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View Full Version : California Bashing at Its Best


Bruce
12-14-2007, 1:10 PM
From Leverguns.com forums regarding AB821 and the DFG's new regulations:

I've got a question for you California folks:

WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO STOP BENDING OVER AND TAKING IT UP THE DERN BUTT?!?!?!

Whatever happenned to good old civil disobedience?

If they passed a dern law that said you had to wear pretty lace on your panties, you would all be lined up at Victoria Secrets picking out your underwear!

If this pisses you off....GOOD! That was the intent! What does it take to make you people mad enough to do something?!?!?!

Jeff Quinn
gunblast.com

California is a beautiful state, with some of the most fertile farmland and orchards in the world. I am not encouraging folks to leave at all.

What I am encouraging is to DISOBEY the law! Is nothing worth fighting for?

In Tennessee, it was once against the law for black folks to drink from the same fountain as other folks. It was against the law for black kids to go to the same schools as white kids.

In this whole nation it was once against the law for women to vote.

Do you people realize that the first gun control laws in the US were put in place to keep colored folks from having the power to rise up and do something? Your politicians don't give two craps about the condor. It is about disarming you people. Just because gun owners are in the minority doesn't mean that you have to be lap-dogs to everyone else!

Jeff Quinn
gunblast.com

PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS QUINN. MOVE OUT HERE AND BE "CIVILLY DISOBEDIENT". IT'S REAL EASY TO TELL SOMEBODY ELSE WHAT TO DO WHEN IT WILL HAVE NO AFFECT ON YOU.


No thanks. Looks like I would be fighting the fight all by myself. I really pissed off some of you men. That was my intention. You need to be pissed off until you reach the point that your freedom is more important than your incomes and comfort. I ain't fighting the fight for anyone in California. I will however, fight WITH Californians, whenever you are ready. You are not yet ready. I fight here in Tennessee, my home, and the land that I love. You should all do the same there. I do not fault any one of you for giving up and moving to freedom, but it would be best to win the freedom back for your fellow Californians, and future generations.

Did our ancestors give up their comforts, families, wealth, and even their lives so that we can so easily give the freedoms back to the government, because we are not willing to sacrifice anything ourselves? That is the definition of selfishness. Your government, and mine, has only the power that we allow it.

Contrary to your statement, Sir, it is not easy for me to tell someone else what to do. There comes a time, however, when a bit of prodding seems necessary. As for moving to California, I will never do so. My place is here. I could go to California and make big California money and pay big California taxes and live the big California lifestyle. I would rather be dead. God put me where he wants me. Same for you. I feel sorry for you fellows, but I am trying to help in the only way that seems appropriate to me at this time.

I will come out and help you gentlemen fight the fight, but there is no fight to fight at this time. It is your fight to get started. However, I don't see it happening at all with this generation. Too inconvenient, uncomfortable, and it might cost you something.

Don't take this personally, men, as I don't know any one of you. Therefore, it can't be personal. However, California gun owners get reamed constantly, and from the outside looking in, you seem to be allowing it without much protest. I watch the national news everynight. Perhaps I missed the mass protests from thousands of gun owners marching on Sacremento? If illegal aliens and ***gots can put on some serious protests in the Golden State, why can't the gun owners get off the couch and do the same?

Jeff Quinn
gunblast.com

oaklander
12-14-2007, 1:13 PM
Looks like he had too much coffee.

Prc329
12-14-2007, 1:16 PM
Someone that really doesn't know much about what is going on here. Just cause Governator didn't listen to the hundreds of calls I personally made along with emails and calls/emails/faxes, etc from everyone here doesn't mean we aren't fighting.

Charliegone
12-14-2007, 1:16 PM
Looks like he had too much coffee.

with coke...and no it's not that coke.:D

oaklander
12-14-2007, 1:18 PM
I'm waiting for Bill to pop into this thread and cut GunBlast to shreds.

:D

MrTuffPaws
12-14-2007, 1:22 PM
I see Jeff is off on another one of his rants again. I love the guy, but sometimes feel that he is close to dropping off the edge.

If they passed a dern law that said you had to wear pretty lace on your panties, you would all be lined up at Victoria Secrets picking out your underwear!

Why are you asking? :toetap05:

QuarterBoreGunner
12-14-2007, 1:24 PM
what's "dern"?

It's sounds folksy and old timey.

I think I heard it in "Oh Brother Where Art Thou"

Seriously though, it's easy for him to advocate breaking the law; will he foot the legal bills? We're fighting here creatively and intelligently; dude, this is California; we invented the iPod, the internet and the home computer he's posting that drivel from. Has he even seen the BB, Prince 50, U-15 or Monsterman? Did any innovations like that ever come from a place of complacency? No, they come from clever folk trying to legally do what they can to point out how asinine some of the laws out here are.
And we should be getting, not 'some' support, hell we should be getting 'all' the support from the other states, because in case they missed it - what happens here is simply a glimpse into what CAN and WILL happen in their isolated, insulated, 'anything goes' gun regulation free paradises.



Oh and we have the Pacific Ocean and most (all?) the hot chicks.

Grouch
12-14-2007, 1:25 PM
Jeff Quinn is an idiot.

WokMaster1
12-14-2007, 1:25 PM
Looks like he had too much coffee.

Ehhh! NO! He's from Tennessee. It's Jenkem!:D

It's about leverguns & lead ammo ban. He don't even know that we have OLLs. Anyone want to spend 5 minutes asking him if he knew we can own OLLs? I must remind you that it's 5 minutes of your life you'll never see again. Invite him over here & introduce him to our revolution.

DedEye
12-14-2007, 1:32 PM
what's "dern"?

It's sounds folksy and old timey.

I think I heard it in "Oh Brother Where Art Thou"

Seriously though, it's easy for him to advocate breaking the law; will he foot the legal bills? We're fighting here creatively and intelligently; dude, this is California; we invented the iPod, the internet the AR-15 and the home computer he's posting that drivel from. Has he even seen the BB, Prince 50, U-15 or Monsterman? Did any innovations like that ever come from a place of complacency? No, they come from clever folk trying to legally do what they can to point out how asinine some of the laws out here are.
And we should be getting, not 'some' support, hell we should be getting 'all' the support from the other states, because in case they missed it - what happens here is simply a glimpse into what CAN and WILL happen in their isolated, insulated, 'anything goes' gun regulation free paradises.



Oh and we have the Pacific Ocean and most (all?) the hot chicks.

If he really wants to disobey CA gun laws but doesn't have the stones to move here, I suggest he starts mailing 30 round mags to people throughout the state.

People like AM and Iggy ;).

After all, it's just "civil disobedience" :rolleyes:.

grammaton76
12-14-2007, 1:36 PM
Notice where he says he's getting his news: the mainstream media. Of course they aren't going to show anything about how much we fight/protest. We could have marches in all the top 5 cities of California and it wouldn't make a blip on the national news.

Because the mainstream media knows that the rest of the US likes to pretend they're Californians. Beverly Hills 90210... The OC... notice how most of these shows end up being watched and idolized by (admittedly, the saps of) the rest of the 49 states.

And because the mainstream media is decidedly anti gun, they absolutely want to portray this state as a wannabe-British, we-don't-like-guns-uniformly state. Anything pro-gun coming out of California will never get covered by the mainstream media, because it would absolutely subvert their efforts to brainwash the rest of the 49 states which look to California for their social guidance.

Anyone with a Gunblast login, is encouraged to bring this point up to him. I'm not gonna sign onto there and create an account from work. :p

QuarterBoreGunner
12-14-2007, 1:42 PM
we invented the iPod, the internet the AR-15 and the home computer Hey that's right! I forgot Fairchild was out here.

ivanimal
12-14-2007, 1:43 PM
Please post a link to the post, I would like to reply.

WolfMansDad
12-14-2007, 1:46 PM
Civil disobedience for Californians, eh? How many unregistered full-auto weapons, silencers, or short-barreled rifles does he keep? How many purchases has he made - and completed - at gun stores where he refused to fill out a 4473? How many bars, schools, churches, or other prohibited places has he carried his ccw piece in? It's easy to tell somebody else to do it, when he's too chicken to do it himself.

Oh, and civil disobedience in secret doesn't count. For it to be politically effective, it has to be done openly. He needs to post all his civil disobedience on his website for all to see.

In the grand scheme of things, there are only a few minor differences between Tennessee's gun laws and California's. If he wants to change things, he can start right at home.

Edit: Someone please forward that to him, would you? I gotta get back to work.

Hopi
12-14-2007, 1:59 PM
Remember, "we" voted for the reps that have passed these laws! We have nobody else but ourselves to blame....

How did that ever happen you might ask? Check this out for just one example of how we are SCREWING OURSELVES:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=882179#post882179

chris
12-14-2007, 3:58 PM
he should find out that the GOC sold us out. and we did fight but got screwed by someone who we thought was on our side. people outside this state have no clue as to how much we fight. it's the politicians who choose to ignore the will of the people anyway.

chris
12-14-2007, 4:02 PM
Remember, "we" voted for the reps that have passed these laws! We have nobody else but ourselves to blame....

How did that ever happen you might ask? Check this out for just one example of how we are SCREWING OURSELVES:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=882179#post882179

actually we did it to ourselves it true. but the root problem is that gun owners in this state in general want someone else to do it for them. it's makes sense. if gun owners in this state actually gave a crap the line at the NRA table would be longer than the line to get in the gun show. so yes we are to blame. we few who fight for everyone else is why were screwed. and dammit we try fricken hard though!

Full Clip
12-14-2007, 4:36 PM
I no longer waste time with the CA haters out there. If there weren't our gun laws to needle us over, it would be something else.
And they have no interest in supporting us in any way outside the pithy suggestion, "Why doncha move to a FREE state?!"
Whatever. :cool:

dustoff31
12-14-2007, 4:57 PM
but the root problem is that gun owners in this state in general want someone else to do it for them. it's makes sense. if gun owners in this state actually gave a crap the line at the NRA table would be longer than the line to get in the gun show. so yes we are to blame. we few who fight for everyone else is why were screwed. and dammit we try fricken hard though!


There is a lot of truth in that. Just the other day, how many people right here on this forum said straight up that they intended to vote for a gun grabber. (party immaterial)

Certainly the hater's exist. But I think a lot of out of state people mean well, but get that label because they just don't realize how corrupt, aloof, and out of control the political situation in CA is.

For example, people here are routinely ignored by their legislators. You call them, fax them, write letters, and they just blow it off. In many other states, people would say well, just drive over to their house, or catch them at the Safeway and give them a piece of your mind. And they do it. Same with recall elections.

Hopi
12-14-2007, 5:32 PM
There is a lot of truth in that. Just the other day, how many people right here on this forum said straight up that they intended to vote for a gun grabber. (party immaterial)

Certainly the hater's exist. But I think a lot of out of state people mean well, but get that label because they just don't realize how corrupt, aloof, and out of control the political situation in CA is.

For example, people here are routinely ignored by their legislators. You call them, fax them, write letters, and they just blow it off. In many other states, people would say well, just drive over to their house, or catch them at the Safeway and give them a piece of your mind. And they do it. Same with recall elections.

One would be too many.

Creeping Incrementalism
12-14-2007, 5:48 PM
However, California gun owners get reamed constantly, and from the outside looking in, you seem to be allowing it without much protest. I watch the national news everynight. Perhaps I missed the mass protests from thousands of gun owners marching on Sacremento? If illegal aliens and ***gots can put on some serious protests in the Golden State, why can't the gun owners get off the couch and do the same?

Were there thousands of Tennesseans marching on DC after the Clinton AW ban? Was there massive disobedience there from 94 to 04?

Bruce, I'd also like you to post what WolfMansDead said in this post on this thread on leverguns.

hoffmang
12-14-2007, 6:18 PM
If anyone follows up with him, demand he donate to BWO's legal defense or shove it up his ***.

-Gene

Two Shots
12-14-2007, 6:52 PM
Anyone know a perfect politician that is Pro-Guns and for the People?

Bruce
12-14-2007, 7:16 PM
FWIW: http://leverguns.sixgunner.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=36472

Grouch
12-14-2007, 7:45 PM
FWIW: http://leverguns.sixgunner.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=36472

If that forum is any indication of the level of intelligence of gun owners nationwide, we are all doomed.

I read nothing but a lot of talk from people with big e-balls but nothing else. :rolleyes:

Grouch
12-14-2007, 7:52 PM
After reading more of Jeff Quinn he's just a old coward. Forget him he's worthless and should be treated as such.

otteray
12-14-2007, 8:36 PM
The thread comment clearly was not directed to this site, but to members at leverguns.com.
So, instead of belittling and kicking Jeff's a** from behind, wouldn't it be more productive to address your feelings at the thread where it originated?
Maybe, as pro 2nd amendment citizens, we should try to educate rather than destroy those that believe in the same thing we do.

Bruce
12-15-2007, 8:47 AM
The thread comment clearly was not directed to this site, but to members at leverguns.com.


Go back and read it again. The last paragraph of my original post starts out:"Don't take this personally, men, as I don't know any one of you." Unless he was trying to weasel out on his own statements, he was referring to ALL Californians, not just the leverguns.com members. If you doubt that, go to http://www.gunblast.com/California.htm

Smokeybehr
12-15-2007, 8:55 AM
Go back and read it again. The last paragraph of my original post starts out:"Don't take this personally, men, as I don't know any one of you." Unless he was trying to weasel out on his own statements, he was referring to ALL Californians, not just the leverguns.com members. If you doubt that, go to http://www.gunblast.com/California.htm

Quinn is a f***ing moron. It's typical of some out-of-stater who thinks that CA is nothing but Beaches and the Bay Area, and has never been east of the San Andreas Fault.

The truth is that there are really 2 Californias: There is the California that is portrayed through movies and TV; then there is the California that feeds and clothes the world. The movie and TV California claims that if you're in LA or SF (or Ojai, or Santa Barbara) you're hip and cool, and if you're not, you're somehow a bumbling redneck idiot. In the California that feeds and clothes the world, we're sick and tired of LA and SF telling us what to do, and we wouldn't care one bit if LA and SF just dropped off the map.

4 Brigada
12-15-2007, 9:04 AM
Unfortunately, a lot of the gun owners in the US, blame the PRK gun laws for the their states passing/or trying to pass similar gun control laws.There is a post here in CG about the cr** that Las Vegas gunstores give california gun owners. I didnt believe it, I until I had the pleasure to have a similar experience. So I said SC** Vegas I never lost anything there except money.

MudCamper
12-15-2007, 9:12 AM
Go here (http://www.gunblast.com/feedback.htm) and tell him what you think.

dfletcher
12-15-2007, 9:21 AM
I hope it doesn't happen of course, but if the Dems get the White House AND hold Congress and do their usual anti - gun bit, those folks in other states will look to us and the expertise we gained (both technical and legislative) to work around or thwart gun control efforts.

Again, I hope everyone in other states learn from our experience - but if bad bills become law I'd expect some folks now casting stones will knock on our door asking for help.

redneckshootist
12-15-2007, 9:42 AM
sent him a email. Lets see how he responds.

Serpentine
12-15-2007, 9:42 AM
Go here (http://www.gunblast.com/feedback.htm) and tell him what you think.

Thanks for the link.

Draven
12-15-2007, 9:52 AM
So he wants us to pull the whole 'civil disobedience' thing?

Since we're automatically suspect (gun owners) and pariahs in SF, LA and Sac, they'd be more than happy to either throw us in prison or give us some obscure felony conviction but give us all probation, just so they can take our guns. totally.

blacklisted
12-15-2007, 9:59 AM
I wonder how many unregistered machine guns Mr. Quinn has as part of his civil disobedience?

I don't see any configurations that violate the Federal AWB in any of his pre-2004 reviews. :rolleyes:

Hunter
12-15-2007, 10:54 AM
I wonder how many unregistered machine guns Mr. Quinn has as part of his civil disobedience?

I don't see any configurations that violate the Federal AWB in any of his pre-2004 reviews. :rolleyes:

Heck, I just wonder what he did in the 80's when the Federal Wildlife Service banned lead from waterfowl hunting? Did he fight that then and does he now still use lead shot for hunting in TN???

Someone with an account over there, feel free to post these comments there.

Pappy91W
12-15-2007, 11:04 AM
my Fellow californians,

Why are we so angry at what Jeff Quinn has said?

I believe Jeff Quinn is right!

We COLLECTIvely do lack the "stones" to stand up and display civil disobedience to unjust and unconstitutional legislation. Hell, I'm NO BETTER! Going with the flow by yourself is EASY, it keeps me from getting imprisoned or killed by the police, truth be said. By myself, I'd have a snow balls chance in hell, and I am one of those "waiting" types for SOMEONE who is charismatic enough to inspire lots of folks to stand up and defy California's gun legislation, I know if I do it myself, I'll be ALL alone and I will get picked off right quick, then, that is the end of me and all my dreams for life, the news will tout me as one LONE GUN NUT killed by the police.

The fact of the matter is, I am NOT the only one of US that feels this way, chances are, you do too. I keep hoping someone, somewhere, will "lead" something HERE, I know I am sure not the right guy for the job, I have the social skills of a turd in a punch bowl, I have to believe that there are MANY just like me, that would stand up, even armed, and disobey gun legislation, while along side others like myself.

I think what Jeff Quinn is trying to say is what I have said above, so, what is so bad about that? How is it "California Bashing"? He's right, California is BEAUTIFUL, and it's a land worth fighting for, isn't it? And why should we leave? Why should we give it to the moonbats? Why should we give in and comply with THEM?

We do have charismatic men HERE at Calguns that have cooler heads, are well spoken, and brilliant tacticians, off the top of my head, Bill Weiss is one of them. One of these men could go a long way in uniting Californians such as ourselves to stand up.

I count myself among some of the finest gun owners of my state, I assert I do believe we could accomplish so much if we really did stand collectively.

hoffmang
12-15-2007, 11:27 AM
There is something important not in the calculations on civil disobedience and that is that we gun owners who care about these laws are a distinct minority - much smaller than blacks in the south for example.

As such, we can channel the efforts and desires into things like lobbying effectively (which we did absent the CPRA mess) and continuing to roll back silly California laws with strategic explotation, we're going to keep going the right direction.

Trying to march on Sacramento isn't going to get us very far yet. The same time and energy put into choosing one anti-gun Dem and making sure ANYONE else gets elected and taking credit for it is the way we'll all be taken very, very seriously by the legislature.

-Gene

Two Shots
12-15-2007, 11:29 AM
+1000 Pappy91 we take it and obey as an example:California wants to send illegals back, What happens thousands march News coverage. Black man is beaten all HeII breaks loose and the world reads about it. One man wants God taken from all Gov money and the pledge and he gets tons of News time. Gun laws that make a person a Felon because of a gun bought years before the ban is now illegal and should be turned in with no compensation. And the News doesn't give it a second thought. Why? Because we are law abiding and don't rally for protest against the laws. Why isn't thier any lawyers taking on the state to prove these laws are penalizing the citizens that work and support the economy and follow the laws? They list which guns are safe for us to buy, They tell you how many rounds in a magazine you can have etc and we wonder were these people get the idea were Sheeples.The real problem is the Nuts and Criminals need to be stopped not the Citizen that doesn't break the laws.
A question if they made it illegal to own all firearms would you line up and turn them in like England or say enough is enough and rally on the Capitol steps?

Grouch
12-15-2007, 12:42 PM
Go here (http://www.gunblast.com/feedback.htm) and tell him what you think.
Just sent this.


This is response to Jeff Quinn's comments urging civil disobedience in CA in efforts to forcibly change gun laws.

Jeff has no idea about what he is talking about. He is urging law abiding citizens (the good guy gun owners) to actively break law in protest. This is nonsense to say it nicely. Here in CA, us gun owners can not afford to do anything that would perpetuate a negative image of gun ownership. To do so only puts our rights and our person at further risk.

Jeff showed himself to be little more than a loud mouthed ignorant coward in his posts regarding the topic. When he is not willing to back up his demands for action with his own, he's lost any and all credibility he may once had and should be treated as such.

BillCA
12-15-2007, 12:48 PM
Pappy91w hit one point -- we're sitting on our collective rumps until some leader type comes along with "a plan" to stir the pot. Even then, I wonder how many of us will let someone else join the protests.

Here's my take on this. If you don't like the current situation - VOTE. Vote for someone new in your legislative district. Convince others in your district it's time for a change and get them to VOTE for a new guy. I'll point out that our current legislators have screwed up this state's budget, infrastructure, courts and economy. It's certainly time to VOTE the bas***ds out. If we don't, they'll continue to see themselves as unstoppable and unchallengable. Convince everyone you talk to that we have to VOTE for legislators who will cut state spending and focus on the basics, not looney political statements or positions. If we fail to do it, our state economy will be so bad it'll make the mid 70's look like fun times.

Who do you vote for in this state? That's up to you. This state has had one party in control since the 60's. In the last 30 years that party has demonstrated it's desire to over-regulate, over-legislate, under-enforce and generally make a shambles of life in "the golden state". VOTE for a new guy. Go to one or more of his meetings and ask him tough questions. Will he waste our taxpayer dollars on political statements like same-sex marriage, fighting to keep gun laws if SCOTUS says they're unconstitutional, and suing Detroit because cars pollute? Or will he focus on making California someplace that people can live without worrying some state commission will prevent them from mowing their laws to save the blue-spotted ladybug?

I've spent considerable time travelling in other states. One thing I hear a lot of, especially in our border states is "yeah, the damn Californians come here and then start whining because we don't have their stupid laws." I heard that in Nevada, Arizona and Idaho. In Missouri, a solidly (D) state, I heard people saying they hated having Californians move in because they don't care about local politics, just their own stupid ideas. And these aren't opinions from the MSM news or some internet rant. These opinions come from dealing with and interacting with people who have moved out of California but won't let go of left-coast politics.

Civil Disobedience:
I wonder how many unregistered machine guns Mr. Quinn has as part of his civil disobedience?
That, by far, is one of the stupidest statements I've seen on this board in a long time. Civil disobedience isn't about committing a felony crime in public. You are certainly welcome to try, however. Staging a protest is symbolic, to bring public attention to a debate, to show that large numbers object to a law, regulation or other restriction, be it segregated schools, restrooms or gun control. Some years ago there was an attempt to stage an "empty holster" protest in Sacramento against the "approved handgun list" bill. Few turned out and the media ignored it in droves.

The problem with protests:
As I see it, we have several problems in this state when it comes to protests. Organizers typically want to stage protests in Sacramento. Our state is huge and getting So-Cal protesters up to Sacramento is both expensive and time consuming. Heck, it's difficult even for someone in Fresno and at times, the SFBA. For some reason that I've never understood, organizers don't seem keen on the idea of holding TWO protests - one in the south and one in the north, coordinated for the same day & time. That reduces the need for people to spend two days travelling and a night in a hotel.

The other problem, which is more fundamental, I think, is that unlike other issues where the liberal-left can recruite college students, the unemployed and others, is that most gun-owners actually work for a living. Some of us are professional people in offices, while others work for various companies large and small. It can be difficult to arrange time off from work to attend a political protest, especially if it'll take a few days for travel. And there are some who would find their jobs at risk if they showed up on the 6 o'clock news because of the political views of their company or their boss. But if you don't take the risk, you don't get any gains either.

Nor do we have "deep pockets" groups funding our protests where we can afford to charter half a dozen busses to bring people to a protest.

Lastly, no matter how sound our message is, no matter how we define the "rules" for dress, conduct, speech or topics, gun-owners are a terribly independent and stubborn lot. You know there will be some long haired, full-bearded "Bubba" who shows up in cammies claiming it's his God-given right to own machine guns and rocket-launchers and that's what the press will show on the news.

SemiAutoSam
12-15-2007, 1:12 PM
Hell no.

If Government attempted this in my neighborhood about 30-40 % of the sheeple would just turn them in but its the 60-70% that the government would need to worry about.

There would be bloodshed on a massive scale.

In a way I look forward to it.

I'm tired of the communism in this country.






A question if they made it illegal to own all firearms would you line up and turn them in like England or say enough is enough and rally on the Capitol steps?

Grouch
12-15-2007, 1:15 PM
Civil Disobedience:

That, by far, is one of the stupidest statements I've seen on this board in a long time. Civil disobedience isn't about committing a felony crime in public. You are certainly welcome to try, however. Staging a protest is symbolic, to bring public attention to a debate, to show that large numbers object to a law, regulation or other restriction, be it segregated schools, restrooms or gun control. Some years ago there was an attempt to stage an "empty holster" protest in Sacramento against the "approved handgun list" bill. Few turned out and the media ignored it in droves.



See you're problem with you're criticism of what you quoted, is that you didn't read what Jeff Quinn says.

What I am encouraging is to DISOBEY the law!

Jeff Quinn doesn't say we should peaceably protest, he says we should break the law. Until he starts breaking the law in asks of civil disobedience he needs to keep his trap shut.

He's a coward and full of poop. And that is all he will ever be until he steps up to the plate.

4 Brigada
12-15-2007, 1:28 PM
Civil disobedience is walking a fine line, you do not want to break the law. If you do then they will beat you to the full extent of the law. The best thing is to rebel, but doing things like the build parties, building OLL, educating the LEOs ect use the law to your favor not theirs. Civil disobedience yes, breaking the law no, wont be much help to the cause, being in jail and all you guns confiscated. Just be labeled a psycho gun nut, homegrown terrorist, felon Pick your battles.

Gryff
12-15-2007, 2:19 PM
I fight here in Tennessee, my home, and the land that I love.

Jeff Quinn
gunblast.com

Tennessee! 15 million people, 5 last names.

bwiese
12-15-2007, 2:23 PM
Tennessee! 15 million people, 5 last names.

Bwaaah - family trees that loop instead of branching :)

Salty
12-15-2007, 4:15 PM
As far as lead ammo goes, I've got two words: Forth Amendment.

Outlaw Josey Wales
12-15-2007, 8:28 PM
Trying to march on Sacramento isn't going to get us very far yet. The same time and energy put into choosing one anti-gun Dem and making sure ANYONE else gets elected and taking credit for it is the way we'll all be taken very, very seriously by the legislature.

-Gene

The recall of former Governor Gray Davis should have made an impression, but useless gun legislation just kept coming. With three antigun bills signed into law by Governor Schwarzenegger, I'm sure the legislature is just shaking in their boots!

dustoff31
12-15-2007, 8:45 PM
The recall of former Governor Gray Davis should have made an impression, but useless gun legislation just kept coming. With three antigun bills signed into law by Governor Schwarzenegger, I'm sure the legislature is just shaking in their boots!

See, that's the problem. Recalling Davis was a good thing, but the people who should have been recalled are the ones who write and vote for those insane bills. If the bills are not there to begin with, the governor can't sign them.

FreedomIsNotFree
12-16-2007, 12:41 AM
Yet another example of some out of state blowhard that thinks he knows what he is talking about. How easy it must be for him to pontificate from halfway across the country about what we aren't doing and what we should be doing.

I have no respect for those that have none for me. It would have been easy for him to qualify his statement by saying "most", "majority"..etc..etc..when describing the apathy of CA gun owners....heck, I'd have agreed with him. But for him to lump all CA gun owners together shows a serious lack of intelligence. He could have easily found out about us had he tried. The fact that he didn't shows that not only does he lack intelligence, but he is a lazy bastard undeserving of serious consideration.

Zumbo and this guy must be related.

BillCA
12-16-2007, 8:12 AM
Originally Posted by Gryff http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=883800#post883800)
Tennessee! 15 million people, 5 last names.
Bwaaah - family trees that loop instead of branching


Do we need this? Or would you like to hear some California jokes?

California's old motto - the land of fruits and nuts - is more true today than ever before.

The focus on recalling Gray Davis was misplaced. The true recall effort should have been (and should be) focused on the legislators. They are the ones screwing up California with idiotic legislation. I don't think I've voted for a Democrat in over 25 years simply because none of them could or would vote against tax increases, more entitlement programs or gun control.

aileron
12-16-2007, 9:03 AM
Hey that's right! I forgot Fairchild was out here.

Eugene Stoner

aileron
12-16-2007, 9:29 AM
Quinn is a f***ing moron. It's typical of some out-of-stater who thinks that CA is nothing but Beaches and the Bay Area, and has never been east of the San Andreas Fault.

The truth is that there are really 2 Californias: There is the California that is portrayed through movies and TV; then there is the California that feeds and clothes the world. The movie and TV California claims that if you're in LA or SF (or Ojai, or Santa Barbara) you're hip and cool, and if you're not, you're somehow a bumbling redneck idiot. In the California that feeds and clothes the world, we're sick and tired of LA and SF telling us what to do, and we wouldn't care one bit if LA and SF just dropped off the map.

Excuse me, but I live in the LA county area, and as much as I know the world doesn't revolve around LA, and I hate the fact that it has more say than it should. Drop off the map? Come on now, thats what out-of-staters would say.

I like California, I hate the laws and hope we can turn the tide,l actually I expect we will. Example: BWO is in LA fighting for his life and with support from CA gunners he is fighting back. His back is up against the wall, and so are ours, we supported him in kind to push back, and say NO YOU WONT! A voice is rising from all around, and its the anti-gunners that are being surrounded.

I wouldn't count us out.

MrTuffPaws
12-16-2007, 10:47 AM
The focus on recalling Gray Davis was misplaced. The true recall effort should have been (and should be) focused on the legislators. They are the ones screwing up California with idiotic legislation. I don't think I've voted for a Democrat in over 25 years simply because none of them could or would vote against tax increases, more entitlement programs or gun control.

I think more of a problem is that it is way too easy to have the people modify the constitution, and too hard people initiated changes to be removed IMO.

FreedomIsNotFree
12-16-2007, 11:38 AM
I think more of a problem is that it is way too easy to have the people modify the constitution, and too hard people initiated changes to be removed IMO.


The Consitution is rarely modified. Its the corrupt polliticians and activist Judges, creating law from the bench, that have been a bane to our Consitutional Republic.

redneckshootist
12-16-2007, 2:59 PM
Sir,
I know that some are fighting in California, but the majority of gun owners are not. I was just trying to maybe get more of them off their duff and do something. I get emails daily from California shooters who have given up and lost all hope. I try to encourage them to organize. I was accused on Leverguns by some of calling names, but that wasn't me, if you care to read again my posts. I did deliberately try to piss off a couple of those guys over there who always whine, but are not willing to do anything. Some of those guys are always looking for a reason to NOT do anything. I do not know you, Sir, so I certainly wasn't trying to personally offend you.
I hope that in the past you have gained something useful by reading Gunblast, and if in the future I can provide any useful information to you, or if there is any way that I can be of assistance in your fight in California, I will gladly do so. When speaking with my contacts within the gun industry and Congress, I do discuss the lead ban issue that is affecting you folks, and hopefully, I am helping a little bit from this end, but for Congress to do anything, they must first hear from many California shooters and hunters. I have joined the fight, but I am also trying to get as many california shooters involved as possible. The louder the voice, the better. You do not know me, Sir, so I will ignore the name-calling. I understand you getting pissed at me. That was my intention. Hopefully, it will do some good.

Jeff

here is his responce to my email

pieeater
12-16-2007, 6:37 PM
He's right! I think i'll move to a free state where after a 6 month wait I can purchace a $900 40 year old MP-5 for 15,000.

SemiAutoSam
12-16-2007, 7:27 PM
You can thank the NRA partly for that.

IMO and according to other sources that is.

He's right! I think i'll move to a free state where after a 6 month wait I can purchase a $900 40 year old MP-5 for 15,000.

deldgeetar
12-16-2007, 9:57 PM
He's right! I think i'll move to a free state where after a 6 month wait I can purchace a $900 40 year old MP-5 for 15,000.

Yes, where you can also purchase guns that are configured correctly and standard capacity mags. Gee, living in a free state really sucks.:rolleyes:

I have to agree with the poster about CA gun owners. We are like beaten wives begging not to be hit again. Does no one else get outraged that we have to mangle our guns to make them "CA compliant"? I'm sorry, I will not settle for a fixed mag or an ugly quasi-grip for the "privilege" of owning a so-called "assault weapon." And I wasn't aware that a standard capacity mag that holds more than 10 rounds changes you from a law-abiding gun owner to a serial killer or mass murderer! This state makes a mockery of our right to KEEP and BEAR arms. Yet, here we sit, trying to defend mangled and ineffective weapons as "off-list" and therefore legal, rather than going to the heart of the problem. An off-list rifle is NOT a step towards getting the so-called "Assault Weapon" ban removed. A constitutional challenge is. Luckily, with no help from CA gun owners, such a battle will take place in the SCOTUS soon. We MAY be helped by this, if we have the balls to take the precedent and run with it. Let's put our money where our mouth is, gentlemen. I've been a CA resident my whole life and an NRA member since I was 12. I donate to causes that will increase, not restrict, my right to keep and bear arms. Please do the same. We may yet see a day where we can own weapons that *gasp*:rolleyes: have both a pistol grip and a standard capacity detachable magazine at the same time! What a concept!

hoffmang
12-16-2007, 10:13 PM
The perfect continues to be the enemy of the good.

I have an option for you deldgeetar. You can simply not buy an AR.

However, I bet you'd agree that its better to have an MMG or a Bullet Button than not own one at all.

Everyone here does get that these work arounds are not going to be permanent, right? They are just incremental steps on the road back to normalcy.

-Gene

oaklander
12-16-2007, 10:18 PM
Why is it that some people don't see the progress we have made so far?

Yes, where you can also purchase guns that are configured correctly and standard capacity mags. Gee, living in a free state really sucks.:rolleyes:

I have to agree with the poster about CA gun owners. We are like beaten wives begging not to be hit again. Does no one else get outraged that we have to mangle our guns to make them "CA compliant"? I'm sorry, I will not settle for a fixed mag or an ugly quasi-grip for the "privilege" of owning a so-called "assault weapon." And I wasn't aware that a standard capacity mag that holds more than 10 rounds changes you from a law-abiding gun owner to a serial killer or mass murderer! This state makes a mockery of our right to KEEP and BEAR arms. Yet, here we sit, trying to defend mangled and ineffective weapons as "off-list" and therefore legal, rather than going to the heart of the problem. An off-list rifle is NOT a step towards getting the so-called "Assault Weapon" ban removed. A constitutional challenge is. Luckily, with no help from CA gun owners, such a battle will take place in the SCOTUS soon. We MAY be helped by this, if we have the balls to take the precedent and run with it. Let's put our money where our mouth is, gentlemen. I've been a CA resident my whole life and an NRA member since I was 12. I donate to causes that will increase, not restrict, my right to keep and bear arms. Please do the same. We may yet see a day where we can own weapons that *gasp*:rolleyes: have both a pistol grip and a standard capacity detachable magazine at the same time! What a concept!

Waingro
12-16-2007, 11:13 PM
From Leverguns.com forums regarding AB821 and the DFG's new regulations:

I've got a question for you California folks:

WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO STOP BENDING OVER AND TAKING IT UP THE DERN BUTT?!?!?!

Whatever happenned to good old civil disobedience?

If they passed a dern law that said you had to wear pretty lace on your panties, you would all be lined up at Victoria Secrets picking out your underwear!

If this pisses you off....GOOD! That was the intent! What does it take to make you people mad enough to do something?!?!?!

Jeff Quinn
gunblast.com

California is a beautiful state, with some of the most fertile farmland and orchards in the world. I am not encouraging folks to leave at all.

What I am encouraging is to DISOBEY the law! Is nothing worth fighting for?

In Tennessee, it was once against the law for black folks to drink from the same fountain as other folks. It was against the law for black kids to go to the same schools as white kids.

In this whole nation it was once against the law for women to vote.

Do you people realize that the first gun control laws in the US were put in place to keep colored folks from having the power to rise up and do something? Your politicians don't give two craps about the condor. It is about disarming you people. Just because gun owners are in the minority doesn't mean that you have to be lap-dogs to everyone else!

Jeff Quinn
gunblast.com

PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS QUINN. MOVE OUT HERE AND BE "CIVILLY DISOBEDIENT". IT'S REAL EASY TO TELL SOMEBODY ELSE WHAT TO DO WHEN IT WILL HAVE NO AFFECT ON YOU.


No thanks. Looks like I would be fighting the fight all by myself. I really pissed off some of you men. That was my intention. You need to be pissed off until you reach the point that your freedom is more important than your incomes and comfort. I ain't fighting the fight for anyone in California. I will however, fight WITH Californians, whenever you are ready. You are not yet ready. I fight here in Tennessee, my home, and the land that I love. You should all do the same there. I do not fault any one of you for giving up and moving to freedom, but it would be best to win the freedom back for your fellow Californians, and future generations.

Did our ancestors give up their comforts, families, wealth, and even their lives so that we can so easily give the freedoms back to the government, because we are not willing to sacrifice anything ourselves? That is the definition of selfishness. Your government, and mine, has only the power that we allow it.

Contrary to your statement, Sir, it is not easy for me to tell someone else what to do. There comes a time, however, when a bit of prodding seems necessary. As for moving to California, I will never do so. My place is here. I could go to California and make big California money and pay big California taxes and live the big California lifestyle. I would rather be dead. God put me where he wants me. Same for you. I feel sorry for you fellows, but I am trying to help in the only way that seems appropriate to me at this time.

I will come out and help you gentlemen fight the fight, but there is no fight to fight at this time. It is your fight to get started. However, I don't see it happening at all with this generation. Too inconvenient, uncomfortable, and it might cost you something.

Don't take this personally, men, as I don't know any one of you. Therefore, it can't be personal. However, California gun owners get reamed constantly, and from the outside looking in, you seem to be allowing it without much protest. I watch the national news everynight. Perhaps I missed the mass protests from thousands of gun owners marching on Sacremento? If illegal aliens and ***gots can put on some serious protests in the Golden State, why can't the gun owners get off the couch and do the same?

Jeff Quinn
gunblast.com

He has a good point for all you guys wanting to have those real cool guns. He is advocating breaking the law - the same law that the state of CA is breaking. Was there ever a march with AR-15's down the coast line (without bullet buttons or stuff and 30 round magazines). I wouldn't want to do it since I am not into that kind of stuff (Cool AW looking guns) but for all of you getting screwed by CA - maybe it is time to stop writing letters and do a march. Slaves did not get free by writing angry letters to white people.

deldgeetar
12-16-2007, 11:31 PM
The perfect continues to be the enemy of the good.

I have an option for you deldgeetar. You can simply not buy an AR.

However, I bet you'd agree that its better to have an MMG or a Bullet Button than not own one at all.

Everyone here does get that these work arounds are not going to be permanent, right? They are just incremental steps on the road back to normalcy.

-Gene

Trust me, I won't be buying an AR, and if I did, it would be configured correctly. I do own a Saiga, which is nice because I could configure it to take standard AK mags for those times I frequently travel out of state, and still maintain a stock configuration with 10 round mags and no pistol grip here.

I understand the spirit of the Bullet Button and MonsterMan grip, and that these retain the possibility of restoring the standard configuration of the rifle one day, but it seems like these are baby steps on a road we should be running down. I don't know what it will take to restore the anger in the average gun owner, who should realize that our rights have been spat upon and taken from us, unconstitutionally, by an out-of-control government. Incrementalism is what got us here, so I don't understand how hunters could possibly believe that the only weapons that will be banned are military style weapons. The lead ammo ban is another example that they aren't just after certain spectrums of weapons; they don't want people owning guns PERIOD in CA. Because a gun free state is a crime free state, right?:rolleyes:

hoffmang
12-16-2007, 11:36 PM
Well deld, get your $50K out and chose your lawyer and legal strategy and go get us the right to configure our ARs correctly. I'll be waiting for your status updates...

And Wain... the "slaves" actually did chose which laws to violate very carefully when actually getting their rights. I suggest you search google for "Deacons for Defense and Justice" and read this (http://www.africa.upenn.edu/Articles_Gen/Letter_Birmingham.html).

-Gene

deldgeetar
12-16-2007, 11:36 PM
Why is it that some people don't see the progress we have made so far?

I see the progress, but it isn't enough. Furthermore, it seems that every time we take a step forward, instead of using our momentum to propel us further, we take three more steps back. Look at the moron in the governor's chair, for example. I could have sworn he ran on more conservative principles, and you'd think he would defend personal freedoms. But of course not. The culture in Sacramento is an anti-gun culture, and needs to be removed from the halls of the capital. Rejoicing in the fact that we can have a pistol grip on an AR if we fix the mag (because mommy and daddy Legislator screwed up, yay!:rolleyes:) is foolish.

deldgeetar
12-16-2007, 11:41 PM
Well deld, get your $50K out and chose your lawyer and legal strategy and go get us the right to configure our ARs correctly. I'll be waiting for your status updates...

And Wain... the "slaves" actually did chose which laws to violate very carefully when actually getting their rights. I suggest you search google for "Deacons of Defense and Justice" and read this (http://www.africa.upenn.edu/Articles_Gen/Letter_Birmingham.html).

-Gene

And this is why we lose our rights. Instead of gun owners banding together and raising the $50K to restore our rights in a court of law, you instead tell me to go it alone, because you aren't willing to be any part of it. You start from a position of defense, and are scared to go on offense. CA gun owners talk a big game, but when the rubber hits the road they don't do ****. They just stand in front the of capital and say, "Please, don't hit me again! I promise I'll be good!"

DedEye
12-16-2007, 11:42 PM
And this is why we lose our rights. Instead of gun owners banding together and raising the $50K to restore our rights in a court of law, you instead tell me to go it alone, because you aren't willing to be any part of it. You start from a position of defense, and are scared to go on offense. CA gun owners talk a big game, but when the rubber hits the road they don't do ****. They just stand in front the of capital and say, "Please, don't hit me again! I promise I'll be good!"

You, my good sir, have absolutely no idea what you're talking about and appear a fool with each additional post. Please, stop now. You're embarassing yourself.

deldgeetar
12-16-2007, 11:43 PM
You, my good sir, have absolutely no idea what you're talking about and appear a fool with each additional post. Please, stop now. You're embarassing yourself.

Yes, and your convincing argument to the contrary definitely shows I am wrong. Thank you for your enlightenment.:rolleyes:

hoffmang
12-16-2007, 11:46 PM
And this is why we lose our rights. Instead of gun owners banding together and raising the $50K to restore our rights in a court of law, you instead tell me to go it alone, because you aren't willing to be any part of it. You start from a position of defense, and are scared to go on offense. CA gun owners talk a big game, but when the rubber hits the road they don't do ****. They just stand in front the of capital and say, "Please, don't hit me again! I promise I'll be good!"

Nope. That's right (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=59936). I've never (http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/oal/OAL-280-Suspension-Notice-2007-09-21-w-Attachments.pdf) done anything (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=45322) for gun rights (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=45321) in the state.

-Gene

deldgeetar
12-16-2007, 11:49 PM
Nope. That's right (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=59936). I've never (http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/oal/OAL-280-Suspension-Notice-2007-09-21-w-Attachments.pdf) done anything (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=45322) for gun rights (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=45321) in the state.

-Gene

Magazine locks increase our rights in this state? I'm sorry, I could have sworn that plays right into the hands of anti-gun legislation. Listen, I understand you and I have the same end goal, but I do not think that these methods are an effective way of ending the so-called "Assault Weapon" ban in this state. They do show the idiocy of the laws surrounding them, but just try to get a politician to admit they are wrong. It won't happen.

hoffmang
12-16-2007, 11:51 PM
Hey Del,

I listed what I've done (so far) to get more functional firearms better functioning in this state through money, brains and time.

You've done what exactly?

-Gene

GSequoia
12-16-2007, 11:57 PM
Magazine locks increase our rights in this state?

What would you rather have.

An AR with a fixed magazine, you have to open it up every time you want to load it.

An AR with a magazine that is easily removed with a tool to facilitate reloading.


Wanting an AR with a regular magazine well is not part of this equation. Remember, the goal here is to work within the law to go around the law, highlighting the ineffectiveness of the law.

DedEye
12-17-2007, 12:00 AM
What would you rather have.

An AR with a fixed magazine, you have to open it up every time you want to load it.

An AR with a magazine that is easily removed with a tool to facilitate reloading.


Wanting an AR with a regular magazine well is not part of this equation. Remember, the goal here is to work within the law to go around the law, highlighting the ineffectiveness of the law.

Or you can do a featureless build with a Monsterman Grip.

How is getting thousands of new AR and AK owners in CA "playing into the anti-gunner's hands?"

deldgeetar
12-17-2007, 12:01 AM
Hey Del,

I listed what I've done (so far) to get more functional firearms better functioning in this state through money, brains and time.

You've done what exactly?

-Gene

I support 2nd Amendment rights daily in this state. I'm sorry that I don't have any cute PDFs to post about how I made life easier for gun owners in CA.:rolleyes: I'm not here to get in a pissing contest about what I've done. I have given a considerable amount of financial support to pro-2nd causes that will help us here in CA. What I am trying to do is to change the attitude of gun owners across this state. We are like a football team in a stretch with no wins. We need a radical change in attitude to give us some confidence and get the support we need to mount the legal battle. The problem with Californians is that rather than looking at restoring our rights, we just try to protect the ones we have and try to prevent those from shrinking. Looking at the last 10 years, this has been a losing strategy.

ivanimal
12-17-2007, 12:02 AM
Yes, and your convincing argument to the contrary definitely shows I am wrong. Thank you for your enlightenment.:rolleyes:

You have turned this into your personal gripe session, please start another thread or just stop posting on this one. The person you are accusing of doing nothing has done more for us than the rest of us combined. He has certainly done more than you or I. You should be so involved in our fight. It wont take long to research my statement. Do that, then come back and list your accomplishments. I will not be posting them here as I don't have all year to explain them to you.

Gene, thank you for your dedication.

deldgeetar
12-17-2007, 12:04 AM
What would you rather have.

An AR with a fixed magazine, you have to open it up every time you want to load it.

An AR with a magazine that is easily removed with a tool to facilitate reloading.


Wanting an AR with a regular magazine well is not part of this equation. Remember, the goal here is to work within the law to go around the law, highlighting the ineffectiveness of the law.

This is the problem my friend. An AR with a regular magazine well is our right. If the law is unconstitutional, why should we work within it? I'm not advocating going out and breaking the law, but instead of doing piddly-widdly mods that make it legal, why don't we combine resources and go after the law in court. An OLL is just a band-aid on the real problem. "Highlighting the ineffectiveness of a law" does nothing to change it. Politicians WILL NOT admit they were wrong. Period.

deldgeetar
12-17-2007, 12:06 AM
You have turned this into your personal gripe session, please start another thread or just stop posting on this one. The person you are accusing of doing nothing has done more for us than the rest of us combined. He has certainly done more than you or I. You should be so involved in our fight. It wont take long to research my statement. Do that, then come back and list your accomplishments. I will not be posting them here as I don't have all year to explain them to you.

Gene, thank you for your dedication.

That quote was directed towards another individual who attempted to attack me with his "logic.":rolleyes:

GSequoia
12-17-2007, 12:10 AM
If the law is unconstitutional

But... We are...

What do you propose in the meantime? Not possessing guns?

Nobody here is arguing bullet buttons, monster mans, and prince 50's as a permanent solution mate.

DedEye
12-17-2007, 12:11 AM
That quote was directed towards another individual who attempted to attack me with his "logic.":rolleyes:

If you want to see my logic, read anything that Gene has posted.

I have given a considerable amount of financial support to pro-2nd causes that will help us here in CA.

Didn't happen to be GOC or CRPA did it :rolleyes:?

leelaw
12-17-2007, 12:15 AM
This is the problem my friend. An AR with a regular magazine well is our right. If the law is unconstitutional, why should we work within it? I'm not advocating going out and breaking the law, but instead of doing piddly-widdly mods that make it legal, why don't we combine resources and go after the law in court. An OLL is just a band-aid on the real problem. "Highlighting the ineffectiveness of a law" does nothing to change it. Politicians WILL NOT admit they were wrong. Period.

I'd love to give juicy details, but this is not the place, and now is not the time.

Suffice to say that you're wrong on several counts.

One thing to consider is timing, and using the law, and stare decisis to our advantage. Right now, in California, it was ruled that the 2nd Amendment is not an individual right. Fighting most of our laws right now is nearly impossible, but, come a positive SCOTUS decision for Heller, and we will have some major footing to work from.

Your bit about Gene's "cute PDF" is very telling of your knowledge of who you are speaking to and griping about.

bwiese
12-17-2007, 12:15 AM
I am uncomfortable with the jist of some of the posts above.

It seems like they're urging illegal conduct as the only way to fight. That's stupid, because all it does is put a buncha gunnies in jail with lifetime firearms prohibitions, etc.

I think some of these folks may be agent provocateurs from the other side.

Two years ago, the only black rifles you saw at CA ranges were reg'd AWs owned by folks who were able, thru age/finance/foresight/blind luck to buy them before 2000.

Nowadays it seems every range in CA has 50% of its slots occupied by legal OLL shooters who only have trivial differences in their rifles, ones which one can readily become accustomed to.

Some folks are shortsighted and think the victory is a small one about pistol grips or mag locks, not realizing this is just one brick in the path of bringing down the CA AW laws - and that the real achievement of the OLL phenomenon is getting the DOJ Firearms Bureau to act in a variety of strange, humourous ways, with documentation to fuel future court fights. It'll take a couple of years, but we'l get there. Strangely, we've thus been helped enormously by our enemies in the DOJ Firearms Bureau.

Like the AW laws, 'safe handgun' laws have been eviscerated too by smart folks understanding the exemptions to Rostering.

The future of CA gun laws is that incompetent legislators & their staff members create BS laws, and we just find exploitable opportunities that then develop into court cases taking down the whole law.

ivanimal
12-17-2007, 12:17 AM
That quote was directed towards another individual who attempted to attack me with his "logic.":rolleyes:

That does not change the fact that you are taking over this thread in your personal gripe session. Take it elsewhere.

Funny choice of words "attack" "Logic" you seem to be fighting a different fight than the rest of us.

hoffmang
12-17-2007, 12:17 AM
I shouldn't expect people to read things I link to so I'll call out something important from Dr. King's letter (http://www.africa.upenn.edu/Articles_Gen/Letter_Birmingham.html):


I hope you are able to ace the distinction I am trying to point out. In no sense do I advocate evading or defying the law, as would the rabid segregationist. That would lead to anarchy. One who breaks an unjust law must do so openly, lovingly, and with a willingness to accept the penalty. I submit that an individual who breaks a law that conscience tells him is unjust and who willingly accepts the penalty of imprisonment in order to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the highest respect for law.

I respect the rule of law and fully believe the AWCA to be unconstitutional. However, I'm comfortably certain that I and the others who are being smart on here can destroy the AWCA incrementally so that it is both gutted in fact up until the house of cards actually gets struck from the books. I tend to find that my work to advance the Second Amendment is more valuable when I'm not sitting in a jail and can earn an income and have the free time to confound the forces working against us.

If you'd like to go break the law - even one that's unconstitutional - I expect that you better think through the implications of what Dr. King was saying there.

-Gene

Kestryll
12-17-2007, 9:55 AM
This is folly.

Gene has done more than darn near anyone to restore and further or rights here in CA. There are a few others here who belong on the same list as him and most of us know who they are.

Deld, I'm sure you'd like to see the complete revocation of all the stupid gun laws this State has passed happen today, we all would.
However here in the real world of legislation and politics that WILL NOT HAPPEN, at least not today. We did not get here over night and we will not get back in that fashion either, but we WILL get there.

I'm sure Bill and other will wince at my admonition to you but to take a phrase from the Bible, how can you remove the splinter from another's eye when you can not see past the timber in your own?
Do not focus on what others are doing anymore than is necessary to insure that you are not acting counter to the best interests of our cause.
If you spend all your time measuring one's action versus another's you'll end up doing nothing. There is much that has been done and much more to do, no one here is leaving the table until it is done.


All that said I will add this warning to all posting.
We DO NOT advocate illegal activity here nor do we allow members to do so.
We may oppose the current laws but our opposition will come through legal means of redress.
If you feel these are not sufficient, discuss it elsewhere.
Anyone choosing to ignore this warning will have their account closed.
Yes, we take it that seriously.

mikehaas
12-17-2007, 11:30 AM
You guys don't understand. The "Quinns" of the world, who have never had to fight for any gun-rights, are PURE - they have never been VIOLATED by gun control.

Therefore, when a "Quinn" lowers himself to appear before a Californian, he shall be bathed in the light of great healing powers, much like the Virgin Mary at Lourdes. You see, the "Virgin Quinn" gives birth to great knowledge while never having been touched by gun control - a true "Immaculate Conception." Hark! Do you not see the star in the East? Who dare not follow it?

And should we ever be similarly blessed - were we to attain the state of extreme brilliance that shines forth from a "Quinn", you will know. You will discover yourself sending money to GOA to pay for someone's swimming pool. And that shall be proof positive, you will have attained the ranks of RKBA "Virgin".

I'm finally seeing a good reason to have a "well-regulated" militia - so we can keep out the 'Quinns'.

Are we done laughing at the circus clowns yet?

Mike

chunger
12-17-2007, 7:09 PM
In the fight for 2nd amendment freedoms, just like any other fight, we have to apply tactics that are compatible with the position you are in.

There are 2 positions (at least). . .

1. A position of strength
2. A position of weakness

We fight from a weak position due to pure numbers, constituency of elected officials, general public perception, court opinions in the 9th circuit, etc. We cannot apply tactics that are relevant to a position of strength here and expect for them to work. . . and a lot of people don't have the stomach to steadily wage a successful political "guerrilla war". They get frustrated and lash out because those doing the real work are all "cowards".

If you have a total force of 300, you don't go charging into a force of 10,000 in the open field and expect to win in the long run (ie. all go marching up Sacramento with illegal firearms and get arrested). It would be quite brave and symbolic, but tactically stupid. In a guerrilla campaign, you have to do things like hide and not make ripples or be invisible at certain sensitive times. Make it easy for people to tangibly join with you and aid you without undo danger of persecution (60,000 OLL's help tremendously in this regard). Legally protect those that are with you and come under attack (BWO). Expose the the flaws of your opposition's point of view. Seek help from across borders (Heller vs. DC, friendly out of state FFL's). Educate people about your plight and how your cause is relevant to them (expose non-gun owners to shooting in a safe/fun/practical manner). Attack the legal foundations and inconsistencies of new and old laws to render them in-effective (make the enemy spend money and political capital to no effect). We have to continue with these and other relevant tactics for a long time, and if we're successful, we will build our cause and our numbers.

At some point, if we are smarter and more vigilant than the opposition, our numbers will grow. We will win seats in senate and congress. We will have more money (very important for gun owners to be smart about finances and become successful w/ expendable income!). We will have momentum pushing in from outside our borders. We might be able to adopt tactics in certain situations that reflect a position of strength and meet the enemy in the open field. That time is not now.

CRPA and GOA have helped demonstrate recently that if you use tactics in the wrong context and make your attack at the wrong time, you get your @*S kicked real fast.

deldgeetar
12-17-2007, 10:20 PM
It seems that many of you have misinterpreted what I was saying. As I stated before, I DO NOT advocate breaking CA law in any way to combat the unjust laws we face. I understand that increasing the number of OLLs and such in CA does lend credence to our case, but it still seems like we need to take bigger steps. I would of course throw my financial support behind such steps.

If my posts seem angry and frustrated, it is because I am. I just don't understand why fellow gun owners don't feel the righteous indignation that I do regarding our rights here in CA. Unfortunately I am not a lawyer so I cannot directly attack the laws we face.

oaklander
12-17-2007, 10:41 PM
Glad to have you on board!!!

:D

DG - this is what a lot of people are doing to fight the good fight:

1) If you aren't already a member - join the NRA - and try to give them extra money when they ask for it.

2) Join your local NRA member's council (NRAMC) and get involved at a local level - recruiting new members at gun shows, for example.

3) Start networking with the folks on this board - bweise and hoffmang are both keyed in with what's going on.

4) Buy and shoot OLL's and spread the word among firearms enthusiasts - this is a grassroots revolution.

pieeater
12-18-2007, 8:39 PM
No you cant. I want modern military weapons. What state can I purchace a new M16 , MP5 , M249 Sig 551 or a real FNP90. None. Also most of the unneutered guns you are thinking of have been neutered - semi auto only, 16"+ barrels, compliance parts, etc, etc,

Yes, where you can also purchase guns that are configured correctly