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View Full Version : SB 53: How will it change your behavior?


Fritz265
08-14-2013, 7:35 PM
Will you stock up? Plan out of state trips? Suck it up and suffer without?

MakeYaBootyBurn
08-14-2013, 7:39 PM
moving to Oregon in march. so I would only have to deal with the BS for a short while

Fritz265
08-14-2013, 7:51 PM
As far as I can tell, if it passes ( and I think it will) it won't go into effect until 2015. By then, I'll be in Dallas taking tens of thousands in tax dollars with me.

toby
08-14-2013, 8:00 PM
Just another bump in the road.

Jester3
08-14-2013, 8:05 PM
Just another bump in the road.

You got it bro.. No matter who we vote for or contribute our cash to, the powers that be will put their laws onto us in Calif., then spread to the rest of the country like a fungus. :(

cmace22
08-14-2013, 8:16 PM
moving to Oregon in march. so I would only have to deal with the BS for a short while

Right behind you moving in July!

diverwcw
08-14-2013, 8:23 PM
Ship orders to a friend in Arizona and bring back the ammo as necessary.

Fritz265
08-14-2013, 8:25 PM
Just another bump in the road.

I see this one as more than a bump. A bullet button and a ten round mag is a bump. A background check and a ten day wait is a bump. Forcing a registry in order to buy ammo face to face only from DOJ approved vendors that also need to be licensed changes everything. Limiting where, when and how much ammo one can buy is probably the most stringent anti-gun control ever implemented in this state thus far.

fighter4cage
08-14-2013, 8:26 PM
Moving out of state soon

Fritz265
08-14-2013, 8:26 PM
Ship orders to a friend in Arizona and bring back the ammo as necessary.

Rather than do that, why not simply move to AZ yourself?

Stewdabaker23
08-14-2013, 8:29 PM
Until I move to Idaho in a few years I will be purchasing all my ammo when I go to Idaho and Nevada for work every week.

toby
08-14-2013, 8:31 PM
I see this one as more than a bump. A bullet button and a ten round mag is a bump. A background check and a ten day wait is a bump. Forcing a registry in order to buy ammo face to face only from DOJ approved vendors that also need to be licensed changes everything. Limiting where, when and how much ammo one can buy is probably the most stringent anti-gun control every implemented in this state thus far.

Well I was referring just to my needs being the thread asked how it will change your/my behavior? I should have said it's just a bump for me. I have not bought factory ammo in over 25 years and have no current plans to change, So unless they include reloading items in this is just a bump for people like myself though it does suck for others.:cool:

golfish
08-14-2013, 8:33 PM
I'm going to move to Mars......

Dhena81
08-14-2013, 8:34 PM
I'll be driving out of state with thousands of dollars and contributing my money to other states. In the near future I will be leaving this state for good but the time is not right. The Mrs. needs to finish law school and take the bar for the other state which looks like it will be Texas.

Glamis
08-14-2013, 8:34 PM
I ship most things to my N.V. address now anyway. ammo will just be the next thing on that list. I would like to open an ammo store at Primm "State line" with a drive throw window.


I'm moving to N.V. anyways my work is closing down all of are CA warehouse. cheaper to deal with shipping then the state of CA and LA county.

MakeYaBootyBurn
08-14-2013, 8:44 PM
I ship most things to my N.V. address now anyway. ammo will just be the next thing on that list. I would like to open an ammo store at Primm "State line" with a drive throw window.


I'm moving to N.V. anyways my work is closing down all of are CA warehouse. cheaper to deal with shipping then the state of CA and LA county.

I like that business idea!

Fritz265
08-14-2013, 8:44 PM
Well I was referring just to my needs being the thread asked how it will change your/my behavior? I should have said it's just a bump for me. I have not bought factory ammo in over 25 years and have no current plans to change, So unless they include reloading items in this is just a bump for people like myself though it does suck for others.:cool:

Do you honestly think that this won't apply to reloading components?

Metal God
08-14-2013, 8:47 PM
So I was just reading the law and OMG http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=201320140SB53. There they go again , claiming it is so they can make sure people that are not aloud to own firearms are not buying ammo . After all why would you need to by ammo if your not aloud to own a firearm . On it face it makes since but what it really is doing is putting in place a mechanism that would make it possible to deny all persons from buying ammo or at the very least intimidate law abiding people from buying ammo.

No where in the new text does it say they shall issue ammo vender licenses . How many stores do think are going to say It's just not worth the hassle and paper work to sell ammo .

This is just part one of many here . There is also AB-48 / AB-187 / AB-760 / SB-53

Here is a list of all the Firearm related laws this year .
http://www.crpa.org/2013-bill-status-update/

find your reps and write
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=516253&highlight=links+to+write+your+reps+in+ca

toby
08-14-2013, 8:49 PM
Do you honestly think that this won't apply to reloading components?

For now as far as I read none are stated. When it does I will be out the door, Gone to another state. As a matter of fact I don't even think what they have on it now will come full circle. I can dream can't I?

Danomite556
08-14-2013, 8:49 PM
I ship most things to my N.V. address now anyway. ammo will just be the next thing on that list. I would like to open an ammo store at Primm "State line" with a drive throw window.


I'm moving to N.V. anyways my work is closing down all of are CA warehouse. cheaper to deal with shipping then the state of CA and LA county.

:iagree:

1CavScout
08-14-2013, 8:52 PM
I buy most of my ammo in AZ right now as it is. I guess I will just buy all of it there.

RotaryRevn
08-14-2013, 8:55 PM
If someone could relate the huge loss in tax dollars to the Gov., he probably wouldn't sign it.

Yugo
08-14-2013, 8:57 PM
You move and then other states make the same laws until the whole US is a gun free zone! THEN and ONLY then will we see if a second revolution starts.

Steve_In_29
08-14-2013, 8:59 PM
Well I was referring just to my needs being the thread asked how it will change your/my behavior? I should have said it's just a bump for me. I have not bought factory ammo in over 25 years and have no current plans to change, So unless they include reloading items in this is just a bump for people like myself though it does suck for others.:cool:
Can't reload .22 though.

MrPlink
08-14-2013, 9:00 PM
Ill still buy in state. In bulk too. 1 rd at a time so I can try to drown Sacto in paperwork

Fritz265
08-14-2013, 9:01 PM
For now as far as I read none are stated. When it does I will be out the door, Gone to another state. As a matter of fact I don't even think what they have on it now will come full circle. I can dream can't I?

As far as I can see, it doesn't address reloading at all, if for your own personal use because you cannot sell it to anybody unless you're a licensed vendor selling to someone on the approved registry.

You know they'll be coming for reloading components next if this passes. But I'll envy the reloading community for awhile.

Fritz265
08-14-2013, 9:02 PM
Ill still buy in state. In bulk too. 1 rd at a time so I can try to drown Sacto in paperwork

LOL..

SOAR79
08-14-2013, 9:02 PM
Ill still buy in state. In bulk too. 1 rd at a time so I can try to drown Sacto in paperwork

this is probably the best thing we can do!

Fritz265
08-14-2013, 9:03 PM
If someone could relate the huge loss in tax dollars to the Gov., he probably wouldn't sign it.

You assume that liberals EVER consider the unintended financial consequences of anything they pass. They don't care. To them, it's as easy as raising taxes when funds run short.

neomedic
08-14-2013, 9:04 PM
What about the ranges that require you to use their ammo if renting a gun? How will you buy the ammo for the range rental? Will you need to fill paper work?

Fritz265
08-14-2013, 9:05 PM
this is probably the best thing we can do!

Sounds fun but it doesn't work that way. You'll pay your $50 for your background be entered into the registry that's good for one year.

You go to an authorized vendor to buy ammo, they simply match your ID to the registry. Buying one round at a time won't hurt anybody but you.

Fritz265
08-14-2013, 9:11 PM
What about the ranges that require you to use their ammo if renting a gun? How will you buy the ammo for the range rental? Will you need to fill paper work?

Can't determine. As far as I can tell, you can't purchase ammo at all unless you have an Ammunition Purchase Authorization, or otherwise, some other specific forms of firearm permits.

Read and let me know if you see anything different:

http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=201320140SB53

sd_shooter
08-14-2013, 9:13 PM
This is going to kill ammo sales.

It will probably bring the entire firearms industry with it in CA. Why would they want to stay? :facepalm:

Lugiahua
08-14-2013, 9:20 PM
I will be in Washington by this time next year...

DirtyRussianAmmo
08-14-2013, 9:20 PM
What about CA Indian reservations? If SB 53 passes, they could get into the ammo biz and clean up!

ziconceo
08-14-2013, 9:21 PM
What about civil disobedience? :43: Its already so bad there isn't much more to lose on gun rights...

Fritz265
08-14-2013, 9:31 PM
This is going to kill ammo sales.

It will probably bring the entire firearms industry with it in CA. Why would they want to stay? :facepalm:

CA has a firearms industry?

1nickatnite1
08-14-2013, 9:32 PM
Instead of bailing out or saying "I reload so I'm ok" please donate your next ammo purchase $ to calguns. We all know this is going to court and it won't be cheap. Every gun owner in here can spare some cash to preserve all of our rights.

Fritz265
08-14-2013, 9:36 PM
Instead of bailing out or saying "I reload so I'm ok" please donate your next ammo purchase $ to calguns. We all know this is going to court and it won't be cheap. Every gun owner in here can spare some cash to preserve all of our rights.

^^^^^^^^^^
X1000

I've already sent a ton of money to Calguns and the NRA to fight this nonsense but Democrats are taking their supermajority for a test drive while they have it and are going to pass almost every gun-control bill they can in this session to get it on the books and they'll duke it out later knowing that many will stick. There simply isn't enough money to fight them all and they know that.

Fritz265
08-14-2013, 9:46 PM
This is going to kill ammo sales.

It will probably bring the entire firearms industry with it in CA. Why would they want to stay? :facepalm:

What it WILL kill are the people who want to go to a range with their kid once in their lifetime who, in turn, become avid shooters. The infrequent shooters won't want to pay the fee, and go through the paperwork necessary because the ammo authorization process can take up to 30 days.

Metal God
08-14-2013, 9:47 PM
AB-760 Summary: Proposes to impose a tax of .05 per item of ammunition or reloading components sold at retail. Not sure what per item means . Per bullet or per box of bullets ? Per box of primers or per primer ?

Check out section #1 below . Nice to see they get to redact a large portion of what they believed to be fact so to levy taxes . I sure wish I could just make stuff up to get what I want and when it's found not to be true I just make something else up that's the opposite to get what I want . Wow ,first they try to sell it one way and if that don't work the make the opposite argument for the same thing . who writes this crap .
http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=201320140AB760

Steve_In_29
08-14-2013, 10:00 PM
What about civil disobedience? :43: Its already so bad there isn't much more to lose on gun rights...
How do you practice "civil disobedience" when the store simply tells you "no-premit-no-ammo"?

I won't be getting any fricking permit and have been stocking up. Also if all these bills pass I will definitely be moving out of CA after I retire in 2015.

fmunk
08-14-2013, 10:40 PM
This is going to kill ammo sales.

It will probably bring the entire firearms industry with it in CA. Why would they want to stay? :facepalm:


CA has a firearms industry?

No kidding. Hardly any. Only one I know of is FMK.

Ammo sales will just go out of state and luckily we have Nevada right next door. As for killing off gun shops, let's not get overly dramatic. This isn't your daytime soap. Some owners with less heart will probably call it quits. The smart ones will know any restriction Sacramento puts up is just going to drive up demand and prices/profits along with it. Haven't you learned anything from the panic frenzy we just had?

Fritz265
08-14-2013, 10:53 PM
I'm sure you'll all be happy to know that blanks are specifically excluded from this legislation.

Fire away boys!

Mizouse
08-14-2013, 11:36 PM
If it passes, gives me another reason to visit Vegas ;)

infringed711
08-14-2013, 11:49 PM
Be taking a truck to as every few months and buying a few thousand rounds

Munny$hot
08-15-2013, 12:00 AM
Well I was referring just to my needs being the thread asked how it will change your/my behavior? I should have said it's just a bump for me. I have not bought factory ammo in over 25 years and have no current plans to change, So unless they include reloading items in this is just a bump for people like myself though it does suck for others.:cool:

This is why laws like this get passed because it doesn't affect some people, so they don't call their Representative and voice their opinions. The left knows this so they start dividing and ban things little by little since it easier than everything all at once. Just like if a high power bolt action guy says "well I don't own any semis so I don't care", but as soon as bolt actions become "Sniper Rifles", is when their panties get all in a bunch. We need to stand all together and not let them take any of our rights away no matter what...

Bud_Dub
08-15-2013, 12:31 AM
I got my LTC from Chuckie Cheese for straw and spit balls. :cool2:

JDPhx501
08-15-2013, 2:34 AM
This is why laws like this get passed because it doesn't affect some people, so they don't call their Representative and voice their opinions. The left knows this so they start dividing and ban things little by little since it easier than everything all at once. Just like if a high power bolt action guy says "well I don't own any semis so I don't care", but as soon as bolt actions become "Sniper Rifles", is when their panties get all in a bunch. We need to stand all together and not let them take any of our rights away no matter what...

Was not surprised at hearing the news today but not unhappy and displeased all the same.

I still had a moment of schadenfreud thinking about all those hunters and skeet shooters who frown at "assault weapons" and ask "why do you need 30 rounds to hunt" and so threw us under the bus because now they get to suffer along side the rest of us since their stuff runs on the same fuel.

MakeYaBootyBurn
08-15-2013, 2:56 AM
Instead of bailing out or saying "I reload so I'm ok" please donate your next ammo purchase $ to calguns. We all know this is going to court and it won't be cheap. Every gun owner in here can spare some cash to preserve all of our rights.

clearly "fighting for gun rights in Cali" is not working when we still have the AWB going on 10 years now. still have a 10 round limit. still have to use BB. is still a may issue state... I can go on & on.... no more open carry....

at what point do you realize that, even though your intentions are good, you're losing the war (in this state) & wasting your money?

toby
08-15-2013, 5:32 AM
This is why laws like this get passed because it doesn't affect some people, so they don't call their Representative and voice their opinions. The left knows this so they start dividing and ban things little by little since it easier than everything all at once. Just like if a high power bolt action guy says "well I don't own any semis so I don't care", but as soon as bolt actions become "Sniper Rifles", is when their panties get all in a bunch. We need to stand all together and not let them take any of our rights away no matter what...

Can you please show me where if at all I stated I have done nothing about this situation, cuz I sure as hell don't remember typing it.....:facepalm:. Why do people like you always take something and make into what they want it to read?:facepalm:

GoingPro
08-15-2013, 6:49 AM
Ship orders to a friend in Arizona and bring back the ammo as necessary.

Thats a good idea, i didnt think of this.... ****. I am sure smuggling in ammo will be treated as a crime like they do with fireworks.... we will soon see signs coming into california that smuggling in ammo is a felony lolz

GoingPro
08-15-2013, 6:51 AM
I hope some day these Senators will come out with a story about drugs or prostitutes or something that will destroy their career.... What goes around comes around eventually.

Elwood_Blues
08-15-2013, 8:03 AM
Thats a good idea, i didnt think of this.... ****. I am sure smuggling in ammo will be treated as a crime like they do with fireworks.... we will soon see signs coming into california that smuggling in ammo is a felony lolz

No sir, this is just my personal stash that I take with me on the hunting trips to NV, AZ.

-hanko
08-15-2013, 8:14 AM
Instead of bailing out or saying "I reload so I'm ok" please donate your next ammo purchase $ to calguns. We all know this is going to court and it won't be cheap. Every gun owner in here can spare some cash to preserve all of our rights.
We all know...

It will go to court.

It will not be cheap.

It will take forever, and then be tossed out of court.

Check your history since the 2001 California "assault" weapon ban.

Follow the money.;)

-hanko

Hunter47
08-15-2013, 8:17 AM
Not to project any kind of a defeatist attitude but our chances are better to beat this crap in court just like the last Ammo restriction law. I encourage everyone to contribute $$s to Calguns and especially to California Rifle and Pistol Association. These guys are on the front lines fighting for our rights. Don't go running. Fight these tards at every possible chance.

G21Shooter
08-15-2013, 8:29 AM
Thats a good idea, i didnt think of this.... ****. I am sure smuggling in ammo will be treated as a crime like they do with fireworks.... we will soon see signs coming into california that smuggling in ammo is a felony lolz

Yeah that is what I was thinking too, and California will probably make a law saying you can't go out of state to buy ammo and bring in back. There is going to be a point we need to put our foot down and say "**** you".

Hopefully online ammo vendors will be supportive of us and let our billing address be in California and our shipping address a friend/family member in another state. Could California penalize out of state ammo vendors for letting someone in CA pay for ammo and have it shipped else where?

REH
08-15-2013, 8:31 AM
Was not surprised at hearing the news today but not unhappy and displeased all the same.

I still had a moment of schadenfreud thinking about all those hunters and skeet shooters who frown at "assault weapons" and ask "why do you need 30 rounds to hunt" and so threw us under the bus because now they get to suffer along side the rest of us since their stuff runs on the same fuel.

Very good point............

6Rich7
08-15-2013, 8:38 AM
I agree, fight it out in court. Every description of the Bills proposed. Focus on the target. Spread the word. Call your local representative and let them have it. And unleash the votes come election day. Keep the faith!!

Munny$hot
08-15-2013, 8:38 AM
Can you please show me where if at all I stated I have done nothing about this situation, cuz I sure as hell don't remember typing it.....:facepalm:. Why do people like you always take something and make into what they want it to read?:facepalm:

Just being a "bump for some people" is what I was referring to. Maybe I took it out of context, but when we as a whole don't fight the stupidity of the majority of the left for minor bumps is how they start banning/limiting our rights. After all these years of going though this crap the way the Democrats gets things done is rip apart your freedoms one by one, by separating and dividing, Taxing the crap out of everything, or banning things "my favorite quote" "in the name of the children, we must do it to save the children ". I had my dumb arse brother in law debate with me over the need for 30 round mags and how hunters didn't need 30 round mags, but when I explained not everyone who shoots is a hunter and how action shooters need them, his mind was still closed and said well we need to do something so gangs don't get a hold of them. I don't know about you but I never heard of a gang member not getting charged with a gun violation because he had a CA compliant gun.

someR1
08-15-2013, 8:47 AM
a small bump in the road? GTFO.

These @ssholes are going to rain down on us hard my friends. With 100 pound bricks.

robcoe
08-15-2013, 8:48 AM
If it goes through well, I own a 1/2 ton van and I like visiting Vegas anyway.

VarmintKiller
08-15-2013, 8:49 AM
I buy ammo where the deal is. Otherwise I buy out of state to save on sales tax. I'll just start buying everything from out of state. My FFL operates from his ranch so I just go to him for transfers and new gun orders.

I also cast my own bullets and reload so there's a lot of ways around this law.

We are in a state that doesn't want guns here. There is no way to stop the anti-gun machine. All we can do is try to counter as they close in on us. I donate money to try and fight this, but I think it's a futile effort.

TS77
08-15-2013, 8:53 AM
I'm going to melt down all my guns and take up knitting

NHP1127
08-15-2013, 8:56 AM
The gun and ammo grab by Obama / Biden / Feinstein has done nothing but sell a multitude of more guns and ammo.

The average gun owner has more ammo stock piled than ever before. Hilarious.

Fritz265
08-15-2013, 9:09 AM
Yeah that is what I was thinking too, and California will probably make a law saying you can't go out of state to buy ammo and bring in back. There is going to be a point we need to put our foot down and say "**** you".

Hopefully online ammo vendors will be supportive of us and let our billing address be in California and our shipping address a friend/family member in another state. Could California penalize out of state ammo vendors for letting someone in CA pay for ammo and have it shipped else where?

The test will be to see how many out of state ammo vendors, retail or private, will want to have to send ammo to a properly licensed CA vendor as they have to do for firearms today. I suspect many will just write CA buyers off and move on. Out of staters just won't want to have to try to decipher CA laws.

Fritz265
08-15-2013, 9:11 AM
I agree, fight it out in court. Every description of the Bills proposed. Focus on the target. Spread the word. Call your local representative and let them have it. And unleash the votes come election day. Keep the faith!!

The liberal regime in Sacramento know that the Pro-2A folks only have a limited amount of money to put up a fight so they're going to pass EVERY anti-gun law they can this session, as ridiculous as most of them are, knowing that some will be challenged but most will stick.

That's the new tactic with the liberal supermajority. It's going to get really bad, really fast for us.

Fritz265
08-15-2013, 9:21 AM
The gun and ammo grab by Obama / Biden / Feinstein has done nothing but sell a multitude of more guns and ammo.

The average gun owner has more ammo stock piled than ever before. Hilarious.

I've been adding 1k rounds of 5.56 and 1k rounds of 45 ACP to my supply each month for the past year. It's going to be worth more than cash in 2015.

savannah
08-15-2013, 9:29 AM
Family out of state may be a good thing. But for right now donating to those who will fight against this stupid bill is the best choice.

California is only the first state to go down the drain. The rest will follow unless we fight with our dollars and letters.

Metal God
08-15-2013, 9:31 AM
The liberal regime in Sacramento know that the Pro-2A folks only have a limited amount of money to put up a fight so they're going to pass EVERY anti-gun law they can this session, as ridiculous as most of them are, knowing that some will be challenged but most will stick.


Yep ^ and now I get to say one of my favorite sayings .

They have a thousand lawers and a unlimited budget , What do we have ?

Fritz265
08-15-2013, 9:33 AM
Yep ^ and now I get to say one of my favorite sayings .

They have a thousand lawers and a unlimited budget , What do we have ?

WE have all of the guns. Unless we band together, we'll continue to get defeated. Like sheep to the slaughter.

Fritz265
08-15-2013, 9:35 AM
I was having a discussion the other day with a friend of mine who lives in Texas and he was adamant that what's happening in CA would NEVER happen in Texas.

I replied with a story about a discussion I was having 30 years ago with a fellow gun owner in NorCal (back when this state was free) that severe gun laws would NEVER be passed in California.

Yet, here we are.....

G21Shooter
08-15-2013, 10:06 AM
The test will be to see how many out of state ammo vendors, retail or private, will want to have to send ammo to a properly licensed CA vendor as they have to do for firearms today. I suspect many will just write CA buyers off and move on. Out of staters just won't want to have to try to decipher CA laws.

Exactly, just like how most out of state FFLs will not touch CA with a 10 foot pole.

Lesson here, stock up on ammo NOW, and continue stocking up until SB 53 goes into effect. If by some miracle it does not pass, well you need the ammo anyways.

Even on a reasonable budget one could stock 3-5 years worth of range ammo between now and when SB53 goes in effect.

Fritz265
08-15-2013, 10:15 AM
Exactly, just like how most out of state FFLs will not touch CA with a 10 foot pole.

Lesson here, stock up on ammo NOW, and continue stocking up until SB 53 goes into effect. If by some miracle it does not pass, well you need the ammo anyways.

Even on a reasonable budget one could stock 3-5 years worth of range ammo between now and when SB53 goes in effect.

SB 53 WILL pass. I don't see any way that the state assembly won't pass it. There's no downside for them. Brown will sign it as soon as it hits his desk.

The ammo tax bill, on the other hand, is going to have more trouble.

VectorScalar
08-15-2013, 11:19 AM
http://www.friendsof1776.com/2009/04/smuggling-in-american-revolution.html?m=1

The Gleam
08-15-2013, 11:31 AM
Will you stock up? Plan out of state trips? Suck it up and suffer without?

Arizona sunsets are so pretty at this time of year. The cross-section of orange, red and purple hues are just amazing. On a clear day, you can almost imagine California. ;)

AKSOG
08-15-2013, 11:33 AM
It will motivate me to finally buy a reloading setup in 2014

kenworthxd
08-15-2013, 11:34 AM
No kidding. Hardly any. Only one I know of is FMK.

Ammo sales will just go out of state and luckily we have Nevada right next door. As for killing off gun shops, let's not get overly dramatic. This isn't your daytime soap. Some owners with less heart will probably call it quits. The smart ones will know any restriction Sacramento puts up is just going to drive up demand and prices/profits along with it. Haven't you learned anything from the panic frenzy we just had?

Weatherby is made in Paso Robles.

762.DEFENSE
08-15-2013, 11:34 AM
I'm moving. Already in the process of buying a place in Arizona. I'm tired of this state.

barrage
08-15-2013, 11:39 AM
Kind of makes me wonder how safe/easy/expensive it would be to start purchasing guns and ammo through Mexican cartels at this point.

Might as well start acting like a criminal if the State's hell bent on making me one.

the86d
08-15-2013, 11:40 AM
If you can refinance and rent your home for way more than your mortgage, then move.
AZ, the choice of the non-leach generation.

Scumbags are rampant here...

Compare states: http://freedominthe50states.org/

The Gleam
08-15-2013, 11:40 AM
I was having a discussion the other day with a friend of mine who lives in Texas and he was adamant that what's happening in CA would NEVER happen in Texas.

I replied with a story about a discussion I was having 30 years ago with a fellow gun owner in NorCal (back when this state was free) that severe gun laws would NEVER be passed in California.

Yet, here we are.....

I was just reading the other day how Dallas and Houston are starting to see an extreme Democrat/left influence on legislation. Texans will get bit the first time their arrogance has let their guard down, just as what happened in CA in the late 1990s; and then the flood-gates broke with Gray Davis and it hasn't been the same since. Texas is so likely to be blind-sided it won't know what hit them.

Why? Because they have the SAME problem California has; big cities with large centers of a neosocialist thinking populace dictating what they know as best for the 95% of the rest of the state that is rural, less dense in votership, and therefore at the whim of being outnumbered vocally and physically by left nanny-state well-wishers that exists in the congested cities.

I really believe Texas is the next state to suffer under the recent devices that have sprouted in CA, Colorado, Connecticut, and the like; states that used to be so 2nd Amendment friendly that guns were just a way of life.

mr2ndamendment
08-15-2013, 11:42 AM
I work for a major gun range/gun shop in SoCal and I can tell you that we are planning to deal with this head-on. We rent rifles, pistols, and shotguns and we sell our own reloaded ammo as well as factory ammo for our rentals and for customers who want to take it home.

The days of renting a gun and shooting it in the same day may be gone with all the red tape they're proposing. My worry is not really on anything else other than the fact that the DOJ issues ammo vending licenses. Much like the CCW situation, they could just decide not to issue vending licenses to anybody except suppliers of law enforcement, meaning nobody can sell ammo in the state. All ranges would die, gun shops would follow with it, and ranges would look different.

They know they can't attack the guns themselves as successfully as they can attack the ammo and the lifestyle. They're cutting off our posterity. They're attacking and eliminating the continuance of our heritage, and a generation from now, you'll have a group of kids who never got to shoot, who grew up and fell into their anti-gun message. This isn't about the ammo, it's about our rights continuing.

The Gleam
08-15-2013, 11:42 AM
Kind of makes me wonder how safe/easy/expensive it would be to start purchasing guns and ammo through Mexican cartels at this point.

Might as well start acting like a criminal if the State's hell bent on making me one.

Tell Eric I said "Hi".

Fritz265
08-15-2013, 12:08 PM
I was just reading the other day how Dallas and Houston are starting to see an extreme Democrat/left influence on legislation. Texans will get bit the first time their arrogance has let their guard down, just as what happened in CA in the late 1990s; and then the flood-gates broke with Gray Davis and it hasn't been the same since. Texas is so likely to be blind-sided it won't know what hit them.

Why? Because they have the SAME problem California has; big cities with large centers of a neosocialist thinking populace dictating what they know as best for the 95% of the rest of the state that is rural, less dense in votership, and therefore at the whim of being outnumbered vocally and physically by left nanny-state well-wishers that exists in the congested cities.

I really believe Texas is the next state to suffer under the recent devices that have sprouted in CA, Colorado, Connecticut, and the like; states that used to be so 2nd Amendment friendly that guns were just a way of life.

That's about right. What's happening in TX is exactly what happened to CA 30 years ago. A mass migration of left-leaning people were flowing in to the state from a recession-ridden east coast and mid-west in the 70s who were seeking new opportunities. Over the course of 30 years, they've turned this state into their old states.

The biggest state to state migration in 2013 is CA to TX. All of these left-leaning Californians are spawning entire neighborhoods in Texas of liberalism. Many in TX are aware of what's happening but they're trying to figure out how to deal with it.

Amazing how people flee the destruction of blue states only to recreate the destruction elsewhere.

Fritz265
08-15-2013, 12:11 PM
I work for a major gun range/gun shop in SoCal and I can tell you that we are planning to deal with this head-on. We rent rifles, pistols, and shotguns and we sell our own reloaded ammo as well as factory ammo for our rentals and for customers who want to take it home.

The days of renting a gun and shooting it in the same day may be gone with all the red tape they're proposing. My worry is not really on anything else other than the fact that the DOJ issues ammo vending licenses. Much like the CCW situation, they could just decide not to issue vending licenses to anybody except suppliers of law enforcement, meaning nobody can sell ammo in the state. All ranges would die, gun shops would follow with it, and ranges would look different.

They know they can't attack the guns themselves as successfully as they can attack the ammo and the lifestyle. They're cutting off our posterity. They're attacking and eliminating the continuance of our heritage, and a generation from now, you'll have a group of kids who never got to shoot, who grew up and fell into their anti-gun message. This isn't about the ammo, it's about our rights continuing.

BINGO! That's exactly their point. If the casual shooter can't walk in to a range with his or her spouse, son or daughter, to shoot because they're not authorized to buy ammo, then then we cannot spawn the next generation of shooting enthusiasts.

Ranges lose their cash cow and end up out of business. Only the hard core shooters will remain if they haven't already left the state.

kkp
08-15-2013, 12:11 PM
It will motivate me to finally buy a reloading setup in 2014

This. Plus, I see myself heading to Vegas a little more frequently. I'll just have to add some non-gambling dollars to the budget, and start buying ammo in bulk.

I need to make a friend in NV who will let me ship stuff to them!

GoingPro
08-15-2013, 12:24 PM
How much does a reload setup cost?

MaHoTex
08-15-2013, 12:36 PM
The way I read SB53 is that even if you buy it in NV or AZ and bring it back in your trunk, you are still liable for the tax.

Uhm... yeah... Check is in the mail dude...

Glad my folks have a place in Pahrump, that's all I can say about it.

MaHoTex
08-15-2013, 12:38 PM
How much does a reload setup cost?

Simple setup for around $100.
Components cost can exceed that by 10X.

Assuming SB53 goes through, it won't matter since you will be liable for the tax on the individual components too...

Munny$hot
08-15-2013, 12:38 PM
Bingo these laws are designed to discourage people from owning or shooting guns since it'll be expensive and a pain in the pattudy to get a licence to shoot.

As for the people who will stock pile or drive to another state to buy ammo will not want to shoot it due to being difficult to get and with the other factors I already mentioned all the ranges will eventually close. All of which will lead to banning all firearms because there will be no one who will care or enough of us left to fight.

DirtyRussianAmmo
08-15-2013, 12:40 PM
I just had an image of all of us saving our steel to reload it.

kkp
08-15-2013, 12:50 PM
How much does a reload setup cost?

Depends on what all you're trying to reload, of course. A simple setup to just reload .223/5.56 will cost a lot less than something that can reload nearly any round. A full setup will likely run around $600+ new, less if you can get used stuff or choose lower end reloading machinery instead of good stuff like Dillon.

http://brianenos.com/pages/dillon.html

kkp
08-15-2013, 12:51 PM
Simple setup for around $100.
Components cost can exceed that by 10X.

Assuming SB53 goes through, it won't matter since you will be liable for the tax on the individual components too...

Yeah, but it'll be a lot easier to drive back from Vegas with a truck full of primers than a truck full of fully ready-to-shoot ammo.

And where on earth are you getting a .223 reloading setup for $100?

Fritz265
08-15-2013, 12:55 PM
And where on earth are you getting a .223 reloading setup for $100?

I was going to ask the same thing.

MaHoTex
08-15-2013, 1:00 PM
Yeah, but it'll be a lot easier to drive back from Vegas with a truck full of primers than a truck full of fully ready-to-shoot ammo.

And where on earth are you getting a .223 reloading setup for $100?

How is it easier to bring components? Am I missing something?


Lee Single stage anniversary kit
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/423081/lee-challenger-breech-lock-single-stage-press-anniversary-kit

Add dies and your ready to go. I guess out the door would be closer to $150 or so.

I do every one of my 223 rifle loads on it and use the progressive for the pistol loads.

iron cannon
08-15-2013, 1:10 PM
Its made law , then people start going to surrounding states to buy... Only a matter of time till you cant bring ammo into californa.

kkp
08-15-2013, 1:13 PM
How is it easier to bring components? Am I missing something?

Let's assume they can't tax each component as if it was a full round of ammo, else assembling one round, you'd need to pay a tax on each of the brass, primer, lead, and powder. I'm guessing they'll tax either the primers or the lead as if each was a round, but frankly no one know exactly how this would be implemented. Regardless of which component gets taxed, the other components won't be. So you'll still be able to mail order the non-taxed components (brass, powder, etc).

As such, the only thing you need to bring home from Vegas is a bag full or primers, or a box full of the bullets. Either way, these are smaller, lighter, and more compact than actual boxes of ready-to-shoot ammo. That's how it's easier.

kkp
08-15-2013, 1:16 PM
Lee Single stage anniversary kit
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/423081/lee-challenger-breech-lock-single-stage-press-anniversary-kit

Add dies and your ready to go. I guess out the door would be closer to $150 or so.

I do every one of my 223 rifle loads on it and use the progressive for the pistol loads.

Interesting, thanks. How long does it take to process of batch of x number of rounds, start to finish? (perhaps take to PM so we don't derail this thread!)

MaHoTex
08-15-2013, 1:16 PM
Ah... Well.. From what I read in SB53 (though it seems a bit confusing) each component is taxed separately on its own.

PM Sent on reloading 223 rifle ammo.

Michael_Js
08-15-2013, 1:22 PM
damn you guys! I just bought 500 rounds of .45 ACP and 500 rounds of .38 special just now! Gotta keep stockpiled until I leave this state next year! :)

kkp
08-15-2013, 1:23 PM
Ah... Well.. From what I read in SB53 (though it seems a bit confusing) each component is taxed separately on its own.

I think they have some clarification work to do before the bill is final, else if that's taken literally, one single round of hand loaded ammo would be taxed as if it was 4-5 rounds. That will not withstand a court challenge. And for how many rounds do you tax loose powder, considering there is no way to know whether you are reloading 20 grain .22lr or 123 grain 6.5 Grendel.

ojisan
08-15-2013, 1:32 PM
Gun makers in CA, I'm sure there are more.
Accu Tek
Phoenix
FMK
Weatherby (didn't know that one)
Franklin

Ammo...the new black market!

And really, does CA think the bangers will not go to Las Vegas, Reno and other border towns to buy ammo?
:facepalm:

Fritz265
08-15-2013, 1:37 PM
damn you guys! I just bought 500 rounds of .45 ACP and 500 rounds of .38 special just now! Gotta keep stockpiled until I leave this state next year! :)

Not bad for a day's work. Now keep at it...

G21Shooter
08-15-2013, 1:55 PM
SB 53 WILL pass. I don't see any way that the state assembly won't pass it. There's no downside for them. Brown will sign it as soon as it hits his desk.

The ammo tax bill, on the other hand, is going to have more trouble.

That is what everyone said the last two times the ammo mail order ban was looming, and both times it did not happen. How is will this time be any different now that the law is even worse? Just trying to be a glass half full sorta dude lol

Fritz265
08-15-2013, 1:57 PM
That is what everyone said the last two times the ammo mail order ban was looming, and both times it did not happen. How is will this time be any different now that the law is even worse? Just trying to be a glass half full sorta dude lol

One reason and one reason only: DEMOCRATIC SUPERMAJORITY

JohnnyPark805
08-15-2013, 2:18 PM
Interesting, thanks. How long does it take to process of batch of x number of rounds, start to finish? (perhaps take to PM so we don't derail this thread!)

prep takes the longest, once everything is prepped, it goes pretty fast.
I can do about 100 rounds of 45acp in about an hour

Fritz265
08-15-2013, 2:20 PM
prep takes the longest, once everything is prepped, it goes pretty fast.
I can do about 100 rounds of 45acp in about an hour

100 in an hour? I shoot faster than that. I'm gonna need a bigger setup....

JohnnyPark805
08-15-2013, 2:41 PM
100 in an hour? I shoot faster than that. I'm gonna need a bigger setup....

I use a single press, turret presses can go much faster. some of those $800 kits can load about 200-300 an hour

Fritz265
08-15-2013, 2:46 PM
I use a single press, turret presses can go much faster. some of those $800 kits can load about 200-300 an hour

Now that's more like it. I don't have enough time to reload what I shoot at 100/hr. 200-300/hr would mean about half a day can get me a month's worth of shooting. That would work.

kkp
08-15-2013, 3:02 PM
Now that's more like it. I don't have enough time to reload what I shoot at 100/hr. 200-300/hr would mean about half a day can get me a month's worth of shooting. That would work.

Two hours in front of the TV once a week, with the simple reloading press (100/hr), and you're still cranking out 200 per week or 800 per month. You're shooting so much that 800 rounds per month is not enough? I'm glad I don't have your ammo bill!!!

This thread is seriously drifting off topic, however...

Fritz265
08-15-2013, 3:09 PM
Two hours in front of the TV once a week, with the simple reloading press (100/hr), and you're still cranking out 200 per week or 800 per month. You're shooting so much that 800 rounds per month is not enough? I'm glad I don't have your ammo bill!!!

This thread is seriously drifting off topic, however...

Way off topic but still ammo related....

I'm at least 1000 rnds/month but that includes my wife and son shooting too. Yes, a fat ammo bill but it's our hobby.

Fireguy
08-15-2013, 3:17 PM
Being retired and disable it is difficult to find disposable income to shoot anymore. If every one here that posted a question or comment on this topic wrote to everyone who authored these bills you could flood there office with mail and drowned them .

Fill there offices with paper work. Then do the same with all the other anti's in Sacamento. The State attrny general Harris will be running for Governor next election. She is going to have to face the fall out, but wont care she is a shoe in.

Write the newspapers in op/ed, asks these question to them and how it will effect the community and their advertising dollars. Write to small counties who rely on shooting and hunting dollars to fill their hotels in the fall.

We must fight these bills the best way we can, if you're me and sending $$$ is a hard ship write letters and phone those in Sacto. If you are lucky enough to get out in the field tell the locals that if these laws pass you might not be hunting anymore and spending money in there county.

Sorry for ranting, I want my grand childern to try shooting sports when they are old enough, I may be gone by then.

Don't let them win, use the system to defeat them.

Fritz265
08-15-2013, 3:20 PM
Being retired and disable it is difficult to find disposable income to shoot anymore. If every one here that posted a question or comment on this topic wrote to everyone who authored these bills you could flood there office with mail and drowned them .

Fill there offices with paper work. Then do the same with all the other anti's in Sacamento. The State attrny general Harris will be running for Govenor

That ship has sailed Fireguy. They have a supermajority in Sacramento and a supermajority voting block that keeps them there. Our squeals of anger via letters and phone calls will do nothing to keep them from their assigned agenda.

Sorry for being pessimistic, but we're over the tipping point in the People's Republik.

talisman7
08-15-2013, 3:35 PM
Then the power is within the people of CA. Educate and help non shooters, anti gunners and unaware group of people bout guns. Bring the subject to more accepting rather you must and you have. I talked to my friends about the issue. I listened to their stands. We have conversation about changes. I talked to my family and relatives bout it. You ll be amazed how many are not aware and don't have clue.

Fritz265
08-15-2013, 3:45 PM
Then the power is within the people of CA. Educate and help non shooters, anti gunners and unaware group of people bout guns. Bring the subject to more accepting rather you must and you have. I talked to my friends about the issue. I listened to their stands. We have conversation about changes. I talked to my family and relatives bout it. You ll be amazed how many are not aware and don't have clue.

I think the reasonable people will listen but the rest are a lost cause. Ever tried arguing with a true liberal?

Like trying to hold a conversation with squealing zombies. Just makes you tired.

TempleKnight
08-15-2013, 4:20 PM
100 in an hour? I shoot faster than that. I'm gonna need a bigger setup....

A Dillon XL650 can get you up to 1000 per hour for pistol ammo. .556 can take a while to process the brass. Crimped primers are no fun.

https://www.dillonprecision.com/#/customize-reloader.html

Munny$hot
08-15-2013, 4:31 PM
That ship has sailed Fireguy. They have a supermajority in Sacramento and a supermajority voting block that keeps them there. Our squeals of anger via letters and phone calls will do nothing to keep them from their assigned agenda.

Sorry for being pessimistic, but we're over the tipping point in the People's Republik.

Sooooo we should just give up and except and turn in all our firearms in for movie tickets??? Or grow a pair and fight like fireguy said to? Believe it or not if the 2A supports had all the side liners join the fight we would defeat laws/bills like this...

Munny$hot
08-15-2013, 4:32 PM
I think the reasonable people will listen but the rest are a lost cause. Ever tried arguing with a true liberal?

Like trying to hold a conversation with squealing zombies. Just makes you tired.

I can definitely agree with you on this issue lol...

Fritz265
08-15-2013, 4:37 PM
Sooooo we should just give up and except and turn in all our firearms in for movie tickets??? Or grow a pair and fight like fireguy said to? Believe it or not if the 2A supports had all the side liners join the fight we would defeat laws/bills like this...

I never said to give up. I said that trying to fight the liberally insane supermajority head-on is a waste of resources. There's absolutely no downside for them to continue the barrage. The ONLY way we have a chance is to get more Repubicans in the legislature. Whatever it takes and however long it takes. Focus your efforts there rather than taking on gun laws one at a time. We're going to suffer in a major way for a while. Dig in and start supporting pro-2A candidates in every district in CA, even if not your own. Eventually, we'll break the supermajority and some of the laws on the books can be peeled back. Remember, our own fruitcake Governor and AG have already set legal precedent that failure to defend a law on the books that is being challenged will be remanded back and nullified by higher courts. That tactic works both ways.

Feel free to fight but keep stocking up while you do.

tal3nt
08-15-2013, 4:41 PM
All this makes me sad. & leaving the state is out of the question for me.. sigh

Lead Waster
08-15-2013, 4:42 PM
This is going to kill ammo sales.

It will probably bring the entire firearms industry with it in CA. Why would they want to stay? :facepalm:

This is why they are doing it.

Can't buy guns if there is no-one selling.

I better buy a flintlock rifle.

njineermike
08-15-2013, 4:42 PM
I don't buy my ammo in state now as it is.

Fritz265
08-15-2013, 4:47 PM
I don't buy my ammo in state now as it is.

I can't remember the last time I bought ammo from a store in CA. I have it all shipped in. I'll be out of CA by the time this takes effect in 2015 but if not, I'd have to find another way.

woods
08-15-2013, 4:51 PM
Does the black market ever have holiday sales?

I don't think I can respect California law or follow it anymore they make law without reason that violates my rights.

I'll go out of state and reload but if I go out of state for ammo I may never return to California.

We should put about 11,000 lbs of quick dry cement in front of the capitol doors and seal it off so they can't abuse it anymore.

njineermike
08-15-2013, 4:53 PM
Does the black market ever have holiday sales?

I don't think I can respect California law or follow it anymore they make law without reason that violates my rights.

I'll go out of state and reload but if I go out of state for ammo I may never return to California.

We should put about 11,000 lbs of quick dry cement in front of the capitol doors and seal it off so they can't abuse it anymore.

I'll help buy the cement, but only if you put the feet of a certain portion of the legislature in the cement and drop it off a bridge.

Fritz265
08-15-2013, 4:59 PM
Does the black market ever have holiday sales?



Cinco de Mayo

Guapoh
08-15-2013, 5:04 PM
Have a vacation home in Tahoe which is only 90 minutes away from where I normally live. We are there frequently on weekends and for overnighters. If this ammo **** passes I forsee more Cabelas and Scheels visits and I already hit them fairly regularly.

In the grand scheme of things for me, the internet ammo ban bull**** will not alter my behavior too much.

JohnnyPark805
08-15-2013, 5:17 PM
Way off topic but still ammo related....

I'm at least 1000 rnds/month but that includes my wife and son shooting too. Yes, a fat ammo bill but it's our hobby.

I don't think its off topic, if this bill does get approved, some people will start reloading, I cant even begin to imagine how expensive it will be to buy factory ammo in California

pitbull30
08-15-2013, 5:36 PM
Instead of bailing out or saying "I reload so I'm ok" please donate your next ammo purchase $ to calguns. We all know this is going to court and it won't be cheap. Every gun owner in here can spare some cash to preserve all of our rights.

Exactly. I saw some of the "I gave up/give up posts here". If you are moving cool. I understand. I wouldn't mind moving myself for a ton of reasons, but those of us who are rooted here or are stuck here for awhile you should sound off.

If you kick back and say nothing then everything will pass. Feinstein says : "Look no opposition!". The rest simply say ok! Pass it"

What we need is better public awareness. No one knows about the laws except for the firearms enthusiast crowd. And hell some Calgunners are barely starting to notice and ask questions when its been going on since after Sandy Hook. I think if we could get more "average joes" on board we would have a good chance. I have a bunch of friends and family who don't read Calguns and when I tell them things they say "Really? Didn't hear about that." Yeah because it's not on the news. They want to pass it while no one is watching or opposing.

So how about we get some public awareness going. Click that link in my signature.

barrage
08-15-2013, 5:58 PM
The majority of Colonists didn't even want to or didn't care about Independence. Our founding fathers were the spokesmen for about 3% of the population at the time and it was those 3%'ers that made the United States happen by way of force.

Speaking out and educating Americans isn't going to do damn thing. The fact is that most either don't care about liberty or are actually against it with only (again) a small minority of the population in support of the natural rights enumerated in the Constitution.

At this point, doing nothing is better than implying consent to the nation's ridiculous laws by participation in the great civic theater when the latter is going to be systematically ignored or ridiculed by the people who are supposed to represent us.

And please don't ask me what my solution is. I'm just as tired of being ridiculed by my supposed Representatives as I am the 97%.

bigbob76
08-15-2013, 6:22 PM
You got it bro.. No matter who we vote for or contribute our cash to, the powers that be will put their laws onto us in Calif., then spread to the rest of the country like a fungus. :(

I beg to differ. It appears all of the new gun grabbing legislation is being done only by Democrats. I'm embarrassed to know there are many calgunners that will continue to vote for them for one reason or another.

noseyparker2u
08-15-2013, 6:57 PM
All our representatives in SoCa are gun-hating (dare I say freedom hating) Democrats. As the state will never carry a Republican for President, so goes the state for it's domestic agenda. With the overwhelming urban populations of L.A., and San Francisco this state is doomed to swing Democratic in every election. The avalanche of new gun legislation will continue until everyone is completely disarmed. In this regard the Democrats are like the Taliban and their thousand year war, they will stay the course until they win.
Personalty, I'm leaving California. That said, much of the rest of the country faces the same fate. Ignorance knows no state boundaries.

1CavScout
08-15-2013, 7:03 PM
I beg to differ. It appears all of the new gun grabbing legislation is being done only by Democrats. I'm embarrassed to know there are many calgunners that will continue to vote for them for one reason or another.

Only in California. I was in AZ during the last presidential election and I saw ZERO Obama signs and stickers. Too many Dems here that think you can vote D and they won't try and take your guns away.

barrage
08-15-2013, 7:11 PM
All our representatives in SoCa are gun-hating (dare I say freedom hating) Democrats. As the state will never carry a Republican for President, so goes the state for it's domestic agenda. With the overwhelming urban populations of L.A., and San Francisco this state is doomed to swing Democratic in every election. The avalanche of new gun legislation will continue until everyone is completely disarmed. In this regard the Democrats are like the Taliban and their thousand year war, they will stay the course until they win.
Personalty, I'm leaving California. That said, much of the rest of the country faces the same fate. Ignorance knows no state boundaries.

Good point and reminds me that there IS still some hope for a peaceful resolution to the state of this nation.

If anyone wants to actually do some good in restoring the United States, I think getting behind the effort to split California into 2 or 3 separate states is imperative to preserving our representative democracy.

This state is entirely too big and influential, essentially shoehorning its will on every American in the country regardless of their representation. Because of California, it literally serves no purpose to vote for president as San Francisco, Los Angeles, and Sacramento collectively dictate that office in its entirety, and I believe that's why participation is a lost cause.

California has lent itself to the leviathan of large centralized governments. The lives of its constituents be damned, those who run this state WILL dictate how we live our lives so long as California remains a single entity.

G21Shooter
08-15-2013, 7:29 PM
Better just get some high end pellet guns, that is all we will be able to own when the sodomites are done making their laws...

njineermike
08-15-2013, 7:30 PM
Better just get some high end pellet guns, that is all we will be able to own when the sodomites are done making their laws...

Yeah. Sure. Like we'll be able to own some assault style high powered pellet gun.

kkp
08-15-2013, 7:59 PM
Better just get some high end pellet guns, that is all we will be able to own when the sodomites are done making their laws...

They've already legislated rules on BB guns, and more are sure to come.

I'm only marginally confident I'll be allowed to keep my tactical semi-automatic staple gun.

Fritz265
08-15-2013, 8:07 PM
Get a single-shot star gun like mine. Much more accurate anyway...

Fritz265
08-15-2013, 8:09 PM
Get a single-shot staple gun like mine. Much more accurate anyway...

noseyparker2u
08-15-2013, 8:16 PM
Unfortunately, I believe the only way to salvage our way of life as the founding fathers intended is to split this union into two separate countries. Let the liberals turn their great urbane centers into the chaotic mess that Chicago has become and the rest of us could live our lives as free men.

Fritz265
08-15-2013, 8:39 PM
Unfortunately, I believe the only way to salvage our way of life as the founding fathers intended is to split this union into two separate countries. Let the liberals turn their great urbane centers into the chaotic mess that Chicago has become and the rest of us could live our lives as free men.

You're way too generous. Why give up half when we should take it all back?

bigbob76
08-15-2013, 9:53 PM
You're way too generous. Why give up half when we should take it all back?

I like the way you think. So many losers want to run away.

Fritz265
08-15-2013, 9:57 PM
Why run away? We're the side with all of the firepower.

tANNERRRR
08-15-2013, 10:00 PM
This is pathetic, but oh well. I'm out in Arizona visiting my girlfriends mom every so often, so I will just buy most of my ammo there. Or have it shipped there. Screw you California.

Damn True
08-15-2013, 10:00 PM
Might have to open a little retail establishment two doors down from Cal-Neva.

GoingPro
08-15-2013, 11:22 PM
Ill make runs for everyone... ill charge .10 each round and all profit made will go to cgf. Instead of paying taxes so people on ebt in ca can eat for free.

GoingPro
08-15-2013, 11:22 PM
Imagine how much money we can fund for our cause?

glock7
08-16-2013, 7:09 AM
Rather than do that, why not simply move to AZ yourself?

folks just can't pack up and move. as much as i want to move now, i have 5 years till retirement. it would be dumb for me to move and give that up. i know many shooters in the same boat. as nice as it would be to go now, can't do it.

glock7
08-16-2013, 7:19 AM
Thats a good idea, i didnt think of this.... ****. I am sure smuggling in ammo will be treated as a crime like they do with fireworks.... we will soon see signs coming into california that smuggling in ammo is a felony lolz

well, maybe it'll work in reverse, maybe the mexican govt has a plan to smuggle illegal rifles and ammo to ca and track their activities, maybe they can call that op "rapido y furiosa". nah, that could never happen.:oji:

glock7
08-16-2013, 7:26 AM
It will motivate me to finally buy a reloading setup in 2014

better do it now if you can. reloading supplies aren't plentiful, and they do go oos very quickly. i have a feeling prices for components will be going up towards the end of the year and into 2014.

glock7
08-16-2013, 7:31 AM
I was just reading the other day how Dallas and Houston are starting to see an extreme Democrat/left influence on legislation. Texans will get bit the first time their arrogance has let their guard down, just as what happened in CA in the late 1990s; and then the flood-gates broke with Gray Davis and it hasn't been the same since. Texas is so likely to be blind-sided it won't know what hit them.

Why? Because they have the SAME problem California has; big cities with large centers of a neosocialist thinking populace dictating what they know as best for the 95% of the rest of the state that is rural, less dense in votership, and therefore at the whim of being outnumbered vocally and physically by left nanny-state well-wishers that exists in the congested cities.

I really believe Texas is the next state to suffer under the recent devices that have sprouted in CA, Colorado, Connecticut, and the like; states that used to be so 2nd Amendment friendly that guns were just a way of life.

you are correct, unfortunately. my brother lives in NV and you are starting to see the same thing there. maybe, this is what needs to happen, the have's and have-a-little bit won't revolt, it's the have-not's or used-to-get-entitlements-but-the govt-ain't -givin-me-nuthin crowd that will actually to the revolting....:oji:

glock7
08-16-2013, 7:37 AM
This. Plus, I see myself heading to Vegas a little more frequently. I'll just have to add some non-gambling dollars to the budget, and start buying ammo in bulk.

I need to make a friend in NV who will let me ship stuff to them!

my brother lives in vegas and they are already limiting purchases at places like bass pro, walmart. they hate that californians are coming and buying their ammo. my boss just came from vegas and they limited him to 3 boxes of .223, so that you're prepared, when you go with your 1/2 ton cargo van, just to come back with 3 boxes.

glock7
08-16-2013, 7:43 AM
I beg to differ. It appears all of the new gun grabbing legislation is being done only by Democrats. I'm embarrassed to know there are many calgunners that will continue to vote for them for one reason or another.

yeah i've noticed that....for the life of me i can't figure that one out. but yet they say they're pro 2a, if you are a left leaning liberal and vote that way, then you aren't pro 2a....just sayin....

Fritz265
08-16-2013, 8:27 AM
yeah i've noticed that....for the life of me i can't figure that one out. but yet they say they're pro 2a, if you are a left leaning liberal and vote that way, then you aren't pro 2a....just sayin....

Let's all just clear that lie up right now. It's the national platform of the DNC to BAN private firearm ownership on a national level. No matter what your local folks say, using the guise of closing loopholes or "for the kids", they want YOUR guns.

If you vote, or support a "D" in any way, you're voting to have your guns taken from you.

In CA, the supermajority is going to get their way. We can try to spend money on lawyers, but they're going to pass outrageous anti 2A laws faster than we can fight them so it's going to get bad for us before it gets better. Start supporting every "R" that runs in CA in every single district. It's going to take a long time but if we can simply break the supermajority, we have a shot at getting some relief.

Fritz265
08-16-2013, 8:32 AM
BTW: Off the ammo legislation for a moment and regarding the long-gun registration law: Anybody read the draft bill before it was passed noting that the entire basis of long-gun registration was predicated on law enforcement safety? The author based it on the fact that police needed to know exactly what firearms may be in a home before they attempt to enter.

Anybody with a normal brain see anything wrong with that?

1CavScout
08-16-2013, 8:33 AM
^^^ Truth...

cantcme
08-16-2013, 8:39 AM
Why would you ever buy ammo local at high prices?
Ammoman and other mailorder companies are the way to go

Fritz265
08-16-2013, 8:41 AM
Why would you ever buy ammo local at high prices?
Ammoman and other mailorder companies are the way to go

Agreed. I can't remember the last time I bought ammo in a store. SB 53 will make buying in bulk via mail extremely difficult, if not impossible.

6mmintl
08-16-2013, 8:57 AM
it will get all the ricky recons and mall ninja's off the 25/50 yard sniper lines because they will have to buy real long barreled rifles.

1CavScout
08-16-2013, 9:07 AM
Agreed. I can't remember the last time I bought ammo in a store. SB 53 will make buying in bulk via mail extremely difficult, if not impossible.

Get a mailbox out of state. I got a box at the UPS store in AZ because I was afraid something would get stolen from my doorstep out there. They will hold packages and E-mail you when one comes in.

Fritz265
08-16-2013, 9:10 AM
Get a mailbox out of state. I got a box at the UPS store in AZ because I was afraid something would get stolen from my doorstep out there. They will hold packages and E-mail you when one comes in.

There's one way, but the law does allow having ammo shipped in but it would have to be sent to a licensed vendor for you to pick up.

barrage
08-16-2013, 9:19 AM
Let's all just clear that lie up right now. It's the national platform of the DNC to BAN private firearm ownership on a national level. No matter what your local folks say, using the guise of closing loopholes or "for the kids", they want YOUR guns.

If you vote, or support a "D" in any way, you're voting to have your guns taken from you.

In CA, the supermajority is going to get their way. We can try to spend money on lawyers, but they're going to pass outrageous anti 2A laws faster than we can fight them so it's going to get bad for us before it gets better. Start supporting every "R" that runs in CA in every single district. It's going to take a long time but if we can simply break the supermajority, we have a shot at getting some relief.

I agree with you regarding the Democrats, but how is supporting Republicans doing anything differently? They want to establish an American police state just as bad as the Democrats do and as soon as they start being as public about it as the Left has been lately, they're certain to go after our guns as well.

Fritz265
08-16-2013, 9:33 AM
I agree with you regarding the Democrats, but how is supporting Republicans doing anything differently? They want to establish an American police state just as bad as the Democrats do and as soon as they start being as public about it as the Left has been lately, they're certain to go after our guns as well.

I don't see any evidence of that from true conservatives. Don't confuse the fake "R"s like Schwartzenegger with true Republicans.

1CavScout
08-16-2013, 9:53 AM
I agree with you regarding the Democrats, but how is supporting Republicans doing anything differently? They want to establish an American police state just as bad as the Democrats do and as soon as they start being as public about it as the Left has been lately, they're certain to go after our guns as well.

Look at states under Republican control, and look at their gun laws. If you value your gun rights you don't vote D. I have problems with a lot of politicians, including RINO's, but voting D is not an option for anybody that does not want their gun rights taken away.

Damn True
08-16-2013, 10:52 AM
Look at states under Republican control, and look at their gun laws. If you value your gun rights you don't vote D. I have problems with a lot of politicians, including RINO's, but voting D is not an option for anybody that does not want their gun rights taken away.


This.

Bottom line, if you voted for any of these Democrats you share equal culpability in the result of their attacks on 2A.

cfusionpm
08-16-2013, 10:56 AM
I don't see any evidence of that from true conservatives. Don't confuse the fake "R"s like Schwartzenegger with true Republicans.

As opposed to "fake" ones like Reagan? What did he do for gun rights again? It's not as simple as just voting red and hoping for the best.

njineermike
08-16-2013, 10:57 AM
This.

Bottom line, if you voted for any of these Democrats you share equal culpability in the result of their attacks on 2A.

We've been saying that for a while now, and the only answer they give is "Ronald Reagan signed the first California gun ban", then blither something or other about controlling vaginas, floowed by some offhand reference to Heller/MacDonald rulings. My question to them: If Heller/MacDonald are settled law to the point that you can feel free to vote someone into office that will willingly violate that law, with full confidence it will be overturned by a court, why do you not feel the same aboiut Roe V. Wade? That was supposedly settled law as well, but all I hear from the die-hard democrats is "The republicans will outlaw abortions of we vote for them".

njineermike
08-16-2013, 10:57 AM
As opposed to "fake" ones like Reagan? What did he do for gun rights again? It's not as simple as just voting red and hoping for the best.

And cue the excuse makers.

cfusionpm
08-16-2013, 11:19 AM
And cue the excuse makers.

It's just a lot more complicated than that. There are vastly more gun-friendly R's than D's, but it doesn't mean gun friendly D's don't exist and no R would ever take away your gun rights. If the R's want to win back places like CA and try and reverse the moronic gun laws, they need to win over voters. Which means embracing (or at least pretending to) things like gay rights, women's rights, caring for the poor, and other social topics that single-handedly carry the D vote in places like this.

In the same sense that you or I would never vote for Feinstein because of her stone-wall stance on guns, there are plenty of D's that would never vote R because of their stone-wall stance on X, Y, or Z social issue. They're not going to win a voter by telling them how stupid and wrong they are. Especially if their misinformed, close-minded view of the subject is the end-all be-all answer and they are unwilling to even consider opposing viewpoints. Division makes us weaker, not stronger.

njineermike
08-16-2013, 11:25 AM
It's just a lot more complicated than that. There are vastly more gun-friendly R's than D's, but it doesn't mean gun friendly D's don't exist and no R would ever take away your gun rights. If the R's want to win back places like CA and try and reverse the moronic gun laws, they need to win over voters. Which means embracing (or at least pretending to) things like gay rights, women's rights, caring for the poor, and other social topics that single-handedly carry the D vote in places like this.

In the same sense that you or I would never vote for Feinstein because of her stone-wall stance on guns, there are plenty of D's that would never vote R because of their stone-wall stance on X, Y, or Z social issue. They're not going to win a voter by telling them how stupid and wrong they are. Especially if their misinformed, close-minded view of the subject is the end-all be-all answer and they are unwilling to even consider opposing viewpoints. Division makes us weaker, not stronger.

Blah blah blah blah.....

You vote D in california, you are the problem. No if's, no and's, no but's, no excuses. You own guns and vote D, you are either too mentally deficient to be allowed to own guns or a simple traitor.

cfusionpm
08-16-2013, 12:09 PM
Blah blah blah blah.....

You vote D in california, you are the problem. No if's, no and's, no but's, no excuses. You own guns and vote D, you are either too mentally deficient to be allowed to own guns or a simple traitor.

Did I? I voted some Ds some Rs. Mostly because Rs have done just as good a job running CA into the ground as Ds. Way to completely miss the point.

Fritz265
08-16-2013, 12:16 PM
What "D"s did you vote for so I can look up their voting record on gun bills. And btw, "D"s have been running this state for 30 years. If you helped elect them, then you're part of the problem.

chead
08-16-2013, 12:27 PM
We've been saying that for a while now, and the only answer they give is "Ronald Reagan signed the first California gun ban", then blither something or other about controlling vaginas, floowed by some offhand reference to Heller/MacDonald rulings. My question to them: If Heller/MacDonald are settled law to the point that you can feel free to vote someone into office that will willingly violate that law, with full confidence it will be overturned by a court, why do you not feel the same aboiut Roe V. Wade? That was supposedly settled law as well, but all I hear from the die-hard democrats is "The republicans will outlaw abortions of we vote for them".

Republicans will try to ban abortion either outright or by making it so difficult to find a provider that it becomes a de facto ban. That is also true of Democrats and guns. Both parties (or at least their current leadership and platforms) are absolute garbage and should never get a vote from anyone with even the most basic political awareness.

But this isn't the politics forum ;)

Fritz265
08-16-2013, 12:31 PM
Republicans will try to ban abortion either outright or by making it so difficult to find a provider that it becomes a de facto ban. That is also true of Democrats and guns. Both parties (or at least their current leadership and platforms) are absolute garbage and should never get a vote from anyone with even the most basic political awareness.

But this isn't the politics forum ;)

I'm Republican and I personally don't care about abortion nor gay marriage. I think every liberal should exercise their right to abort their own offspring and EVERYBODY deserves the right to lose half of their stuff in a divorce.

But you're right, this isn't the politics forum. Now back to ammo bans lead by a party that we cannot mention because we want to remain politics-free here....

njineermike
08-16-2013, 12:33 PM
Did I? I voted some Ds some Rs. Mostly because Rs have done just as good a job running CA into the ground as Ds. Way to completely miss the point.

See those letters on top of the page? The ones that denote the thread topic when combined into words? That's the point. A state bill to license the purchase of ammunition and report purchases. Introduced by Democrats, supported and co-signed by Democrats, being rubber-stamped into law by Democrats while Republicans vote NO. That's what the grownups in the room are talking about. But, please, by all means, feel free to continue to ether not having a clue or purposely obfuscating the facts, whichever you're doing poorly at the moment.

njineermike
08-16-2013, 12:36 PM
I'm Republican and I personally don't care about abortion nor gay marriage. I think every liberal should exercise their right to abort their own offspring and EVERYBODY deserves the right to lose half of their stuff in a divorce.

But you're right, this isn't the politics forum. Now back to ammo bans lead by a party that we cannot mention because we want to remain politics-free here....

I thik every liberal should have been aborted decades ago. I fully support a retro-active abortion on them right now.

Fritz265
08-16-2013, 12:37 PM
I thik every liberal should have been aborted decades ago. I fully support a retro-active abortion on them right now.

The only problem with abortion is that liberals don't use if ENOUGH. I'll even help pay for it.

njineermike
08-16-2013, 12:39 PM
The only problem with abortion is that liberals don't use if ENOUGH. I'll even help pay for it.

Post the paypal link and I'm willing to bet a LOT of people will donate.

barrage
08-16-2013, 1:45 PM
There's a lot of truth to be said for Democrats and those supporting them being a large part of the problem. As far as I'm concerned, the words "Democrat", "Liberal", and "Progressive" are all synonymous with "Communism" at this point, but I wouldn't trust my country or my freedom with anyone who aligns themselves with the Republican party either. The way I see it, they both have the same agenda and represent two sides of the same political party forcing me to support neither.

It does make me lose a little more hope to see how easily people get played by the faux two party system though, all the while being distracted from the traitors and walking cancers in our government because they're too god damn busy worrying about which stupid political party they think they belong to and hating anyone else as if it's some kind of football rivalry.

A lot of you need to come to the realization that if you participate in the system as it stands at this point whether you define yourself as a "D" or an "R", then you're contributing to the problem equally.

Fritz265
08-16-2013, 2:25 PM
Speaking of ammo, just ordered 3000 rounds of .223 from my guy in WV. Free shipping and no cc fees. I'll enjoy getting the deliveries at home while I can.

cfusionpm
08-16-2013, 3:44 PM
Republicans will try to ban abortion either outright or by making it so difficult to find a provider that it becomes a de facto ban. That is also true of Democrats and guns. Both parties (or at least their current leadership and platforms) are absolute garbage and should never get a vote from anyone with even the most basic political awareness.

But this isn't the politics forum ;)

Would love to take it there, but I'm banned because apparently I disagree with the mods and can't play nice. :oji:

GoingPro
08-16-2013, 3:53 PM
Bow down to liberals or pay the price!!!!!