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View Full Version : Would you get the DOJ involved if a shop refused a PPT or overcharged?


TonyNorCal
12-27-2007, 4:52 PM
Would you get the DOJ involved if a shop refused to do a PPT or overcharged you?

In regard to the PPT this would not invole a one or two time 'we're really busy now, can you come another time?'. Rather the scenario would be the FFL simply flat out refuses to do it. Period.

In regard to the overcharging let's say it's an overcharge of greater than $20 and the shop refuses to make it right after having the law presented to them.

Or, do you feel that gun dealers are a rare commodity who need to be protected even when not being accomodating to PPTs.

E Pluribus Unum
12-27-2007, 4:53 PM
As if this is not currently covered in 14 other posts....

Rob P.
12-27-2007, 6:39 PM
I refuse to be a victim. A victim of either price gouging or failure to follow the law. FFL's KNOW what they're supposed to do and what the laws are in regards to what they're supposed to do. ANY FFL who does not fully comply and obey the restrictions and responsibilities placed upon them when they receive their license does not deserve to retain that license.

If they'll screw me over, they'll do it to you as well. If that's the case then they are no friend of the firearms industry or the consumer.

AJAX22
12-27-2007, 6:47 PM
I voted no,

I spend a LOT on guns every year, if they don't want my money... then they can go butter a midget for all I care, I'll spend it somewhere else (and they can keep those consignment guns I was looking at in the case)

The last thing we need to do is make it seem like we actually have a USE for the BOF. We may not like what the shop does, but that is no reason to feed grist to the mill. Every arrest they make, or diciplinary action they enact makes gun owners and gunshops a little more affraid of the big bad wolf.

If they have nothing to do, they will loose their ability to command funding j(and inspire fear) at a rapid rate. (just my opinion)

CavTrooper
12-27-2007, 6:48 PM
Yes, but only after Ive tried to reason with them. If they are aware of the law, know that I am aware of the law and still decide to break it, too bad for them.

Matt C
12-27-2007, 6:50 PM
No, unless they are totally rude.

USN CHIEF
12-27-2007, 6:53 PM
I voted yes on both. An FFL is just like any other bussiness out there and should not be taking advantage of Ignorant people like me when it comes to buying firearms.

Sgt Raven
12-27-2007, 8:16 PM
Would you get the DOJ involved if a shop refused to do a PPT or overcharged you?

In regard to the PPT this would not invole a one or two time 'we're really busy now, can you come another time?'. Rather the scenario would be the FFL simply flat out refuses to do it. Period.

In regard to the overcharging let's say it's an overcharge of greater than $20 and the shop refuses to make it right after having the law presented to them.

Or, do you feel that gun dealers are a rare commodity who need to be protected even when not being accomodating to PPTs.

No I don't feel the FFLs need to be protected, but I voted no. I don't call the police when the neighbors have a loud party because I don't want them called when I do something minor but wrong. It’s the whole ‘Karma’ thing. I feel their bad deeds will catch up to them without me calling the .Gov. :rolleyes:

gmcal
12-27-2007, 8:21 PM
I voted no because I'd rather go somewhere else than to draw attention to myself. If they tried to charge more when I went to pick up the gun is the only way I'd call the DoJ, and only if it was a significant amount.

Moonclip
12-27-2007, 8:53 PM
I vote with my wallet. I don't call to tattle but I do admit to calling ATF on Walmart long ago on a 4473 issue but they sided with Walmart (long story)

I am sorely tempted to call sometimes but I haven't yet.

drdanno84
12-27-2007, 8:57 PM
I voted No, we obviously live in a poice state that has unreasonable and ridiculous gun laws, and we don't need to be
"tattle tales" and make life miserable for other people, just find another '
FFL and give them your business.

xenophobe
12-27-2007, 11:23 PM
No.

I think anyone that would is a spineless little wuss that needs to grow up and find a sport that they are better suited towards.

You may not get along with everyone at school, but you gonna go running to the principal every time someone makes you cry?

F'n whining little female canines...

retired
12-28-2007, 12:15 AM
No, unless they are totally rude.

Blackwater, don't you think by them doing that they are being rude since they are refusing to do what they are supposed to do and are trying to overcharge you. Just curious.

xenophobe, don't hold back, tell us how you really feel.;). I would have thought you would have used felines rather than canines.:lol:

rod
12-28-2007, 5:14 AM
I voted no. Until the BoF changes their attitude, I consider them to be part of the problem. We don't have many FFLs left in this state and we don't need to encourage any extra trouble for the few we have remaining. If a certain FFL needs a little education, give it to them. If they still don't see the light, shop elsewhere. We can wash our own dirty laundry.

tenpercentfirearms
12-28-2007, 6:20 AM
Vote with your wallet.

Or as my continuation high school students say, "Snitches get stiches!" :rolleyes:

I personally wouldn't call the BOF because I don't think the BOF gives much of a damn. However, any dealer who does, I won't feel sorry for them if they do get caught. The laws are pretty clear on overcharging.

Refusing a PPT? Unless that is the only guy within 100 miles, I would just go somewhere else. The fee is the same. Why deal with people who don't want your business?

Wulf
12-28-2007, 6:37 AM
I voted No. A Ca. FFL's life is hard enough and I'm not going to give DOJ a chance to feed the monkey on their back or the MSM to write another prejudicial anti story. I just wont go back to them again...for anything.

uscbigdawg
12-28-2007, 6:45 PM
Gotta vote no on both. If you don't like what you get, go somewhere else. Period. You'd do the same to a restaurant, car dealer or grocery store. No need to get butt hurt just 'cause FFL's and moreso gun store owners are getting more and more frustrated over increasing PPT's and online gun orders than guns being sold out of their store.

Not justifying it, but just remember, all those cats that hang out in stores for hours...aren't buying anything.

Rich

Matt C
12-28-2007, 6:53 PM
Blackwater, don't you think by them doing that they are being rude since they are refusing to do what they are supposed to do and are trying to overcharge you. Just curious.

Nope. In fact I can hardly think of a situation where I would get pissed enough to do something low and call in the Department of Jackasses. Who really has the right to tell them what they are "supposed" to do at their own place of business? IMO no one does.

five.five-six
12-28-2007, 8:57 PM
i vote with my wallet and my posts... one more shop gets closed and that is one less shop, less compitition, less diversity. i am a libritarian, I don't want the government involved in anything more that the basics that they shuld be doing.. selling guns in PRK is a PITA... it is his shop and he can do what he wants with it... in this state i would expect any g shop owner to be a bit paranoid and want to CYA

Shane916
12-28-2007, 10:46 PM
FFL's are our friends, not enemies. No need to snitch on them :) The more FFL's the better.

Rob454
12-28-2007, 11:57 PM
I vould say yes turn them in. There are other FFls that are honest and dont gouge. As for the gouger FFL screw him. You KNOW the law. Its still a business just like any other business. Any other business woud be reported and legal action taken so why should a gun shop be any different simply because its a gun shop? Why should he get away with screwing people. There will always be someone who sells guns. Also the honest/fair FFL will get the business anyway. yeah sure you can vote with your wallet and I do that also but i would still want to report them. He wouldnt get reported if he was honest.

As for the members who said if youre a tattle tale youre a pu**y ( or words to that effect) personally I think jsut going somewhere else WITHOUT standing up for whats right makes you more of a pu**y than me. at least I wont run to the next guy and the next guy everytime a tough decision should be made.
Rob

Army
12-29-2007, 2:57 AM
Yes on both. Sure, you can "vote with your dollars", and the store will close its doors. The FFL is gone, with a lot of rumors about how or why.

Or, you can report a crime, and know that nobody else will get robbed.

Word goes around fast among gun stores, others would get the picture that FFL owners must follow the law, and not steal from their customers.

If they will jack you on PPT's, what else are they jacking you for?

Ford8N
12-29-2007, 3:54 AM
I said no. I would just go somewhere else. But I don't use "brick and mortar" FFL's anyway, to much ignorance and FUD at times. I only use "kitchen table" FFL's for my stuff, they know the current law.:43:

uscbigdawg
12-29-2007, 5:28 AM
I'm with Ford. My guy operates out of his house. I try to support the stores as much as I can, but it's hard as most stores don't carry ANYTHING that I need. Mostly primers in a pinch is about all I can get from them. The shooting industry is not as small/uninformed as it used to be. Word gets around pretty quick on who's fair and who's not. Voting with your dollars speaks much louder. Frankly, I'm of the mind, if you don't like what a guy charges, you're welcome to go somewhere else. Someone gonna sue or cry 'cause Rolex doesn't sell watches at the same price as a Timex?

Rich

bwiese
12-29-2007, 6:18 AM
Of course I would not involve DOJ in a decision over structured markets.

Those laws were indeed put in place (likely by NRA background work) to assure a legal marketplace for guns.

But ratting out an arsehole dealer? Naah. Let market forces do the work, let other gunnies and Calgunners know, and ultimately he'll get straight when other biz drops off. There are only ~750ish FFL dealers in CA, so each dealer has quite a few Calgunners in his territory.

Also, there are quite a few REALLY GOOD DEALERS in most areas of CA so you have a choice - maybe you have to drive an extra 20 mins, but it's worth it.

The only time I'd sic the DOJ on a CA FFL is for true immoral criminal behavior (selling guns to violent criminals/felons etc.) And it would probably be better to deal with the BATF on those matters given overall competency levels.

Max-the-Silent
12-29-2007, 6:23 AM
No.

paradox
12-29-2007, 6:44 AM
No, and I also wouldn't rat out someone who had a full auto fetish.

I would keep my distance from both though. No need for me to become involved with those who are bound to have a **** storm befall them at some point...

Rob454
12-29-2007, 7:48 AM
Frankly, I'm of the mind, if you don't like what a guy charges, you're welcome to go somewhere else. Someone gonna sue or cry 'cause Rolex doesn't sell watches at the same price as a Timex?

Rich

Well your anology is wrong. Rolex company isnt under a law to sell the watches at a set price . But I bet you would stop buying a Rolex ( or lots of stuff) if they charged you 5000$ for a watch and 2000$ in TAXES. I dont care what a FFL charges for a gun. That wasnt th subject of the post. The subject was on SET state regulated fees not pricing for guns. Its MY choice to purchase that gun at his asking price. if I dont like it I walk out, but when a legal fee is doubled quadrupled etc simply because they want to hell yeah thats wrong. The FFL went in business KNOWING that they have to do XYZ as a condition of accepting that license. But it doesnt pay enough to do it. Sure it sucks I understand that BUT if you dont want to do it then surrender your FFL license and go into business doing somethign else. Im sorry you feel the need to gouge me because you have to follow the law but yes i would turn you in.That would be like a sporting goods store deciding to charge 100$ for a 36$ hunting license. I bet you would be pissed off then. So whats the difference between a shop overcharging you for a transfer fee or a license fee or some shop deciding to charge you 2-4 x the actual tax on a object or service you purchased?. Why not let everyone charge whatever they feel is enough "for their time" for any service. The problem is everyone who gets screwed by a business basically sits there and sais " Im just gonna go shop somewhere else screw them" Thats all fine and dandy but youre not really doing anything to the store and their profits. Loosing one customer is like putting your hand in a bucket of water then pulling it out. The amount of time for the water to take up the space where your hand has been is about the amount of time you will be missed. Will the DOJ or whatever governing body do anything with the info you send in? You guys always say no they dotn care but I bet they get so few complaints about FFLs they probably dont even know its happening. Dont know but if they get enough complaints I bet they have to investigate.
Your average gun store has most of its business from NEW clients. Sure the guy who is a repeat customer is great but unless all your customers are repeats youre staying in business due to the new clients. a crooked FFL is not only screwing a couple of people they are screwing a lot of people because if they fudge on one fee who knows what other fees they are bumping up
Rob

uscbigdawg
12-29-2007, 7:59 AM
If one guy wants to charge $35 and another guy wants to charge $135, that's fine with me. I'm going to find the guy that does it for $35. Too easy. Pick up a phone and call and ask. If you don't like the price for their service (i.e. like a plumber then if you don't like the retail analogy) then fine.

How 'bout if they itemized it. Okay the PPT is $35. That covers any DROS/DOJ paperwork. Now, 'cause he's not really making any money on this, he charges you a $20 service charge. I've got no problem with that, especially if it's a retail store. He's gotta keep the lights on, pay rent, pay employees and market-wise is fighting against online businesses that don't have a storefront for business. Throw in the 2-5% credit card fee and a retail business's profit keeps growing smaller and smaller.

Sometimes it's not always about a "deal". Sometimes, we just maybe need to spend a little more to keep a local guy in business. Man I miss the old days of my local gun store, but he got tired of everyone nickel & diming him and closed the doors on not just a store, but an institution.

Do whatever you're gonna do, but frankly, if you don't like it, there are always options. The market will weed out those that shouldn't be in it.

Rich

cartman
12-29-2007, 8:12 AM
I voted no because I don't think a business should be told how much to charge. Thats too much gov intrusion for me. The consumer market will balance things out. If someone is really gouging I won't buy anything from them not even ear plugs. And I don't think the BOF is interested anyway unless the ffl had legally configured olls there then they'd be all over it.

xenophobe
12-29-2007, 10:16 AM
xenophobe, don't hold back, tell us how you really feel.;). I would have thought you would have used felines rather than canines.:lol:

lol Good point. Felines it is. ;)


Or as my continuation high school students say, "Snitches get stiches!" :rolleyes:

Yeah, really. I've got no respect for a snitch.