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View Full Version : What's the point of FFL?


SP1200
12-27-2007, 12:11 PM
ok, I know...please don't flame me, but here's my question...

I live in Reno and have bought all my firearms through a private party. But now I want to order a few receivers online and they all say FFL required. So if I can buy a rifle form a private party legally in NV, why cant I just have the receivers shipped to my door? Why do I need an FFL?

No offence to FFL's here on the board, I'm sure you provide a service...I'm just wondering why I cant have some gun parts shipped to my door...

hoffmang
12-27-2007, 12:33 PM
Federal law requires transactions between residents of two different states to be conducted through an FFL.

-Gene

Librarian
12-27-2007, 12:45 PM
And receivers are not just 'gun parts'. Typically, they carry the serial number so they are 'the firearm'.

SP1200
12-27-2007, 8:34 PM
Right.

Ok, so if I were to order a receiver from a CA supplier, then can it be shipped to my door? Or will they try to hustle me through a FFL?

ar15barrels
12-27-2007, 8:44 PM
Federal law requires transactions between residents of two different states to be conducted through an FFL.

Very well said.
No wasted words.

ar15barrels
12-27-2007, 8:45 PM
so if I were to order a receiver from a CA supplier, then can it be shipped to my door?
Or will they try to hustle me through a FFL?

You said you live in Reno.
That means the receiver would cross state lines.
Federal laws apply across state lines.
If you were to live in CA, then CA STATE LAW requires ALL firearms transfers to be handled through an FFL.
There are exemptions like 50+ years old and inter-family transfers, but all new guns (or receivers) must transfer through a dealer.

Librarian
12-27-2007, 9:45 PM
Right.

Ok, so if I were to order a receiver from a CA supplier, then can it be shipped to my door? Or will they try to hustle me through a FFL?
AR15barrels has it right, but just to be specific:

Federal law - 18 USC 922 (a)(3)
(a) It shall be unlawful—
(3) for any person, other than a
licensed importer,
licensed manufacturer,
licensed dealer, or
licensed collector
to transport into or receive in the State where he resides
(or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business)
any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, - requires that only a licensed firearm dealer can receive a firearm from out of state.


If you order a thing the Feds think is a firearm from a California supplier, and you live in Reno, the thing you order MUST go to a Nevada FFL before it goes to you.


C&R is different; if you have a C&R FFL, you actually are licensed to receive C&R weapons (but within California, C&R handguns still go through FFLs).

SP1200
12-27-2007, 11:03 PM
wow thanks guys. that really sums it up. Yea I'm confused with the whole NV, and CA thing. I have a house in each state. So I'm assuming given that I'm a NV resident that I can have a NV supplier ship to my home in Reno and be FFL free...?

ar15barrels
12-27-2007, 11:03 PM
I'm confused with the whole NV, and CA thing. I have a house in each state. So I'm assuming given that I'm a NV resident that I can have a NV supplier ship to my home in Reno and be FFL free...

Where do you pay your taxes?
I think you are only "resident" in ONE state even though you may "live" in both.

I don't know about NV laws, but I suspect that an FFL will STILL be involved to run your NICS background check.
It's usually only private party sales that are exempt.

What's your aversion to FFL's?
Got something to hide? ;)

hoffmang
12-27-2007, 11:11 PM
As long as you do actually live in both places for a real period of time, and especially if you split your taxes between states, you can be a resident of whichever state is most useful to you.

See http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b12

-Gene

4D5auto
12-27-2007, 11:37 PM
wow thanks guys. that really sums it up. Yea I'm confused with the whole NV, and CA thing. I have a house in each state. So I'm assuming given that I'm a NV resident that I can have a NV supplier ship to my home in Reno and be FFL free...?

Just remember, CA has the Plague!

No, a NV FFL Dealer can not ship to a non FFL holder . So, if you are Joe citizen without an FFL, they will not ship to your home, all firearms transactions thru- a dealer will be recorded. A NV supplier can ship to anyone in the US that holds a valid, current FFL.

Mssr. Eleganté
12-28-2007, 11:46 PM
So I'm assuming given that I'm a NV resident that I can have a NV supplier ship to my home in Reno and be FFL free...?

Federal law also says that anybody in "the business" of selling firearms has to have a Federal Firearms Licenses. So even a Nevada "supplier" selling firearms to other Nevada residents on a regular basis is going to have to have and FFL.

Why can the Feds require a Federal license for transactions within the State of Nevada? Because the firearms are most likely manufactured in another State. And even if the firearms were manufactured in Nevada, sold in Nevada and used in Nevada, the Feds would still be able to regulate the sales since the items have "the potential" to be traded in interstate commerce or they have an effect on interstate commerce in some way. (yes that is BS, but you can thank FDR for that).

An FFL in your State does have a legal way to ship firearms directly to your house. It was a method included in the 1968 Gun Control Act for people who live in remote areas and don't have easy acces to gun shops. But it involves you sending paperwork to the FFL and then the FFL sending paperwork to your Chief of Police and then waiting a couple of weeks for the okay before the FFL can ship the guns to your door. Most FFL's are probably not familiar with the process unless they are located in Alaska.

radioactivelego
12-29-2007, 12:37 AM
What's your aversion to FFL's?
Got something to hide? ;)I've known many sheltered gun enthusiasts that have just been buying handguns or rifles from friends. Never stepped foot in a gun store except for ammo. As soon as I start to explain "Internet" guns or assault weapons law they give me the amazingly confusing look and give a quick glance at their 40's-60's guns or firearms they acquired back in the cash-and-carry days.

SP1200
12-29-2007, 12:51 AM
Where do you pay your taxes?
I think you are only "resident" in ONE state even though you may "live" in both.

I don't know about NV laws, but I suspect that an FFL will STILL be involved to run your NICS background check.
It's usually only private party sales that are exempt.

What's your aversion to FFL's?
Got something to hide? ;)

ohh lol. no I have nothing to hide. I've never been arrested, only sited for speeding..lol..I just don't want to pay a guy to do nothing for me you know. I was wanting to order a few inexpensive receivers with some cash I have saved up, and wanting to get the most out of my cash. say if I have $300 saved up, and I find 3 receivers for 100 each...taxes alone is going to break me enough...why should I have to pay a guy on top of that to do absolutely nothing for me besides hand me my receiver... in other words, why pay if I have to?

What you said about NICS makes sense. I see why I would have to use a FFL, because of the ex-fellion laws in NV and sort.

...as far as taxes. I pay both state taxes, and federial. I work for a company out of NV..but I visit CA for months at a time when I'm off...I have DL's in both states because their is actually a law saying if you are visiting or residing in eaither CA or NV for more than 10 days at a given time you have to become a resident and get a valid DL for that state. so as far as I know I'm just fallowing the law...??

SP1200
12-29-2007, 12:56 AM
I've known many sheltered gun enthusiasts that have just been buying handguns or rifles from friends. Never stepped foot in a gun store except for ammo. As soon as I start to explain "Internet" guns or assault weapons law they give me the amazingly confusing look and give a quick glance at their 40's-60's guns or firearms they acquired back in the cash-and-carry days.

^^ Yep thats me... I only go in to gun stores to look, then go to the gun shows to buy private. I don't see a reason to pay more..

Ford8N
12-29-2007, 4:12 AM
...I have DL's in both states because their is actually a law saying if you are visiting or residing in eaither CA or NV for more than 10 days at a given time you have to become a resident and get a valid DL for that state. so as far as I know I'm just fallowing the law...??


Are you saying that you have a DL in both states at the same time? Or do you go to the Dept of Motor Vehicles every few months and retest for a new DL every time you stay in either state? I thought the law was that you can only have ONE drivers license. Please explain, as this is good news.

4D5auto
12-31-2007, 6:51 PM
Are you saying that you have a DL in both states at the same time? Or do you go to the Dept of Motor Vehicles every few months and retest for a new DL every time you stay in either state? I thought the law was that you can only have ONE drivers license. Please explain, as this is good news.



I question that too! When you get a license in another state, you MUST surrender the license of the state you came from. I've moved back and forth from NV myself and have to surrender that states license.. If it has been less than a year of absence from that state, there is no test to take, you simply get your license re issued with a new picture.