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View Full Version : Security "expert": Pepper spray can take down 5-10 men at a time


Creeping Incrementalism
12-14-2007, 8:08 PM
A personal security "expert" (Robert Siciliano -- he seems to get a lot of media appearances) says using a deadly weapon is a bad idea, and that he recommends pepper spray. He says it can take down 5-10 men at a time, at 2 minutes and 30 seconds into the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhBA17l_cxQ
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/pdd/robert siciliano the schmuck.JPG

RideIcon
12-14-2007, 8:22 PM
I eat blairs 6am, some of the hottest stuff on the planet, I think im going to be in that 30% of people who are not so much affected by anything less than 10,000 btu pepper spray...


10 people at once, HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA maybe school children!!

SJshooter
12-14-2007, 8:24 PM
That is a pretty old clip because I've seen this blowhard on shows before and he looks a lot older/heavier now than in this one.

CavTrooper
12-14-2007, 8:28 PM
Yeah, except for that ONE guy that shoots you dead after you tried to spray him... This guy is a tool.

DedEye
12-14-2007, 8:29 PM
I want to hit him with pepper spray :mad:.

boogak
12-14-2007, 8:47 PM
I want to hit him with pepper spray :mad:.

+100000000000000000000

mm1
12-14-2007, 9:00 PM
No thank you Mister! He looks like a slimball, used car salesman.

Mac
12-14-2007, 9:09 PM
funny

dasmi
12-14-2007, 9:13 PM
That guy is going to get some people killed.

Army
12-14-2007, 10:06 PM
Which is no consolaton to the gent that was recently killed AFTER he sprayed his attacker.

tyrist
12-14-2007, 10:47 PM
First off the guy looks like a used car salesman.

Pepper spray is effective if the attacker is A) not immune and I have seen many who are B) not under the influence of a drug/alcohol grants immunity and C) not me, I have been sprayed it hurts, I dont fall down, I am not incapacitated and I am even more pissed off

M. Sage
12-15-2007, 4:49 AM
"Comment pending approval." :rolleyes:

This guy is full of crap. Does he work for Brady???

Change the system: Castle! Don't advocate disarming the victims and giving them half-***ed tools that might not work.

FEDUPWBS
12-15-2007, 6:52 AM
This guy is a tool.

+1
Ive been hit w/ the hottest stuff available and not even coughed. Also been in a large area where the not so strong has been discharged and gagged and coughed and had to leave. Nothing else, its results are inconsistent.
All depends on the situation. Adrenaline is a MFer and bad guys are full of it. Only a large bullet is guaranteed (almost) to stop the threat if someone is trying to kill you.
Save the OC for the cats pissing on your front door.

Max-the-Silent
12-15-2007, 7:00 AM
OC is a good tool to use when you don't need to escalate your force use.

It's not a substitute for a firearm.

This "expert" is confusing his situations and force responses.

rg_1111@yahoo.com
12-15-2007, 7:49 AM
This guy is a clown. Like others have said he's going to get somebody Killed.
I have been sprayed in a class and sure it burns but dont put you down.

M. Sage
12-15-2007, 11:12 AM
Only a large bullet is guaranteed (almost) to stop the threat if someone is trying to kill you.

Three or four is almost guaranteed to do the job. :cool:

FinalBoss
12-15-2007, 3:07 PM
That guy is awesome!!

jjperl
12-15-2007, 4:45 PM
All I have to say is... :rofl2:

leelaw
12-15-2007, 4:56 PM
This is such a joke. CAN pepper spray AFFECT ten people? Oh yeah, it could.

Do you bring pepper spray to a deadly force situation? Do you bring a knife to a gun fight?

This guy is like the dolts who think police should use a taser if someone pulls a gun on them. OR who say "just shoot them in the leg/shoot the gun out of their hands/etc.!":rolleyes:

"You're a victim, but guess what, I just want you to be a better target"

I feel sick listening to this guy. He says he is a victim advocate, but all I'm hearing from him is that he wants victims to not use the most effective tools to stop an attack.

leelaw
12-15-2007, 5:02 PM
This guy is a clown. Like others have said he's going to get somebody Killed.
I have been sprayed in a class and sure it burns but dont put you down.

No way, it's completely effective. Look how it completely incapacitates this soldier in training. http://youtube.com/watch?v=pJf_55A1AnI

CavTrooper
12-15-2007, 5:46 PM
No way, it's completely effective. Look how it completely incapacitates this soldier in training. http://youtube.com/watch?v=pJf_55A1AnI

BWHAHAHAHA! That was some funny stuff! Me thinks that was a NG unit, not that it matters, but that was good for a laugh. Notice the practice dummy holders all wearing towels on thier heads.... LOL.

Oh yeah, OC works good!:rolleyes:

M. Sage
12-15-2007, 7:54 PM
No way, it's completely effective. Look how it completely incapacitates this soldier in training. http://youtube.com/watch?v=pJf_55A1AnI

I like how he seems angry at the end.

LAHeat
12-15-2007, 9:24 PM
First off the guy looks like a used car salesman.

Pepper spray is effective if the attacker is A) not immune and I have seen many who are B) not under the influence of a drug/alcohol grants immunity and C) not me, I have been sprayed it hurts, I dont fall down, I am not incapacitated and I am even more pissed off

Ditto. A personal security "expert" Robert Siciliano sounds like an idiot. Pepper Spray is always effective against those that use it :) He must have stock in one of the companies. Based on his stupid comments - he is no security expert, cause a true expert would not make such a stupid inane statement.

LECTRIKHED
12-15-2007, 10:30 PM
I carry pepper spray because I'm not allowed to carry a gun. Luckily I know that it is not the same. I've seen crazy people and drug addicts sprayed on cops. Nothing happens to them.

Anyways, it is more intended for the 15 yo idiot who randomly tries to pick a fight with me. A nice spritz of pepper spray will solve the problem. It also works well on dogs. I've been chased by dogs before and wish that I had it then.

I figure that if I need to use it. I'll use it quickly and get my *** out of there. It is more of a method of buying time than defense. I'm also lazy and don't want to exert the energy for a physical fight. I figure pepper spray is better than nothing.

heretosaveafewlives
12-16-2007, 6:57 AM
Gents,
Appreciate the colorful commentary.

I was called to the show in response to a half dozen victims of crime who killed their attackers with guns or knives. Some of the attackers did not have weapons. All of the victims were either facing jail time or in jail. It was the victims word against a deadmans. The question the producers asked was "What could the victims have done different so they didnt end up with criminal convictions?" I said using non-lethal may have prevented the death of the attacker. Boom, I was on the show.

My job is to provide people with options regarding their personal security. Is a pepper spray and option? Yes. Would I bring it to a gun fight? No. Will it take down 10 men? Sometimes, depending on the conditions, where the person was hit, and the chemical content of the spray. Will an AK kill, sure, always? No.

Not everyone is as assertive as all of you. Not everyone has the proper training as all of you. Most people are relatively unable to respond to an attacker with or without a weapon, lethal or non-lethal.

I have no problem with a person using a gun to defend. I have a few myself. I have no problem leveling some idiot who makes an attempt at me or my family. I'm totaly pro-gun. I'm also very concerned for people who arent capable of using them and need to provide them with additional options.

You keep doing what you are doing and I'll keep doing what I'm doing. I believe we are on the same page. We fight for whats right. Robert Siciliano.

Soldier415
12-16-2007, 7:32 AM
I think im going to be in that 30% of people who are not so much affected by anything less than 10,000 btu pepper spray...


Agree. Think about it, those of you that have been/are Army or Marines, when you went through the gas chamber in basic. That room is nothing but highly concentrated CS gas. Some guys lose it when they take off their mask, others stand there calmly with a smile on thier face, and have no problem being the last one out while others are clawing for the door.

Waingro
12-16-2007, 9:10 AM
So in Brooklyn they use pepper spray instead of Tommy Guns? (I had to:D) He looks like he is from the Italian mob with his suit, slicked back hair, accent.

Every time I hear pepper spray I think wind. A girlfriend of my wives was getting attacked once and she pepper sprayed the attacker. Both her and the attack were hit because a drift hit due to a draft of wind or something. She managed to escape but was just as bad off as the attacker was, but managed to escape without harm. I don't know the full story.

JagerTroop
12-16-2007, 11:52 AM
1st
I've been sprayed a few times. It is VERY uncomfortable, but in NO WAY would it stop me if I were an attacker. If anything, it could escalate the situation. Hypothetical situation:

An attacker aproaches demanding money/car/jewelry/etc. You wip out your trusty pepperspray and go to town on him. Now the attacker is infuriated, and on top of robbing you, he beats/stabs/shoots you. When all he wanted was your property.

2nd
I'm not saying "don't defend yourself"...I'm saying don't take chances on a "well...this might work:shrug:" type counterattack. If your life is in danger, you neutralize the threat. Shoot to kill, because, don't think for one second that the person attacking you gives a rat's azz about your safety or wellbeing.

3rd
Anything I've stated here is very situation specific. I am, in no way, saying there is a standard reaction to a threat. Extreme situations can call for extreme reactions, and it is every gunowner's responsibility to know how and when to respond with force.

Eli

P.S. pepperspray is weak-as-F**k :D

jumbopanda
12-16-2007, 12:28 PM
The problem with non-lethal weapons is that they can escalate the situation if they fail to stop the attacker. I simply couldn't encourage anyone to trust their lives to something that may give false hope and/or get them killed. I know that in some cases, lethal force is not necessary, but it is extremely difficult to determine that while an attack is occuring. Making decisions in the heat of the moment is never easy. But if felt that someone was trying to inflict great harm to me inside my own house, I'd much rather have a firearm than any pepper spray or stun gun. I'm sure that for each of those people who faced criminal charges for killing their attacker, there was someone out there who was murdered by an attacker because they did not have the proper tools to defend themselves.

cartman
12-16-2007, 5:27 PM
I don't know the legalities of this so I'm not telling anyone to do it. But Formaldehyde will put someone down when sprayed. Think of a burning pain so severe that you feel like ripping your skin off, eyes swollen and watering so bad you can't see. But like I said I don't how legal that is in this state. Probaly illegal do to its effectiveness. I'm waiting for the powers that be start suggesting we carry nerf bats so we won't hurt the poor assaliant.

LECTRIKHED
12-16-2007, 6:20 PM
Gents,
Appreciate the colorful commentary.

I was called to the show in response to a half dozen victims of crime who killed their attackers with guns or knives. Some of the attackers did not have weapons. All of the victims were either facing jail time or in jail. It was the victims word against a deadmans. The question the producers asked was "What could the victims have done different so they didnt end up with criminal convictions?" I said using non-lethal may have prevented the death of the attacker. Boom, I was on the show.

My job is to provide people with options regarding their personal security. Is a pepper spray and option? Yes. Would I bring it to a gun fight? No. Will it take down 10 men? Sometimes, depending on the conditions, where the person was hit, and the chemical content of the spray. Will an AK kill, sure, always? No.

Not everyone is as assertive as all of you. Not everyone has the proper training as all of you. Most people are relatively unable to respond to an attacker with or without a weapon, lethal or non-lethal.

I have no problem with a person using a gun to defend. I have a few myself. I have no problem leveling some idiot who makes an attempt at me or my family. I'm totaly pro-gun. I'm also very concerned for people who arent capable of using them and need to provide them with additional options.

You keep doing what you are doing and I'll keep doing what I'm doing. I believe we are on the same page. We fight for whats right. Robert Siciliano.

Wow, I appreciate you dropping by here. It is rare that those who we've ridiculed will come by and stand up. I agree 100% with what you are saying. Cameras can do a hell of a job making people's message seem different from what it may be.

I carry pepper spray everyday. Yes I would rather carry a gun, but I respect the law. For women and men who are afraid of guns, and that is a large amount of people pepper spray is better than nothing.

One of my coworkers recently moved into a house alone. I tried to attempt to convince her to buy a gun. She refused, so I bought her pepper spray which she is happy with.

Pepper spray is no where near as effective as a gun. But I would rather carry it than have nothing.

Pepper spray can be invaluable when idiots try and randomly pick fights with you. It happens. They'll be just drunk or idiots. They don't even want your wallet, just a fight. Well pepper spray can solve that 80% of the time.

It also works well in situations where force is required to defend yourself but deadly force is unnecessary. There's a reason cops carry it.

There is nothing more insulting than being pepper sprayed by a man. Picture punk looking guy talking to his friends afterwards:
Punk 1: I saw this idiot wearing a suit and I spit at him.
Punk 2: Awesome man. I hope you kicked his ***.
Punk 1: I told him I was going to stomp his face in.
Punk 2: Tell me you broke that business man.
Punk 1: I swung at him and missed.
Punk 2: Well what happened?
Punk 1: That sissy pepper sprayed me. I cried for half an hour and he walked away.

Pepper spray is not a gun but it is better than nothing. It has its place.

mooster
12-16-2007, 6:42 PM
I don't know the legalities of this so I'm not telling anyone to do it. But Formaldehyde will put someone down when sprayed. Think of a burning pain so severe that you feel like ripping your skin off, eyes swollen and watering so bad you can't see. But like I said I don't how legal that is in this state. Probaly illegal do to its effectiveness.

I'm not a lawyer but I'm fairly certain that something like formaldehyde (or any caustic/carcinogenic/poisonous substance) would have criminal and civil repercussions in most cases.

In respect of this discussion, these chemicals would not be considered "non-lethal". "Non-lethal" is actually a military term and the aforementioned chemical would violate DoD 3000.3's description of such.
"...Weapons that are explicitly designed and primarily employed so as to incapacitate personnel or materiel, while minimizing fatalities, permanent injury to personnel, and undesired damage to property and the environment."

5968
12-16-2007, 7:53 PM
What a joke. Pepper spray is all but useless when dealing with a determined attacker or someone on drugs. Chances are the spray will cause almost as much discomfort to you as the attacker. Pepper spray is far from reliable when dealing with a life or death situation. People can build tolerance to it, and some it just doesn't bother at all. I have heard that it is useless against as much as 30% of the population. When it comes to my life, I want a little better then a 70% chance.

DANGERCLOSE
12-16-2007, 9:05 PM
how about the recent death of a police officer after spraying the perp with oc. i dont remember the names off hand, but the perp was the brother of some skiier.

just because a person is a 'security consultant' because they did site, static, or internet security by no means gives him the knowledge in self-defense or personal security. what is his background with no law enforcement, military, or even personal protection experience. nothing more than a talking head.

victims sometimes do get 'jailed' or 'charged' with crimes like ca pc 186, but they will release on their OR. it does not criminalize the victim. ideas like this sensationalize the victim mentality or pass on their liberal views like shooting the gun out of their hand, shooting them in the leg, spraying them with oc.

i can snort cs gas like nothing, helps clean out my sinuses. oc can make me pause a second until i can open one eye again. i can still swing, club, and shoot my way out. millions of times a year, people 'display or present' a firearm to prevent crimes. sound of a shotgun racking will deter most thugs in their tracks.

keep fooling the liberals and little old ladies that dont have .38 specials. so you know karate / kick boxing, heck maybe even tai-bo. none of that helps in a life threatening situation.

fighting for your life is fighting. non-lethal force does not apply. gunfighting, knife fighting, heck just plain ol fighting will work when matched with the equal or lesser threat.

does less-lethal force have their applications. they sure as hell do for law enforcement and some military missions. some people can maybe only carry oc, maybe it will work for them, but they should eventually get a firearm for protection. people can be trained in using the evil weapons. sarcasm there.

now time for another beer.

lazuris
12-17-2007, 9:02 AM
Most surveys say that "hugging it out" resolves 98% of all gang attacks. So when attacked "hug it out"

outersquare
12-19-2007, 7:52 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NF-BtESLEsU

you see the incident about 6 minutes into the video.

after being showered in pepper spray, the driver still shoots the officer and drives off.

ibanezfoo
12-20-2007, 8:55 AM
That guy looks like a cheezy mafia movie hitman.

-Bryan

ohsmily
12-20-2007, 9:38 AM
Wow, it is amazing how many people on this forum can snort pepper spray or get sprayed and not have it bother them. Bunch of uber-men tough guys I guess. Either that or these are a bunch of keyboard commandos who have never actually been directly sprayed before.

1911su16b870
12-20-2007, 9:43 AM
I have been sprayed directly into my eyes/nose/mouth and I will fight through it.

Soldier415
12-20-2007, 9:43 AM
Wow, it is amazing how many people on this forum can snort pepper spray or get sprayed and not have it bother them. Bunch uber-men tough guys I guess. Either that or these are a bunch of keyboard commandos who have never actually been directly sprayed before.

I have. Had to in order to be certified to carry it and use it as a National Guardsman.

DANGERCLOSE
12-21-2007, 12:30 AM
been hit with stream, cone, and plenty of pepperballs all within 10 years on the job. it does burn my nose and throat a bit, but i can keep my eyes open without holding them. do i get blapharospasm, yes, but i can fight to keep my eyes open a crack so that i can see a bit. when i have been exposed to oc, i do get one hell of a headache.

never been a keyboard commando type.

as for cs, i have been hit with it plenty of times in the 6 years in usmc infantry. i remember in 29 palms when an f18 dropped a whole bunch of silver balls of smoking cs, not fun. i tear and snot a little, and thats it. at the police academy in the chamber i got a good wiff of it, walked out in the fresh air and cleared right up. i will take cs/cn anyday in comparison to oc. oc spay sucks alot.

if its any consolation, i dont get poison oak/ivy either. no problems what so ever, i guess i am weird like that.

JagerTroop
12-22-2007, 12:14 PM
Wow, it is amazing how many people on this forum can snort pepper spray or get sprayed and not have it bother them. Bunch of uber-men tough guys I guess. Either that or these are a bunch of keyboard commandos who have never actually been directly sprayed before.

Come on smily, are you telling me that pepperspray would put you on the ground? I'm not saying that it doesn't bother me, it just isn't enough to stop, or even significantly, slow me down. I would say, it is amazing how many people on this forum believe that pepperspray is a reasonable method of self defense. As far as the keyboard commandos?... Sorry, you'll just have to sift through the BS like everyone else. :)

ColdSteel
12-22-2007, 3:52 PM
No thank you Mister! He looks like a slimball, used car salesman.

Did someone say Mitt Romney?

Matt C
12-22-2007, 4:16 PM
What about a person with asthma? Too bad for them, they can't defend themselves?



as for cs, i have been hit with it plenty of times in the 6 years in usmc infantry. i remember in 29 palms when an f18 dropped a whole bunch of silver balls of smoking cs, not fun. i tear and snot a little, and thats it. at the police academy in the chamber i got a good wiff of it, walked out in the fresh air and cleared right up. i will take cs/cn anyday in comparison to oc. oc spay sucks alot.
.

+10000 CS is nothing, OC really sucks. It would not stop a determined attacker though, let alone 10.