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View Full Version : The shortest (legal) 91/30 you'll ever see *** NOW WITH VIDEO ***


AJAX22
12-19-2007, 6:57 AM
So I went ahead and did it.

I had a 91/30 barreled receiver shortened to the point where even with a blind pinned/welded AMD65 aftermarket muzzlebrake attached the barrel is just a nat's anus longer than 16 inches (measured to the breachface)

The grand scheme is to take one of the light weight aftermarket monte carlo stocks and partially inlet the end of it so that the brake sitts flush and the porting is unobstructed. Then I'll take a bent bolt setup and the misc little parts it needs and throw it togeather, attach some sort of front sight and get the whole thing parkerized.

It should have the effect of making this 91/30 into the single most irritating firearm that has ever been shot at the next bench over ;)

This way, when I'm shooting my little .22 target rifles and some jerk sets up next to me, takes a step back from the firing line and opens up with his .500 S&W revolver, I can simply put my target rifle away, pull the bite-sized 91/30 out of the rack, and teach them a brief (but effective) lesson in range ettiquite.

I should start a pool on how far the fireball will shoot out sideways.

any guesses? :D

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u115/Ratduster77/DCP_0425.jpg

***Edit***

Videos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0httWdyMTAI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYrQ3Lz56vg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wAXv5Q3cmM

sloguy
12-19-2007, 7:29 AM
ok, ill play. my guess is 3 foot 6 inch.

what do i win if im right?

AJAX22
12-19-2007, 7:54 AM
ok, ill play. my guess is 3 foot 6 inch.

what do i win if im right?

You get to shoot it ;)

savasyn
12-19-2007, 8:53 AM
That thing will be quite the show!

kermit315
12-19-2007, 11:07 AM
haha, i will guess 3ft 9in fireball and a dirty pair of pants for whomever is standing next to you when you light it off.....

good stuff man.

Jamie

GSequoia
12-19-2007, 11:25 AM
Instant BBQ kit.

Sydwaiz
12-19-2007, 11:47 AM
Why will it be irritating? It's not like it's a .50 or anything. Nice work though. It'll be neat when it's finished.

If you really want it to be irritating, load up some black powder loads for it. Muzzle brake will direct all the smoke and sparks to your neighbors!

AJAX22
12-19-2007, 12:23 PM
I could have more made, but I'd prefer to put you in touch with a few guys who are setup to do it and tell you where to buy the parts you need.

All you need to buy is basicly a 91/30 barreled receiver and a tapco AMD65 muzzlebreak.

I've got extra barreled receivers ($30) and tapco muzzlebreaks are about $40...

I've thought about having a run of 10 or so made up, but it would be a situation where you pay in advance and wait three-four months to get the gun itself... and it wouldn't be cheap

I really reccomend that you buy the materials and have a gunsmith do it for you (or if you have a lathe and a 14mm negative die, just do it yourself)

Remember that you still have to inlet the stock for the muzzlebrake so that it will fit properly.

internet_user
12-19-2007, 12:46 PM
how are you going to aim it?

bobfried
12-19-2007, 12:48 PM
I would have liked to see an AK74 styled brake on it instead of the AMD. Whilst the AMD one does create a bit more side blast, there's nothing like the FIREBALL INFERNO and sideblast that the AK74 brake generates.

QuarterBoreGunner
12-19-2007, 12:50 PM
You magnificent b*stard!

That's outstanding.

DRH
12-19-2007, 1:41 PM
I was going to cut my Ruger mini-14 down like that until I realized that after I had cut the barrel but before I had permanently installed the flash hider I would had manufacturer a short barrelled rifle. Please be careful out there!

50 Freak
12-19-2007, 2:07 PM
It should have the effect of making this 91/30 into the single most irritating firearm that has ever been shot at the next bench over

I like the way you think

5968
12-19-2007, 3:45 PM
You will have to post some video of you shooting it after you get it completed.

bohoki
12-19-2007, 5:01 PM
that is so cool i hope you shorten the buttstock to the minimum legal oal

just chop and mod the wood and paint it black

it is like one of those little 22 crickets but in mean russian rimmed

Ford8N
12-19-2007, 5:08 PM
I would have liked to see an AK74 styled brake on it instead of the AMD. Whilst the AMD one does create a bit more side blast, there's nothing like the FIREBALL INFERNO and sideblast that the AK74 brake generates.

I've already done that to my M44:devil2:


You are correct. Not a problem if you are the shooter, but the benches on either side....

..so I'm told:devil2:

Socal858
12-19-2007, 5:14 PM
I've already done that to my M44:devil2:


You are correct. Not a problem if you are the shooter, but the benches on either side....

..so I'm told:devil2:


pictores prease:43:

Spiggy
12-19-2007, 5:18 PM
Obyrez prease:43:
Fixed it for ya

Mark, you're almost there!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v614/Spiggys_pics/obryez.jpg

ar15barrels
12-19-2007, 5:55 PM
I had a 91/30 barreled receiver shortened to the point where even with a blind pinned/welded AMD65 aftermarket muzzlebrake attached the barrel is just a nat's anus longer than 16 inches

This looks vaguely familiar to me.
It's almost like I did one like that just last night. :sleeping:

AJAX22
12-19-2007, 6:23 PM
This looks vaguely familiar to me.
It's almost like I did one like that just last night. :sleeping:

lol, yeah it does kinda look like that doesn't it?

I'd have given you credit for doing it, but I thought you didn't want to be swamped with guys begging you to do it again.

As always,

Randal you are the Man.

Stormfeather
12-19-2007, 8:19 PM
Im willing to bet the fireball will be 4'3", plus im willing to stand there and hold the measuing tape to find out! I gotz Nomex! :D

.22guy
12-19-2007, 8:36 PM
I've thought about doing this to a junker m44 I have. Just because. I was going to cut the barrel off and the stock as well to make it as short as legally possible.

I decided against it because i don't think I would be able to aim it and keep my teeth, as well as not re-breaking my nose. I would hang tight onto that beast so it doesn't hit you in the face. I'm very curious what it will be like when you fire it. Let us know.

ar15barrels
12-19-2007, 8:37 PM
I decided against it because i don't think I would be able to aim it and keep my teeth, as well as not re-breaking my nose.

There are lots of front sights that can be silver soldered to the barrel. ;)

.22guy
12-19-2007, 9:40 PM
There are lots of front sights that can be silver soldered to the barrel. ;)

I was thinking of going with a scout-mounted red dot. But do you think I could get any kind of cheek weld without the rear of the bolt popping me in the face or something? I did some simple math in my head, 16 inch barrel + shortened stock = bloody face.

Maybe I'd just do the short barrel and leave the stock alone. That would make one heck of fire breather. What do you think?

ar15barrels
12-19-2007, 9:57 PM
I was thinking of going with a scout-mounted red dot. But do you think I could get any kind of cheek weld without the rear of the bolt popping me in the face or something? I did some simple math in my head, 16 inch barrel + shortened stock = bloody face.

Maybe I'd just do the short barrel and leave the stock alone. That would make one heck of fire breather. What do you think?

I personally would put a huge compensator on it so it does not jump.

GSequoia
12-19-2007, 10:05 PM
I personally would put a huge compensator on it so it does not jump.

Would that be called over compensating? :D

ar15barrels
12-19-2007, 10:13 PM
Would that be called over compensating? :D

Over compensating is when the gun recoils downward.
I built a race 1100 that did this.
The comp was the last 3" of barrel and I made a big block that was pinned to the barrel to give more wall thickness.
Then I drilled a series of angled holes through the block/barrel.

The gun was setup with a 24" barrel and full length magazine that held 11 or 12 shells.
During fire, the gun would recoil downwards for the first 3-4 shots.
As you empty the gun, it gets lighter and starts to recoil upwards.

I really liked that shotgun.
I could clean six 8" diameter plates off a 10yd plate rack in 1.76 seconds from low ready. :)

Ford8N
12-20-2007, 4:10 AM
There are lots of front sights that can be silver soldered to the barrel. ;)

I was thinking of turning down the barrel just before the muzzle brake threads. Then just remount the original front site. These Mosins are so cheap, you can experiment alot.:43:

Sal
12-20-2007, 6:11 AM
Well taking the project one step further, with another thing ajax and i had come up with was making them take a detachable PSL magazine. Personally i like the shortened wood stock, but the inletted monte carlo style sounds pretty nice as well, just gotta be careful that fireball doesnt melt the end!:p


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/Spikespigiel/mosinprojectcollage.jpg

AJAX22
12-20-2007, 6:37 PM
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u115/Ratduster77/DCP_0437.jpg

Here is a pic of the receiver in a box alongside one of my Remmy 11's and my 870.

for refference the 870 has a two shot extension tube and a 21 inch barrel.

PanzerAce
12-20-2007, 9:19 PM
so the real question is, how much to get a mosin cut down and have a -74 brake perm attached to reach the legal limit. I REALLY want to do this now.

hybridatsun350
12-21-2007, 9:00 AM
I want one just like the one you had made! haha :D

jtv3062
12-22-2007, 3:55 PM
found these

AJAX22
12-22-2007, 7:58 PM
Thats a SBR owned by member PTK on thehighroad.org,

Last I checked those wern't quite legal in CA. ;)

BaronW
12-22-2007, 11:54 PM
$200 tax stamp for an $89 hacksaw job.

Spiggy
12-23-2007, 12:00 AM
yes, but think of all the fun he has when he screams "COSSACK BLASTER!" and fireballs the firing line!

internet_user
12-25-2007, 6:19 PM
I am going to do this to one of my crappier mosins. So if I cut it to 15" and then weld a muzzle break to it so that it is over 16", it will be legal?

saki302
12-26-2007, 3:30 AM
Nice Rem 11 Ajax :D

Contrary to common sense, a short barrel will kick less than a long barrel provided both are compensated- you have more gas to push through the comp! This is known to the .50 cal shooting folks.

If you really want to blow someone off the line, get a .510DTC rifle. Nothing sounds like the BMG/DTC, except tannerite.

-Dave

AJAX22
12-26-2007, 7:17 AM
Thanks ;),

Would you believe that I got it as a 'gunsmith special' for 145$ shipped with both barrels? I wanted a gun to hack up into a bonnie and clyde whippit gun, but it was just too nice. So now its my trap/bird hunting rig.

Back on topic though,

Yes I'd love to get a .510 DTC, however on a student budget I just can't justify owning a rifle that is worth more than my car. (Also I think .510 DTC may be extinct if the .50 BMG comes back) The reloading dies for the .510 DTC cartridge alone cost more than my entire budget for building this little range toy.

As far as barrel length/recoil goes, what you say is true in terms of recoil energy, but because of the lighter weight of a synthetic stock and the reduced mass of the barrel assembly, the short barrel setup should have a much sharper Kinnetic energy transfer to the shooter. (and therefore a larger felt recoil)

I have a bunch of mosin nagants, so I'll try the 91/30, the m44, and the FBP16 togeather to compare them.




Nice Rem 11 Ajax :D

Contrary to common sense, a short barrel will kick less than a long barrel provided both are compensated- you have more gas to push through the comp! This is known to the .50 cal shooting folks.

If you really want to blow someone off the line, get a .510DTC rifle. Nothing sounds like the BMG/DTC, except tannerite.

-Dave

ar15barrels
12-26-2007, 8:17 AM
I think .510 DTC may be extinct if the .50 BMG comes back

What is this you speak of? :confused:

ar15barrels
12-26-2007, 9:08 AM
NO!, You will have made a SBR as soon as you cut it to 15"!

Not if you remove the barrel before cutting it. ;)

AJAX22
12-26-2007, 1:03 PM
I believe what randal was refering to was that the barrel is removed and then cut/pinned while the receiver is not under your control (i.e. at another house, or being held by someone for you)

In order for you to be constructivly posessing a SBR both components have to be under your singular control at the same time.

If all you have at the shop is a short barrel (thats only short for a few minuites) you're not constructivly posessing anything.

This is especially true if you drop off the barrel (but not the receiver) with your gunsmith and keep the receiver yourself.

IANAL, YMMV

ar15barrels
12-26-2007, 4:41 PM
If a tree falls in the woods and there's nobody there to hear it, does it make a noise?

brassburnz
12-27-2007, 11:24 AM
Damn! I so much wanted to do it myself, but I guess the barrel goes to Randall while I keep the receiver.

AJAX22
01-19-2008, 11:52 AM
:D

Guess what I get to shoot tomorrow ;)



Here is the FBP16 next to a m44 and a normal 91/30 and a detail shot of the muzzle.

The Stock needed to be Inlet slightly, but the porting clears perfectly.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v428/slo_bikes/th_fbp16detail.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v428/slo_bikes/fbp16detail.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v428/slo_bikes/th_fbp16comparison.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v428/slo_bikes/fbp16comparison.jpg)

sloguy
01-19-2008, 10:39 PM
i cant believe that this thread has gone half a day with no comments. that thing is going to be wicked fun!

Atmosphere
01-20-2008, 12:35 AM
Everyone keeps mention that the recoil is going to be horrendous but how does this differ than Socom-16's or other .308 platforms with 16in barrels? Or is 7.62x54R in a class above .308/7.62nato?

sloguy
01-20-2008, 7:33 AM
Everyone keeps mention that the recoil is going to be horrendous but how does this differ than Socom-16's or other .308 platforms with 16in barrels? Or is 7.62x54R in a class above .308/7.62nato?

im not sure. the cartridge is aprox the same. the rifle is light weight so it should have more kick just from that.

TKM
01-20-2008, 11:06 AM
Maybe get a pinned paratrooper stock. You know, to keep the weight down.
















Phooey, nobody ever likes my ideas.

hybridatsun350
01-20-2008, 11:21 AM
This rifle will actually kick less than your average M44. The standard M44 has no muzzle break, and has a longer barrel. The longer barrel accelerates the bullet more, and actually causes more recoil. The 91/30's create quite a bit more recoil energy than m44's do.

AJAX22
01-20-2008, 5:55 PM
Back from the range,

Even without having sights fitted yet It was still prety easy to keep on target (line the top of the muzzlebreak between the two posts that hold the leaf sight)

Blew a prety good hole through trees.

Surprisingly recoil was non existant, it kicked less than a .410 and the muzzleblast(for the shooter) was about the same as a 16 inch AR. there was a large fireball, but because most of the blast was ported sideways it didn't effect the shooters vision.

The report for those standing next to it/to the side of it/anywhere but directly behind the shooter was really quite impressive.

It was fun, lots and lots of fun. This is going to be one of my new favorite range toys.

AJAX22
01-20-2008, 6:59 PM
THE VIDEO

ony one muzzleblast caught on tape but its still impressive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0httWdyMTAI

AJAX22
01-20-2008, 7:02 PM
Here is SLOGUY firing it one handed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYrQ3Lz56vg

AJAX22
01-20-2008, 7:03 PM
And here is me firing it for the first time (please excuse the goofy look on my face, it was alot of fun)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wAXv5Q3cmM

Wyatt
01-20-2008, 7:03 PM
lol, that is sweet.

mike100
01-20-2008, 7:14 PM
did you have it refinished after the welding? it looks pretty good.

AJAX22
01-20-2008, 7:18 PM
Nope, thats the original finish. I'll get it parkerized once I have the sights figured out.

I figure that is probably the hardest finish to screw up while draging the gun through the hills.

hybridatsun350
01-20-2008, 7:24 PM
Looks awesome. It's amazing what a muzzle break will do!

sloguy
01-21-2008, 1:43 AM
i really like the fbp16. recoil was so mild i was amazed. less than my blackhawk 357 using 38spl. theres no jolt. just a gentle push. i think it kicks less than a m1 carbine if thats possible. maybe later we will shoot them side by side and see.

ar15barrels
01-21-2008, 8:30 AM
Surprisingly recoil was non existant, it kicked less than a .410 and the muzzleblast(for the shooter) was about the same as a 16 inch AR. there was a large fireball, but because most of the blast was ported sideways it didn't effect the shooters vision.

I forget, but did I tweak the design of that brake before I permanent attached it?

AJAX22
01-21-2008, 1:24 PM
IIRC it was still just the stock AMD65 brake (although shorter and threaded to standerd instead of metric) the long one that used to be available through tapco for permenantly welding to AMD kits to make them into rifles.

we talked about making it more efficient but we didn't do it (it would have been alot of work.)



I forget, but did I tweak the design of that brake before I permanent attached it?

AJAX22
01-21-2008, 8:45 PM
Does anyone know of a range that is open at night?

I had thought that it was dark enough for the fireball to show up better, but it looks like I'll have to actually go out in the dark and probbably set up either a high speed camera of some kind or a slow exposure small aperature still camera.

vinny_land
01-21-2008, 9:16 PM
can you post more pictures of it completed....especially where you put the muzzle brake

Spiggy
01-21-2008, 9:20 PM
Let me know when you plan on this trip; I want in ;)

tophatjones
01-21-2008, 10:15 PM
Have you used it in the name of etiquette yet? ;)

AJAX22
01-22-2008, 5:24 AM
I have yet to use it at a public range, so no it has not been used as an abject lesson in manners.

I'll see what I can set up as far as a range day where calgunners can come try it out. (between the FBP16 and my crusty new 1991A1 there have been alot of requests to try the toys out)

tankerman
01-22-2008, 6:06 AM
I posted about doing a similar thing with my ported 454 when some a--hole sets up next to me and my 4 year old while I am trying to teach him how to shoot and starts ejecting hot brass all over us despite being asked nicely to stop.

I was chastized by a couple popular members and a moderator or two. Theses same members have conveniently decided to stay away from your thread. Absolutely amazing.

Well good for you, I appreciate when folks stand up for themselves and sometime that means giving some a--hole at the range a taste of his own medicine



This way, when I'm shooting my little .22 target rifles and some jerk sets up next to me, takes a step back from the firing line and opens up with his .500 S&W revolver, I can simply put my target rifle away, pull the bite-sized 91/30 out of the rack, and teach them a brief (but effective) lesson in range ettiquite.

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u115/Ratduster77/DCP_0425.jpg

***Edit***

Videos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0httWdyMTAI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYrQ3Lz56vg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wAXv5Q3cmM

AJAX22
04-25-2008, 4:30 PM
I was playing with this today... so I thought I'd bump the thread a little for the newguys

RedDawn
04-25-2008, 4:37 PM
Sweet, thanks for sharing.:D

knucklehead 61
06-11-2008, 10:14 PM
i need some measurements for my chopped m-44 project. how short of barrel can i legally have? will the brake add or subtract the fireball / blast / fun factor? can i cut the stock a bit without making this totally illegal? what is the minimum length it will need to be? these look like a ton of cheap fun & a great way to annoy a holes at the range! :p

slick_711
06-11-2008, 10:19 PM
i need some measurements for my chopped m-44 project. how short of barrel can i legally have? will the brake add or subtract the fireball / blast / fun factor? can i cut the stock a bit without making this totally illegal? what is the minimum length it will need to be? these look like a ton of cheap fun & a great way to annoy a holes at the range! :p

16" barrel length minimum (I'd suggest you go slightly longer (~16.25" should do) to be safe). The flash hider/muzzle brake is factored into the barrel length only if it is permanently attached. Minimum overall length of 30".

sloguy
06-11-2008, 10:22 PM
16" barrel length minimum (I'd suggest you go slightly longer (~16.25" should do) to be safe). The flash hider/muzzle brake is factored into the barrel length only if it is permanently attached. Minimum overall length of 30".

i thought 30 inch was only for semi-auto? i admit im not sure about this, but i thought oal was 28 ( is it 26) for bolt actions.

slick_711
06-11-2008, 10:32 PM
i thought 30 inch was only for semi-auto? i admit im not sure about this, but i thought oal was 28 ( is it 26) for bolt actions.

Oh, I don't know off the top of my head. The federal minimum OAL is 26". I'm not sure if the CA 30" minimum is semi only or all rifles. It would make sense that it would be part of the AW law and thus not apply to bolt guns. I don't care to look it up at the moment.

ETA: I lied, I did care to look it up... it's 12276.1.(3) that specifies semiauto under 30" is an AW. So unless there is similar code elsewhere that I'm not aware of, you are correct, bolt action minimum OAL would be the federal 26" standard.

Ford8N
06-12-2008, 5:15 AM
M44 are on sale this week for $99.


http://big5sportinggoods.shoplocal.com/big5/Default.aspx?action=browsepagedetail&storeid=2503801&rapid=552618&listingid=-2091463086&pretailerid=-98565

AJAX22
06-18-2008, 10:19 PM
An OAL length of 26 inches would make this gun a pistol grip only build ;)

Its a bit longer than is nececary, but the stock makes it comfortable.

Fate
06-19-2008, 10:10 AM
Just watched the videos...clean your chamber! You've got "sticky bolt syndrome."

battlehatch
06-19-2008, 10:53 AM
Where can I get this done to my M44? I have access to a lathe and I am very familiar with using it, but I have no idea how I would chuck that thing up...

AJAX22
06-19-2008, 10:59 AM
On a mosin, the inside of the receiver is cylindrical and parrallel to the bore, you can turn a piece of stock to be a slip/press fit, then just use one of those three pronged circle thingys with the ball berrings to support the work (I can't remember what the name is)

Or... you can be REALLY nice to Randal over at AR15barrels.com and you might be able to get him to do it for you. (he did mine but he really didn't want to do any more... but if you threw enough cash at him he might.. its worth a try)

The M44 is actually a bit harder to do than the 9130 because of the junk on the barrel (bayonette etc. the 91/30 is a very straight forward project.

AJAX22
06-19-2008, 11:00 AM
Just watched the videos...clean your chamber! You've got "sticky bolt syndrome."

Steel cased ammo.... It was cheap (i.e. Free cause spiggy gave me a box to try out)

All it really needs is for some people to shoot it for me to properly break it in ;)

AJAX22
06-19-2008, 1:42 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v428/slo_bikes/fbp16comparison.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v428/slo_bikes/fbp16detail.jpg

These pics get lost in the middle of this thread, so here they are again ;)

battlehatch
06-20-2008, 2:07 PM
Ok, I spoke with a friend of mine who owns a machine shop. He says that chucking up the receiver using a press/slip fit insert and a "live center" to stabilize it, is no problem. I am trying to track down a place that sells the AMD-65 brake... anyone have any suggestions?

Knauga
06-20-2008, 2:37 PM
This is really all you need to see ;)

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n276/knauga/nagant.jpg

battlehatch
06-20-2008, 6:06 PM
Ordered the brake... Sorry to be a total copycat, but that thing is just way too cool. I can't really think of anything better to do with the big 5 hog leg sitting in my safe. I figure I'll get the stock, fit it, then have the whole thing duracoated some rediculous color.

AJAX22
06-30-2008, 8:40 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmX_MHwKWac

new video of sloguy with the FBP16 at the range with some other guy...

ar15barrels
06-30-2008, 9:00 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmX_MHwKWac

new video of sloguy with the FBP16 at the range with some other guy...

Did Sloguy make one like yours or is that your rifle that I shortened?

sloguy
06-30-2008, 9:09 PM
Did Sloguy make one like yours or is that your rifle that I shortened?

its the one.
ajax is leaving for school soon. the mosin is over 50 years old so he face-to face sold it to me for a dollar and when he comes home ill face to face it back to him for a dollar.

N_S
06-30-2008, 11:02 PM
Why did you gut a 91/30 instead of an M44?

MrTuffPaws
06-30-2008, 11:54 PM
Why did you gut a 91/30 instead of an M44?

That's what I was thinking :confused:

knucklehead 61
07-01-2008, 6:08 AM
Why did you gut a 91/30 instead of an M44?

my guess is that is what ajax had laying around. they are the same price at most stores (around $70 - $90) and nearly the same design. i am using a 44 as my cut down flame thrower cause thats what i found a deal on. the 91/30 has a little different barrel design that would perhaps be better to modify, but only slightly. cut, machine, shoot, then laugh at the fun results!

AJAX22
07-01-2008, 11:39 AM
Heh.... I did it out of a 91/30 because I had a few extra's ;)

I bought out the entire inventory of a firearm dismanteler back in kentucky (I love the C&R licence), the wife nearly killed me when the crates started showing up but the only way I could get the rare ones that I wanted was to buy them all..

I think I wound up with something like 72 of them (not counting the ones I already had kicking around)

I tend to take things to extremes... and, well.... some things look better on paper than they do when they take up your entire livingroom.

I'm glad I did it though, I wouldn't have been able to get some of the really rare collectable 91/30's that I have if I hadn't jumped on the deal.

TMC
07-01-2008, 12:36 PM
Cool project thanks for sharing. I've had a couple of M44's around here for years, now I know what to do with one.

Now for some thread drift.

Wouldn't this be a bolt action pistol and not a SBR? short mosin (http://64.151.69.37/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=6652&d=1198371276) If it is a SBR why? it doesn't have a stock. Seems more like an XP100 to me. Just curious

ar15barrels
07-01-2008, 1:21 PM
Wouldn't this be a bolt action pistol and not a SBR? short mosin (http://64.151.69.37/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=6652&d=1198371276) If it is a SBR why? it doesn't have a stock. Seems more like an XP100 to me. Just curious

The one in this thread has both a shoulder stock and a 16" barrel.
It's just as short as possible.

The one you linked to has a barrel shorter than 16" so it's an SBR with a stock or an AOW without the stock.

TMC
07-01-2008, 1:28 PM
The one in this thread has both a shoulder stock and a 16" barrel.
It's just as short as possible.

The one you linked to has a barrel shorter than 16" so it's an SBR with a stock or an AOW without the stock.

I understand the barrel shorter than 16" and a shoulder stock is an SBR but with a pistol grip only isn't it a pistol?

Or is it and AOW because it was originally a rifle?

ar15barrels
07-01-2008, 1:37 PM
is it and AOW because it was originally a rifle?

Yes.

Rifles can never become pistols.

TMC
07-01-2008, 1:42 PM
Thanks Randall

Stupid law but then again, when do most of the gun laws make sense?

N_S
07-02-2008, 10:54 AM
Heh.... I did it out of a 91/30 because I had a few extra's ;)

I bought out the entire inventory of a firearm dismanteler back in kentucky (I love the C&R licence), the wife nearly killed me when the crates started showing up but the only way I could get the rare ones that I wanted was to buy them all..

I think I wound up with something like 72 of them (not counting the ones I already had kicking around)

I tend to take things to extremes... and, well.... some things look better on paper than they do when they take up your entire livingroom.

I'm glad I did it though, I wouldn't have been able to get some of the really rare collectable 91/30's that I have if I hadn't jumped on the deal.

If you have so many on your hands I'll gladly ease your burden a little if you give me one of those 91/30s :D

ke6guj
07-02-2008, 11:27 AM
TMC, minor point of clarification. That pic you linked to would be an SBR since it was cut down from a rifle to less than 16"barrel/26"OAL. Pistol grip only or with a stock, it doesn't matter since the original configuration was as a rifle. It would not be an AOW if in a pistol config, because SBR would apply before AOW.

Now, if you had a virgin receiver that had never been assembled as a rifle, it could be built up legally as a pistol. That is how they do the XP100 legally as a pistol. Now, if you put a forward vertical grip on it, it would now be an AOW.

FOr shotguns, its a little different. AOW status can be triggered by "smooth-bore pistol" definition in which a factory pistol-grip-only shotgun becomes an AOW by cutting the barrel down to less than 18". Take a regular stocked shotgun, put a PG on it and cut it down and it is an SBS. It is not an AOW, because it started life as a "shotgun", even though the AOW and SBS may look exactly the same. The PGO shotgun with an 18" barrel is not federally definited as a "shotgun", merely a "fiream", so when cutting it down, it is not a shotgun that was cut down to less than 18"/26".

GuyW
07-02-2008, 12:07 PM
I wonder how badly the muzzle velocity is reduced?

A short rifle can be very kool for brushy deer hunting...

sloguy
07-02-2008, 1:37 PM
doesnt seem to be reduced much at all. if someone wants to bring a cronograph to slosa this saturday we can try it.

AJAX22
07-09-2008, 8:28 PM
Just for the record, I'm not looking to sell the rifle (I already sold it to sloguy for $1 so he can have it while I'm out of state)

I'm more than willing to point you guys in the right direction to build your own, but I made this one because I really wanted it (its not exactly a cheap project when you factor in all the custom stuff)

It's a ton of fun, and I really enjoy the heck out of it (and so does everyone else it appears)

AJAX22
10-28-2008, 1:53 PM
Bump because this keeps coming up with new guys ;)

sloguy
10-28-2008, 9:42 PM
another bump, cause the rifle will be out at my birthday range trip on monday nov 3rd.

come to slosa rifle/pistol range between noon and 4pm and try it.

AJAX22
10-29-2008, 5:37 PM
another bump, cause the rifle will be out at my birthday range trip on monday nov 3rd.

come to slosa rifle/pistol range between noon and 4pm and try it.

Get some Footage ;)

pullnshoot25
10-30-2008, 12:53 PM
That is so rad.

brokestudent12
11-25-2008, 3:52 PM
Bump because this keeps coming up with new guys ;)

it did again

AJAX22
12-11-2008, 4:28 PM
Any of you guys take sloguy up on his offer to let y'all play with it?

It's louder than 10lbs of tannerite detonating.... and lots of fun.

Ford8N
12-11-2008, 8:35 PM
It has quite a concussion.:43:;)

battlehatch
01-12-2009, 10:09 AM
I'm working on mine today!

EBWhite
01-12-2009, 4:32 PM
so how many inches did you cut off?

battlehatch
01-12-2009, 4:48 PM
I measured 16 1/2" from the bolt face to the cut using a dowel. Unfortunately, he wasn't able to get it chucked up securely in the lathe. He is taking to to his other shop where they have more versatile machining equipment. Anyone know what the thread pitch of those AMD65 brakes are? He said it was an odd thread pitch... Either way, I will probably get it back sometime later this week. I still need to order the stock when I get some money.

AJAX22
01-12-2009, 7:41 PM
I measured 16 1/2" from the bolt face to the cut using a dowel. Unfortunately, he wasn't able to get it chucked up securely in the lathe. He is taking to to his other shop where they have more versatile machining equipment. Anyone know what the thread pitch of those AMD65 brakes are? He said it was an odd thread pitch... Either way, I will probably get it back sometime later this week. I still need to order the stock when I get some money.

14mm negative (standard AK thread)

Ford8N
06-13-2009, 5:09 PM
I'm still debating how to mount the sights if I do this project. AJAX, did you ever get around to putting sights on that cannon? I tried it one time and was quite surprised at the lack of recoil.

AJAX22
06-13-2009, 6:11 PM
I'm still debating how to mount the sights if I do this project. AJAX, did you ever get around to putting sights on that cannon? I tried it one time and was quite surprised at the lack of recoil.

I determined that a set of 870 ghost ring sites would fit on the receiver/brake (the curvature is just about perfect)... but never got around to purchasing/mounting them.

I also thought about mounting an AR15 front site post on the brake, but didn't think that would be rugged enough for how hard I tend to use field guns.

knucklehead 61
06-17-2009, 5:10 PM
i still have not put sights on mine yet either.
i bored out the muzzle brake to a press fit & tack welded in to the barrel.

AJAX22
07-09-2009, 5:12 AM
i still have not put sights on mine yet either.
i bored out the muzzle brake to a press fit & tack welded in to the barrel.

How did you handle the alignment for the ports? that method sounds like it would be quite a bit simpler than dealing with timing the brake.

knucklehead 61
07-10-2009, 3:38 PM
i eyeballed it with a steel rod passing horizontally through the port to index it. it turned out fine. i have a clausing 13 x 40 lathe in my home shop but the receiver was too big to fit in my chuck, so i had to manually face off the end of the barrel.

How did you handle the alignment for the ports? that method sounds like it would be quite a bit simpler than dealing with timing the brake.

AJAX22
07-14-2009, 7:24 PM
i eyeballed it with a steel rod passing horizontally through the port to index it. it turned out fine. i have a clausing 13 x 40 lathe in my home shop but the receiver was too big to fit in my chuck, so i had to manually face off the end of the barrel.

dang, that sounds very straightforward and a lot simpler than how mine was done...... I bet a lot of guys would love to pay you to perform that mod to their rifles.

knucklehead 61
07-15-2009, 5:33 PM
i hadn't thought of that. :confused:
yup, i can cut, grind, sand, turn, mill, & weld lots of stuff in my home shop.:p
if anyone needs this type of work done shoot me a pm...


dang, that sounds very straightforward and a lot simpler than how mine was done...... I bet a lot of guys would love to pay you to perform that mod to their rifles.

AJAX22
07-23-2009, 7:36 PM
Was just thinking about this.... gonna have to play with her when i make it back to CA.

Of all the crazy oddball stuff I've done, this is probably the most fun to actually drag out into the field.

randyo
08-08-2009, 1:29 PM
I owned a Persian Mauser "Camel Carbine" a few years ago. Beatifully made gun, but shooting a milsurp 7.92x57 out of that short barrel was a thing to behold. The muzzle flash was awesome even in the daylight. Not to mention the WTF!!!! from benches all around. I finally sold it after three range sessions. It was fun, but not that practical. I was lucky to group 12" at 100 yd - probably due to "flinch factor"


http://www.pipeline.com/~rockdog/Persian1949.jpg

AJAX22
08-10-2009, 12:41 PM
With mine all the flash goes out sideways... it is Not much fun to stand next to, but from the shooter's perspective it is quite nice.

Definitely a 'range etiquette enforcement device'

AJAX22
09-13-2010, 8:02 PM
Very cool this came up again... I think I found the perfect stock for it... just need to get one made ;)

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=337701