gcrtkd
12-12-2007, 12:37 AM
Hi All-- Here's the deal... 2 weeks ago, I explained to my CA LEO buddy (a former Marine) that there are such things as civilian-legal ARs in CA. I showed him as much of the stuff that I could about OLL ARs off of CalGuns (thanks guys!) and I explained as best I could:
-w/ detachable mag you can't have any evil features
-w/ non-detachable mag, you can have all of the evil features you want, just as long as you don't ever allow the rifle to reach a CA-illegal confuguration
-what is a "detachable mag", the DOJ statement about a bullet or a casing being considered a "tool", and what a Prince 50 kit and a bullet button are
So, now I'm jealous... he calls me this afternoon from the gun shop and goes, "I just bought my AR!" He didn't ask for a letter from his chief to permit him to buy/possess an AW... he just wanted to do it on his own. Well, good for him... and good for CA gunners, I say. While we were on the phone, I told him though, "Remember, buddy... if you take that set screw out of the mag release button, that's a felony." He was incredulous and said that he thought that a LEO only needs a letter from their chief to buy an AW, but, that if he could buy an OLL build, then he could possess it in any state he wished (except full-auto, I guess).
This brings up a few questions which I haven't seen addressed in the forms and I was hoping that you guys know the answers so I can keep him on the right side of the law. (I like the statement that someone made a while back about CalGunners studying CA gun laws, "with Talmudic precision". I think that this is apt in this case.)
Some chiefs won't sign letters for some LEOs and many won't for reserve police officers, so the following questions come up with respect to sworn CA LEOs and OLL builds... some of these sort of repeat themselves... sorry.
1) When a CA LEO purchases an OLL AR build W/O AN AW LETTER FROM THEIR CHIEF, do all of the same rules apply to them as to civilians with respect to that rifle?
2) Is a letter from a LE chief permission to buy? or possess? an AW?
2a) Is a letter needed from a chief for a sworn CA LEO to possess, what by CA law is an AW?
3) If the letter from the chief is only permission to buy the weapon, can a LEO purchase an OLL build and then configure it in any manner they desire? (i.e., detachable mag @ same time as evil features?)
3a) I read in the OLL FAQ: "NEVER HAVE AN OFF-LIST LOWER RECEIVER WITH AN OPEN MAGAZINE WELL AND A PISTOL GRIP OR FOLDING (etc.) STOCK STILL ATACHED - EVEN FOR A MOMENT!!
ALSO, NEVER PUT A BARRELED UPPER RECEIVER WITH A FLASH HIDER ON AN OFF-LIST LOWER , UNLESS A NONDETACHABLE LO-CAP MAG HAS ALREADY BEEN AFFIXED."
Same question as 3), basically... if, at say this private tactical shooting course that we were going to take in LA, my buddy takes the set screw out of the Prince 50, does that automatically make him a felon for having created a banned AW, via CA law? Would it make him a felon if he took the set screw out and dropped the mag to reload?
4) Oh, and this came to mind... Obviously, most CalGunners are civilians, so they're stuck with the crappy 10 rd mag limitation. Can my buddy, as a LEO, attach whatever capacity mag he likes, as long as he follows whatever other rules apply to him? 30 rounder? 200 round drum (if they made it)?
5) Finally, if it is illegal for him to take the set screw out, or for someone with a bullet button and evil features to hit the button and drop the mag... how the hell do you reload one of these things legally? Do you have to strip off all of the evil features and then switch mags? Or can the rounds be pushed into the mag from the ejection port? (Sorry, I don't have too much familiarity with that aspect of these things.)
-Thanks guys!
-w/ detachable mag you can't have any evil features
-w/ non-detachable mag, you can have all of the evil features you want, just as long as you don't ever allow the rifle to reach a CA-illegal confuguration
-what is a "detachable mag", the DOJ statement about a bullet or a casing being considered a "tool", and what a Prince 50 kit and a bullet button are
So, now I'm jealous... he calls me this afternoon from the gun shop and goes, "I just bought my AR!" He didn't ask for a letter from his chief to permit him to buy/possess an AW... he just wanted to do it on his own. Well, good for him... and good for CA gunners, I say. While we were on the phone, I told him though, "Remember, buddy... if you take that set screw out of the mag release button, that's a felony." He was incredulous and said that he thought that a LEO only needs a letter from their chief to buy an AW, but, that if he could buy an OLL build, then he could possess it in any state he wished (except full-auto, I guess).
This brings up a few questions which I haven't seen addressed in the forms and I was hoping that you guys know the answers so I can keep him on the right side of the law. (I like the statement that someone made a while back about CalGunners studying CA gun laws, "with Talmudic precision". I think that this is apt in this case.)
Some chiefs won't sign letters for some LEOs and many won't for reserve police officers, so the following questions come up with respect to sworn CA LEOs and OLL builds... some of these sort of repeat themselves... sorry.
1) When a CA LEO purchases an OLL AR build W/O AN AW LETTER FROM THEIR CHIEF, do all of the same rules apply to them as to civilians with respect to that rifle?
2) Is a letter from a LE chief permission to buy? or possess? an AW?
2a) Is a letter needed from a chief for a sworn CA LEO to possess, what by CA law is an AW?
3) If the letter from the chief is only permission to buy the weapon, can a LEO purchase an OLL build and then configure it in any manner they desire? (i.e., detachable mag @ same time as evil features?)
3a) I read in the OLL FAQ: "NEVER HAVE AN OFF-LIST LOWER RECEIVER WITH AN OPEN MAGAZINE WELL AND A PISTOL GRIP OR FOLDING (etc.) STOCK STILL ATACHED - EVEN FOR A MOMENT!!
ALSO, NEVER PUT A BARRELED UPPER RECEIVER WITH A FLASH HIDER ON AN OFF-LIST LOWER , UNLESS A NONDETACHABLE LO-CAP MAG HAS ALREADY BEEN AFFIXED."
Same question as 3), basically... if, at say this private tactical shooting course that we were going to take in LA, my buddy takes the set screw out of the Prince 50, does that automatically make him a felon for having created a banned AW, via CA law? Would it make him a felon if he took the set screw out and dropped the mag to reload?
4) Oh, and this came to mind... Obviously, most CalGunners are civilians, so they're stuck with the crappy 10 rd mag limitation. Can my buddy, as a LEO, attach whatever capacity mag he likes, as long as he follows whatever other rules apply to him? 30 rounder? 200 round drum (if they made it)?
5) Finally, if it is illegal for him to take the set screw out, or for someone with a bullet button and evil features to hit the button and drop the mag... how the hell do you reload one of these things legally? Do you have to strip off all of the evil features and then switch mags? Or can the rounds be pushed into the mag from the ejection port? (Sorry, I don't have too much familiarity with that aspect of these things.)
-Thanks guys!