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View Full Version : Can I buy a non listed gun


Treb5
12-13-2007, 11:05 AM
I found a non Ca listed Sig 229 for sale on the net from a PP in another state. Can I legally buy his gun? He is not family. How would I do this? Can I do this?

Lets take it one step farther, could I buy a non listed handgun from an out of state FFL and have him ship to my FFL in Ca.

Thanks

thedonger
12-13-2007, 11:10 AM
I found a non Ca listed Sig 229 for sale on the net from a PP in another state. Can I legally buy his gun? He is not family. How would I do this? Can I do this?

Lets take it one step farther, could I buy a non listed handgun from an out of state FFL and have him ship to my FFL in Ca.

Thanks

Short Answer: No

Long Answer: You can not import non listed handguns into California, unless you are moving into the state as a new or returning resident, do a search. Also you can not purchase gun in a state that you and not a resident, Federal law.

Treb5
12-13-2007, 11:18 AM
Short Answer: No

Long Answer: You can not import non listed handguns into California, unless you are moving into the state as a new or returning resident, do a search. Also you can not purchase gun in a state that you and not a resident, Federal law.

Thanks. I thought that I had read where a PPT was within the law. I guess it was if both parties were in Ca. then a non listed handgun could be transferred.

CAL.BAR
12-13-2007, 11:19 AM
The best way is to have a sworn police officer, probation officer, deputy district attorney purchase the gun (from out of state or where ever) then do a personal transfer to you. I did that for my HK45 and it worked fine. The rule re: "unsafe" guns does not apply to them at all so they can buy them for you even if it is with the intent to turn around and transfer it to you.

dicast
12-13-2007, 11:24 AM
or become a peace officer and you can get all the "unsafe" hand guns you want.

thedonger
12-13-2007, 11:29 AM
Thanks. I thought that I had read where a PPT was within the law. I guess it was if both parties were in Ca. then a non listed handgun could be transferred.

You are correct. A PPT of non listed handguns is OK as long as both parties are CA residents and the handgun is in the state legally. ie... pre list, imported by someone moving to CA, gun was on the list but has now dropped off the list...

chiefcrash
12-13-2007, 12:39 PM
just out of curiosity, what kind of p229 is this? I see an awful lot of 229's on the roster...

Treb5
12-13-2007, 12:45 PM
just out of curiosity, what kind of p229 is this? I see an awful lot of 229's on the roster...

It was a 229 Elite 40 cal.

Shotgun Man
12-13-2007, 4:05 PM
The best way is to have a sworn police officer, probation officer, deputy district attorney purchase the gun (from out of state or where ever) then do a personal transfer to you. I did that for my HK45 and it worked fine. The rule re: "unsafe" guns does not apply to them at all so they can buy them for you even if it is with the intent to turn around and transfer it to you.


What you seem to be describing is a straw purchase. To be kosher, I think the original buyer of the firearm has to say truthfully that that it is for himself. Not that he can't later transfer it to another person, but if that's what he's contemplating at the time of purchase, that sounds like a straw transaction.

Is a deputy district attorney afforded any special rights in this arena? I don't think they're peace officers.

anothergunnut
12-13-2007, 7:23 PM
I was perusing the CA pub on laws regarding "safety" standards. One of the exceptions is a person to person transfer. It seems like the way it is written, ppts are exempt from all of the standards, including the importing standard. Why can't you have somebody hand carry a handgun into CA and then do a ppt? Granted that is not the easiest thing to arrange, but if you have a friend or family member who lives out of state and wants to visit you, they could import it for a ppt.

chiefcrash
12-13-2007, 7:56 PM
What you seem to be describing is a straw purchase. To be kosher, I think the original buyer of the firearm has to say truthfully that that it is for himself. Not that he can't later transfer it to another person, but if that's what he's contemplating at the time of purchase, that sounds like a straw transaction.

Is a deputy district attorney afforded any special rights in this arena? I don't think they're peace officers.

i don't think that it would be considered a straw purchase. After all, if it WERE a straw purchase, then no one could ever buy anyone a gun as a GIFT. And yet, gifts are certainly allowed, PROVIDED THEY ARE TRANSFERED ACCORDING TO LAW.

Now if he had the cop guy it, then just hand the gun to him without going through a dealer, *that* would be a straw purchase...

CAL.BAR
12-13-2007, 9:46 PM
What you seem to be describing is a straw purchase. To be kosher, I think the original buyer of the firearm has to say truthfully that that it is for himself. Not that he can't later transfer it to another person, but if that's what he's contemplating at the time of purchase, that sounds like a straw transaction.

Is a deputy district attorney afforded any special rights in this arena? I don't think they're peace officers.

The rules are clear. They simply do not apply to the enumerated people. (i.e LEO, DA's etc.) - yes da's are on the list. So regardless of their mental intent, they CANNOT violate the law. Then once the gun is theirs and in the state, the PPT is again fully legal regardless of intent. The law is one of strict liability without regard to mental intent. For example you can intend to speed, try to drive real fast and even intend to drive over 65mph, but if you don't actually do it, your intent is irrelevant. Conversely, you can violate the speed law without any intent on doing so - as long as you actually travel 66mph or more.

David

Librarian
12-13-2007, 10:09 PM
Why can't you have somebody hand carry a handgun into CA and then do a ppt? Granted that is not the easiest thing to arrange, but if you have a friend or family member who lives out of state and wants to visit you, they could import it for a ppt.(1) Because CA won't allow it - the DROS software only accepts CA ID; (2) because Federal law prohibits - non-C&R interstate transfer must go from out-of-state to CA-FFL to CA-buyer -- and ppt doesn't fit. Search threads for 18 USC 922 (a)(3) and (a)(5).

You can -inherit- guns interstate without the FFL, but direct transfer, no.