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fizux
07-16-2013, 2:13 PM
First Unitarian Church of L.A., et al. v. NSA, et al.
Issue: Lawfulness of Patriot Act, privacy, 1A, illegal fed gun registry.

Current Status as of 11/24/2013: Plaintiff's Motion for Summary Adjudication / Partial Summary Judgment regarding Telephone Program is pending, hearing set for 2/7/2014.

11/15/2013-11/18/2013 - Various Amici Curiae motions filed.
11/6/2013 - Plaintiff's MSA (http://ia601802.us.archive.org/21/items/gov.uscourts.cand.268220/gov.uscourts.cand.268220.24.0.pdf) - Telephone Program Unlawful.
10/9/2013 - Defendant's Motion to Stay Denied (http://ia601802.us.archive.org/21/items/gov.uscourts.cand.268220/gov.uscourts.cand.268220.14.0.pdf).
9/10/2013 - First Amended Complaint filed.
7/16/2013 - Complaint (attached).

Trial Court: N.D. Cal.
Case No.: 3:13-cv-03287
Docket: http://ia601802.us.archive.org/21/items/gov.uscourts.cand.268220/gov.uscourts.cand.268220.docket.html


News Article: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/16/nsa-sued-dragnet-surveillance_n_3605104.html

Similar case from District of D.C.: Klayman v. Obama, 13-0851-RJL.
12/16/2013 opinion (https://ecf.dcd.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/show_public_doc?2013cv0851-48) holding NSA program unlawful.

Sutcliffe
07-16-2013, 2:22 PM
Everything having to do with the Bill Of Rights seems to be open to their interpretation.

taperxz
07-16-2013, 2:26 PM
The government will ultimately win this case.

speedrrracer
07-16-2013, 2:28 PM
Sick 'em!

anthonyca
07-16-2013, 2:40 PM
Just listening to the radio while making a parts list for a job. CGF was mentioned in the news flash on KGO as working with the Electronic Frontier Foundation against illegal government surveillance.

We are a civil rights group and this is how we get ahead. Great job.

Rossi357
07-16-2013, 3:00 PM
Apparently the Government has decided that it's for my own good to give up some of my rights in order to be more secure.
They neglected to ask me about that.
NO!!!

IVC
07-16-2013, 3:12 PM
Time for the political center and center-left to wake up to whom they helped elect.

Mitch
07-16-2013, 3:41 PM
Apparently the Government has decided that it's for my own good to give up some of my rights in order to be more secure.
They neglected to ask me about that.
NO!!!

Actually they did. Pretty much all the NSA "abuses" exposed by Snowden were duly authorized by Federal legislation including the USA PATRIOT Act, which was passed by the House on a 357 to 66 vote; and by 98 to 1 in the Senate.

Everyone seemed to be all in favor at the time, except the sponsors of the Benjamin Franklin True Patriot Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Franklin_True_Patriot_Act), the spoilsports.

stix213
07-16-2013, 4:07 PM
Actually they did. Pretty much all the NSA "abuses" exposed by Snowden were duly authorized by Federal legislation including the USA PATRIOT Act, which was passed by the House on a 357 to 66 vote; and by 98 to 1 in the Senate.

Everyone seemed to be all in favor at the time, except the sponsors of the Benjamin Franklin True Patriot Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Franklin_True_Patriot_Act), the spoilsports.

To be fair, the members of Congress who voted for the legislation likely didn't understand the role of the FISA court was to just rubber stamp anything and everything the government wants. If the FISA court worked as intended, and wasn't just there to come up with some legal sounding way to approve everything while pretending the Bill of Rights has been rescinded, then the legislation wouldn't have ended up being nearly as bad as it has.

http://epic.org/privacy/wiretap/stats/fisa_stats.html

Mitch
07-16-2013, 4:13 PM
To be fair, the members of Congress who voted for the legislation likely didn't understand the role of the FISA court was to just rubber stamp anything and everything the government wants.

Not enough of a rubber stamp for the Bush Administration, which dispensed with the FISA court and operated outside of the law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSA_warrantless_surveillance_%282001%E2%80%9307%29 ) for most of the last decade. I don't recall much outrage around here when this was exposed by the New York Times in December 2005.

Remember what Pogo said?

Kodemonkey
07-16-2013, 4:22 PM
Wow, no comment on the strange bedfellows CGF and ACLU make?

Although I don't find it strange personally, there used to be such vitriol for the ACLU on this board I find the silence deafening. :)

fizux
07-16-2013, 4:39 PM
Wow, no comment on the strange bedfellows CGF and ACLU make?

Although I don't find it strange personally, there used to be such vitriol for the ACLU on this board I find the silence deafening. :)
From the PuffHost article, I surmised that it was two different lawsuits; ACLU last month, and CGF threw in with EFF today.

I tried to find the complaint, but it looks like it is not up in ECF; I will keep checking PACER and update the OP accordingly.

wildhawker
07-16-2013, 4:44 PM
From the PuffHost article, I surmised that it was two different lawsuits; ACLU last month, and CGF threw in with EFF today.

I tried to find the complaint, but it looks like it is not up in ECF; I will keep checking PACER and update the OP accordingly.

See https://www.eff.org/node/75009.

-Brandon

bwiese
07-16-2013, 4:45 PM
Wow, no comment on the strange bedfellows CGF and ACLU make?

Although I don't find it strange personally, there used to be such vitriol for the
ACLU on this board I find the silence deafening. :)

CGF is much more practically nuanced than many board posters here. CGF understands that civil rights are at least somewhat tied together. [Other nonanalytical gunnies can't get the idea that Roe v Wade actually helps gun rights, etc.]

The vitriol is really just from the far right goons who don't care about women, gays, or even other-than-gun rights (i.e, "kill'em'all-let-god-sort-em-out" copsucker types who don't see a need for the 4th Amendment.)

As Gene Hoffman says, "The left hates guns, but the right hates rights."

Remember many 'police state' encroachments came from "law & order" statist Reeps. (Patriot Act!) That just gets magnified by Dems who like to populate such infrastructures with staff that vote for benefits.

And this is from someone (me) who is a bit hard-line on certain conservative matter that tie in with liberty.

fizux
07-16-2013, 4:57 PM
See https://www.eff.org/node/75009.

-Brandon
Thanks, Wildhawker. Its always better to have the straight scoop rather than relying on RumInt from the HP.

taperxz
07-16-2013, 4:59 PM
CGF is much more practically nuanced than many board posters here. CGF understands that civil rights are at least somewhat tied together. [Other nonanalytical gunnies can't get the idea that Roe v Wade actually helps gun rights, etc.]

The vitriol is really just from the far right goons who don't care about women, gays, or even other-than-gun rights (i.e, "kill'em'all-let-god-sort-em-out" copsucker types who don't see a need for the 4th Amendment.)

As Gene Hoffman says, "The left hates guns, but the right hates rights."

Remember many 'police state' encroachments came from "law & order" statist Reeps. (Patriot Act!) That just gets magnified by Dems who like to populate such infrastructures with staff that vote for benefits.

And this is from someone (me) who is a bit hard-line on certain conservative matter that tie in with liberty.

I agree with this 100%. I also think the lawsuit will fail in court. The acts of government in this case were and have been legal for years now due to 9/11.

The data received (Snowden style) is pretty raw in form and if the checks and balances are in fact in place to protect that data from misuse by government, the courts will not deny the government. Especially if this is being done correctly and proved to be used for National Security. :) JMHO whether its liked or not.

Its gonna be a tough road to hoe to try an overturn a law pushed by Republicans and passed and then continued to be driven by the Democrats who just put a new set of tires on it.;)

Kodemonkey
07-16-2013, 5:00 PM
Thanks, Wildhawker. Its always better to have the straight scoop rather than relying on RumInt from the HP.

Greenpeace, Islam, and Marijuana, oh my! :D

ZombieKiller
07-16-2013, 5:23 PM
Heard it on 1070 as well...


Sent from a deserted island using a message in a bottle....

Fjold
07-16-2013, 5:24 PM
"Politics makes strange bedfellows"

Charles Dudley Warner

sully007
07-16-2013, 5:29 PM
Dupe.........

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=793883


"One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws."

stix213
07-16-2013, 5:57 PM
Not enough of a rubber stamp for the Bush Administration, which dispensed with the FISA court and operated outside of the law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSA_warrantless_surveillance_%282001%E2%80%9307%29 ) for most of the last decade. I don't recall much outrage around here when this was exposed by the New York Times in December 2005.

Remember what Pogo said?

Maybe you don't remember the outrage in 2005 cause your join date is in 2008? :p

stix213
07-16-2013, 6:00 PM
I agree with this 100%. I also think the lawsuit will fail in court. The acts of government in this case were and have been legal for years now due to 9/11.

The data received (Snowden style) is pretty raw in form and if the checks and balances are in fact in place to protect that data from misuse by government, the courts will not deny the government. Especially if this is being done correctly and proved to be used for National Security. :) JMHO whether its liked or not.

Its gonna be a tough road to hoe to try an overturn a law pushed by Republicans and passed and then continued to be driven by the Democrats who just put a new set of tires on it.;)

A lot of things were legal for a very long time, yet no longer legal today....

RRangel
07-16-2013, 6:05 PM
To be fair, the members of Congress who voted for the legislation likely didn't understand the role of the FISA court was to just rubber stamp anything and everything the government wants. If the FISA court worked as intended, and wasn't just there to come up with some legal sounding way to approve everything while pretending the Bill of Rights has been rescinded, then the legislation wouldn't have ended up being nearly as bad as it has.

http://epic.org/privacy/wiretap/stats/fisa_stats.html

The very author, Rep. Jim Sensenbrenner, claims that the Patriot Act is being abused. That is was never meant for the data collection being done now.

jeremiah12
07-16-2013, 6:15 PM
CGF is much more practically nuanced than many board posters here. CGF understands that civil rights are at least somewhat tied together. [Other nonanalytical gunnies can't get the idea that Roe v Wade actually helps gun rights, etc.]

The vitriol is really just from the far right goons who don't care about women, gays, or even other-than-gun rights (i.e, "kill'em'all-let-god-sort-em-out" copsucker types who don't see a need for the 4th Amendment.)

As Gene Hoffman says, "The left hates guns, but the right hates rights."

Remember many 'police state' encroachments came from "law & order" statist Reeps. (Patriot Act!) That just gets magnified by Dems who like to populate such infrastructures with staff that vote for benefits.

And this is from someone (me) who is a bit hard-line on certain conservative matter that tie in with liberty.

Neither side cares about the Bill of Rights or our rights unless it fits with their political agenda and can be exploited to raise money and votes.

Many here do not support Snowden, and yet this suit probably has its best chance of success because of him. It has been common knowledge the NSA has been doing this for years but knowing and proving are two different things.

The crowd that says I have nothing to hide so let the government do this need to spend time researching history, especially the rise of Nazi Germany or Stalinist Russia. They collected all the information they could get and then when it was convenient it was used against you.

sunborder
07-16-2013, 8:12 PM
Was also mentioned on NPR.

GoZoner
07-16-2013, 8:41 PM
Actually they did. Pretty much all the NSA "abuses" exposed by Snowden were duly authorized by Federal legislation including the USA PATRIOT Act, which was passed by the House on a 357 to 66 vote; and by 98 to 1 in the Senate. [...]

How are those Reps and Dems working out for you?

http://thoughtsonliberty.com/files/2011/02/Libertarian-Conspiracy.jpg

Except at the extremes, you are all Libertarian; you are just no ready to accept it.

curtisfong
07-16-2013, 10:10 PM
WHAT!

Wow.

EFF + CGF + ACLU

Pure awesome.

nobody_special
07-16-2013, 10:10 PM
Thank you, CGF.

Mitch
07-17-2013, 6:53 AM
The very author, Rep. Jim Sensenbrenner, claims that the Patriot Act is being abused. That is was never meant for the data collection being done now.

Well, what a surprise, he created it and voted for it (http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2001/roll398.xml) after all. So once it all goes PREDICTABLY pear-shaped, he comes out and washes his hands of it and bleats, "But that's not what we meant!"

When you hand over sweeping powers to the Executive Branch with little scope of public oversight and even less regard for essential civil liberties, just what the hell did you expect was going to happen?

DTOM CA!
07-17-2013, 7:22 AM
I am glad this has come about. Obviously I want CGF to win but at the very least I want Americans to hear the conversation and know what our Government is doing to it's own people. I am sure that for everything we know that they are doing to spy on us there are 5 things we don't know. I go on the notion that if they have the ability (technology) then they are using it on there own people. I call it soft tyranny.

Hoologan
07-17-2013, 7:32 AM
Awesome! Way to go CGF!

naeco81
07-17-2013, 8:02 AM
Time to donate to CGF again... lawsuits cost money. https://www.calgunsfoundation.org/donate/

Mr. P
07-17-2013, 8:24 AM
Additionally, Franklin Armory and Green Peace are plaintiffs. Makes for strange bedfellows. But hey, whatever works!

scarville
07-17-2013, 9:59 AM
"kill'em'all-let-god-sort-em-out" copsucker types who don't see a need for the 4th Amendment.

:rofl2:

Funtimes
07-17-2013, 12:17 PM
Wow, no comment on the strange bedfellows CGF and ACLU make?

Although I don't find it strange personally, there used to be such vitriol for the ACLU on this board I find the silence deafening. :)

ACLU Hawaii has helped the Hawaii Defense Foundation on numerous occasions. We don't have to agree on guns, to understand that there are other rights that we can still work together to improve.

The enemy of your enemy - is your friend, at least when facing your enemy.

Stonewalker
07-17-2013, 12:42 PM
I am so proud of CGF today. I've dreamed about CGF and the EFF working together on something for as long as I've known about them. This is so full of win.

1recluse
07-17-2013, 4:37 PM
I am extremely slow on the uptake (nonanalytical gunny), please point out how Roe VS Wade put teeth into the 2A?

jarhead714
07-17-2013, 4:45 PM
Wow, no comment on the strange bedfellows CGF and ACLU make?

Although I don't find it strange personally, there used to be such vitriol for the ACLU on this board I find the silence deafening. :)

I remember as a young man cursing the ACLU for the way they could bring progress to a halt. Now I find myself applauding them.:confused::confused:

fizux
07-17-2013, 4:55 PM
I am extremely slow on the uptake (nonanalytical gunny), please point out how Roe VS Wade put teeth into the 2A?
Generally, it has to do with how much a State can regulate vs. restrict vs. prohibit a right from being exercised. For example, a recent abortion decision (Isaacson v. Horne) was the basis of a 28j letter filed in Richards v. Prieto. The letter is attached to Gray Peterson's post here:
https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=770223

If you were Army, you'd be high speed like me.

1recluse
07-17-2013, 5:27 PM
Thank You Fizux. I will read it. Maybe I am like others who think I have a handle on an issue and more information makes me understand I don't understand.

Live Well
Ken

Coded-Dude
07-17-2013, 7:46 PM
Gene was on The Blaze tonight talking about the lawsuit. http://www.video.theblaze.com/media/video.jsp?content_id=28930667

You have to be a blaze subscriber to see the complete segment.

California44
07-18-2013, 12:58 AM
Gene was on The Blaze tonight talking about the lawsuit. http://www.video.theblaze.com/media/video.jsp?content_id=28930667

You have to be a blaze subscriber to see the complete segment.

Watching it now

fizux
11-08-2013, 6:23 PM
Update: Motion for Summary Adjudication / Partial Summary Judgment filed 11/6/2013.

Chipsa
11-16-2013, 10:38 PM
The enemy of your enemy - is your friend, at least when facing your enemy.

The enemy of your enemy is your enemy's enemy. No more, no less.

fizux
12-16-2013, 8:54 PM
Related Case:

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/judge-deals-nsa-defeat-bulk-phone-collection-21236320

taperxz
12-16-2013, 9:06 PM
The media and CGF will lose this case based on National Security.

Even if they get some kind of win, it will be neutered.

Presidential orders don't seem to get to much leeway on discoverable evidence.

hoffmang
12-16-2013, 9:14 PM
The media and CGF will lose this case based on National Security.

Even if they get some kind of win, it will be neutered.

Presidential orders don't seem to get to much leeway on discoverable evidence.

I guess a very similar argument wining in the DC District Federal Court is evidence we're going to lose?

http://legaltimes.typepad.com/files/obamansa.pdf

Up is down. Left is right...

-Gene

bob7122
12-16-2013, 9:18 PM
Wow, no comment on the strange bedfellows CGF and ACLU make?

Although I don't find it strange personally, there used to be such vitriol for the ACLU on this board I find the silence deafening. :)

the enemy of my enemy is my friend. the NRA should hop on this as well.

taperxz
12-16-2013, 9:19 PM
I guess a very similar argument wining in the DC District Federal Court is evidence we're going to lose?

http://legaltimes.typepad.com/files/obamansa.pdf

Up is down. Left is right...

-Gene

I still think your "win" which you really should do in light of the evidence will be neutered due to National Security Gene.

I am not saying i don't agree with your suit. I'm saying the government will still cover up what they can legally.

bob7122
12-16-2013, 9:21 PM
First Unitarian Church of L.A., et al. v. NSA, et al.
Issue: Lawfulness of Patriot Act, privacy, 1A, illegal fed gun registry.

Current Status as of 11/24/2013: Plaintiff's Motion for Summary Adjudication / Partial Summary Judgment regarding Telephone Program is pending, hearing set for 2/7/2014.

11/15/2013-11/18/2013 - Various Amici Curiae motions filed.
11/6/2013 - Plaintiff's MSA (http://ia601802.us.archive.org/21/items/gov.uscourts.cand.268220/gov.uscourts.cand.268220.24.0.pdf) - Telephone Program Unlawful.
10/9/2013 - Defendant's Motion to Stay Denied (http://ia601802.us.archive.org/21/items/gov.uscourts.cand.268220/gov.uscourts.cand.268220.14.0.pdf).
9/10/2013 - First Amended Complaint filed.
7/16/2013 - Complaint (attached).

Trial Court: N.D. Cal.
Case No.: 3:13-cv-03287
Docket: http://ia601802.us.archive.org/21/items/gov.uscourts.cand.268220/gov.uscourts.cand.268220.docket.html


News Article: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/16/nsa-sued-dragnet-surveillance_n_3605104.html

Similar case from District of D.C.: Klayman v. Obama, 13-0851-RJL.
12/16/2013 opinion (https://ecf.dcd.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/show_public_doc?2013cv0851-48) holding NSA program unlawful.

it would have been nice to see the NRA behind this.

taperxz
12-16-2013, 9:27 PM
I guess a very similar argument wining in the DC District Federal Court is evidence we're going to lose?

http://legaltimes.typepad.com/files/obamansa.pdf

Up is down. Left is right...

-Gene

I still think your "win" which you really should do in light of the evidence will be neutered due to National Security Gene.

I am not saying i don't agree with your suit. I'm saying the government will still cover up what they can legally.

Oh and lets not fool people here.

One of the reasons Snowden will not be granted amnesty is because the government does not want him here as a private citizen. He can then be subpoenaed into every court case that comes about. ;) They don't want him in jail, they want him where no US court can get to him. ;)

nobody_special
12-27-2013, 10:22 AM
ACLU case was dismissed today. :(

Woodsy
12-27-2013, 12:42 PM
Was the "Hon" Jeffrey S White still in the case? It must take a lot of nerve to tell this large group of civil rights supporters to go pound sand. It's a matter of time until the floodgates fly open and suits like this will start cascading forth. The support of such diverse groups bodes well for freedom!

curtisfong
12-27-2013, 12:49 PM
Another corrupt judge tears a few more pages out of the constitution. Awesome!

Woodsy
12-27-2013, 12:51 PM
Petition the government for redress of grievances, remove Jeffrey S White!

curtisfong
12-27-2013, 1:01 PM
a wide net that could find and isolate gossamer contacts among suspected terrorists in an ocean of seemingly disconnected data

Wow! What breathless hyperbole! This judge is a piece of work.

LoSJoe
12-29-2013, 8:15 AM
Well, I'd say stop electing people to congress and the senate that pass these laws. Frankly, I don't think this country will be having anymore elections. Nope, and the sad thing is, we let them do it to us.

curtisfong
12-29-2013, 11:36 AM
Well, I'd say stop electing people to congress and the senate that pass these laws.

The whole point to the judicial system is to provide a check against an idiot population so dumb that it makes laws that curtail its own rights.

kcbrown
12-29-2013, 6:00 PM
ACLU case was dismissed today. :(

Here's how surprised I am:

--->||<---


Many people want to eliminate the right to keep and bear arms. Guess what, folks? The rest of the rights go down the drain right along with it.

Either support all rights, or be content to see the rights you like torn to shreds with the same "reasoning" that is used to send RKBA to its grave. There are no other options on the table, and this case is proof of that.

sl0re10
12-29-2013, 7:41 PM
Not enough of a rubber stamp for the Bush Administration, which dispensed with the FISA court and operated outside of the law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSA_warrantless_surveillance_%282001%E2%80%9307%29 ) for most of the last decade. I don't recall much outrage around here when this was exposed by the New York Times in December 2005.

Remember what Pogo said?

True; which is why I try to avoid blaming the Obama admin for all of this for just continuing the problem. I just stick to it being a problem that needs to be fixed... no blame to democrats specifically.

chainsaw
12-30-2013, 5:22 PM
Is the ACLU et al. case that was dismissed last week identical to the First Unitarian Church et al. case that the CGF had joined?

I think those are two separate cases, but I'm not sure. Unfortunately, the press coverage never quotes the exact title of the case, and always talks about the 400 lbs gorilla plaintiff (the ACLU), not the minor ones.

hoffmang
01-02-2014, 8:34 PM
Is the ACLU et al. case that was dismissed last week identical to the First Unitarian Church et al. case that the CGF had joined?

I think those are two separate cases, but I'm not sure. Unfortunately, the press coverage never quotes the exact title of the case, and always talks about the 400 lbs gorilla plaintiff (the ACLU), not the minor ones.

Different case. The right to assemble/associate without surveillance and compilation of a membership list is a bit of a different take on the issues.

-Gene

LoSJoe
01-03-2014, 12:46 AM
Here's how surprised I am:

--->||<---


Many people want to eliminate the right to keep and bear arms. Guess what, folks? The rest of the rights go down the drain right along with it.

Either support all rights, or be content to see the rights you like torn to shreds with the same "reasoning" that is used to send RKBA to its grave. There are no other options on the table, and this case is proof of that.


i have often said, it is the second that helps us enforce all of the others. These folks in the media like Piers Morgan just don't understand, when they take away our guns, then they will silence the media, search without warrents etc. All that stops them now is the fact that we still have our guns.