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PistolPete75
12-21-2007, 4:20 PM
Just in case I can't say this to you guys before Christmas,

MERRY CHRISTMAS! (I prefer this than saying happy holidays)

2007 has definitely been the year of the gun for me which all got started from this website. It was a fun year, and I have learned alot from this website and have meet alot of people. It was fun shooting with you all, and I hope to do more shooting with you all in '08.

Hope this year treated you well.

May '08 be even more prosperous!

Prc329
12-21-2007, 4:23 PM
I think I'll hit Angeles Thursday since I am off. Unless you guys wanna hit the desert.

Oh and Merry Christmas to everyone. I know Sanat will be good to us all (or in my case has been :) )

PistolPete75
12-21-2007, 4:49 PM
if the hunting thing doesn't work out, i'm down to take a day off and go shooting.

rksimple
12-21-2007, 5:27 PM
Bear season is closed. They reached 1700 bears harvested on the 18th. But I'm down if you guys want to come up and shoot.

Pete-that place I told you about is 20 minutes from Joes place. 2000 yard shots if you want.

Fjold
12-21-2007, 5:27 PM
Well, Merry Christmas to you too. I enjoyed meeting, shooting and posting with you.

wildcard
12-21-2007, 7:03 PM
Bear season is closed. They reached 1700 bears harvested on the 18th. But I'm down if you guys want to come up and shoot.

Pete-that place I told you about is 20 minutes from Joes place. 2000 yard shots if you want.

None of use has a stick that could reach that far! How is the 26th looking for everyone?

wildcard
12-21-2007, 7:03 PM
Any Merry Christmas to everyone :)

rksimple
12-21-2007, 7:14 PM
26th looks good. I'm booked the 28th and 29th.

And Merry Christmas everyone.

Prc329
12-21-2007, 7:25 PM
Only day that is good for me is the 27th.

Timberwolf
12-21-2007, 10:23 PM
Merry Christmas, Feliz Navidad, and Bon Noel to all. I've enjoyed meeting all of you this year and look forward to many more. May Santa bring all of you want you wanted and a little extra!

ar15barrels
12-21-2007, 11:44 PM
None of use has a stick that could reach that far! How is the 26th looking for everyone?

Speak for yourself.
I could load some 750 Amax bullets up for my 50. ;)

Longrange on Wednesday or Thursday would be good for me.

rksimple
12-22-2007, 8:51 AM
Speak for yourself.
I could load some 750 Amax bullets up for my 50. ;)

Longrange on Wednesday or Thursday would be good for me.

Problem is, I don't think any of us have a rangefinder that will go that far. And forget trying to mil range a target at 2k. Just ain't gonna happen accurately. You shoot, we'll spot ya' in!:D

Prc329
12-22-2007, 12:34 PM
I'm out. I thought I would be back thursday but it will actually be friday.

wildcard
12-22-2007, 1:56 PM
Problem is, I don't think any of us have a rangefinder that will go that far. And forget trying to mil range a target at 2k. Just ain't gonna happen accurately. You shoot, we'll spot ya' in!:D

We can always range in 1000 yd increments..

Prc329
12-23-2007, 12:48 PM
Looks like Thursday will be good for me after all.

PistolPete75
12-23-2007, 12:51 PM
Looks like Thursday will be good for me after all.

i'm down to shoot!

rksimple
12-23-2007, 6:53 PM
Thursday is great. We can go to the spot out by Joes place if you guys want. We should be the only ones out there.

PistolPete75
12-24-2007, 5:21 PM
Thursday is great. We can go to the spot out by Joes place if you guys want. We should be the only ones out there.

sounds great! let's do it.

Prc329
12-24-2007, 5:43 PM
I'm loading up some ammo tonight and wed so I'll be ready.

PistolPete75
12-24-2007, 5:48 PM
let's talk about reloading match ammo. does everyone here trim after every firing? i do, but i hear that it doesn't matter that much if your not loading hot and using a descent brand of brass.

as everyone here knows, fully prepping brass can be a pain in the buttocks. it would be nice to just wipe of the neck a little bit, resize neck, deprime, prime, charge, and seat bullet wouldn't it?

Prc329
12-24-2007, 5:53 PM
I was told by everyones favorite gunsmith to not bother trimming until the brass is longer then spec. He said you really don't need to come back to minimum as long as the cartridge will chamber. The extra brass may help in supporting the bullet before it hits the rifling.

I hate trimming so I usually don't until it gets to long (longer then spec). if I had a guirand(?) trimmer I would do it every time.

Timberwolf
12-24-2007, 5:53 PM
let's talk about reloading match ammo. does everyone here trim after every firing? i do, but i hear that it doesn't matter that much if your not loading hot and using a descent brand of brass.

as everyone here knows, fully prepping brass can be a pain in the buttocks. it would be nice to just wipe of the neck a little bit, resize neck, deprime, prime, charge, and seat bullet wouldn't it?

I trim after the first firing and then every 5th reloading. However I F/L every time.

rksimple
12-24-2007, 5:57 PM
let's talk about reloading match ammo. does everyone here trim after every firing? i do, but i hear that it doesn't matter that much if your not loading hot and using a descent brand of brass.

as everyone here knows, fully prepping brass can be a pain in the buttocks. it would be nice to just wipe of the neck a little bit, resize neck, deprime, prime, charge, and seat bullet wouldn't it?

I trim after the first firing. Then I usually don't need to trim for another 4 firings or so. But I do them all in big batches. I'm using military brass and neck sizing with about .001-.002" of shoulder bump. I tumble, neck size/decap, prime, charge, seat bullet. Its pretty quick, especially now that I have the chargemaster. Maybe every other time, I'll clean the primer pockets. Accuracy is good and I see no discernable difference in my ES.

PistolPete75
12-24-2007, 6:00 PM
dam, i was trimming after every firing and that was the main reason why i wanted the giraud trimmer.

oh well, i'm gonna trim now only when i have to unless i'm shooting a match.

thanks for the info.

PistolPete75
12-24-2007, 6:02 PM
another question for Timber, when you close your bolt with a cartridge in it, is it a little hard to close the bolt in Savanah? i noticed the match chamber is much tighter than sami specs.

rksimple
12-24-2007, 6:06 PM
another question for Timber, when you close your bolt with a cartridge in it, is it a little hard to close the bolt in Savanah? i noticed the match chamber is much tighter than sami specs.

You probably have a shorter throat as well. To what depth are you seating the 168's?

wildcard
12-24-2007, 6:11 PM
I trim after the first firing and then every 5th reloading. However I F/L every time.

Sames here. Works for me.

PistolPete75
12-24-2007, 6:12 PM
You probably have a shorter throat as well. To what depth are you seating the 168's?

standard, 2.80

fullsized by the dillon 1200 trimmer, and then necksized using Hornady competition neck sizing die with a .336 bushing

rksimple
12-24-2007, 6:14 PM
standard, 2.80

fullsized by the dillon 1200 trimmer, and then necksized using Hornady competition neck sizing die with a .336 bushing

Do you FL size every time? Do you have a comparator to check shoulder bump? Seems odd that a FL sized cartridge would be difficult to chamber, especially if you're not engaging the lands.

PistolPete75
12-24-2007, 6:19 PM
not really fullsizing, but more of trimming with the dillon 1200 which kinds of fullsizes, and then i neck size.

i fullsize about every 4th or 5th reload.

PistolPete75
12-24-2007, 6:21 PM
it chambers without any issues, it's just that the bolt is little hard to close the bolt. i don't have to jam the cartridge in cause it slides in without a issue, but i do need to firmly close the bolt if it makes sense.

wildcard
12-24-2007, 6:25 PM
When you pull the cartridge back out, are there rub marks on the bullets? You would see them if your bullets were in the lands. Maybe you need to bump those shoulders back a little more..

Timberwolf
12-24-2007, 6:26 PM
If Randy used a match reamer (M852) it is shorter than std. Both of my rifles have this chamber. With Win cases I use a Forester N/M F/L sizing die and F/L size every time. (It's set to bump the shoulder .002 for my rifle) I have no tightness in my bolt on closing which is what I want (expecially for speed stages).

I seat with an OAL of 2.815

rksimple
12-24-2007, 6:26 PM
it chambers without any issues, it's just that the bolt is little hard to close the bolt. i don't have to jam the cartridge in cause it slides in without a issue, but i do need to firmly close the bolt if it makes sense.

Yeah, the bolt closing is what fully chambers the round. It almost sounds like your not bumping the shoulder and you're getting a zero headspace type of deal. Using a comparator would let you know.

PistolPete75
12-24-2007, 6:28 PM
i didn't check that, but that's a good idea. when i get home, i'm going to put one in the chamber and see what happens.

it slides all the way in with no issues, but you need to firm press the bolt down to lock it in before firing.

PistolPete75
12-24-2007, 6:31 PM
If Randy used a match reamer (M852) it is shorter than std. Both of my rifles have this chamber. With Win cases I use a Forester N/M F/L sizing die and F/L size every time. (It's set to bump the shoulder .002 for my rifle) I have no tightness in my bolt on closing which is what I want (expecially for speed stages).

I seat with an OAL of 2.815

thanks, timber. good info. my next set of ammo will be modified.

by the way, your xmas present is sitting at APS, merry xmas.

ar15barrels
12-24-2007, 8:13 PM
does everyone here trim after every firing?

Measure your chamber's neck length.
Many chamber designs are on the order of 0.030" longer than they need to be.
I think it's sinclair that makes the chamber neck length checkers.
Basically, it's a little cylinder with a head on it that you seat in a shortened case.
Then chamber and eject the case and the chamber will seat the tool to the exact length of your chamber.
Trim about 0.010" shorter than that measurement about every 3 firings or 0.020" shorter every 5 firings if you are averse to trimming like I am.

ar15barrels
12-24-2007, 8:20 PM
not really fullsizing, but more of trimming with the dillon 1200 which kinds of fullsizes, and then i neck size.

If you are running the brass from your old gun through the new gun's chamber and you notice hard bolt closing, the brass will need to be full length resized before you continue using it in the new gun.

The dillon trimmer is a full length sizing die, but be careful because it's possible to over-size.
They make that die a little on the short side.
It's not necessary to neck size after the dillon trimmer and you are actually over-working the brass doing this.
All you should need to do it to neck expand.
Note that the necks may already be sized down smaller than 0.336" so if you are running a redding neck sizer without an expander button, you are not actually doing anything to the necks.
You actually DO need to run an expander ball down the neck after the brass has been through the dillon trimmer.

ar15barrels
12-24-2007, 8:23 PM
it slides all the way in with no issues, but you need to firm press the bolt down to lock it in before firing.

Not enough headspace.
Measure the case's headspace length before AND after chambering.
I'll bet you see a small amount of shoulder setback due to chambering.
In that case, your GUN is doing the final sizing. ;)

PistolPete75
12-24-2007, 9:39 PM
i have the blueprints for the match reamer. i took measurements of my full-length/ neck sized brass before firing. it's the exact spec of the match reamer except the neck can be a tad wider if i wanted. then, i checked the brass after firing, same exact specs as it was before firing except there are a few minor scratches on the neck. i do need to set back the shoulder just a tad, and it'll be perfect.

this chamber is tight, and i believe is a huge factor on why the rifle is shooting so well.

guess i have two options, buy the national match fullsizing die or adjust my hornady neck sizing die to set back the shoulder .002

again thanks for the info.

ar15barrels
12-24-2007, 10:05 PM
i have the blueprints for the match reamer. i took measurements of my full-length/ neck sized brass before firing. it's the exact spec of the match reamer

What did you measure with?
Calipers can't be trusted to much more than 0.002".

An easy way to find tight spots is to sharpie mark up a case and chamber it.
The tight spots will wipe the sharpie off the case.

Due to the shape, the only accurate way to measure cartridge cases is an optical comparator.
You want at least a thousandth or two of clearance in the case body.
And at least a couple thousandths in the neck diameter.

It's normal for brass to come out of the chamber smaller than the chamber due to the expansions and contractions from the pressure wave.

PistolPete75
12-24-2007, 10:07 PM
i used a caliper. i don't have a high tech tool like an optical comparator. it's close enough for me to measure to understand what is going on.

learned today that palma reamer means should use a national match fullsizing die.

ar15barrels
12-24-2007, 10:08 PM
guess i have two options, buy the national match fullsizing die or adjust my hornady neck sizing die to set back the shoulder .002

Does the Hornady neck die also shoulder bump?
That's NOT a normal function for a neck die.

ar15barrels
12-24-2007, 10:09 PM
i used a caliper. i don't have a high tech tool like an optical comparator. it's close enough for me to measure to understand what is going on.

learned today that palma reamer means should use a national match fullsizing die.

Does your rifle use the palma chamber?
What brand of palma reamer does Randy use?

PistolPete75
12-24-2007, 10:11 PM
Does the Hornady neck die also shoulder bump?
That's NOT a normal function for a neck die.

i do have a special neck sizing die, the hornady competition neck sizing die which does bump the shoulder.

PistolPete75
12-24-2007, 10:13 PM
Does your rifle use the palma chamber?
What brand of palma reamer does Randy use?

it is a palma reamer, but i'm not allowed to share the specs on the reamer or where it's from. sorry.

ar15barrels
12-24-2007, 10:18 PM
it is a palma reamer, but i'm not allowed to share the specs on the reamer or where it's from. sorry.

That's a cop out and you know it.
I have all the drawings, but there are different versions depending on who grinds it.

rksimple
12-25-2007, 10:33 AM
Does the Hornady neck die also shoulder bump?
That's NOT a normal function for a neck die.

It does bump the shoulder. If I screw down the die about 1/4 turn past touching the shellholder, I get about .002 bump. Its a special neck die in that it does have this function.