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Blwnbwtie
01-08-2008, 2:56 PM
Who has done these before? How well do they hold up? Do the screws start to back out after a while?

ptoguy2002
01-08-2008, 3:41 PM
There was a thread on akforum a while back about this.
I have no experiance, but basically the consensus from that thread was that it would hold up for an average use semi auto, if you did it right, used the right screws, etc.
But for long term, high round counts, if you had an evil third pin, etc, it would eventually work loose.
Apparently the russians had experimented with it way back when, and couldn't keep them together.
I'll see if I can find the link.

Builder
01-08-2008, 5:56 PM
Think about it. The forces across the screws are mostly in shear. This shear is taken from the sides across the threads from the receiver (not good) and limited by the squeezing of the screw clamping the trunion to the receiver to prevent this motion. Any movement will impinge the threads leading to more movement and eventually failure. Now if the receiver and trunion have dimples so that the screw is only used for clamping force and the shear is taken by the indentations, then that is better. From a long lasting point of view, how would the screws hold up by hammering (like recoil) on the sides of the screws?
Sure screws are easy to do, but the fastest and best is a TIG weld where the attachment is solid metal over an area larger than a rivet. It has the same advantages as a screw build.
I took my build to a friendly welder who took all of about 40 minutes to do the 10 welds. Of course, most of the time was spent on alignment. No going back with the weld. :D
Thanks,
Builder

swift
01-08-2008, 6:41 PM
What about assembling a screw build, seeing that it's OK and then having it welded?

For my first one, I only care that it works well and that it can take a beating. The next ones will be rivet builds.

Charliegone
01-08-2008, 7:18 PM
My uncle did a screw build, came apart. He's really good with his hands ( he's a machinist) but the screws wouldn't hold up to the pressures. My advice? Rivet the whole thing except for the top 4 rivets (that way you won't have to take out the barrel from the trunnion) which you would u-drive (u-drive screws). So far about 400 rounds down both my ak's which I did this to, no problems, no backing out. That could also be that I used a press to put them in and made sure the hole was smaller diameter so that the fit was tight.

!@#$
01-08-2008, 7:33 PM
look on akfiles. screw builds hold up as good as any other if done right.

Blwnbwtie
01-08-2008, 10:30 PM
What about assembling a screw build, seeing that it's OK and then having it welded?

For my first one, I only care that it works well and that it can take a beating. The next ones will be rivet builds.

Maybe i will try that. Does it have to be TIG or would a gas MIG work just the same, cause i have one of those in the garage?

ptoguy2002
01-09-2008, 5:40 PM
Stay away from U-drives, they are bad.
They will break eventually as well.

dccali79
01-09-2008, 6:39 PM
I did a screw build with my first Romanian ak kit last year and I fired 500 rounds through it and had no big problems except that the screws would slightly loosen up after after a few hundred rounds. If you do a screw build make sure you use locktite so the screws do not back out from the recoil. I eventually just used rivets and crushed the front and rear trunions. Bottom line, If its your first build then go with the screw build, It's pretty easy .You can rivet the rifle later if you want the authentic look of an AK.

Blwnbwtie
01-09-2008, 7:01 PM
what do you guys think about using the screw kit and then after it is all working correctly using a MIG to tack the heads of the screws to the receiver? I dont have access to a TIG the only one that i could be able to use it at my friends work and i dont think bringing a gun into there would be a good idea.

DB2
01-09-2008, 7:13 PM
It would be overkill, not to mention it will probably look like crap.:eek:

Screws will be just fine. Drill and tap, put some loctite on the screw and tighten. It may not be the gunsnob way of doing it but it will work.


Personally, I'd find some help to rivet it.

hung380
01-09-2008, 7:22 PM
Use a new domestic made tap with lots of cuting oil for tapping. Try using permanent LocTite to prevent the screws from backing out.

Charliegone
01-09-2008, 8:08 PM
Stay away from U-drives, they are bad.
They will break eventually as well.

I would say that for the whole rifle, but for those 4 top front trunnion rivets they work well.

Builder
01-11-2008, 11:49 AM
Maybe i will try that. Does it have to be TIG or would a gas MIG work just the same, cause i have one of those in the garage?It is all about the quality of the welds. MIG has a tendency to splatter more and the depth of weld / quality can be more difficult. You can read about the MIG weld build over at AK Files http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24952 to see what Ronin has done. Make sure you make a perfect weld. There's a picture of my Romy build welds over there as well.
I used the screws on my PSL screw build to hold everything in place while it was TIG welded. On the Romy builds, they were clamped in place and cycled fully to make sure the bolt and bolt carrier worked perfectly before welding.
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l108/DavidRSw/AKreceiverprep.jpg
I now have 3 Romy G and one PSL all TIG welded. I have 2 more Romy's and one Yugo build to go.
Thanks,
Builder

FEDUPWBS
01-11-2008, 12:32 PM
Quit screwing around and do it right. Make some rivit smashers w/ boltcutters and rivit the thing like it was intended!

troyus
01-11-2008, 12:34 PM
Quit screwing around and do it right. Make some rivit smashers w/ boltcutters and rivit the thing like it was intended!

FEDUP, do you have any pics of you doing rivets by hand vs.a a press? The press rivets look SO MUCH better than the hand done ones I have seen... Can you confirm or is it all in the technique?

FEDUPWBS
01-11-2008, 1:43 PM
they look no different when done correctly. If you want to buy a boltcutter setup contact user "hotbarrel" from www.gunco.net . the secret is practice on scrap and have another set of hands/eyes when using the BC tool. What is your location? You need to display your location under your post count. You never know who may pm you to help if they are close.

troyus
01-11-2008, 1:48 PM
they look no different when done correctly. If you want to buy a boltcutter setup contact user "hotbarrel" from www.gunco.net . the secret is practice on scrap and have another set of hands/eyes when using the BC tool. What is your location? You need to display your location under your post count. You never know who may pm you to help if they are close.

Gotcha, I will do as you say. :)

AKman
01-11-2008, 1:54 PM
Who has done these before? How well do they hold up? Do the screws start to back out after a while?

You might try getting a girlfriend instead. They cost a lot more money, but are a lot better than an AK screw kit.

FEDUPWBS
01-11-2008, 2:13 PM
You might try getting a girlfriend instead. They cost a lot more money, but are a lot better than an AK screw kit.

All depends on how bad you have the gun bug. You can kick the GF to the side. The gun compulsion/obsession doesnt just go away and you cant stop cold turkey.
My advise is to get a GF and save yourself now.

Blwnbwtie
01-11-2008, 3:02 PM
All depends on how bad you have the gun bug. You can kick the GF to the side. The gun compulsion/obsession doesnt just go away and you cant stop cold turkey.
My advise is to get a GF and save yourself now.


I hear that, im in a little to deep now. I cant seem to stop buying guns. I think its worse than drugs.

FEDUPWBS
01-11-2008, 4:08 PM
I hear that, im in a little to deep now. I cant seem to stop buying guns. I think its worse than drugs.

What do you mean "you think"? That sounds alot like denial. We know thats a sure sign of a problem.

Blwnbwtie
01-11-2008, 4:34 PM
Hi my name is blwnbwtie, and im a gunaholic.

Grouch
01-11-2008, 4:43 PM
what about using screws for just the trigger guard?

FEDUPWBS
01-11-2008, 5:46 PM
what about using screws for just the trigger guard?


NOT

thedrickel
01-11-2008, 7:36 PM
what about using screws for just the trigger guard?

Screws on the trigger guard are fine. I've used them, but I'm replacing them with rivets eventually. Use loctite so they don't vibrate loose.

Grouch
01-12-2008, 11:55 AM
NOT

Hey some of us have trigger guards to put on! :chris: ;)

Zwingli
01-12-2008, 1:03 PM
I've done U-drives slash/rivets on an rpk and have done horrible things to it. bump fired several hundred rounds, smashed it dropped it. etc etc. . . .yes I'm bad and don't do things right but it has held up fine. Don't have a press to remove barrel. If you have the ability doing the rivets doesn't really save much work not to, however if not other options work, they may not be perfect but heck we're doing this in our garage.

valleyrat
01-12-2008, 11:44 PM
Man, I really think using anything but rivets on an AK is potentially asking for trouble. U drives were never meant for the stresses incurred on a firearm. To each his own, but if someone showed up at a range with a screwed together rifle I would make sure to keep my distance.;)

I did my first build with rivets using a modified punch, a hammer, and bolt cutter that I modded myself. Granted, it looked like hell at first until FEDUP's expert skills were applied to polish up the rivets. Now its a nice gun, and I know that it will last for the future generations. My second rivet job was 567.9% better. Practice, practice, practice.

weezil_boi
01-19-2008, 12:08 AM
Great... I just picked up a romy G kit, tapped and with the screws, ready to build. Now I read all this screw kit hate.

Well, I will push on. I will try to post some pics and stuff in here when I finally finish.

Man, I hope you guys are all wrong.. and I have a rare stroke of gunsmithing genius in my screw build rebellion :) Wish me luck. If there are any other poor bastages in the Sac area about to do a screw build... PM me, maybe we can suffer together.

tamaneko
01-19-2008, 11:33 AM
Does a 80% flat receiver that you fold for an AK have to be registered aftewards?

Zwingli
01-20-2008, 12:01 AM
If you're going to make it into what classifies as an Assault Weapon in California there is no more registration and thus it would be an illegal weapon.

However if you're simply going to make it into a long gun (no AW features), long guns do not have to be registered at all and never have been.

However, if it is not properly serialized etc according to BATFE guidelines then you'll never be able to sell it --its yours forever--

If you're making it into a pistol that is a whole different boat -- there is a thread going right now about that which you could look up.

:TFH::cool2::eek: