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Thomas83
08-19-2013, 2:59 PM
Hey CGF,

I'm looking at picking up the Ruger American Rifle this coming weekend. Is my mind set on it, no. Problem is, which caliber? I know very little about the .243, .270, a bit about the .308, and still nothing about the 30-06. Anybody with experience in any of these calibers can give me a bit of insight or knowledge please?

I have .223/5.56 and 22-250 calibers for smaller game/varmit hunting and overall target shooting at the range. I have discovered with my 22-250 that longer range target shooting can be quite addicting, but I want a larger caliber and need your overall experiences. I'll probably end up using the rifle for hunting, but for now, it will just get sighted in and put away unless I pick up any tags this year. My budget is $400 with all fees & taxes taken into account. Is there any other rifle out there at this price point for a larger cartridge newbie like me to look at?

Which of the calibers will have a flatter trajectory, more energy upon impact, higher muzzle velocity, etc. This is a new unexplored field for me.

Thank you,

Tom

Thorax
08-19-2013, 3:38 PM
Which of the calibers will have a flatter trajectory, more energy upon impact, higher muzzle velocity, etc.

30-06 obviously.
It also has the highest amount of available bullet weights.
From 55 grain accelerators from Remington up to (at least) 220 grain Barnes solids.

I shoot 180 grain Nosler ballistic tips and 208 grain Hornady Amax's in mine.

Dannicus
08-19-2013, 3:40 PM
Might be more appropriate if you ask in the manually operated centerfire sub forum.;)

Fjold
08-19-2013, 5:08 PM
Flatter trajectory has to do with velocity and bullet construction. Energy is defined as 1/2mass x velocity squared.

You're asking a difficult question, as we would have to know under what specific conditions that you shoot. At 100 yards trajectory doesn't matter and energy could be deceiving. The 22.250 could have more energy at 100 yards than the 45.70 but I guaranty that the 45.70 will hit harder. My 375 H&H shoots as flat as a 30.06 out to 300 yards and hits like the hammer of an angry god but it's not my choice for 600 yard shooting.

What distance do you want to shoot to? What are your targets at that range? Hunting applications for medium game, large game, dangerous game? How about long distance target shooting?

NorCalFocus
08-19-2013, 5:09 PM
30-06 is a great round, but its a hunting round. Its not something you want to shoot all day long at the range.

.308 was built off the 30-06. Same bullets, but a little less slection or weights. 100g-200g. It also uses about 10 grains less powder than the 30-06 which means if you reload the .308 will save you down the road. The .308 can be loaded for any hunting you want to do, varmint, deer to elk.

.243 is a necked down .308. Winchester made the .243 and Remington made the 6mm. The 6mm is a better round, but it never took off due to not getting barrel twist right for larger weights. .243 will shoot about the same as .308 as far as distance and when it goes sub-sonic. The one down fall to .243 is barrel life is not as good as other calibers. High speed bullets just eat the rifling out fast. However if you use it just as a hunting rifle and plan on doing mostly varmint/deer its a great round.

.270 IDK much about it.


Here's a screen shot I took off the Sniper 101 videos. It was a really great chart, and I really recommend you watch the video.

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3783/9551973686_dbf8a74f97_b.jpg

ar15barrels
08-19-2013, 5:25 PM
I'm looking at picking up the Ruger American Rifle this coming weekend.
Problem is, which caliber?
I know very little about the .243, .270, a bit about the .308, and still nothing about the 30-06.
I'll probably end up using the rifle for hunting, but for now, it will just get sighted in and put away unless I pick up any tags this year.

Which of the calibers will have a flatter trajectory, more energy upon impact, higher muzzle velocity, etc.

For a hunting gun that will mostly be carried a lot and shot from the bench very little with a flatter trajectory, look at a 270.
The Ruger American in 270 would be a nice hunting gun.

TMB 1
08-19-2013, 5:48 PM
I would look at the Stevens 200 in 270 or 30-06.

Varg Vikernes
08-19-2013, 5:58 PM
I wish someone made a wood aftermarket stock for the Ruger American

tpuig
08-19-2013, 6:30 PM
I have two friends that bought an American in .30-06, but it's specifically for hunting pigs and deer. They are very old school, so they were set on that caliber before purchase. The other calibers were just simply not an option for them.

I brought 3 of my old .30-06 rifles to the range and one buddy brought his new American. The difference in weight was considerable, mine were much heavier. The felt recoil on mine were much less, but they all shot the target fine.

As much as I love the .30-06, if I were to buy an American, I would give a long hard look at the .270...



For a hunting gun that will mostly be carried a lot and shot from the bench very little with a flatter trajectory, look at a 270.
The Ruger American in 270 would be a nice hunting gun.

Divernhunter
08-19-2013, 6:56 PM
The 308win with 150gr bullets will take anything you would want to shoot except for some DG(IE Africa, Alaska).
It can also be used long range.
The Ruger American is a great hunting rifle.
For much target shooting it is a poor choice. Light barrel, light rifle etc.
If you get one, in any cartridge, do yourself a favor and buy a PAST shoulder pad so you do not get your shoulder beat up.

toby
08-19-2013, 8:14 PM
You want to step it up but not go big, look into a 25-06 great cartridge and better then most give it credit for.

jakuda
08-19-2013, 8:39 PM
I was also looking into this question as well. For hunting, it really depends on the area where you will hunt and what you will hunt. My mentor gave me this example, hunting white tail in the northwest states usually involves shots less than 100-150 yards. Lots of crawling through bush and trees. A 308 is perfectly fine, as well as a shorter barrel 18-20". Just something to think about.

DirtyDave
08-19-2013, 9:18 PM
Elaborate more on what you will be using it for. You mentioned hunting and tags, so I can safely say big game, but how big? Deer only? Deer and Pigs? Deer, Pigs, and Bear?

Thomas83
08-19-2013, 9:27 PM
Wow, thank you all very much for your input, good, bad, or indifferent, I have one other question for you guys. Will the 270 & 243 cartridges work for deer or bear?

I will look for the Stevens 200 and something in 25-06 in the meantime.

Thomas83
08-19-2013, 9:34 PM
Elaborate more on what you will be using it for. You mentioned hunting and tags, so I can safely say big game, but how big? Deer only? Deer and Pigs? Deer, Pigs, and Bear?

Well not too sure on the capabilities of each cartridge except for the .308. I know my 22-250 will take down a medium sized hog but not much more. I'm looking to step it up a bit. I'd like to try my hand at deer and/or bear eventually. It's kinda going to be a seasonal gun.

NorCalFocus
08-19-2013, 9:40 PM
The .243 will work for deer, I'd want more for a bear.

The .270 will work for both.

The other thing to consider is if you reload or not. Try finding .308 and .243 in a store right now. Then look at .270 and 30-06. Theres a ton more .270 out there and better selection of it. However if you hand load, its a moot point.

Gnome
08-20-2013, 8:30 PM
Gentlemen,

I know nothing of hunting and various hunting calibers, but someone once told me the 30-06 round was good enough to take down any and all North American game. Any truth to this?

chad allred
08-20-2013, 8:44 PM
Sure...its all about bullet quality and shot placement.
I just bought an American in 243 from turners.was $388 including tax for the rifle and $30 for the dros/fees.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 4

ar15barrels
08-20-2013, 9:33 PM
someone once told me the 30-06 round was good enough to take down any and all North American game. Any truth to this?

Yes.

NorCalFocus
08-20-2013, 9:52 PM
Yup. 30-06 will kill anything in N America.

Divernhunter
08-21-2013, 1:27 PM
Also most game around the world. Same with 308win which was the replacement mil cartridge. The 308win works at higher pressures so it get about the same performance. It is all about bullet selection and placement.

rm1911
08-21-2013, 2:53 PM
30-06 or 270 (which is just the '06 necked down) or 308 will kill anything in north america. none is necessarily "better" than the other. plenty of bullet selection, all have plenty of availability, all wonderful to reload for as in lots of powders work well for them. I hunt with an '06 because I found one a long time ago for cheap and it shoots great. so why bother with another. and of course I have two garands and it makes reloading easier.

the real issue is not the round but the shooter. most hunting will be under, probably well under, 400 yards. and honestly if you shoot farther, don't. it's just too many variables (distance, wind, stable rest, etc.) to make a clean kill, then you have to track and find it, and well, long shots are not really gonna work alot of the time for hunting.

so the burden is on the shooter. the rifle, a ruger american, a savage axis, or whatever more expensive rifle, will be fine. plenty accurate, far more than necesary. hell, how many deer have been killed with the 30-30, not known as a tackdriver??? you need to practice, and not just 5 rounds off a bench then hunt.

rm1911
08-21-2013, 2:55 PM
30-06 or 270 (which is just the '06 necked down) or 308 will kill anything in north america. none is necessarily "better" than the other. plenty of bullet selection, all have plenty of availability, all wonderful to reload for as in lots of powders work well for them. I hunt with an '06 because I found one a long time ago for cheap and it shoots great. so why bother with another. and of course I have two garands and it makes reloading easier.

the real issue is not the round but the shooter. most hunting will be under, probably well under, 400 yards. and honestly if you shoot farther, don't. it's just too many variables (distance, wind, stable rest, etc.) to make a clean kill, then you have to track and find it, and well, long shots are not really gonna work alot of the time for hunting.

so the burden is on the shooter. the rifle, a ruger american, a savage axis, or whatever more expensive rifle, will be fine. plenty accurate, far more than necesary. hell, how many deer have been killed with the 30-30, not known as a tackdriver??? you need to practice, and not just 5 rounds off a bench then hunt.

bitethebullet
08-21-2013, 7:05 PM
If you're not shooting a bunch, I would go with a 30-06. It will shoot a wide range of bullet weights so you can tailor the round for almost anything. From low recoil powder-puff loads to full-tilt 220gr. For me, the amount of rounds sent down range and only having a slight limitation on bullet choice compared to the 06 the .308 was a no brainer. It uses less powder, kicks slightly less, and has the same performance as the 06 within the same bullet weights.

kcheung2
08-22-2013, 8:01 PM
Another option in your price range is the Marlin XS7 line.

frankm
08-22-2013, 9:10 PM
I've been researching the 7mm-08 for a potential future buy. Maybe others can tell you more about it?

ar15barrels
08-22-2013, 9:51 PM
I've been researching the 7mm-08 for a potential future buy. Maybe others can tell you more about it?

Great cartridge if you reload.

Ike Arumba
08-22-2013, 10:11 PM
A couple of takes on the 7mm-08:
http://www.6mmbr.com/7mm284.html#7mm08
http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/7mm-08+Remington.html

Kelster1574
10-09-2013, 9:04 PM
Just wondering what the OP purchased? and your thoughts on it? I just jailed a Ruger American in .243....why you ask, not sure. I was picking up the Savage Axis Youth in .243 for my boys and thought...I have a variety of other calibers but not a .243. They had a good price, $335 so I bought it, now just have to figure out what to use it for....lol

toby
10-10-2013, 4:47 AM
You will be very very happy with a 270. for a hunting rifle you would never use 220 grain bullets in an 30-06 nor the STUPID 55 grain accelerators. I have had a few 06's over a 40 year span and only took one animal with one of them. I much rather shoot my 270 or one of my 25 caliber rifles. IMO

lewdogg21
10-10-2013, 5:38 AM
Not to nitpick prior posts but yes technically the .30-06 will kill anything in NA, for the largest bears, sheep, and goats a larger caliber would be better. I personally would use a .338 win mag for the bears and a 300 win mag or other for the sheep/goats.

It's the same "I can kill a deer with a 22-250 so why use something else" argument. I only point this out b/c calguns is literally boiling over with people who know very little or are just starting to get into hunting. I prefer they be given the proper info so they don't spread FUD to others.

Simi-Surfer
10-10-2013, 7:52 AM
30-06 would be a good choice. Multiple grains to choose from, can find the cartridge just about anywhere. Just picked up a Savage Trophy Hunter XP 30-06, was going to get the Ruger American, but decided on the Savage after shooting both and liked the adjustable trigger and feel of the bolt action - just my preference both are great rifles.

1859sharps
10-10-2013, 8:10 AM
30-06 is a great round, but its a hunting round. Its not something you want to shoot all day long at the range.

well actually.... 30-06 started out as a military round and 2 entire world wars was fought, with it as well as some bush wars in between and the Korean war.

1859sharps
10-10-2013, 8:13 AM
Not to nitpick prior posts but yes technically the .30-06 will kill anything in NA, for the largest bears, sheep, and goats a larger caliber would be better. I personally would use a .338 win mag for the bears and a 300 win mag or other for the sheep/goats.

It's the same "I can kill a deer with a 22-250 so why use something else" argument. I only point this out b/c calguns is literally boiling over with people who know very little or are just starting to get into hunting. I prefer they be given the proper info so they don't spread FUD to others.

just out of curiosity....what were bears and goats taken with before .338 and .300 win mag was available?

shot placement trumps your argument for the magnum calibers ;)

lewdogg21
10-10-2013, 9:10 AM
Sharps - new technology equals flatter shooting where needed for above treeline alpine hunts on sheep and goats. Sure Jack OConnor used. 270. Of course he shot more animals per year than most of us in a lifetime.

The shot placement arguement notwithstanding are you going to recommend a .30-06 over a .338 win mag or other for brown bears? The answer is no. If nit your guide may want a say in that. ;)

It all works , some just work a little better.

I suppose the number of people who do these hunts on calguns is miniscule. Instead we get the "where can I shoot pigs with my 223 AR " question seemingly weekly in the hunting forum. Hence my aggressive response; think of it as the FUD derailer.

NorCalFocus
10-10-2013, 9:56 AM
Not to nitpick prior posts but yes technically the .30-06 will kill anything in NA, for the largest bears, sheep, and goats a larger caliber would be better. I personally would use a .338 win mag for the bears and a 300 win mag or other for the sheep/goats.

It's the same "I can kill a deer with a 22-250 so why use something else" argument. I only point this out b/c calguns is literally boiling over with people who know very little or are just starting to get into hunting. I prefer they be given the proper info so they don't spread FUD to others.

Quoted for Truth.

I read all the time, just get a .223, it uses the same ammo as your AR and you can kill deer with it. I've never in my life meet a person who has hunted deer, antelope, goats with a .223.

well actually.... 30-06 started out as a military round and 2 entire world wars was fought, with it as well as some bush wars in between and the Korean war.

Yes it started out that way. Then the military replaced it with the .308. But because of the old military guns being sold and turned into hunting rifles, it has evolved into a hunting round by todays standards.


Also the arguement of well people killed lots of animals before all these modern rounds....I ask you then, do you still drive the same truck as they did back then? Do you still use the same clothing?

Yes I hunt with a 30/30. But it has modern bullets, handloaded.

1859sharps
10-10-2013, 2:05 PM
The shot placement arguement notwithstanding are you going to recommend a .30-06 over a .338 win mag or other for brown bears?

Sure, why wouldn't you feel you could take a brown bear with a 30-06?

now if you want to talk about a Grizzly, I would still argue the 30-06 could get the job done. But is there possibly better choices that leave less to skill/experience...yes, there is. 45-70 comes to mind.

with the exception of Grizzly and Bison, I can't think of a single thing in NA that the 30-06 can't easily deal with. In the case of Grizzly and Bison, it would still work, but might not be the best choice for a beginning hunter. on the other hand, if the hunter doesn't like the "feel" of shooting a magnum...then using a 30-06 that they WILL practice with is better than handing them a magnum they aren't comfortable with.

even with magnum calibers, shot placement is important. Knowledge of where to shoot the game is very important to achieving a ethical outcome of a clean kill.

Also the arguement of well people killed lots of animals before all these modern rounds....I ask you then, do you still drive the same truck as they did back then? Do you still use the same clothing?

Yes I hunt with a 30/30. But it has modern bullets, handloaded.

If the old truck is still functioning, wouldn't it still get you from point A to point B and do so hauling cargo. or does a new truck coming along some how make the old truck stop functioning suddenly?

That there is something newer, maybe better (and better can often be highly subjective and dependent on how you define better) does not suddenly make the "old" stop working.

for years and years the 30-06 ruled, got the job done. that there is now a .338 or 300 magnum option does not some how mystically cause the 30-06 to stop functioning. It isn't like yesterday the 30-06 was taking game then suddenly started bouncing off their skin now that the .338 or .300 magnums show up.

I am not anti magnum, but I think their value is over played sometimes and in some situations.

I would actually feel very comfortable hunting Grizzly and Bison, and just about anything else walking around NA with a 45-70 and that is even older than the 30-06.

New "sexy" rounds do not make the old effective rounds stop functioning. can the new round do a better job...maybe, or maybe they just have better marketing. but that is for you to research and decide.

I do agree with the essence of what I think you are getting at...bring enough gun to do the job right. but there are plenty of rounds that are "old" and not magnums that are still plenty of "gun".

tcd511
10-10-2013, 3:26 PM
This is the age old battle, 30-06 vs .270 vs .308. It would be nice if you had a friend or family member that had the calibers you are looking at for you to shoot. Everyone has their favorite but as you can see there are many who have at least 2 hunting rifles for different situations. As someone mentioned above if your shot is 100 to 150 or and your in thick brush a .308 or my personal favorite the .30-30 would be an excellent choice 150 out to 325 you can't go wrong with the 06 or 270 because again I believe for many it's just their personal favorite that they have been using or grew up using. In my case I grew up with the .270 and 30-30. This combination has worked well for me (i'm 47) so have never seen the need to change what has been good for me since I was 15. Hope you can find what works and is good for you.

tcd511
10-10-2013, 3:33 PM
Quoted for Truth.

I read all the time, just get a .223, it uses the same ammo as your AR and you can kill deer with it. I've never in my life meet a person who has hunted deer, antelope, goats with a .223.



Yes it started out that way. Then the military replaced it with the .308. But because of the old military guns being sold and turned into hunting rifles, it has evolved into a hunting round by todays standards.


Also the arguement of well people killed lots of animals before all these modern rounds....I ask you then, do you still drive the same truck as they did back then? Do you still use the same clothing?

Yes I hunt with a 30/30. But it has modern bullets, handloaded.

That's a very good point for the OP that I hadn't thought of until I read your post. While my 30-30 has been a great gun. Todays modern rounds have been a big improvement for it.

Garandimal
10-16-2013, 8:36 AM
A 150 gr. .270Win will do 98% of what a 180 gr. 30-06 will do, and will kick less and shoot a little flatter doin'it. (And the ammo is readily available and reasonably priced.)

In a light rifle? 270Win/280Rem for a long action, 7mm-08 or 260Rem for a short action.




GR