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Waingro
12-13-2007, 12:11 PM
Well the question that I have not seen asked. Have any of you ever shot anyone (on purpose)? LEO or civilian. Hell, military too.

Did training kick in? Please do tell your experience. I hear when your in that kind of situation only 10% of your training sticks with you.

Another thing is that you all talk a lot about shot placement, calibers, best self defense weapons, etc. I am also curious to see who has actually been in this situation.

ohsmily
12-13-2007, 12:13 PM
I think that most people who have been involved in shootings, especially non-job related ones won't be inclined to comment about it on a public forum.

YMMV.

If you really want to know about this stuff, there are a number of books, manuals, and columns in various magazines written by people who have been through the experience.

wildcard
12-13-2007, 12:23 PM
I shoot black guys.. white guys.. and occasionally white girls (only after I hit the "hostage taker).. and gray guys..

I'll continue to do so until somebody prints them in a color other than that :)

QuarterBoreGunner
12-13-2007, 12:31 PM
I hurt someone's feelings once...

50 Freak
12-13-2007, 12:31 PM
Plenty of people, I've litteraly shot and killed thousands of men, women and ugly troll looking kid-lings. However all my killings have been on Nintendo or Sega.

Waingro
12-13-2007, 12:39 PM
4 replies already and only 1 with any information. impressive.

edit: wait it was 7 - but they got deleted so quickly because of the sexual and disgusting nature of them.

rkt88edmo
12-13-2007, 12:42 PM
The topics has been raised before, more than once, I think Ohsmily has covered the essentials.

As far as us all "talking about best self defense and shot placement calibre etc.", I honestly think that is less than 1% of the conversation here.

4 Brigada
12-13-2007, 12:42 PM
You know I dont think that this is the place to discuss your question. I move that it be removed

WolfMansDad
12-13-2007, 12:44 PM
You know I dont think that this is the place to discuss your question. I move that it be removed

Second

SJshooter
12-13-2007, 12:46 PM
In my experience (I asked this same question in another forum about two years ago), people do not want to talk about their experiences. They are, for the most part, traumatic. Many will find offense even at you asking, although I agree with you that the sharing of stories only helps others.

If you really want to read a lot of real-life shooting stories, I suggest two venues:
1) Glock Talk - for some reason this forum always seems to have a thread like this going, and its the only gun forum I have seen where people participate regularly in this type of discussion. Often with enthusiasm.
2) The writings of Charles Askins. Pick up "Unrepentant Sinner" and you can read all the shooting stories you want - no holds barred.

Bobula
12-13-2007, 12:47 PM
You know I dont think that this is the place to discuss your question. I move that it be removed
Third

Waingro
12-13-2007, 12:48 PM
You know I dont think that this is the place to discuss your question. I move that it be removed

On what grounds? This is a gun forum. We do have military members, LEO's, and armed civilians.

It would be very useful to know how they reacted during a self defense shooting. After reading about the member that got shot at it got me curious.

I would also like to know how much training really sticks in situations such as these. I would imagine my self just unloading the whole magazine in the general direction. I know I have to consider what is behind the target, shot placement, and such but in such a high stress situation would that really occur? When watching cop videos you can even see officer training go wrong.

I don't see why this question is not discussable, I am not asking "Who did a drive by and popped a cap in someone?"

QuarterBoreGunner
12-13-2007, 12:48 PM
If you really want to know about this stuff, there are a number of books, manuals, and columns in various magazines written by people who have been through the experience. What ohsmily said is true; instead of internet anecdotes or internet tough guy posturing, why not get verified, documented info from the 'been there done that' crowd.

And to answer your original question, I shot a man that was trying to kill me and two others.

And it sucked. Glad I got through it, but could have done without it.

I have no problem answering serious questions, but frankly I've been on this board a while and it's been discussed to death.

Soldier415
12-13-2007, 12:50 PM
The thing is, the discussion waingro wants to have is better done over a beer (or bottle of scotch) between two people, not an internet forum board.

4 Brigada
12-13-2007, 12:51 PM
On the grounds of
:xeno:

WolfMansDad
12-13-2007, 12:56 PM
On what grounds? This is a gun forum. We do have military members, LEO's, and armed civilians.

It would be very useful to know how they reacted during a self defense shooting. After reading about the member that got shot at it got me curious.

I would also like to know how much training really sticks in situations such as these. I would imagine my self just unloading the whole magazine in the general direction. I know I have to consider what is behind the target, shot placement, and such but in such a high stress situation would that really occur? When watching cop videos you can even see officer training go wrong.

I don't see why this question is not discussable, I am not asking "Who did a drive by and popped a cap in someone?"

Two reasons. First, pretty much everybody who has had to use a firearm in self defense doesn't want to talk about it. Second, this site gets a lot of attention, and we don't want something said here that could be misquoted or used to cast us in a bad light later. Calguns has been tremendously effective in advancing our right to keep and bear arms in California, and anything even hinting at bloodlust posted on the forum could compromise that.

It's not that such things shouldn't be talked about. It's that they shouldn't be talked about here.

rkt88edmo
12-13-2007, 12:59 PM
So, as no rules are being broken this thread isn't going to be deleted, closed or removed. Just throwing that out there.

As far as what training sticks, there is also a lot of evidence out there to read about, as well as anecdotes. "Training" isn't even a very good breakdown since there are so many variations in the type and frequency of training as well as the individual and their general experience. Some people do well under pressure and some fold, and for some they may have experiences with both in different situations.

Try a dedicated self defense forum or a forum that revolves around dedicated professional use of firearms and you may find more info, but I wouldn't suggest actually asking the question.

Dr. Peter Venkman
12-13-2007, 12:59 PM
Yes. I saw this guy creeping around the corner of my building so I slowly raised up my rifle's sight, put him in the middle of it, relaxed to ease tension off of my trigger finger, exhaled, and left-clicked.

Waingro
12-13-2007, 1:11 PM
Two reasons. First, pretty much everybody who has had to use a firearm in self defense doesn't want to talk about it. Second, this site gets a lot of attention, and we don't want something said here that could be misquoted or used to cast us in a bad light later. Calguns has been tremendously effective in advancing our right to keep and bear arms in California, and anything even hinting at bloodlust posted on the forum could compromise that.

It's not that such things shouldn't be talked about. It's that they shouldn't be talked about here.

This forum is obsessed with Zombies and Bear-People attacks. It is already cast in a negative light. This is a logical and useful question to be asked. It is not controversial either, such as many other topics such as illegal immigration. If you feel uncomfortable about your experience you are not required to post.

'Hinting at bloodlust' - would it make it better if I changed the name of the topic to "Has anyone here every shot a Zombie/Bear-People/Alien/all the crazy scenarios you guys come up with."?

Please - I asked a valid question at a valid place - if it makes you uncomfortable no one is forcing you to read it or post on it. One member in the first 30 min posted his brief experience.

ohsmily
12-13-2007, 1:16 PM
On what grounds? This is a gun forum. We do have military members, LEO's, and armed civilians.

It would be very useful to know how they reacted during a self defense shooting. After reading about the member that got shot at it got me curious.

I would also like to know how much training really sticks in situations such as these. I would imagine my self just unloading the whole magazine in the general direction. I know I have to consider what is behind the target, shot placement, and such but in such a high stress situation would that really occur? When watching cop videos you can even see officer training go wrong.

I don't see why this question is not discussable, I am not asking "Who did a drive by and popped a cap in someone?"

If you can't understand why people who have been involved in a real-life shoot probably don't want to discuss it with random people on the internet, then you have a stunted sense of empathy, tact, and sophistication. Perhaps you don't dispute that.
It is a traumatic, personal issue for those who have been involved. Sure, some people like to go bragging about their military kills or police involved shootings (some are BSing); BUT, most people who have really 'been-there-done-that' don't go bragging about their experience or blabbing about it in public. In fact, I would question the credibility of someone who posted here with enthusiasm about the time they had to shoot and perhaps take someone's life.

Don't you have any friends who have served in the military? Relatives who are VFWs? Buy them a beer and hear all you can take.

Waingro
12-13-2007, 1:20 PM
If you can't understand why people who have been involved in a real-life shoot probably don't want to discuss it with random people on the internet, then you have a stunted sense of empathy, tact, and sophistication. Perhaps you don't dispute that.
It is a traumatic, personal issue for those who have been involved. Sure, some people like to go bragging about their military kills or police involved shootings (some are BSing); BUT, most people who have really 'been-there-done-that' don't go bragging about their experience or blabbing about it in public.

I understand why people would not want to post because it might be very traumatic for them.

Simple solution: They do not have to post. No one is holding a gun to their head (no pun intended). No one is forcing you to post and if it upsets you just pretend like it is not here.

Please stop posting in this thread if you have nothing to contribute.

Thank You.

ohsmily
12-13-2007, 1:21 PM
Please stop posting in this thread if you have nothing to contribute.

Thank You.

No, THANK YOU. I already contributed twice prior to this post.

Kestryll
12-13-2007, 1:35 PM
What constitutes a 'contribution' is subjective.

While no one may want to answer the question, asking it is not forbidden nor wrong. If no one answers the questions sinks down in to obscurity.

What I find amusing is that there are 21 posts stating that no one will post in response to this question. I'm not entirely sure who is getting 'owned', for lack of a better word, by this thread but I suspect there is plenty to go around.

I'm getting a chuckle out of this if nothing else comes of it. ;)

Waingro
12-13-2007, 1:43 PM
What constitutes a 'contribution' is subjective.

While no one may want to answer the question, asking it is not forbidden nor wrong. If no one answers the questions sinks down in to obscurity.

What I find amusing is that there are 21 posts stating that no one will post in response to this question. I'm not entirely sure who is getting 'owned', for lack of a better word, by this thread but I suspect there is plenty to go around.

I'm getting a chuckle out of this if nothing else comes of it. ;)

If noting else comes of it it will still give us insight.

5968
12-13-2007, 1:46 PM
On what grounds? This is a gun forum. We do have military members, LEO's, and armed civilians.

It would be very useful to know how they reacted during a self defense shooting. After reading about the member that got shot at it got me curious.

I would also like to know how much training really sticks in situations such as these. I would imagine my self just unloading the whole magazine in the general direction. I know I have to consider what is behind the target, shot placement, and such but in such a high stress situation would that really occur? When watching cop videos you can even see officer training go wrong.

I don't see why this question is not discussable, I am not asking "Who did a drive by and popped a cap in someone?"

For those that have shot someone, it sticks with them. You do not forget about it by going to sleep. You remember it even after years have passed.
As far as training goes. If you half *** train then you are right, you probably will have about a 10% better chance of survival. If you truly train, and I don't mean a couple hundred repetitions, I am talking about thousands of repetitions and constantly go over scenarios in training and in your head (both). Ideally you will make your reaction to a situation a "reflex".

I am no way implying that I have ever been in a shooting either.

tgriffin
12-13-2007, 1:54 PM
I literally got shot at last night, and it was traumatizing, but I posted about it so I could work through some of the anxiety of the event here today with everyone, getting their thoughts and opinions about what happened.

I'm trying not to thread crap here, but if I had shot someone last night, no one on this board would know about it unless they worked for the Contra Costa Sheriffs. I can't think of anything more deeply personal and terrifying than being forced to take anothers life. I pray that I never have to, but I'm sure as hell going to be ready if I do.

CalNRA
12-13-2007, 1:59 PM
This forum is obsessed with Zombies and Bear-People attacks. It is already cast in a negative light. This is a logical and useful question to be asked. It is not controversial either, such as many other topics such as illegal immigration. If you feel uncomfortable about your experience you are not required to post.

the zombies.....well...you gotta not take it so literally.

and the topic of shooting people not controversial? I don't know what universe you hail from but I believe for many of us shooting humans is something we all love to avoid at all cost unles it's to preserve other lives. It's a VERY controversial topic

and good job putting illegal immigration and shooting people in the same post. I wonder when you were gonna pull that.



yes, it's much better to have the Brady trolls with evidence of how unhuman Calgunners are with discussion of shooting real people than a joke thread on "bear-calvary" :rolleyes:

BlackReef
12-13-2007, 2:00 PM
I was sitting at a Taco Bell and had a .22LR round blast through my back window and out my front. I distinctly remember a loud crack by my right ear and there was a lot of ringing. When I came to my senses and realized what happend, I just see the tail end of a red F-150 take off. Got out of my truck and realized they had shot TWO rounds through my windows. Called the Cops, ended up BS'ing with a LEO about College Football for awhile. Cool guy. To this day I have no idea why they tried to shoot me. But that round could have very easily got me in the back of my head. Just goes to show how quick life can actually end, because I had no idea it was coming.

I have pics of my vehicle after the incident I can post.

Be careful out there =)

QuarterBoreGunner
12-13-2007, 2:08 PM
*sigh* Ok, for me personally, what I feel when this topic comes up (as it almost invariably does on gun boards.) is almost akin to... embarrassment. Let me see if I can explain. I don't mind sharing what happened to me, especially if my experience can benefit others. But it's weird volunteering the info... it feels like bragging or internet tough guy posturing. I didn't go out and try and get myself into a self-defense situation, I didn't put myself into risky areas and hang out with sketchy people. It just happened. It's been a long time but 5968 is correct; it never ever goes away. I had to use a firearm in the defense of myself and two other people. A bad man shot at me and I shot back; my aim was better and I shot him twice. He almost died. But he didn't and now he's in prison for a very very long time. Everyone called me a 'hero' and I surely didn't feel like one. It was a horribly traumatic experience for everyone involved. I've never had PTSD but every officer that I've spoken to and friends that have been in combat all say the same thing: it's in you and you never know when it might come out.
So like I said, I don't mind sharing info that will help others, but it still feels strange to just step up and say "Yes, I shot a man that was trying to kill me and two others."

Bizcuits
12-13-2007, 2:09 PM
The most people I know of who've talked openly about the shootings they've been in are;

1) Liars.

and

2) People paid money to do so.

I have a few friends who have served in Iraq and Afghan. Only one of them ever talked of his trigger time. He was Marine and served during 2004 in Fallujah. It took many of weeks, to get him to speak of it.

While I do think this is an interesting topic. I don't think its the best for a forum / message board where people largely debate politics and are activists.

DedEye
12-13-2007, 2:25 PM
Yes, in my time as the Sergeant of a three-man Rapid Tactical Force at one of America’s largest indoor retail shopping areas I have been in large running gun battles with terrorists and gang members :p.


Also, it isn't Bear People. It's Bear Cavalry.

redneckshootist
12-13-2007, 2:29 PM
On the morning of October 6 2007 I was in the lassen national forest. I had never been through there before so I decided to do a road hunt and glass. I spoted this magnificent black tail buck about 200 yards out. I stopped the truck and walked in a little closer to try to get a better shot, I then placed my rifle savage 110 in 30-06 firmly agenced my shoulder and fired the shot. I was useing remington jacked soft point 150 grain ammo. The deer went down and is now in my freezer.:D:D
OH wait you asked about humans sorry I only hunt deer.:D

Timberwolf
12-13-2007, 2:51 PM
Objection - assumes facts not in evidence, can you rephrase?

aileron
12-13-2007, 3:57 PM
Yes. I saw this guy creeping around the corner of my building so I slowly raised up my rifle's sight, put him in the middle of it, relaxed to ease tension off of my trigger finger, exhaled, and left-clicked.

And missed.

5150-417
12-13-2007, 4:00 PM
last time i went to kern river i shot my cousin in the ars with my bb gun.

Moonclip
12-13-2007, 4:02 PM
I know someone who shot themselves by accident!

aileron
12-13-2007, 4:04 PM
Now, if we have a zombie epidemic in this country, guaranteed there will be tons of elaborate tall tales about it, with much chest beating going on. And of course the humorous tallest of tales about the one that got away.

Not to mention all will say. "GOD BLESS THE ZOMBIES! What would we of done with out them?" :rolleyes:

I can hear some of you getting giddy over the thought. Stop grinning about it already. :p

-hanko
12-13-2007, 4:08 PM
Yes, in my time as the Sergeant of a three-man Rapid Tactical Force at one of America’s largest indoor retail shopping areas I have been in large running gun battles with terrorists and gang members :p.


Also, it isn't Bear People. It's Bear Cavalry.
Thank God for ceramic trauma plates:D...nothing ruins your day like a few .308's in the back,

-hanko

RP1911
12-13-2007, 6:17 PM
A friend of mine was an MP and responded to a domestic violence call. The soldier was armed and threatening to kill his wife. He ended up taking the life of another soldier with his rifle.

Twenty years later it still torments him.

VeryCoolCat
12-13-2007, 6:26 PM
I'm not sure if I've ever shot someone... but I once shot at someone and I'm not sure if he was killed or not...

this foo tried to roll up on me and my krew so he starts flashin signs yo' and I be yellin GET STEPPIN FOO and he's showin his grill... he pulls out a gat... I start yellin for my homies to get down and they be 'OH **** SON!' and I git my glock40 from under the seat in my ride and was yelling "BRACE YO SELF *****" and start cappin at his ride....

to make an incredibly long story short... after I pulled the trigger, the young gentleman's vehicle stopped accelerating and hit a parked car. I contemplated checking out the vehicle but didn't continue and investigate the situation any further due to the PO-PO be coming and I ain't gettin in dat pen for cappin some ignant foo thinking he be all dat. :p

chiefcrash
12-13-2007, 6:38 PM
I've never shot anyone, but i came damn close...

Some smacktard broke into my house and was raiding my uncle's room (down stairs).

Since our neighbor frequently comes over, i didn't freak out. But it the noises coming from downstairs were odd enough for me to investigate with the shotgun...

When i get down the stairs, i see the smacktard coming down the hall directly in front of me, carrying three of my uncle's guitars. as soon as he saw me, he froze. For a split second, we both kinda stood there, shocked and bewildered. Then i started to bring the Mossberg up to the ready, and he bolted out the door...

called the police. two hours later, they show up and take my report. and that was the last of it...

NeoWeird
12-13-2007, 6:54 PM
I hurt someone's feelings once...

BRILLIANT! Why this response didn't get more attention, especially from the original poster, is beyond me...

To try and add to the discussion; I've never shot a man, unless a bathroom shower is a man, but I have taken more than my share of animal's lives. I don't mean to compare human life to animal life, or belittle anyone's experiences but please try to anaolgize the two and I hope my post will help both sides of the discussion.

All too often many people will claim that they would, without hesitation, shoot someone if they needed to. It's easy to think in your mind that if it came down to your mother/wife being killed and some bad guy being killed that the choice would be obvious and simple; while it may be obvious it won't always be simple. A good number of people, especially given proper time and reason to think forward to an event would probably be mentally able to point a gun at someone with the notion in their head that they MAY have to pull the trigger. There is probably also a pretty sizeable portion of people who would be able to calmly point a gun at someone and focus their thoughts on aiming and pulling the trigger. It's NOT the pulling the trigger that's hard, it's dealing with and coping with what happens afterwards.

I still remember one of the first animals I killed, it was a skunk on one of my family's ranches that was eating our livestock. It was easy to point my rifle at it and pull the trigger; it was actually realizing the destructive nature of guns and having to do the humane thing afterward that was hard.

Most people don't realize that shooting a living creature isn't a point, click, they're dead type of thing. It's more like a point, click, time halting, trauma, elapsed time frame, possibly repeating any number of the previous, and eventual death. Seeing a person dying, even if they are 'bad' is not a good thing nor is it something most people ever want to see. There is unfortunately all too many people who get swept up in any number of events, such as the military, who have the pre-notions that it will be point click over and afterwards they find it's far more difficult than it was ever lead on to be. Sadly they are almost always forced to endure the event after the fact; whether it is continued service, criminal investigations, etc. Most people who've been there just want to let it go and these types of topics don't help.

Now that's not to say this topic is wrong in anyway, but that is why people are being so 'abrasive' towards it; they just want to let it go but at the same time they want to help, because there are people on here who genuinely want to help people, so it's always like putting salt in their healing wounds.

Now on the other hand you are genuinely trying to get an informed answer. I wish I could give it to you but I've never been there so I can't give you my experiences. All I can say is I carry a gun on me at all time when I'm home and there have been a handfull of times where their imminent use was almost certain in my mind for a given moment. There has only been two times I can recall in those situations where I was absolutely calm and ready - all other times my adrenaline was going faster than I care to imagine and I forgot nearly all of my training.

That being said, training doesn't seem to stay with me in those types of sitations as much as I would like. However, I would not dare trust my 'instinct' or natural ability in those situations either. That means the only thing I can trust is what little training I remember; which is all the more reason to train until you can't train anymore and then do it again.

Also, if serious self defense is something you want to persue, and I think everyone should defend their lives but I believe it is my responsability as a prepared gun owner to actively protect others as well and not just when it's my hide on the line, then I'd get comfortable wtih true ballistics studies such as Foresnics studies and the like as well as, I hate to say it, hunting. Taking a life, even from an animal is an easy action but a difficult thing to do for someone who is not absolutely aware of what will happen. If you really want to be prepared for a follow up shot if it is needed, those are the only real ways to learn and no ammount of internet talk, or any talk for that matter, is really going to prepare you.

And I am sure you are wondering; no I don't think I am prepared to shoot another person, even if I have to, but I've already made up in my mind that I will if I have to. Will I when it comes down to it? If fortune is against me, only time will tell.

hitman13
12-13-2007, 7:12 PM
yes i have shot people, no you cant hear about it.

thanks for the sig though!!

JeffM
12-13-2007, 7:16 PM
Read On Killing by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman (http://www.amazon.com/Killing-Psychological-Cost-Learning-Society/dp/0316330116/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1197605588&sr=8-1)

That is all I have to contribute to this thread

CSACANNONEER
12-13-2007, 8:03 PM
Remember "Don't ask, Don't tell"?

otteray
12-13-2007, 8:31 PM
I shot myself in the hand scuba diving while at Catalina Island in 1967. Spearguns are pretty powerful.

I almost was shot in 1957, when I ran downrange while my dad was aiming at a target with his S&W Model 29.
Instead of being shot, I got a whoopin' I still remember vividly.

Bonecrusher
12-13-2007, 8:37 PM
It cracks me up how certain members reply to peoples topics:rolleyes: Lighten up a little;)

I've had a gun pulled on me twice, luckily, neither pulled the trigger:43:

When we were kids, I slapped my cousin around and he grabbed his little pump bb gun. I hid behind a tree and thought I was safe, I start yelling how im going to do this and do that once he drops the gun, well I guess the back of my right arm was sticking out from behind the tree. He shot me and I still have the bb under the skin:D I was screaming and jumping around like a little girl and he's yelling "Sorry, Im sorry. Dont tell my mom":D

tombinghamthegreat
12-13-2007, 8:40 PM
I seen my dad threaten to kill an intruter with a revolver but the guy ran off before my dad could fire the weapon. I wished my dad would have killed him, would have done more justice than the cops. The guy said he was doing to kill my family and my dog! I doubt he will break in again, he won't want an a**hole were his face is:43:.

ghettoshecky
12-13-2007, 8:52 PM
I've shot plenty of people. My brother my cousins, friends, family, etc.......... with airsoft of course. Geez I had to post this I can't believe there hasn't been an airsoft reply yet!

LECTRIKHED
12-13-2007, 9:11 PM
This forum is obsessed with Zombies and Bear-People attacks. It is already cast in a negative light. This is a logical and useful question to be asked. It is not controversial either, such as many other topics such as illegal immigration. If you feel uncomfortable about your experience you are not required to post.

'Hinting at bloodlust' - would it make it better if I changed the name of the topic to "Has anyone here every shot a Zombie/Bear-People/Alien/all the crazy scenarios you guys come up with."?

Please - I asked a valid question at a valid place - if it makes you uncomfortable no one is forcing you to read it or post on it. One member in the first 30 min posted his brief experience.

You don't get it do you? If you want actual knowledge that you can do something with go buy the book In the Gravest Extremes by Massad Ayoob. He kind of breaks it down. There's also plenty of books written by murderers if that what you are looking for. Try a book store.

Just asking the question straight out is kind of insensitive. You obviously don't get it. This is human life. I'm sure there are soldiers here who have killed in the line of duty. Asking soldiers or anyone else about them killing people is a social taboo. We never ask this question. Soldiers understand this more than anyone else. If they want to volunteer the information, we listen. We don't ask!

It sounds like you just want stories, and you are asking for tips on taking life. This is not socially acceptable. You are trying to justify your blood lust with the excuse that you want to know if training was helpful.

Even if someone kills a murderer, they're going to feel guilty. When they used to do firing squads all the guns except one were loaded with blanks. That way the executioners would not know if they took another life. There is a reason for this.

4 Brigada
12-13-2007, 9:48 PM
Deleted


Well there is some thought in that statement. What ever will be said here, read, or heard. Will serve him of nothing. when that moment comes he will either have a bowel movement in his pants then the other shooter will kill him or he will react and shoot the other guy. Guess when that moment comes the outcome will determine what worked or not

ohsmily
12-13-2007, 10:01 PM
Give me a break, people shoot each other all the time and you guys want to pretend like it never happens.

Yeah, you're right, people do shoot each other all the time. Yet, you don't notice those people coming out and talking all about their experience in this thread, DO YOU? Does that tell you anything? Or do you still think everyone is just a "p*****" for being sensitive about it.

If this guy wants to be a cop or marine, they will train him about shooting situations and the possible psychological effects of killing someone.

I would wager that not only have you never been in a real life/death shooting situation, but that you haven't even taken a CCW class. It behooves you to take a class and learn about the consequences of shooting someone, both the economic and emotional, not to mention the possible criminal liability.

oldrifle
12-13-2007, 10:14 PM
I would wager that not only have you never been in a real life/death shooting situation, but that you haven't even taken a CCW class. It behooves you to take a class and learn about the consequences of shooting someone, both the economic and emotional, not to mention the possible criminal liability.

No I haven't, but I'm not claiming to be some bad azz. Maybe somebody could explain it to him without emotional break down? I don't know... I just think there are plenty of cops out there who have shot people who aren't that worried about it. I believe there are people I could shoot and not think much of it because they're scumbags and should be shot. Could I shoot Bin Laden in the face and sleep pretty damn good at night? Hell yes, I would sleep well knowing that a-hole is dead and I helped!

Spiggy
12-13-2007, 10:30 PM
I shoot and get shot at all the time

It's a running hazard in working for an airsoft shop

However, in live weapons, I have drawn my shotgun on a group before; and it's a really funny story actually... It revolves around the value and importance of learning English as well as letting people know when painting is going to be done. Grammaton knows the story because he was the only one awake the day it happened

CalNRA
12-14-2007, 12:14 AM
No I haven't, but I'm not claiming to be some bad azz.


For craps sake, you guys are sounding like a bunch of pussies.

hmm. Righto

VAHEVAHE
12-14-2007, 12:20 AM
The guy asked a straight forward question and almost nobody is giving a straight forward answer. Give me a break, people shoot each other all the time and you guys want to pretend like it never happens. Maybe this guy has put himself in a position where he may have to shoot someone and he is honestly looking for advice... maybe the guy is going to be a cop or become a Marine. Have you thought of that?

For craps sake, you guys are sounding like a bunch of pussies. :eek:

+111

The guy just wants to know some stories and if you cannot say it because you feel sensitive about it then im sure he respects that. But don't call them pussies, thats not right.

oldrifle
12-14-2007, 7:49 AM
+111
The guy just wants to know some stories and if you cannot say it because you feel sensitive about it then im sure he respects that. But don't call them pussies, thats not right.

I humbly apologize. This was a case of PUI. I had imbibed copious amounts of Sam Adams prior to my posts last night. Sorry... :D

lawnrevenge
12-14-2007, 8:16 AM
I shot myself in the face once. We were out in Calico and I set up a cardboard target about 50 yards out to dial in the scope on my 10/22. Well I didn't realize that there was a big hard rock with a flat surface about 3 yards behind my target and about three shots later a hot lead fragment smacked my right cheek. It was maybe half the original mass. I froze, I realized what just happened and thought there might be a hole there, I was shaken up for a while realizing that had I done that with a large caliber I'd be dead. But there was just a welt for the rest of the day. I learned a valuable lesson that day about rule #4. So, no, I've never shot anyone but myself. But that is something I'll never forget and it still makes my stomach churn when I think about it. I couldn't imagine the feeling one would have after shooting someone else, or being shot by someone else, or taking a life.

dondo
12-14-2007, 8:35 AM
lock it up.

Dr. Peter Venkman
12-14-2007, 9:02 AM
lock it up.

No, you lock it up!

dondo
12-14-2007, 1:40 PM
No, you lock it up!
Why can't I remember the reference...wedding crashers?

Soldier415
12-14-2007, 1:52 PM
No, you lock it up!

In before the mods take your advice and "lock it up"

IBTL!!

milsurpshooter
12-14-2007, 3:28 PM
ibtl

milsurpshooter
12-14-2007, 3:45 PM
i got hit in the face with part of a bullet that bounced off a car rotor. i got cut pretty good but safety glasses caught most of the brunt. i never leave home without them now. always wear safety glasses"remember it can happen to you". also it happened so fast i didn't know what happened for a second, it just stung really bad. anyways thought i would share.

NRAhighpowershooter
12-14-2007, 4:09 PM
I have come close twice.. both cases gun was out of holster and safety clicked off (1911A1) first instance was during a backpacking trip gun had just cleared holster and situation difused, second instance gun was pointing at hostile person before situation ended with cops showing up and wacko individual taken into custody...

NSR500
12-14-2007, 4:45 PM
Kills
Total & Streak 4,542 / 26
Per Minute 0.261
Per Round 4.085

Deaths
Total & Streak 4,168 / 11
Per Minute 0.239
Per Round 3.748

Teamwork
Kill Assist 1,122
Heal 64
Revive 43
Support221
Repair 63
Driver 208

About 4500 kills as a Sniper, do you think that is enough?

Stormfeather
12-14-2007, 7:12 PM
IBTL, but then again, I dont think this hAs been too overboard in regards to bs or bogus responses.

Blue
12-14-2007, 7:17 PM
I had to clean someones earwax out of the end of the barrel on one of my Berettas once.

Also, IBTL :TFH: :D

gotgunz
12-14-2007, 7:24 PM
I no afraid (of course it was over 20 years ago) .

Shot him 3 times, missed 2 (total 5 shots) mom was pissed I ruined her & dads weekend getaway; dad was pissed I missed 2 of 5 fired. Guy lived to spend many more days in prison prior to being shot and killed by a CDC guard.

Not proud of it but you move on..... There? good enough?

N6ATF
12-14-2007, 11:17 PM
i never leave home without them now. always wear safety glasses"remember it can happen to you".

Same here.

supersonic
12-15-2007, 12:30 AM
I've never shot anyone, but i came damn close...

Some smacktard broke into my house and was raiding my uncle's room (down stairs).

Since our neighbor frequently comes over, i didn't freak out. But it the noises coming from downstairs were odd enough for me to investigate with the shotgun...

When i get down the stairs, i see the smacktard coming down the hall directly in front of me, carrying three of my uncle's guitars. as soon as he saw me, he froze. For a split second, we both kinda stood there, shocked and bewildered. Then i started to bring the Mossberg up to the ready, and he bolted out the door...

called the police. two hours later, they show up and take my report. and that was the last of it...

PLEASE tell me he left behind the guitars!!! (Hopefully he set them down on a soft surface, veeery carefully!!)You probably think I'm kidding. Oh, IBTL!!!

adamsreeftank
12-15-2007, 4:01 AM
The closest I've ever come to a deadly encounter was when a friend had an accidental discharge behind the firing line. My years of training definitely came into play as I stood there like an idiot trying to figure out if I hand any new holes where they didn't belong. Luckily I lived to tell the story.:D

Oh and IBTL!

Forever-A-Soldier
12-15-2007, 9:05 AM
PM Sent.

F.A.S. Out

1911su16b870
12-15-2007, 9:36 AM
IBTL, The taking of another human life is very disturbing subject for the 99%+ of the non-sociopathic population.

FWIW, LEO involved shooting statistics, 1/3 are ok, 1/3 have some sort of short term post trauma, the last 1/3 never are the same after (permanent post traumatic stress disorder).

E Pluribus Unum
12-15-2007, 9:50 AM
X-Box Live:

The only place in the universe where it is morally acceptable for a 30-year-old man to cuss out, belittle, yell, insult and chastise a 13 year old boy he's never met.

Waingro
12-15-2007, 11:46 AM
From this thread I can make the assumptions that almost 90% of the people on this forum are idiots. I have gotten several PM's from serious members expressing their apologizes for most of your behaver and sharing their stories.

Are you all a bunch of slack jawed edited ~rkt88edmo or what? You want to talk about what caliber types are more likely to expand the most when they hit human flesh - but when someone asks 'Have you have shot anyone?' your face turns white with horror?

Yeah - whoever says it is a controversial subject is wrong, I think we all believe that shooting in self defense is okay (I never mentioned taking another humans life). This is a very sensitive subject for many and if you don't want to participate in it then thats just fine with me and everyone else.

For every single poster that made a reply to this topic in a jokingly way should be ashamed of themselves. This is not a joke.

This thread should be closed due to the embarrassment that most members should have.

lawnrevenge
12-15-2007, 12:22 PM
From this thread I can make the assumptions that almost 90% of the people on this forum are idiots.
:stupid:
Are you all a bunch of slack jawed edited ~rkt88edmo or what?
:hide: oh no he found out our secret!
For every single poster that made a reply to this topic in a jokingly way should be ashamed of themselves. This is not a joke.

:ban:

Lighten up. You asked a question that is very taboo. I'm surprised you got any valid responses. God forbid we have some fun. I forgot the interweb is for serious business only-my bad.

4 Brigada
12-15-2007, 12:43 PM
Waingro? Who are you, are you my buddy, my long lost pal. Did we spend time together in service. Are you my pastor/confesor? My doctor? Do I owe you money? I made the mistake to ask a coworker (at my first job) how much do you make? He asked are you with the IRS? I laughed and said no, he replied IT IS NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. DO YOU GET IT NOW or do you need a bigger picture. I will apologize to the other members, because I feel ashamed that a fellow member would insult them that way.


:ban:

Waingro
12-15-2007, 12:45 PM
Waingro? Who are you, are you my buddy, my long lost pal. Did we spend time together in service. Are you my pastor/confesor? My doctor? Do I owe you money? I made the mistake to ask a coworker (at my first job) how much do you make? He asked are you with the IRS? I laughed and said no, he replied IT IS NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. DO YOU GET IT NOW or do you need a bigger picture. I will apologize to the other members, because I feel ashamed that a fellow member would insult them that way.


:ban:

Hey genius - do you know that I did not ask a single person yet asked a community? They were all free to share or not to share? Your part of the 90%.

rkt88edmo
12-15-2007, 12:48 PM
Stop the personal attacks and profanity please.

4 Brigada
12-15-2007, 12:52 PM
Hey genius, you are the one insulting people cause of the answers your getting. DUH!!! If you dont like the answer dont ask the questions. Call me in about 40 years when you mature enough to have a conversation with me.

Waingro
12-15-2007, 12:54 PM
Hey genius, you are the one insulting people cause of the answers your getting. DUH!!! If you dont like the answer dont ask the questions. Call me in about 40 years when you mature enough to have a conversation with me.

I'm 32.

supersonic
12-15-2007, 1:15 PM
Not for nothin', but does anyone here realize the movie character OP decided on for his CalGuns name? "WAINGRO" was a sociopath; pathetic; rat;straight-up cold-blooded murderer; rapist; necrophiliac; etc. Basically one of the worst specimens of subhuman scum EVER portrayed on screen. Note that I am simply describing the exact nature of a fictional character, not attacking anyone personally. That being said, I think it speaks volumes, IMHO, about a person that would choose such a "character's" moniker for a forum "handle" in the first place, and then go on to outright INSULT "90%" OF THE CALGUNS COMMUNITY simply because we have mixed feelings about a very sensitive & controversial question that HE brought to the table. For anyone that knows the movie "HEAT" as well as I do, I think his avatar is very prophetic::ban:
Scott

-hanko
12-15-2007, 1:53 PM
Not for nothin', but does anyone here realize the movie character OP decided on for his CalGuns name? "WAINGRO" was a sociopath; pathetic; rat;straight-up cold-blooded murderer; rapist; necrophiliac; etc. Basically one of the worst specimens of subhuman scum EVER portrayed on screen. Note that I am simply describing the exact nature of a fictional character, not attacking anyone personally. That being said, I think it speaks volumes, IMHO, about a person that would choose such a "character's" moniker for a forum "handle" in the first place, and then go on to outright INSULT "90%" OF THE CALGUNS COMMUNITY simply because we have mixed feelings about a very sensitive & controversial question that HE brought to the table. For anyone that knows the movie "HEAT" as well as I do, I think his avatar is very prophetic::ban:
Scott
:rolleyes:
This is the internet. The calguns community has encouraged op by responding to the first post. OP likes to debate online, perhaps because it's easier than face-to-face. If he continues to set the hook with each response, the argument will continue.:eek:

-hanko

Waingro
12-15-2007, 3:12 PM
Not for nothin', but does anyone here realize the movie character OP decided on for his CalGuns name? "WAINGRO" was a sociopath; pathetic; rat;straight-up cold-blooded murderer; rapist; necrophiliac; etc. Basically one of the worst specimens of subhuman scum EVER portrayed on screen. Note that I am simply describing the exact nature of a fictional character, not attacking anyone personally. That being said, I think it speaks volumes, IMHO, about a person that would choose such a "character's" moniker for a forum "handle" in the first place, and then go on to outright INSULT "90%" OF THE CALGUNS COMMUNITY simply because we have mixed feelings about a very sensitive & controversial question that HE brought to the table. For anyone that knows the movie "HEAT" as well as I do, I think his avatar is very prophetic::ban:
Scott

I bear a very strong resemblance to the character in the movie, my construction crew calls me Waingro for fun. Hence the name. There is a picture of me on here somewhere.

However I do apologize for my previous comments - I posted a logical thread that could help my self, and others in a self defense situation and there is 9 pages of sarcasm, jokes, and debates. I have gotten PM's from members apologizing for the behavior of people that posted in this thread. I am not the debating type - I simply wanted to better my self defense skills, given all the things you guys speak of such as shot placement, remaining calm, etc. I was wondering if certain people could shed some light on the real life encounters they had.

I retract my statement that 90% of the forum are idiots. 90% of the people who posted off-topic, sarcastic, and joking posts are idiots.

This might be a sensitive subject for some, I nor anyone else is twisting your wrist to post in or even look at this thread.

I know I can kill a piece of paper with ear muffs and shooting glasses on. I want to know if there is anything else I should practice to protect my self and my disabled wife.

edit: This thread should be closed since it accomplished absolutely nothing but hostility towards members.

4 Brigada
12-15-2007, 3:29 PM
I want to know if there is anything else I should practice to protect my self and my disabled wife.


With that you get help,

1, Call the cops/avoid having to shoot, 2 Situational awareness, 3 Sight picture, 4 Breathing, 5 Trigger control and 6 Follow thru.

Waingro
12-15-2007, 3:38 PM
With that you get help,

1, Call the cops/avoid having to shoot, 2 Situational awareness, 3 Sight picture, 4 Breathing, 5 Trigger control and 6 Follow thru.

THANK YOU SIR! I would love to hear more tips like this, different peoples reactions and adrenaline levels, etc. You just dropped it down to 85%!

lawnrevenge
12-15-2007, 5:58 PM
I want to know if there is anything else I should practice to protect my self and my disabled wife.

Well if you can put my joking aside (though I am part of the idiot brigade here:D ) This is a much more direct question that will hopefully get more direct answers and I'd like to help. I think that's the best method here (and on most forums), ask very direct questions instead of broad ones. The first question you posted is taboo and so asking it broadly gets the response you disliked.

IMHO
Training is everything. It helps you know what to do and helps to be more aware of what you can do.

Have you taken any self defense classes or shooting classes? Also a good idea is to think of scenarios at home and work and in the car where you might need to respond in several ways. Where a crook might break in, where you phones and guns are. Does your wife know what to do in these situations?

Don't think about how you'll feel about shooting in self defense. If you are worried about anything more than protecting loved ones and yourself it will become a disability should a situation ever arise.

Of course this is all just my opinion, but it's things I've learned and I hope it helps.

Waingro
12-15-2007, 6:23 PM
Well if you can put my joking aside (though I am part of the idiot brigade here:D ) This is a much more direct question that will hopefully get more direct answers and I'd like to help. I think that's the best method here (and on most forums), ask very direct questions instead of broad ones. The first question you posted is taboo and so asking it broadly gets the response you disliked.

IMHO
Training is everything. It helps you know what to do and helps to be more aware of what you can do.

Have you taken any self defense classes or shooting classes? Also a good idea is to think of scenarios at home and work and in the car where you might need to respond in several ways. Where a crook might break in, where you phones and guns are. Does your wife know what to do in these situations?

Don't think about how you'll feel about shooting in self defense. If you are worried about anything more than protecting loved ones and yourself it will become a disability should a situation ever arise.

Of course this is all just my opinion, but it's things I've learned and I hope it helps.

I took a self defense class. I have a disabled wife (meaning running is out of the question). I have seen police shootings before and I notice that they only retain around 10% of their training when shooting in self defense (and they are wearing vests).

I also have a Utah CCW and I am trying to get an LA CCW (I hear it is almost impossible). But my first question still stands. Does your training kick in or is it all adrenaline and you just empty the mag? I would really like to know what to expect given if the situation ever arises.

Will my hands be steady enough to place the shots correctly let alone hold a pistol? Things of that sort - that is why I asked people that have actually gone though this experience. At the range I can put 25 rounds center mass no problem.

I take offense to some of the people who posted here due to the fact that I did ask a valid question and was met with sarcasm and some people were joking around about a very serious subject. I am here to learn about firearms, laws, and how to defend my loved ones (hell you guys are making me want to build an AR now). That is nothing to joke around about or be sarcastic. If you don't have anything to contribute then don't post.

redneckshootist
12-15-2007, 6:34 PM
I took a self defense class. I have a disabled wife (meaning running is out of the question). I have seen police shootings before and I notice that they only retain around 10% of their training when shooting in self defense (and they are wearing vests).

I also have a Utah CCW and I am trying to get an LA CCW (I hear it is almost impossible). But my first question still stands. Does your training kick in or is it all adrenaline and you just empty the mag? I would really like to know what to expect given if the situation ever arises.

Will my hands be steady enough to place the shots correctly let alone hold a pistol? Things of that sort - that is why I asked people that have actually gone though this experience. At the range I can put 25 rounds center mass no problem.

I take offense to some of the people who posted here due to the fact that I did ask a valid question and was met with sarcasm and some people were joking around about a very serious subject. I am here to learn about firearms, laws, and how to defend my loved ones (hell you guys are making me want to build an AR now). That is nothing to joke around about or be sarcastic. If you don't have anything to contribute then don't post.

good job on taking the self defence class that is a start. In my opion (I too am one of the ones that posted some sarcasim) take up hunting, take up tactical pistol, tactial rifle, and tactical shotgun. That kind of competion is not only fun but you will learn a lot when it come to defencive/combat shooting. Also matial arts will help too, some are a joke so choose wisely:D. Pratice different sinerios too. I have been in more than one defencive encounter I dont talk much about them especily online but if you have enough training some stuff comes as a second nature.

lawnrevenge
12-15-2007, 8:13 PM
Something I did as a boy scout in Calico has been useful (meaning now when I go there to shoot we do the same thing...

We make a pistol course more or less, nothing too extensive, we just use a high wall canyon with soft sides and clays. you make several shots that are from certain points, distance, angles, close. Always be safe (meaning only soft soil and obey 4 rules) Basically you are timed while going to each point and taking a shot at the clay, holstering (for safety) and running to the next. I can't shoot for snot after the first few shots, adrenaline and my out of shape self contribute to that. But I'm getting better. Once you can in two mags do my 10 target course (that's 16 shots, not 66) you will feel better about your abilities. I've thought about doing something more elaborate but don't have the money or place to do it. Maybe something that shoots (paint balls) back and so you must not only shoot targets but from concealment or cover. The point is that shooting at the range at paper is a great way to have fun and get good trigger time, but to shoot in a situation that will involve adrenaline and possibly physical exertion (running, fighting, just the fact that you're in a fight) you should train for it. That's why our military trains in the deserts out here before going to the sandbox. It's not war but the closer you get to reality the easier reality will be to handle.

I'm not disabled but I do have a back condition that when I'm not medicated makes running or hell, walking or getting out of a chair, difficult. I doubt I could flee, and if not armed most would have an advantage against me. So I plan accordingly and I figure that if I can do stuff (like my calico pistol course) I stand a better chance of not losing if I ever need to defend myself or others.

dondo
12-15-2007, 9:49 PM
I took a self defense class. I have a disabled wife (meaning running is out of the question). I have seen police shootings before and I notice that they only retain around 10% of their training when shooting in self defense (and they are wearing vests).

I also have a Utah CCW and I am trying to get an LA CCW (I hear it is almost impossible). But my first question still stands. Does your training kick in or is it all adrenaline and you just empty the mag? I would really like to know what to expect given if the situation ever arises.

Will my hands be steady enough to place the shots correctly let alone hold a pistol? Things of that sort - that is why I asked people that have actually gone though this experience. At the range I can put 25 rounds center mass no problem.

I take offense to some of the people who posted here due to the fact that I did ask a valid question and was met with sarcasm and some people were joking around about a very serious subject. I am here to learn about firearms, laws, and how to defend my loved ones (hell you guys are making me want to build an AR now). That is nothing to joke around about or be sarcastic. If you don't have anything to contribute then don't post.

You shouldn't let posts bother you. Your original question obviously struck people the wrong way. Just sift through the bullsh*t until you find the answer your looking for. Sometimes people write funny stuff, sometimes helpful, sometimes ignorant. It is the internet after all. Doesn't really make anybody an idiot or a slack jawwed !@#$%^. I have read through your prior posts and you are a pretty straight shooter and a to the point guy it seems. Others are a bit more colorful. Sometimes bashing or posting nonsense is fun. Don't let it offend you.

jfk
12-15-2007, 10:11 PM
Tomorrow (16th) will be fifteen years as an LEO for me. I went to the academey with 10+ guys. Out of our group, the first shooting occured two months out of the academy. One of our classmates killed a burglar who attack him on an alarm call.

Another one from our group shot and killed a guy who pointed a pistol at his partner. They responded to a shots fired call and the suspect pointed a gun at them.

A third member of our group was involved in a shooting after a car chase. The driver exited the car and pointed a sawed off shotgun at the officers.

A fourth guy in our group was involved in two shootings. Fortunately for the suspects this officer missed them.


I almost had to shoot a battery suspect during my second month in training. The suspect fled the scene after beating up his girlfriend. She told us he took off on foot less than 1-2 minutes before we arrived. She showed us a magazine that belonged to the gun. I told my training officer the magazine was a 30 rd. AK47 mag. While searching the area, I encountered the suspect who came out from behind a shed. Luckily I already had my gun drawn on this guy. The suspect had his hands behind his back and would not comply to my commands. The suspect continued to walk towards me with his hands behind his back. I was stuck in a gated area and the homeowner was trying to unlock the gate for me. The suspect finally placed his hands up and I heard something fall to the ground. My training officer hoped the fence and cuffed the guy up. It turns out his AK47 was behind his back and it was loaded and ready to fire. The suspect was high on meth and had been awake for four days and hallucenating. That was the closet time I ever had to shoot someone. I don't think shooting someone is something to brag about but if that is needed to go home alive to my family, so be it.

LECTRIKHED
12-15-2007, 10:19 PM
I like how he chose not to respond to my post.

Go pickup a Massad Ayoob book. Don't ask these questions on a forum and go psycho when people point out that your question is in bad taste. We expect this stuff from 15 year olds, but not grown adults. Maybe there is a reason that people think you are a complete tool of the Brady Campaign. You are a Brady wet dream.

It is clear by your posts that you are dying for the opportunity to shoot someone and you drool over details about real life violence. Your blood lust is immature and disturbing. People don't choose nicknames based solely on looks. Since you choose to refer to yourself by the same name as a deranged killer, it says something about your personality.

I am genuinely recommending that you seek therapy. You may improve your life and those around you. Further more you will likely save a life of the poor soul that you shoot in the head when they walk across your lawn. Seriously, you need to seek therapy. This is not an insult or jab at you. They can help improve your life.

I am 100% sure that you will shoot someone if you do not receive therapy. It is clear you want to shoot someone. I hope that if you do, the police will use this post against you and send you to jail for murder. It will be murder, no matter what the circumstances. Not all situations where shooting is justified, does one actually need to take another's life. In reality in most of these situations, shooting can be avoided. There is a reason that some people are charged for murder in what can be a defensive type situations. This is it.

I hope that you get help before taking another's life.
I hope that you leave the Calguns community and stop giving the Brady Campaign fuel for their fire.
I hope that you stop posting these socially inappropriate and offensive posts.
I hope that my blood pressure does not continue to rise when I read these posts.

I for one will be leaving the Calguns community if it gets taken over by blood lusting individuals.

Please, seek therapy.

ivanimal
12-15-2007, 10:31 PM
Hey genius - do you know that I did not ask a single person yet asked a community? They were all free to share or not to share? Your part of the 90%.

I am sure this question is important to you. I am sorry we did not answer and satisfy your curiosity. However this is a public forum and it is privately owned and moderated. Your attitude will not be tolerated here. Take your bad attitude away from here, or it will be taken from here. The posts here are not out of line. The question in my opinion is.
I have had conversations with individuals that have had to use a firearm or whatever to take a life in self defense. After many years and much trust they may talk to someone about it. I feel honored that they trusted me to share their experiences. Why on earth would you think that that kind of confidence would or should be shared here, and with you? Why are you angry that no one wants to talk about it?

If you call one more person here a name or imply their IQ is not up to yours, you will be asked to leave. Please read the forum rules if you need a refresher.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=38471
Pay close attention to "C".

bwiese
12-15-2007, 10:45 PM
While the orig poster may have had some legit questions he appears to me to move on toward 'begging the question' to stir controversy at best, at worst dunno what he's trying to do.

Given this is a public forum being watched by non-/antigunners post like this get the "gunnies have bloodlust" themes going that they can trot out to local media.

I also note your username is "Waingro", the psychopathidiot murderer in Heat that even the "pro" crooks didn't respect - and whose actions led to their demise.

elSquid
12-15-2007, 11:24 PM
I also have a Utah CCW and I am trying to get an LA CCW (I hear it is almost impossible). But my first question still stands. Does your training kick in or is it all adrenaline and you just empty the mag? I would really like to know what to expect given if the situation ever arises.

Will my hands be steady enough to place the shots correctly let alone hold a pistol? Things of that sort - that is why I asked people that have actually gone though this experience. At the range I can put 25 rounds center mass no problem.


FWIW. This is worth the 12 bucks:

http://www.amazon.com/Guns-Bullets-Gunfights-Modern-Day-Gunfighter/dp/0873648773\

Cirillo was in several gunfights as a member of the NYPD stakeout squad. He's very matter of fact and humble about his experiences; no chest thumping in this book.

http://www.americanhandgunner.com/CAF0108.html

-- Michael

QuarterBoreGunner
12-15-2007, 11:29 PM
Also this one. I can't say it's a "good" read, but certainly worthwhile:
On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society (http://www.amazon.com/Killing-Psychological-Cost-Learning-Society/dp/0316330116/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1197793509&sr=1-1)

Waingro
12-16-2007, 1:51 AM
I like how he chose not to respond to my post.

Go pickup a Massad Ayoob book. Don't ask these questions on a forum and go psycho when people point out that your question is in bad taste. We expect this stuff from 15 year olds, but not grown adults. Maybe there is a reason that people think you are a complete tool of the Brady Campaign. You are a Brady wet dream.

It is clear by your posts that you are dying for the opportunity to shoot someone and you drool over details about real life violence. Your blood lust is immature and disturbing. People don't choose nicknames based solely on looks. Since you choose to refer to yourself by the same name as a deranged killer, it says something about your personality.

I am genuinely recommending that you seek therapy. You may improve your life and those around you. Further more you will likely save a life of the poor soul that you shoot in the head when they walk across your lawn. Seriously, you need to seek therapy. This is not an insult or jab at you. They can help improve your life.

I am 100% sure that you will shoot someone if you do not receive therapy. It is clear you want to shoot someone. I hope that if you do, the police will use this post against you and send you to jail for murder. It will be murder, no matter what the circumstances. Not all situations where shooting is justified, does one actually need to take another's life. In reality in most of these situations, shooting can be avoided. There is a reason that some people are charged for murder in what can be a defensive type situations. This is it.

I hope that you get help before taking another's life.
I hope that you leave the Calguns community and stop giving the Brady Campaign fuel for their fire.
I hope that you stop posting these socially inappropriate and offensive posts.
I hope that my blood pressure does not continue to rise when I read these posts.

I for one will be leaving the Calguns community if it gets taken over by blood lusting individuals.

Please, seek therapy.

Picture attached above is me. I get asked for autographs at Starbucks weekly when I grow out my hair and beard. I am 6'0 and look pretty much identical to the character. It is a nickname and a joke among my co-workers and buddies.

My wife was recently in a very bad car accident - she was in the hospital for 3 weeks. She is still going through rehabilitation. She is currently in a wheel chair.

While my wife was in the hospital someone broke into my neighbors house, raped the wife and beat the husband so badly he was in a coma for 3 days. I do not make much money - I cannot afford to live in nice areas, especially with current real estate (I do construction). Plus the fact that my wife cannot work anymore and her medical bills.

My wife and I both refuse to leave California, we both grew up here and we like it. Yet I want to be ready god forbid anyone tries to harm my wife or I.

You don't know who I am. I am a very nice person and have never shot a firearm until I took out my shotgun I got years and years ago after the robbery next door. I have no wish to do anyone harm. I posted this because I am afraid I will not be able to protect my wife due to the fear shooting someone. (We also are very religious, Roman Catholic)

I do not even hunt or have a desire to hunt - your accusations are very incorrect and without any backing.

So unless by 'blood lust' you mean changing my wives bandages after her next surgery then I doubt I need therapy.

An apology would be nice.

Vince.

One more thing: I never ever said the word kill. I said shoot. Meaning stop. Not shoot meaning get an AK-47 and unload. I am 100% sure that you will make more mistakes if you do not take reading classes.

Second thing: Thank you for your recommendations on the books.

Third thing: I don't have a lawn.

Forth and final edit: Maybe now you know why I took this very seriously.

Waingro
12-16-2007, 2:20 AM
I am sure this question is important to you. I am sorry we did not answer and satisfy your curiosity. However this is a public forum and it is privately owned and moderated. Your attitude will not be tolerated here. Take your bad attitude away from here, or it will be taken from here. The posts here are not out of line. The question in my opinion is.
I have had conversations with individuals that have had to use a firearm or whatever to take a life in self defense. After many years and much trust they may talk to someone about it. I feel honored that they trusted me to share their experiences. Why on earth would you think that that kind of confidence would or should be shared here, and with you? Why are you angry that no one wants to talk about it?

If you call one more person here a name or imply their IQ is not up to yours, you will be asked to leave. Please read the forum rules if you need a refresher.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=38471
Pay close attention to "C".

1) I bet that the IQ's of most of the members here are much higher then mine (never took the test), yet when I am asked a question either on the internet or in person I give a response to that question.

2) I am not angry that no one will share their experiences with me, I am upset that people have turned a very serious and fearful matter in my life into sarcasm and a joke. If there were 0 responses in this thread I would not be upset at all.

Right now is a very upsetting time in my life and my wives lives - given the information I have shared I believe my reactions to the other posters comments were justified.

I read C and I assume you are speaking about the 'clean and civil' clause. The way I look at it; if I ask a question and 90% of the posters are giving sarcastic, joking, or idiotic responses to a VERY serious matter that makes them idiots.

But for some reason I have a feeling you guys have had some bad apples in here before and you are cautious and not very welcoming of newcomers. So I understand your concern and after my previous post I do not believe that anyone else will be joking about this matter anymore.

CalNRA
12-16-2007, 3:48 AM
1) I bet that the IQ's of most of the members here are much higher then mine (never took the test), yet when I am asked a question either on the internet or in person I give a response to that question.

2) I am not angry that no one will share their experiences with me, I am upset that people have turned a very serious and fearful matter in my life into sarcasm and a joke. If there were 0 responses in this thread I would not be upset at all.

Right now is a very upsetting time in my life and my wives lives - given the information I have shared I believe my reactions to the other posters comments were justified.

I read C and I assume you are speaking about the 'clean and civil' clause. The way I look at it; if I ask a question and 90% of the posters are giving sarcastic, joking, or idiotic responses to a VERY serious matter that makes them idiots.

But for some reason I have a feeling you guys have had some bad apples in here before and you are cautious and not very welcoming of newcomers. So I understand your concern and after my previous post I do not believe that anyone else will be joking about this matter anymore.

if you think 90% of posts on this thread is idiotic, I suggest you go back and read the thread. Many people, including myself, have offered explanation on why asking about real life shootings here is not, let's say, the best idea ever.

This website is open for ALL to see. IE, if we have a thread on killing people on a gun board started by a guy named "Waingro"(thanks Bill for pointing that out) and people jump in to discuss, the media would have a field day with this. You said nothing about a disabled wife, hard times, etc at first. When a new guy joins a gun board and ask "any one here kill anyone?" it raises a few eye brows, to put it mildly. That combined with what I saw in the "why 'military' gun" thread, I would venture to say that I did/do not exclude the possibility that you are/were soliciting comments with intentionally chosen controversial topics in a much-scrutinized forum in a very anti-gun state under the watchful eye of government agencies, press and individuals with certain agendas. You can connect the dots, I'm sure.

If this is a difficult time for you and your wife, while I do not aim to interfere with your freedom of speech, soliciting information on shooting on the internet may not be the most productive use of your time. Again, it is just a comment and in no way an attempt to interfere with your freedom of speech.

supersonic
12-16-2007, 5:25 AM
[QUOTE=CalNRA;884543]i

This website is open for ALL to see. IE, if we have a thread on killing people on a gun board started by a guy named "Waingro"(thanks Bill for pointing that out)


HEY!!!!! I WAS THE FIRST ONE TO POINT THAT OUT!!!! I WILL NOT LET BILL TAKE CREDIT FOR MY MASTER ACHIEVEMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!:p:rofl2:

Waingro
12-16-2007, 8:09 AM
if you think 90% of posts on this thread is idiotic, I suggest you go back and read the thread. Many people, including myself, have offered explanation on why asking about real life shootings here is not, let's say, the best idea ever.

This website is open for ALL to see. IE, if we have a thread on killing people on a gun board started by a guy named "Waingro"(thanks Bill for pointing that out) and people jump in to discuss, the media would have a field day with this. You said nothing about a disabled wife, hard times, etc at first. When a new guy joins a gun board and ask "any one here kill anyone?" it raises a few eye brows, to put it mildly. That combined with what I saw in the "why 'military' gun" thread, I would venture to say that I did/do not exclude the possibility that you are/were soliciting comments with intentionally chosen controversial topics in a much-scrutinized forum in a very anti-gun state under the watchful eye of government agencies, press and individuals with certain agendas. You can connect the dots, I'm sure.

If this is a difficult time for you and your wife, while I do not aim to interfere with your freedom of speech, soliciting information on shooting on the internet may not be the most productive use of your time. Again, it is just a comment and in no way an attempt to interfere with your freedom of speech.

I look like the character from the film. And when did I ever mention killing people? I said self defense shooting. Not self defense killing.:confused:

Reminder: This thread was not titled "Have you ever killed anyone?" it was "Have you ever shot anyone?" I don't know where you guys are getting your reading comprehension skills from but I never implied death in any way, look though all the posts I made.

M. Sage
12-16-2007, 3:11 PM
To the antis, shooting someone = killing someone.

I agree with the people above: training, training, training. Competition like IDPA or a tactical handgun shoot (Chabot here in the Bay Area has one) helps you get more comfortable with your gear in a "high-stress, low-impact" environment. PPC would probably be good "familiarization" for you.

IPSC, not so much. :p

Even an airsoft version of your chosen arm/arms can allow you to practice draw, present and shoot in your garage, for example.

You mentioned that police tend to remember only about 10% of their training. I'd say it's a bit more, but their training honestly kind of sucks, and there isn't enough of it.

Never shot anybody. Hope not to. But I'm very sure I could if it came down to it.

adamsreeftank
12-16-2007, 3:47 PM
Wasn't that role played by Ed Norton? Personally, I don't see the resemblance.

FWIW, I think there was a study of officer involved shootings that determined that officers who practiced shooting at silhouette targets were more likely to fire their weapon at an assailant than officers who practiced shooting at bullseyes.

M. Sage
12-16-2007, 3:50 PM
Wasn't that role played by Ed Norton? Personally, I don't see the resemblance.

Kevin Gage.

1911su16b870
12-16-2007, 4:06 PM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/65/Waingro.jpg/200px-Waingro.jpg

The SoCal Gunner
12-16-2007, 4:53 PM
Damn, can't all of you give the guy a break? If this thread shouldn't be open then maybe the mods should close it instead of allowing all this hoopla to go on while also jumping in. What ever happened to mods PMing the OP? It was a legitimate question.

I have a sister who is paralyzed from the waist down and is really weak because of her condition. When she is home alone she is bed ridden and would not be able to protect herself if a break in were to occur. I did take her shooting with me when she was still able to walk and was basically healthy about a year and a half ago so she has some experience. She has asked me a few times to take her to buy a gun for protection ever she became paralyzed.

Sorry I can't add any helpful information but I know how you feel. Also, since when did our user name dictate who we are?

Solidmch
12-16-2007, 5:20 PM
I know someone who shot themselves by accident!

Was it hand to gland combat?:willy_nilly:

ivanimal
12-16-2007, 5:23 PM
Had the OP stated the facts before we had to draw our own conclusions we would have been sympathetic. Coming in after the fact only looks like an effort to prove a point and make people feel bad. I for one did not say anything I regret. I am sorry for your situation we are not heartless. You can do a search and see how the populous here has come to the aid of people in need, and we answer questions honestly.

There will always be sarcasm, this is the internet.

Now if you state what you want and why you want it we might be able to help you. I personally have never been in that situation. I doubt there would be any hesitation if I was cornered. I just don't know. There are however a lot of deer that found out my aim is true.

gn3hz3ku1*
12-16-2007, 6:07 PM
waingo... i have spoken to many people who have shot many many people ( and no i never asked.) and yes they all said the same thing. at that moment its all training. and these guys have gone thru training thousands of times... the problem is thinking about what happened afterwards when they are back home and it hits them... and they deal with it differently

a good friend/mentor told me. **** it man all i wanted to do with bring my boys home and i had to do what i had to do. **** all the politics **** all the politicians ...in the field its just me and the guys and i failed to bring them all home and that will always be with me rest of my life...

another guy sees the faces every single night before he sleeps... so yes most guys who have shot someone do not really like to talk about it esp on a public forum.

chiefcrash
12-16-2007, 9:55 PM
PLEASE tell me he left behind the guitars!!! (Hopefully he set them down on a soft surface, veeery carefully!!)You probably think I'm kidding. Oh, IBTL!!!

he dropped them. But they were in hard cases, so they didn't get hurt...

Waingro
12-16-2007, 10:47 PM
Had the OP stated the facts before we had to draw our own conclusions we would have been sympathetic. Coming in after the fact only looks like an effort to prove a point and make people feel bad. I for one did not say anything I regret. I am sorry for your situation we are not heartless. You can do a search and see how the populous here has come to the aid of people in need, and we answer questions honestly.

There will always be sarcasm, this is the internet.

Now if you state what you want and why you want it we might be able to help you. I personally have never been in that situation. I doubt there would be any hesitation if I was cornered. I just don't know. There are however a lot of deer that found out my aim is true.

Edit: Why did anyone have to draw conclusions? It was a simple question. Not a psychological test. So when your on the intent your allowed to behave like this and it is accepted? I am pretty sure the internet is regulated the same way the real world is. If someone posts kiddie porn they go to jail, someone has kiddie porn in their car they go to jail.

I'm not looking for sympathy nor is my wife, I am looking for ways to do the best I can. And I am a big construction worker - to be honest. I am scared I will not be able to protect my wife and I.

I did not ask anything inappropriate and I get accused by members of having a 'bloodlust'. No need for sympathy - I am not holding out a basket asking for change. Someone recommended this forum to me and said there were good people on here. I am pretty disappointed. I would like to ask the mods to delete (not close) this thread due to the fact that it has become a free for all arguing fest. I am disgusted with the whole matter. This thread is an embarrassment to the forum and to most of the people that posted in it. I am very thankful to all the people who PMed me privately because they realized

I thought you had a good question and one for those who have not been there truly wonder about. I didn't want to reply on the forum as it seems that too many people weren't taking it seriously.

(That came from a person in the armed forces)

Deleted

elSquid
12-16-2007, 10:59 PM
I am pretty disappointed. I would like to ask the mods to delete (not close) this thread due to the fact that it has become a free for all arguing fest. I am disgusted with the whole matter. This thread is an embarrassment to the forum and to most of the people that posted in it.

Welcome to da interweb!

-- Michael

Waingro
12-16-2007, 11:00 PM
Welcome to da interweb!

-- Michael

Tell me about it - I miss the days when TV had good stuff on it.:rolleyes::p

oaklander
12-16-2007, 11:04 PM
Read On Killing by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman (http://www.amazon.com/Killing-Psychological-Cost-Learning-Society/dp/0316330116/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1197605588&sr=8-1)

That is all I have to contribute to this thread

Excellent - book - got it right here.

IBTL

elSquid
12-16-2007, 11:06 PM
Tell me about it - I miss the days when TV had good stuff on it.:rolleyes::p

Whatdaya mean?

High Stakes Poker, Dogfights, Human Weapon, Daily Show...

Lots o great stuff!

-- Michael

Waingro
12-16-2007, 11:15 PM
Whatdaya mean?

High Stakes Poker, Dogfights, Human Weapon, Daily Show...

Lots o great stuff!

-- Michael

Spin City, Wife liked Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Seinfeld, when Jay Leno was funny. Seems like every week is shark week and History channel just bases all there shows off a movie set in a historic period.