation of firearms means in CA, I hope.

Unless the law has changed in CA, there is a provision in which you can lawfully carry a concealed firearm in public without a permit under extreme circumstances where you believe you are in immediate danger. Good luck with that one though.

69Mach1
01-10-2008, 10:00 PM
I'm glad you made it throught that.

LECTRIKHED
01-10-2008, 10:18 PM
I'm glad that you made it out safely. I've had a similar incident that luckily didn't get violent.

I live in a metro area with a lot of homeless. You start to get a feel for all the homeless in the different areas and recognize them. I was walking from my car parked on the street to my apartment (300 yards). An older black guy on the corner 40ish homeless thug looking came straight towards me. I carry pepper spray with a little wrist strap I made and a knife. I crossed the street and he crossed also. I knew he was coming for me and moving quickly but not running. I pulled my pepper spray from my pocket. I swung it a couple of times as I walked towards my apartment so that he could see it. I then held it in my hand with the wrist strap. The guy slowed down when he saw that I was not going to be an easy mugging. He turned around and lingered back to the corner.

The wrist strap is something I'd recommend for all people that carry pepper spray. It makes getting it out easier and when on your wrist, you cannot drop it in a struggle. I make it out of paracord. You can put it around your wrist and leave it in your pocket. Also if you carry pepper spray have it ready. 90% of women who have it would be SOL searching their purse for their pepper spray. You need to have it ready. Best technique is to keep it alone in the same side pocket every day. I keep mine in my jacket pocket. When its not there it's in my jeans. My knife is a backup if the pepper spray fails, which can happen.

Someone asked about pepper spray brands. I currently carry mace. I've also carried Fox labs. The rest of the stuff out there is made in China crap. I would not trust it. Just buy that stuff for practice.

CSDGuy
01-10-2008, 10:18 PM
Not so fast.

What I've seen happen twice in unlawful carrying of a concealed firearm cases is that the DA threatens a 'wobbler' charge of pursuing a felony in court unless you plea out immediately to a gross misdemeanor with the restrictions that you cannot have any firearms in your possession for 2-3 years --- plus a several thousand dollar fine and/or community service. Both of those cases were in the same 'red' county that is allegedly 'conservative'. They also confiscated and destroyed the guns they were carrying. In one case, the defendant was labeled a 'public nuisance' which they were told would deny them on a state DROS/NICS check.

Both incidents resulted from routine traffic stops where the CHP asked if there were any guns in the car, one of them asked simply because the driver was wearing a security guard's uniform. Both defendants complied and answered truthfully at which point they were immediately arrested after a search where the guns were found. I hope that's a lesson to some of you who might forget you're carrying illegally in your vehicle. You all do know what legal transportation of firearms means in CA, I hope.

Unless the law has changed in CA, there is a provision in which you can lawfully carry a concealed firearm in public without a permit under extreme circumstances where you believe you are in immediate danger. Good luck with that one though.
You're referring to PC 12025.5 - Here's the text of that law.

12025.5. (a) A violation of Section 12025 is justifiable when a
person who possesses a firearm reasonably believes that he or she is
in grave danger because of circumstances forming the basis of a
current restraining order issued by a court against another person or
persons who has or have been found to pose a threat to his or her
life or safety. This section may not apply when the circumstances
involve a mutual restraining order issued pursuant to Division 10
(commencing with Section 6200) of the Family Code absent a factual
finding of a specific threat to the person's life or safety. It is
not the intent of the Legislature to limit, restrict, or narrow the
application of current statutory or judicial authority to apply this
or other justifications to defendants charged with violating Section
12025 or of committing other similar offenses.
(b) Upon trial for violating Section 12025, the trier of fact
shall determine whether the defendant was acting out of a reasonable
belief that he or she was in grave danger.

M. Sage
01-10-2008, 10:29 PM
I'm glad that you made it out safely. I've had a similar incident that luckily didn't get violent.

I live in a metro area with a lot of homeless. You start to get a feel for all the homeless in the different areas and recognize them. I was walking from my car parked on the street to my apartment (300 yards). An older black guy on the corner 40ish homeless thug looking came straight towards me. I carry pepper spray with a little wrist strap I made and a knife. I crossed the street and he crossed also. I knew he was coming for me and moving quickly but not running. I pulled my pepper spray from my pocket. I swung it a couple of times as I walked towards my apartment so that he could see it. I then held it in my hand with the wrist strap. The guy slowed down when he saw that I was not going to be an easy mugging. He turned around and lingered back to the corner.

The wrist strap is something I'd recommend for all people that carry pepper spray. It makes getting it out easier and when on your wrist, you cannot drop it in a struggle. I make it out of paracord. You can put it around your wrist and leave it in your pocket. Also if you carry pepper spray have it ready. 90% of women who have it would be SOL searching their purse for their pepper spray. You need to have it ready. Best technique is to keep it alone in the same side pocket every day. I keep mine in my jacket pocket. When its not there it's in my jeans. My knife is a backup if the pepper spray fails, which can happen.

Someone asked about pepper spray brands. I currently carry mace. I've also carried Fox labs. The rest of the stuff out there is made in China crap. I would not trust it. Just buy that stuff for practice.

Pix of that wrist strap? I love paracord: you can make damn near anything out of it. :D

My wife had a Key Defender (till she lost her keys), and that kept it pretty handy. Almost used it on someone (a bum) who grabbed her shoulder as she walked by one night. He reached out and she snapped the pepper spray into her hand and pointed it at his face, at which point he screamed (musta been sprayed before :43: ) and left.

Blackflag
01-10-2008, 10:42 PM
For now, I'm going to write a nice, firm letter to the owners of the car I banged into. I'll apologize, but remind them that this is their neighborhood, too. And if they want to be safe in it, they need to take some responsibility and be somewhat pro-active when they hear screaming in their driveway. At the very least, they should call the police. I hope that it will do some good.


I'd like to think that if that had been one of our driveways, that we'd be out there helping you.

jdberger
01-10-2008, 11:04 PM
I'd like to think that if that had been one of our driveways, that we'd be out there helping you.

me too...

Outlaw Josey Wales
01-11-2008, 12:08 AM
http://photos-786.ll.facebook.com/photos-ll-sf2p/v79/7/61/15106786/n15106786_30753771_7560.jpg

i bought that knife after my incident

Spyderco's Civilian. This knife was originally designed as backup for law enforcement. It will rip and tear through muliple layers of clothing then the flesh beneath them! One good slash with this on a bad guy and he won't be mugging anybody!

sardaukar
01-11-2008, 12:26 AM
It's good that you survived your encounter with minimal injuries, but also a shame that nothing happened to them. Although nothing has ever happened to me, I've learned to carry a flashlight and knife on me anywhere outside of home. Might need to add pepper spray and a fixed blade knife.

N6ATF
01-11-2008, 12:49 AM
Both incidents resulted from routine traffic stops where the CHP asked if there were any guns in the car, one of them asked simply because the driver was wearing a security guard's uniform. Both defendants complied and answered truthfully at which point they were immediately arrested after a search where the guns were found. I hope that's a lesson to some of you who might forget you're carrying illegally in your vehicle. You all do know what legal transportation of firearms means in CA, I hope.

Unless the security guard was CCWing without a CCW or didn't have an BSIS exposed firearms permit, there are some facts missing here.

This is from the guide that is supposed to be issued to patrol officers statewide (http://www.bsis.ca.gov/forms_pubs/pocket_guide.pdf):

This permit authorizes the carrying of an exposed loaded firearm of the caliber(s) listed on the permit only while on duty or while directly
in route to or from home, worksite, or firearm range. (PC 12031(d)(5))

No private patrol operator licensee or registered security guard shall use or wear an exposed firearm unless he or she is wearing a uniform.
(B&P 7582.26(i)) (B&P 7583.3(b))

At all other times, the firearm shall be unloaded and kept in a locked container during the course of travel. (PC 12026.2(a) and (b))

dixieD
01-11-2008, 7:25 AM
Wow glad it turned out all right. Sounds like you handled it pretty well. What was your reason for not calling the police right away?

I'd like to know why the chicken**** in the house didn't call the police right away. I've been in a similar situation, and in that case the police arrived very quickly. Jees you have to take charge of your neighborhood.

brassburnz
01-11-2008, 7:55 AM
I'm a public school teacher in So. Cal. During an Emergency Prep class given by our fire department, we were told to input the local telephone numbers for the police and fire departments into our cell phones. If there was an emergency at school, they would be able to respond faster than calling 911 since the call goes directly to a local station and not a 911 system that would have to get your location, type of emergency, etc before they dispatch anyone..

I have the local police where I live as the top number on my speed-dial of my cell phone. It goes to the desk, not 911, so I don't feel uncomfortable about calling it, even if it is just to report suspiscious activity.

Often the officer at the desk sounds a little annoyed by the call, but a patrol officer who did respond to a call I made told me not to worry about it. He said keep calling and said it's OK to bug the desk jockeys or something to that effect.

I realize this event went from yelllow to red, but if you get a chance to get to orange, pull out that cell phone and put it on speaker so you can keep your hands relatively free and your line of sight clear.

johnny_22
01-11-2008, 8:29 AM
I use it to keep a 2 oz OC can in the palm of my hand on hikes and walks in the neighborhood.

Place I bought it at (Shomer-tech) doesn't carry it anymore. See a picture here:

http://www.customknife.com/Murf_Mitts.asp

Turbinator
01-11-2008, 4:20 PM
I'd like to know why the chicken**** in the house didn't call the police right away. I've been in a similar situation, and in that case the police arrived very quickly. Jees you have to take charge of your neighborhood.

I thought about it too until I looked at it this way....

Suppose I'm at home, minding my own business. Outside, I hear a car alarm going off. I go look outside and I see a guy waving to me and walking off. I'd be like, "HUH?" And probably stand around for a couple minutes wondering what I should do. Nowhere does my mind say, "Call 911" or "Go out there with blazing guns!" I'd rather sit back and assess the situation, than to over-react and call the cops or go out armed.

That's how I read his scenario, keep in mind he said that it was over in 8 seconds. How is that enough time for the homeowner to look, assess, and react by calling the cops??

Turby

Turbinator
01-11-2008, 4:42 PM
This happened to me when one of the guys who tried to mug me ended up stopping by a neighbors house a few weeks later as I was taking out the trash. I saw him and he saw me, and he couldnt place me. But I definitely knew who he was. 15 minutes later he was cuffed up on a patrol car and I was smiling my *** off at him.
Once again, glad you made it thru and are still amongst those of us standing.

Question for you - how did the cops know they had the right guy, as opposed to you just calling in a random innocent person and accusing the person of having tried to mug you in the past?

Turby

FEDUPWBS
01-11-2008, 5:00 PM
Be advised: If you own/carry chemical agents you need to expose yourself on your own and know the effects of the agent you carry. Chances are when you deploy OC YOU WILL BE EXPOSED! If you dont know what to expect you might be surprised and be taken out of the fight. Get a buddy and blast each other on a bet (good times). Most BGs have been exposed to OC or similar agents during their carreer. Also OC is not the ultimate less lethal agent. About 10%(?) of the population is unaffected by it. And perps in an altered state WILL keep fighting. So get a can and a case of beer spray the sh1t out of eack other and video tape it and post it here!

aplinker
01-11-2008, 6:57 PM
+10000

The 911 for cell phones goes to the CHP and wait times can be very long.

Put your local PD #'s in your phone, both emergency and not.

I'm a public school teacher in So. Cal. During an Emergency Prep class given by our fire department, we were told to input the local telephone numbers for the police and fire departments into our cell phones. If there was an emergency at school, they would be able to respond faster than calling 911 since the call goes directly to a local station and not a 911 system that would have to get your location, type of emergency, etc before they dispatch anyone..

I have the local police where I live as the top number on my speed-dial of my cell phone. It goes to the desk, not 911, so I don't feel uncomfortable about calling it, even if it is just to report suspiscious activity.

Often the officer at the desk sounds a little annoyed by the call, but a patrol officer who did respond to a call I made told me not to worry about it. He said keep calling and said it's OK to bug the desk jockeys or something to that effect.

I realize this event went from yelllow to red, but if you get a chance to get to orange, pull out that cell phone and put it on speaker so you can keep your hands relatively free and your line of sight clear.

robitrocks
01-11-2008, 8:52 PM
+10000

The 911 for cell phones goes to the CHP and wait times can be very long.

Put your local PD #'s in your phone, both emergency and not.

Good advise. Put your local LEA emergency phone number in your cell phone. When you call 911 your call will bounce off of the nearest cell tower if you're close to a freeway your call goes to CHP. Otherwise it most likely goes to your local PD or SO. ALSO, when calling 911 the dispatcher can see your location within a couple hundred feet, so don't hesitate to call 911 on your cell, it's just a good idea to have your local PD's number as well.
:)

chico.cm
01-11-2008, 9:51 PM
Props to you JD! You are alive, and hopefully well, and I appreciate the lesson you've shared with us. I promise, had it been my car alarm, I'd be out there like a flash with Mr 4D maglite. BTDT.

N6ATF
01-12-2008, 12:38 AM
Question for you - how did the cops know they had the right guy, as opposed to you just calling in a random innocent person and accusing the person of having tried to mug you in the past?

Turby

Maybe they didn't, but who's ultimately to decide who the 'right guy' is?

Paladin
01-12-2008, 1:17 PM
Interestingly, I don't think a CCW would have helped in this situation vary much. The whole event went from Yellow to Red so quickly, I wouldn't have had time to employ a handgun. OC would have been a better choice. I can carry it openly in my hand without people freaking out.I respectfully disagree re a CCW. If it is cold out, you can walk w/your hand on a Bodyguard or Centennial revolver in your jacket/coat pocket. If need be, you can even shoot through your outer garment rather than waste time drawing. That's one advantage of those two revolvers. And since they are revolvers, there's no concern about disengaging the slide while shooting "muzzle to meat"; and little concern about malfunctions when firing during H2H.

Carrying a J-frame in each jacket pocket will make you feel all warm and fuzzy better than wearing gloves. :D

Greg-Dawg
01-12-2008, 1:25 PM
Lessons learned:

Learn Muy Thai or this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9e8xNmi77PM

JeffM
01-12-2008, 3:06 PM
Lots of good advice and info here. Good situational awareness, etc. I don't want to take up too much space on that.

The "got a smoke" that's so common is simply an "interview". You look like a good mark, but the bad guy is checking your level of awareness, etc.

For all those folks carrying knives, I'd recomend looking up Emerson's Wave design. Any folder with a "wave" is going to be faster to deploy than an automatic knife, and is 100% legal.

+1 on the blood-born issue awareness too.

Turbinator
01-12-2008, 10:55 PM
Maybe they didn't, but who's ultimately to decide who the 'right guy' is?

That's why I am hesitant to get too hard on the homeowner in this story because as an outside observer, it is often too difficult (and at night even) to tell what is going on and who the perps are. Yeah, from our perspective the guy was a doof who didn't call the cops or come out to help, but who really wants that liability on their hands in today's society?

Turby

Stormfeather
01-12-2008, 11:12 PM
Question for you - how did the cops know they had the right guy, as opposed to you just calling in a random innocent person and accusing the person of having tried to mug you in the past?

Turby

I made a police report moments after it happened. I happen to remember the details of the guys neck tattoo, which was very elaborate and gang related as well. I wrote a thesis on gang tattooing a few years ago, so its a great subject for me. The first thing I look at is tattoos and can recognize the majority of people just from their tattoos. The clincher was the officers that responded to the second call was the same set from the first call. Pure luck and happenstance was the guys downfall.

Turbinator
01-12-2008, 11:20 PM
Pure luck and happenstance was the guys downfall.

Awesome. Thanks for the details. Glad to hear it worked out very well for you, and good going. :)

Turby

ryang
01-13-2008, 3:19 PM
For now, I'm going to write a nice, firm letter to the owners of the car I banged into. I'll apologize, but remind them that this is their neighborhood, too. And if they want to be safe in it, they need to take some responsibility and be somewhat pro-active when they hear screaming in their driveway.I hate to say it, but writing that letter could expose you to civil liability. You admit hitting their car and they could claim it caused paint scratches or dents and sue you to fix them. Such is the society we live in.

Tactically it sounded like you did everything right, except possibly retreating further into the driveway so they can't approach you from all sides.

When you call 911, mentally rehearse what you're going to say while it's dialing. Be prepared to give the most important info first: location (street and intersection), nature of the call, then relevant descriptions. That way if you get interrupted they know where to find you. Most people tend to say stuff "backwards" like, "There are four guys following me. I'm walking by myself on the street and I think they might rob me." Better to say, "I'm walking east on Marina just past Alvarado. Four black male adults are following me and I think they're going to rob me."

And yes, definite second on the recommendation to have local PD numbers on your speed dial. 911 on a cell phone is a joke.

jdberger
01-13-2008, 3:29 PM
I hate to say it, but writing that letter could expose you to civil liability. You admit hitting their car and they could claim it caused paint scratches or dents and sue you to fix them. Such is the society we live in.



Who cares?

I think that it's that kind of attitude (no offense intended) that keeps people in their houses crouched behind drawn curtains.

If you see something wrong, you can call someone on it. Especially if it has to do with the safety of your neighborhood.

jkasandiego
01-13-2008, 4:06 PM
Mugged???????? Advice is know your sorroundings,be very aware specially at night,at the parking lot park your vehicle where people could see you if you shout for help(near a light source).
Then again better be judged by 12 than carried by six..:)

dixieD
01-13-2008, 6:04 PM
I thought about it too until I looked at it this way....

Nowhere does my mind say, "Call 911" or "Go out there with blazing guns!" I'd rather sit back and assess the situation, than to over-react and call the cops or go out armed.

8 seconds is definitely not much time.

I am certainly not hot headed, and the point that I want to make is that it is the neighbors responsibility, all of them, for improving conditions. This means having awareness about what is normal in your neighborhood at any time, and then if something does not fit be prepared to act. This is basically what the police neighborhood watch programs are about.

In this case the bad guys ran off once the alarm went off. It would've been more neighborly if they guy in the house at least asked if everything was all right.

djslik408
01-13-2008, 7:26 PM
Its a crazy world we live in. Regardless of how you defend yourself, there are still consequences for your action. I was rob about 4 years ago but when i defended myself, I broke the suspect's arm. Then he had the guts to sue me for his medical bills and time off work. What a world!!

jdberger
01-13-2008, 8:08 PM
Lots of good advice and info here. Good situational awareness, etc. I don't want to take up too much space on that.

The "got a smoke" that's so common is simply an "interview". You look like a good mark, but the bad guy is checking your level of awareness, etc.

For all those folks carrying knives, I'd recomend looking up Emerson's Wave design. Any folder with a "wave" is going to be faster to deploy than an automatic knife, and is 100% legal.

+1 on the blood-born issue awareness too.

The Wave design definately would have allowed me to deploy my knife since it's not dependent on thumb pressure to open the blade.

And now I'm shopping again....

Regarding blood borne illnesses, if I had to, I would have bit one of those guys. Now that the whole thing has sunk in a bit, I wouldn't hesitate a bit. Whatever it takes to win the fight.

This wasn't a bar fight or some macho duel over a chick or minor slight. They wouldn't have thought twice about employing a rock or brick to hit me with, and the guy truly swung with all his might, probably hoping to knock me out. A little brain damage occuring to me probably wouldn't have fazed him. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reginald_Oliver_Denny) So, and eye gouge or a bite to a face, hand or calf would be reasonable.

Turby has a valid criticism regarding the neighbor with the car. But please keep in mind that:


The driveway was pretty deep, about 20 feet from the back of the car to the sidewalk.
I was screaming my head off. Mostly obscenities and loud enough (since I was almost butted up against the house) to have been heard inside the house.
I was standing next to the car in that deep driveway when the guy looked out the window and turned off the alarm.


I know that YMMV, but if I had a "Fast and Furious" car, and some guy was standing next to it WAY in my driveway and was just screaming obscenities like a lunatic, I would have called the cops.

ryang
01-13-2008, 9:18 PM
Who cares?

I think that it's that kind of attitude (no offense intended) that keeps people in their houses crouched behind drawn curtains.

If you see something wrong, you can call someone on it. Especially if it has to do with the safety of your neighborhood.Call it a difference of opinion then, because I'm definitely not a person who crouches behind drawn curtains.

Write a letter that says (and I'm exaggerating here for effect) "I'm the guy that bumped into your car to trigger it's alarm and you're a wimp for not doing anything to help me" could tick the guy off and give him all the ammo he needs to win a small claims suit against you. That is not a good letter to write and does nothing to help foster the neighborhood "community spirit" you want.

Write a letter that says "the other night I was mugged by four guys in front of your house. We need to support each other if we want to prevent crime in our streets" and you have a much better chance of getting the response you want. And it doesn't expose you to unnecessary litigation.

jdberger
01-13-2008, 9:22 PM
Call it a difference of opinion then, because I'm definitely not a person who crouches behind drawn curtains.

Write a letter that says (and I'm exaggerating here for effect) "I'm the guy that bumped into your car to trigger it's alarm and you're a wimp for not doing anything to help me" could tick the guy off and give him all the ammo he needs to win a small claims suit against you. That is not a good letter to write and does nothing to help foster the neighborhood "community spirit" you want.

Write a letter that says "the other night I was mugged by four guys in front of your house. We need to support each other if we want to prevent crime in our streets" and you have a much better chance of getting the response you want. And it doesn't expose you to unnecessary litigation.


Being relatively non-confrontational by nature....I wasn't going to write the kind of letter you first mentioned. I'd write the second one.

Thanks for your sentiments.

duraglock
01-14-2008, 1:33 PM
jd glad you made it out okay. reread your first statement and you will see that your state of mind about the walk had you in condition white.some things i would like to mention would be first and foremost have a plann of action before you leave the door.be it a walk,shopping or out to dinner with the family, a good plan might have allowed you to regain the advantage. a cell phone to call before it went down even if you hadnt dialed the number just pull it out and start talking loudly as if the dispatcher has answered while you wait for it to connect.once its over get the descriptions out as they were on foot and still in the area. also at this time draw your knife with your strong hand in a fashion so that the perps following can see that you are going to cut someone should they get close. these 2 things might have been enough to deter the attack since you no longer are going to be an easy mark. also loose the gloves as your hands can be more effective without gloves on be it an eye gough or just bare knuckles. also for all the people trumping up oc it might take 8 seconds for it to disable the attcker the same amount of time the fight took. also not to mention if you got any on your own person and have not been exposed you might be out of the fight. if your going to carry it use it on yourself and get a canister just to practice the spray pattern distance and how fast you can deploy it. with the oc you might have gotten one or 2 but three and the fourth one you didnt see i dont know. i carry a surefire e2d and its a good impact device but practice strikes and draws.bevel down as hammer type blows deliver more force. also it acts like a rolls of dimes. i found that if im in a country that doesnt allow knives and such that having it loose strong side jacket pocket vs clipped is faster and easy to deploy at the first sense of something wrong. always scan your area. hell 4 on 1 and you dont feel up to it blind them with your dust and get out of there. some follow up things are print some fliers and post them to let others know about the attack so they might avoid the same thing.did you notify the school since they attacked you im sure they would prey on kids or other parents. post a description of these guys here as many live in the area and might come across them in the area . if you want pm me offline if you want anything else.

fred40
01-14-2008, 3:35 PM
Glad your ok. Maybe you should have pulled your knife out when you noticed they were following you. That way it would be in your hand and ready in case something went down like it did. Of course you don't want them noticing it in your hand. And hopefully you don't have to use it. But 4 on 1, I think it's a fair trade. I use a 5 D-Cell Maglite if I'm in need of some light in certain places that aren't so great, as well as my knife that I carry clipped onto my pocket.
if he wouldve used his knife, can he get arrested?

Turbinator
01-14-2008, 5:18 PM
Turby has a valid criticism regarding the neighbor with the car. But please keep in mind that:


The driveway was pretty deep, about 20 feet from the back of the car to the sidewalk.
I was screaming my head off. Mostly obscenities and loud enough (since I was almost butted up against the house) to have been heard inside the house.
I was standing next to the car in that deep driveway when the guy looked out the window and turned off the alarm.


I know that YMMV, but if I had a "Fast and Furious" car, and some guy was standing next to it WAY in my driveway and was just screaming obscenities like a lunatic, I would have called the cops.

Thanks for the additional information. If I had the house arrangement you've described, as the car owner and homeowner, I indeed would also had enough of a suspicion to want to see what the heck was going on with my car and why there are people on my driveway banging into my car. Fair enough and given the facts as stated, I can agree it was odd that the guy didn't at least come out to see if there was any damage to his car at all.

Turby