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USMC0811
12-15-2007, 8:57 PM
I have a buddy who currently moved in a free state that wants to sell me one of his rifles that he purchased there. He's offering me a good deal but I wanted to verify some if any legal issues. At first I thought this might just be an out of state transfer type of thing. But I realized he technically is still a California resident, (he just recently moved) He still owns his house in CA, his vehicle is also currently registered to CA and his reserve station is also in CA.

So if i purchase his rifle can this be a Private party transfer ?

SJshooter
12-15-2007, 9:00 PM
Nope.

If was still truly a California resident, he wouldn't be able to buy the gun himself and bring it in to California. So he can't have it both ways and say "Well, I'm out of state to buy the gun but not out of state to transfer the gun."

GI_JOE
12-15-2007, 9:01 PM
I would provide some additional information: What type of rifle are you trying to PPT? If it's an AR15, AK47, etc type rifle, what is the make, model?

USMC0811
12-15-2007, 9:27 PM
its an HK USC. I had all the intentions on purchasing a RADD lock before i purchased it. I guess i should try and ask some of the local FFL's if this is possible. So even though he's worked & lived and paid taxes for most of year here in CA he is no longer a resident ?

SJshooter
12-15-2007, 10:36 PM
The point is that if he is a CA resident and can legally buy and import the gun to CA, then you as a CA resident can legally buy and import the gun, too - you don't need him as a middleman.

But it sounds like he was able to buy the gun based on the fact that he has moved to a place where that gun is available, but now he wants to grandfather in his residency. Under this rule, I could just go out of state and bring any gun back in that I wanted, since I am still a resident.

Sorry.

tenpercentfirearms
12-16-2007, 7:01 AM
If two guys walked into my shop, both with California IDs and both said they were California residents, I would treat the transaction as a PPT. If one of them said they weren't a California resident and/or didn't have a CA ID, then I couldn't do a PPT.

USMC0811
12-16-2007, 4:32 PM
If two guys walked into my shop, both with California IDs and both said they were California residents, I would treat the transaction as a PPT. If one of them said they weren't a California resident and/or didn't have a CA ID, then I couldn't do a PPT.

thank you for your response, I know this is possible like you just mentioned. I just don't want to get any FFL's in trouble. I ask this question because I like supporting my local FFL's and various vendors on this website.

Sgt Raven
12-16-2007, 4:40 PM
Nope.

If was still truly a California resident, he wouldn't be able to buy the gun himself and bring it in to California. So he can't have it both ways and say "Well, I'm out of state to buy the gun but not out of state to transfer the gun."


Maybe, maybe not, when I was stationed at Ft. Myer, Va I had a Ca DL but was able to buy firearms there with my .mil ID card and orders stationing me there. But my home of record was still Ca and I was still a Ca resident.

SJshooter
12-16-2007, 7:30 PM
If two guys walked into my shop, both with California IDs and both said they were California residents, I would treat the transaction as a PPT. If one of them said they weren't a California resident and/or didn't have a CA ID, then I couldn't do a PPT.

So, just curious, what is to stop me from driving to Texas, buying a ton of non-roster guns, then coming back to California and doing a bunch of PPTs to my California buddies? Would the DROS process catch this? Because it sounds basically like what the original poster's friend wants to do.

Hunter
12-16-2007, 7:32 PM
Maybe, maybe not, when I was stationed at Ft. Myer, Va I had a Ca DL but was able to buy firearms there with my .mil ID card and orders stationing me there. But my home of record was still Ca and I was still a Ca resident.

Correct.


A member of the Armed Forces on active duty is a resident of the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located. If a member of the Armed Forces maintains a home in one State and the memberís permanent duty station is in a nearby State, the member may purchase a firearm in either the State where the duty station is located or the State where the home is maintained.

Hunter
12-16-2007, 7:35 PM
So, just curious, what is to stop me from driving to Texas, buying a ton of non-roster guns, then coming back to California and doing a bunch of PPTs to my California buddies? Would the DROS process catch this? Because it sounds basically like what the original poster's friend wants to do.

If you can legally buy these guns in Texas, then there is no problem to bringing them back to CA. The issue is can you legally buy the guns in TX as a CA resident only...afraid not unless you are in the military and stationed there with your home in CA.

SJshooter
12-16-2007, 7:48 PM
If you can legally buy these guns in Texas, then there is no problem to bringing them back to CA. The issue is can you legally buy the guns in TX as a CA resident only...afraid not unless you are in the military and stationed there with your home in CA.

So, then the question is: Can you legally have residences in two states - claim you are a TX resident to buy then gun and then later claim you are a CA resident to transfer the gun. Sorry, but sounds fishy to me.

And how is the original poster's friend going to tell California he came into possession of the gun? You mean he can just show up at an FFL with a non-roster, non-registered gun and transfer it?

TonyM
12-16-2007, 8:05 PM
its an HK USC. I had all the intentions on purchasing a RADD lock before i purchased it. I guess i should try and ask some of the local FFL's if this is possible. So even though he's worked & lived and paid taxes for most of year here in CA he is no longer a resident ?

Unless I'm missing something here, PPT or not, it really doesn't really matter on a rifle. Have him ship you the lower receiver, bolt, stock, magazine and spring. Have him ship your FFL the upper receiver/Barrel assembly. The upper on the USC is the controlled part.

All I had shipped to my FFL was the upper receiver.

Hunter
12-16-2007, 10:01 PM
So, then the question is: Can you legally have residences in two states - claim you are a TX resident to buy then gun and then later claim you are a CA resident to transfer the gun. Sorry, but sounds fishy to me.....


Yes, one can have multiple residence. I just posted the exemption for active military, so that is one. Also the poster's friend is military per the first post.

However, even non military can have multiple residences. Do youself a favor and do a search on this topic. There is a recent thread posted in the last few days on this and there are dozens in the archives. No reason for repeating it all again here.

tenpercentfirearms
12-17-2007, 6:07 AM
So, just curious, what is to stop me from driving to Texas, buying a ton of non-roster guns, then coming back to California and doing a bunch of PPTs to my California buddies? Would the DROS process catch this? Because it sounds basically like what the original poster's friend wants to do.

Probably the main thing stopping you from buying a ton of non-roster guns is you might not meet the residency requirements to buy handguns in Texas. So you might have a hard time buying handguns there.

The next thing that might stop you is when you start PPTing 2000 (a ton) handguns in CA, it might raise some flags and someone might knock on your door asking where you got these guns. Your answer of, "I bought them in Texas and PPTed them here" is probably going to end up in some sort of charges brought up against you.

I am not sure how dual residency works (if there is such a thing), but I do know it is illegal for someone who is buying guns out of state to claim they are still a CA resident and PPTing them here. I just know as an FFL if two customers came in and both claimed they were CA residents and had CA driver's licenses, I would process the PPT. That doesn't mean it isn't illegal and that doesn't mean the DOJ can't figure out you have a DL and a house payment in another state, but no house payment here. I just wouldn't know at the time of purchase unless someone mentioned it to me and then I would have to say no.

Personally there is nothing I do worth breaking the law over, but I am not you. I can live without non-rostered guns and it wouldn't be worth it to me if I lived out of state to try and illegally sell a buddy a non-rostered gun, no matter how much he/she paid me. I would rather invest some money or work a little harder.