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aileron
12-11-2007, 6:50 AM
I think we need to encourage them for their efforts.

Good on them for this.

http://www.stiguns.com/CA-PressRelease.pdf


As a company, STI adhered to California’s drop test certification and DOJ listing process in 1998 for the
people in competition shooting and for those who desired self protection DESPITE the financial strain
placed on a small company such as ours. Listing our two most popular firearm models was not an
inexpensive undertaking. We even redesigned our compensator systems to adhere to the CA “no
threaded barrel” law. Then CA’s onerous liability laws were enacted and we chose at that time not to
renew certification nor to sell to LEO and governmental agencies in CA, regardless of their exempt
status, because there was no exemption from liability or legal fees which could bankrupt this company.
When federal law overrode CA’s liability laws, we resumed LE sales because we felt our product could be
used to LE’s advantage. With the micro stamping bill, we as a company have decided enough is enough.
While our sales to Law Enforcement agencies are not huge, all revenue sources are important to a
company of our size and it hurts us to turn our backs on those revenues.

While we truly feel badly for the law abiding citizens of California, we feel it is necessary to take a stand
against irresponsible legislation designed solely to inhibit the American citizen’s right to keep arms. We
are fierce proponents of the Second Amendment, and it is our hope that other manufacturers will follow
our lead. It is time for the gun industry as a whole to take a stand against the insanity of the antigunners.
We simply believe that some things are more important than profit.

In all honesty, when we made this decision we had no idea of the responses, both positive and negative,
it would evoke. We just did what we thought was right and, because of our size, didn’t really expect
much notice. Since we announced this new policy however, we have been deluged by customers
contacting us to show their support and by others who consider it to be a “stunt” of some type. We
greatly appreciate all of the supporting comments and would like to thank everyone who has taken the
time to express, even contrary, opinions. We do understand that this action on our part will have little
effect on California’s criminal or political element.

To our loyal supporters in California, we sincerely regret the measures we feel we must take and will
continue to honor all warrantee obligations. We hope for a speedy resolution of this ill conceived
violation of the Second Amendment.

All items Copyright 2007 STI International, Inc.
STI, STI International, and the STI Swirl are registered trademarks of STI International, Inc.

Sutcliffe
12-11-2007, 7:10 AM
It still amazes me how laws that interfere with interstate commerce can remain unchallenged.

tgriffin
12-11-2007, 8:17 AM
old news friend. Plus as pointed out here when this broke after the microstamping bill went through, what does that really change for them? PD's can still go through a third party distributor and buy STI guns. The common man in California cant.

Deuce22
12-11-2007, 8:33 AM
Well it doesn't surprise me one bit. The president of the company David Skinner is a friend of mine that I hunt with every year in TX and I don't blame him for his reactions. CA is one of his largest selling states but the rings of fire that he has to jump thru is incredible. Every cal, color ect.ect.ect of the exact same model has to be tested and the fees are too large for a small company that sells 99% of their guns to a nitch market. He would come back to this state only if the laws and regs made any type of common sense. A lot of companies are pulling out of CA.

Piper
12-11-2007, 8:39 AM
I think we are getting to that point in this battle for freedom where antigun elitist politicians will see the unintended conseqences of their actions. That also includes LE managers like Bratton and Baca. I just hope that all of the gun industry rallies against the government in California and says enough.

odesskiy
12-11-2007, 9:24 AM
old news friend. Plus as pointed out here when this broke after the microstamping bill went through, what does that really change for them? PD's can still go through a third party distributor and buy STI guns. The common man in California cant.

Not exactly right. If STI declines to honor the warranty for guns sold to California after the date of their withdrawal from California market, LE won't be able to buy these guns any longer, or at least they would have to eat all the repair costs.

I really hope more gun manufacturers take this stance. Can you imagine what would happen if Glock, Sig, Colt, S&W, etc. declined to sell and warrantee new firearms for California Law Enforcement? Maybe then the human waste that's running the state will start listening...

fairfaxjim
12-11-2007, 10:01 AM
Not exactly right. If STI declines to honor the warranty for guns sold to California after the date of their withdrawal from California market, LE won't be able to buy these guns any longer, or at least they would have to eat all the repair costs.

I really hope more gun manufacturers take this stance. Can you imagine what would happen if Glock, Sig, Colt, S&W, etc. declined to sell and warrantee new firearms for California Law Enforcement? Maybe then the human waste that's running the state will start listening...

Not only would they NOT start listening, they would feel even more self rightous in KNOWING that they had finally achieved their goal - no guns available in CA. That would free them up to move on to banning may other things. The focus word in Gun Ban is BAN - the gun part is just that is a soft underbelly that can be exploited easily.

The same "human waste" would probably turn on the LE and begin disarming them at that point. After all, with no guns available, why would LE need guns now?? :mad:

bwiese
12-11-2007, 10:10 AM
Waste-of-time drama-queen symbolism by an idiot.

His issue about lawsuits is moot, as the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act was passed after President Bush's signature (and favorable comments to drive its passage).

Dude'll sell a helluva lot more STIs in CA with the higher disposable incomes than he ever will in "red states". The amount of extra sales he'll milk from a Red state for his sentiments pale in comparison to the amount that'd be sold in CA.

It's not hard to do the test/pay the fees, many other companies do (Les Baer, Wilson Combat, etc.) Sounds like he wants to stay a custom shop/garage operation.

Idiots like these should learn how to read and stop propagating gun control.

If I want an STI I'll get one, using the single-shot exemption (22Short conversion). But I wouldn't p*ss on this guy if he were on fire.

4D5auto
12-11-2007, 10:38 AM
The Commies win!! They will continue with their struggle, we won't, till we're down to the last man standing, then it will be to late.

I've talked to Springfield and Kimber, both are disgusted with CA and mention they likely will no longer offer any new models into the state due to Micro Stamping. They say sales are just fine in all other states and really don't need the CA market.... The 2nd Amendment ban has been well under way, sad thing is, they will succeed!!

I've absent from the scene and getting back into it, I had no idea you could buy this stuff anymore. Now I want more info to stock up with what I can in CA before it's illegal then banned..

bwiese
12-11-2007, 10:48 AM
I guess I'm gonna have to talk to vendors at the SHOT Show and tell them not to panic about microstamping. There's so much bad info out there and it circulates and reinforces idiocy.

guns_and_labs
12-11-2007, 2:16 PM
If I want an STI I'll get one, using the single-shot exemption (22Short conversion).

Or buy the Bar-Sto version, built and maintained right here in-state. Identical, from what I can tell. I wonder if that had anything to do with pulling out of CA.

bwiese
12-11-2007, 2:19 PM
Or buy the Bar-Sto version, built and maintained right here in-state. Identical, from what I can tell. I wonder if that had anything to do with pulling out of CA.

Could be, he lets Bar-sto deal with the CA grief.

Anyway, I think he's still being a drama-queen asshat. It's a poor business decision and some of the reasons he throws out are moot.

Trader Jack
12-12-2007, 9:41 AM
Waste-of-time drama-queen symbolism by an idiot.

His issue about lawsuits is moot, as the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act was passed after President Bush's signature (and favorable comments to drive its passage).

Dude'll sell a helluva lot more STIs in CA with the higher disposable incomes than he ever will in "red states". The amount of extra sales he'll milk from a Red state for his sentiments pale in comparison to the amount that'd be sold in CA.

It's not hard to do the test/pay the fees, many other companies do (Les Baer, Wilson Combat, etc.) Sounds like he wants to stay a custom shop/garage operation.

Idiots like these should learn how to read and stop propagating gun control.

If I want an STI I'll get one, using the single-shot exemption (22Short conversion). But I wouldn't p*ss on this guy if he were on fire.

Good one Bill. You hit the nail on the head.:chris:

gmcal
12-12-2007, 1:40 PM
bwiese is exactly correct.

This is a meaningless ploy to earn points with the CA haters in other states. If STI was really on our side of the fight they would have started selling here again after the passage of the Protection of Lawful Commerce Act. I for one, would have bought at least 1 STI, more if the first was a quality gun. Selling to LE only is a slap in the face to rest of us. STI, don't let the door hit your *** on the way out.

As far as the certification process of models. You pick your best sellers, configure them in the most profitable/popular way and sell them. Just like Wilson, Baer, Nighthawk, Brown, Springfield Custom, Bar-sto etc. I have a very difficult time believing STI could not afford the fees if Bar-sto can.

bwiese
12-12-2007, 1:52 PM
I have a very difficult time believing STI could not afford the fees if Bar-sto can.

As I understand it (perhaps incorrectly) the Bar-Sto gun is built with STI parts anyway.

(Please refute me if I'm not correct.)

randy
12-12-2007, 6:23 PM
Bar Sto uses STI manufactured frames and slides. They made an agreement with them to supply those parts. I don't know how many other parts they share. I know they don't share the barrels. The guns are built in CA by Bar Sto and they do a good job. They are pricey and from that I don't think there's a big market for them outside CA. I could be wrong but If you can buy an STI from DP for 15 or 1700 why would you pay 2300 for a Bar Sto?

I'm sure there are many other people building guns on somebody elses frame there just isn't that many companies to forge the parts. Just ask Black Star.

uscbigdawg
12-12-2007, 7:01 PM
Bar-Sto pistols are worth the dollars. They're VERY well built and out shoot their STI cousins.

As for STI not selling in CA being a bad decision. I don't think Dave's hurtin'. His European sales are incredible.

Rich

Pthfndr
12-12-2007, 7:04 PM
bwiese is exactly correct.

This is a meaningless ploy to earn points with the CA haters in other states. If STI was really on our side of the fight they would have started selling here again after the passage of the Protection of Lawful Commerce Act. I for one, would have bought at least 1 STI, more if the first was a quality gun. Selling to LE only is a slap in the face to rest of us. STI, don't let the door hit your *** on the way out.


I said basically the same thing over on Arfcom when this first came out a couple weeks ago. Man did I get dumped on. Even by a few people here in CA. They were all comparing STI to Ronnie Barret. Which is a WRONG comparison.

STI dumped the civy market here a couple years ago. Barret said what he would do when the law passed, but didn't stop sales to civies when SB23 passed. He sold everything he could right up until the last minute when the law actually went into effect. He even made special deals for us CA civies to get stripped lowers (something he NEVER does) just so we could afford to get them before time was up. He then went so far as to make a special fixed mag CA version of his semi auto .50 bmg just for us CA civies.

Barret supported the PEOPLE. STI didn't do squat. They turned their back on us, and the micro stamping law may never go into effect.

bwiese
12-12-2007, 8:12 PM
I said basically the same thing over on Arfcom when this first came out a couple weeks ago. Man did I get dumped on. Even by a few people here in CA. They were all comparing STI to Ronnie Barret. Which is a WRONG comparison.

Absolutely. Ran into the same non-understanding BS over on THR.

gmcal
12-12-2007, 11:47 PM
As I understand it (perhaps incorrectly) the Bar-Sto gun is built with STI parts anyway.

(Please refute me if I'm not correct.)


From what I understand, and I could be wrong, Bar-sto uses some STI parts under license from STI. The Bar-sto gun is wide body race gun type and those are not my cup of tea. I was very interested in a Ranger II in 9mm or Trojan 5.0 in 9mm. My point regarding Bar-sto being able to afford the CA fees vs. STI, is that STI was using that excuse as a cop out, IMO. I don't have the numbers but common sense would dictate that STI outsells Bar-sto quite easily.

I applaud what Ron Barret did. I understand that STI is its own private company and can do what it wishes but STI does not deserve the same amount of praise as Barret, and the fact they continued to sell to LE when they wouldn't to civilians is unexcusable, IMO.