PDA

View Full Version : feeling helpless


mothergreen
12-10-2007, 2:58 PM
this past saturday there was a drive by shooting on my street. lets start from the begining. there was a party across the street. about 9:30 a huge brawl broke out. it eventually made its way onto my front lawn. I got my glock but I could do nothing since it wasn't inside my home. I called the cops.. well 45 minuits later after everyone had left the cops get there and leave almost immediatly... well 15 minuits later a red car comes down the street fires once at the house then a pause then 4 more shots. well after this happened it took the cops 35 minuits to arive. whereupon they proceeded to chew out the mother at the house that was just shot at. the officer refused to give a badge number and.. well I can't repeat anything he said to the woman. F the police and F california gun laws.. had I been allowed to do something I could have held those punk *** gang bangers there untill the cops arived and there never would have been a drive by shooting. there are several small children in that home! of course I realize if I had gone out there in defiance of the law and stopped the initial brawl it could have been my house that was targeted 20 minuits later. california law makes me feel helpless.. immagine how I would feel if one of those 5 shots killed somebody. I am the only one on this dead end street that is armed. having the ability and not the lawfull means really sucks.

BillCA
12-10-2007, 3:59 PM
Yup. It sucks. But if you report a large fight from a party, it'll be assigned a priority based on whatever else is going on that night. A "415 fight with 20 to 30 involved" means getting plenty of police there to handle what is, essentially, a misdemeanor.

On the other hand, if you report a fight with weapons (knives, broken bottles, bats, rocks) it's more serious as it's likely felonies are being committed.

If you report a big fight and say something like it looks like a whole big crowd is trying to kill two guys out there! The cops might be able to break a few units loose to prevent that.

Unfortunately, in California, if you go outside of your house, even if someone comes at you, a prosecutor can say that you "left the safety of your home and deliberately put yourself in peril", to negate a self-defense argument.

On the other hand, if someone is down, being beaten and kicked (or stabbed) and you go out, you're acting in defense of another. But this still gets dicey because you don't know if the "victim" started the melee.

mothergreen
12-10-2007, 4:50 PM
heres the thing... 60 people involved started by 5 guys ..all in red btw kickin the s.. outa just a few thing is none of the people involved in it were invited to this party i guess they showed up and then got into a fight. our neighbor called and said they heard them threatening to shoot them. so we reported this to the police. during the fight there was one big dude with his jacket over his arm just standin there.. so dunno .. another neighbor called for a noise complaint b4 the fight. our neighbor called for the fight and so did we. for that they sent 2 cops.. (one car..) and for the shooting later same response only a couple minuits faster response time. followed by a chewing out of the victims. this in my opinion was handled horribly by the police... I don't understand why they left the scene so fast after they first arived. I mean I hate it because I know I can't count on the police. and the law here won't let me handle anything on my own.

Crazed_SS
12-10-2007, 4:57 PM
this past saturday there was a drive by shooting on my street. lets start from the begining. there was a party across the street. about 9:30 a huge brawl broke out. it eventually made its way onto my front lawn. I got my glock but I could do nothing since it wasn't inside my home. I called the cops.. well 45 minuits later after everyone had left the cops get there and leave almost immediatly... well 15 minuits later a red car comes down the street fires once at the house then a pause then 4 more shots. well after this happened it took the cops 35 minuits to arive. whereupon they proceeded to chew out the mother at the house that was just shot at. the officer refused to give a badge number and.. well I can't repeat anything he said to the woman. F the police and F california gun laws.. had I been allowed to do something I could have held those punk *** gang bangers there untill the cops arived and there never would have been a drive by shooting. there are several small children in that home! of course I realize if I had gone out there in defiance of the law and stopped the initial brawl it could have been my house that was targeted 20 minuits later. california law makes me feel helpless.. immagine how I would feel if one of those 5 shots killed somebody. I am the only one on this dead end street that is armed. having the ability and not the lawfull means really sucks.

Yea.. sucks. I made a post like this awhile back.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=76534&highlight=jaded

Since then there has been another murder apparently.. http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/14809229/detail.html?dl=headlineclick

My new girl is sort of an anti and I says, "see this is why I have guns!" She says something like, "I dont need a gun, when it's my time, it's my time."

It seems she is a believer in fate.

mothergreen
12-10-2007, 5:30 PM
oh no not one of those I wouldn't kill even to save my own life people.. man that sucks. atleast your there to protect her. I am going to be 22 soon but I still live at home. (try getting a place of your own this day and age lol) I had to deal with my mom who is just like your girl she flipped out even ran to the window to see what was going on when the shots were fired.. atleast now she understands that the police aren't there when you need them. I've goten her from a total fear of guns to routinely shooting a gp100. I need to take her to one of those training places she needs to learn how to handle stressfull situations better. my dad has the presence of mind to get behind as many walls as possible. we have kinda strung along our plans to move because of my mom.. but hopefully this gives her the incentive to want to leave CA

Crazed_SS
12-10-2007, 5:57 PM
Yea.. it's wierd. She actually is kind of a fiesty girl and insists she would fight back against anyone trying to harm her. She almost got in big trouble awhile back for arguing and not complying with SDPD officers who she claimed were treating her wrong lol.

I have taken her to the range and she wants to go back. I also explained that it's not a good idea to be combative with the police. They will zap your *** these days :) I think we're making a little progress.

It seems like a lot of people these days are concerned about their well-being enough to fight back, buy pepper spray, do community watches, etc.. but when the subject of getting a gun for another layer of protection, people get all wierded out.:rolleyes:

mothergreen
12-10-2007, 7:30 PM
sounds like shes on the fence do it right and she will see the light. your right a lot of people are like that. the other one I hear is how its an immediate escalation of force.. well yeah so I never get in a fist/knife fight ever.. big loss right? it angers me when I hear about people being killed and bystanders do nothing.. it makes me even more angry that in this state thats all you can do unless you want to go to jail for being a decent human being.

EastBayRidge
12-10-2007, 8:18 PM
Show her some of those Oleg Volk posters...

5968
12-11-2007, 5:07 PM
this past saturday there was a drive by shooting on my street. lets start from the begining. there was a party across the street. about 9:30 a huge brawl broke out. it eventually made its way onto my front lawn. I got my glock but I could do nothing since it wasn't inside my home. I called the cops.. well 45 minuits later after everyone had left the cops get there and leave almost immediatly... well 15 minuits later a red car comes down the street fires once at the house then a pause then 4 more shots. well after this happened it took the cops 35 minuits to arive. whereupon they proceeded to chew out the mother at the house that was just shot at. the officer refused to give a badge number and.. well I can't repeat anything he said to the woman. F the police and F california gun laws.. had I been allowed to do something I could have held those punk *** gang bangers there untill the cops arived and there never would have been a drive by shooting. there are several small children in that home! of course I realize if I had gone out there in defiance of the law and stopped the initial brawl it could have been my house that was targeted 20 minuits later. california law makes me feel helpless.. immagine how I would feel if one of those 5 shots killed somebody. I am the only one on this dead end street that is armed. having the ability and not the lawfull means really sucks.


Sounds like a good time to move out.

N6ATF
12-11-2007, 7:28 PM
All I can say is if you're going to disperse a gang fight, sling your semi-AR, and when you go back inside, barricade the door and set up cover at the front window for when the drive-by comes. Then return fire with extreme prejudice.

Soldier415
12-11-2007, 7:30 PM
All I can say is if you're going to disperse a gang fight, sling your semi-AR, and when you go back inside, barricade the door and set up cover at the front window for when the drive-by comes. Then return fire with extreme prejudice.

and if they are muslim throw pork products at the vehicle with alacrity

artherd
12-11-2007, 7:45 PM
Scratch that, go to second story window with SASR.

mothergreen
12-12-2007, 2:02 AM
don't have an ar or a second story heh. but I'm sure if I needed to.. the m14 would have handled the situation. we don't throw pork.. we don't waste good food on scum k.. we dip the bullets in pork. the grease is enough. now.. if you were to have a silver bullet with a wooden core that was dipped in pork. you would be set against vampires werewolvs zombies muslims and it might piss off human beings too.

tiki
12-12-2007, 4:31 AM
All I can say is if you're going to disperse a gang fight, sling your semi-AR, and when you go back inside, barricade the door and set up cover at the front window for when the drive-by comes. Then return fire with extreme prejudice.

NOTICE: The following is a joke people.

No, you don't barricade yourself in your house. You wait until they leave, you grab a nice cold soda and walk about 3 blocks down the road. Let them drive by your house and empty the clip. Once they are empty and coming down the street laughing, you pop out of the shadows and crack a nice big smile. POP POP POP POP POP.
Then, you pick up your empty cases, go back home and take the rest of your soda and dump it on the floor. When the cops show up you can show them the spilled soda on the floor where you dove when the shots rang out.

Note: If it is after 2010 and you have a microstamped firearm, then modify the above instructions so that when you grab your soda to leave the house, you also get the 5 cases that aren't from your gun that you picked up from the last trip to the range, and after the "POP POP POP POP POP" part, you throw those cases on the ground after picking yours up.
Now, thanks to microstamping, you can prove that your gun didn't fire the shots.

Can'thavenuthingood
12-12-2007, 10:04 AM
Tiki,
Thats all wrong. Not a wise thing to do.
Best is to stay in your home and defend yourself.

Vick

Bizcuits
12-12-2007, 10:49 AM
heres the thing... 60 people involved started by 5 guys ..all in red btw kickin the s.. outa just a few thing is none of the people involved in it were invited to this party i guess they showed up and then got into a fight. our neighbor called and said they heard them threatening to shoot them. so we reported this to the police. during the fight there was one big dude with his jacket over his arm just standin there.. so dunno .. another neighbor called for a noise complaint b4 the fight. our neighbor called for the fight and so did we. for that they sent 2 cops.. (one car..) and for the shooting later same response only a couple minuits faster response time. followed by a chewing out of the victims. this in my opinion was handled horribly by the police... I don't understand why they left the scene so fast after they first arived. I mean I hate it because I know I can't count on the police. and the law here won't let me handle anything on my own.


When you get an incident like this and you call 9-1-1, you need to explain the situation in detail with fluff. Add on another 20 people if you have to and say "They've got weapons." Sound scared and call from every phone line you have in your house, including cellphones. Keep calling too. Don't just call once. If your neighbor says they called and reported a threat by someone to shoot someone else. It is third party information. It would of been better to say, "OH my f***ing god, someones got a gun!".

When they get a call dispatched as 80 people with weapons involved. Then another call of "OH MY GOD A GUN! PLEASE HURRY!" Be an actor! :) If you can fluff it up a little, they will be sending multiple Officers Code 3 to the area.

Them leaving the area quick isn't a surprise. If there is no victim, there is no crime. On a busy night, they can't waste their time hanging around an area waiting for something to happen, when the victims don't want to do anything.

Them chewing out the victims is undestandable. As from what you described, the victims were the ones responsible for the party. Very likely the chewing out was more of a scare tactic to get them to not throw anymore parties. Which in return would help stop future fights and shootings. Also, did the victims give up any information on who the shooters may of been? Good chance the victim didn't want to be cooperative and provide the shooters information.


- Moral of the story? Get your sprinklers wired into your garage, so you can turn em on the next time the fight gets onto your lawn. If someone kicks or breaks your sprinklers, well now you have probable cause to go outside.

mothergreen
12-12-2007, 11:54 AM
Tiki,
Thats all wrong. Not a wise thing to do.
Best is to stay in your home and defend yourself.

Vick

my last comment was a joke and I'm choosing to take theirs as that as well..

When you get an incident like this and you call 9-1-1, you need to explain the situation in detail with fluff. Add on another 20 people if you have to and say "They've got weapons." Sound scared and call from every phone line you have in your house, including cellphones. Keep calling too. Don't just call once. If your neighbor says they called and reported a threat by someone to shoot someone else. It is third party information. It would of been better to say, "OH my f***ing god, someones got a gun!".

When they get a call dispatched as 80 people with weapons involved. Then another call of "OH MY GOD A GUN! PLEASE HURRY!" Be an actor! :) If you can fluff it up a little, they will be sending multiple Officers Code 3 to the area.

Them leaving the area quick isn't a surprise. If there is no victim, there is no crime. On a busy night, they can't waste their time hanging around an area waiting for something to happen, when the victims don't want to do anything.

Them chewing out the victims is undestandable. As from what you described, the victims were the ones responsible for the party. Very likely the chewing out was more of a scare tactic to get them to not throw anymore parties. Which in return would help stop future fights and shootings. Also, did the victims give up any information on who the shooters may of been? Good chance the victim didn't want to be cooperative and provide the shooters information.


- Moral of the story? Get your sprinklers wired into your garage, so you can turn em on the next time the fight gets onto your lawn. If someone kicks or breaks your sprinklers, well now you have probable cause to go outside.

lol maybe the 911 tape will be my big break :jump: well it worked they said that they were planning a new years eve party and cancled it. the fight was between seperate groups of people who had crashed the party. none of the kids knew who they were.

1911_sfca
12-12-2007, 12:18 PM
F the police and F california gun laws.. had I been allowed to do something I could have held those punk *** gang bangers there untill the cops arived and there never would have been a drive by shooting. there are several small children in that home! of course I realize if I had gone out there in defiance of the law and stopped the initial brawl it could have been my house that was targeted 20 minuits later. california law makes me feel helpless.. immagine how I would feel if one of those 5 shots killed somebody. I am the only one on this dead end street that is armed. having the ability and not the lawfull means really sucks.

Riiight...

If you had tried that, I would expect that best case it would be your house that was the victim of the drive by shooting. And worst case, you would now be dead.

elroy
12-12-2007, 12:51 PM
not to bash all leo's ( i know many are good ) but the one time in my 40+ years i called 911 ( in huntington beach ) it was over a guy who threatened to get a gun and come back , he stood on the stairs of my apt forever yelling threats , i could have taken him bare handed but it wasn't my fight so call 911 let em deal with it ,,, well at first , after he finally left i thought the cops never came , i was wrong ,, i hear ,, " pssst come here " from the bushes 2 doors down , i demand they come to me ,, they won't ,, 4 f'n chicken ***** cops hidin in the bushes ,, 2 women , 1 little young asian , and one old man ,, all HBPD ,, scared to death . knees knockin , i had to go over and assure them the big bad guy had gotten away b4 they would come out ,, beyond useless !!!!!!!!! they heard gun on the radio and that was that ,, we clearly reported the guy ( 130 lb speed head ) did not have a gun but was threatening the neighbor to go get one and come back later , yet no help whatsoever from the cops , they didn't get close enough to do anything but listen to the a hole yell the threats , eventally i got the cops to talk to the neighbor and get the guy's name reported , ,,, now i assume many leo's would have handled this situation better but i know first hand that 1, you can never count on police to protect you ,, even if they are on scene ,,, 2 don't get involved in other folks problems , they made their bed , let them lay in it a while ,, it can only drag you down

Bizcuits
12-12-2007, 12:55 PM
you can never count on police to protect you ,, even if they are on scene

+1

If you don't believe this just watch the 9-11 video's of the cops who went running from the towers as they collapsed. The cops are running for their lives, it's like their afraid to die or something...

elroy
12-12-2007, 1:11 PM
well thats understandable , a human cant stop a building from falling

Bizcuits
12-12-2007, 1:35 PM
well thats understandable , a human cant stop a building from falling

I know, I was being sarcastic. :D

Just need to remember cops are human too. They are the same guys and gals who cried, laughed, got picked on, bullied people, were stupid in school or were smart. Just like humans, they are going to get scared too.

A lot of agencies have policies in place for officers to not engage a call or make a contact until they have additional Officers.

In Sacramento, the SO and PD, have specific apartments they won't go into without 3 Officers. Could be a simple easy call like a noise complaint, but they don't want to risk their lives for something stupid.

tiki
12-12-2007, 2:42 PM
my last comment was a joke and I'm choosing to take theirs as that as well..


Of course I was joking. Sorry, I keep forgetting i'm in California.

elroy
12-12-2007, 2:42 PM
ok , they had 4 in a suburban HB apt , i'm talkin quadplex , not a big apt complex , not a " bad " area ,, and the worst street in HB is still pretty tame , i came here from philly ,, you want danger , i'll show you all you can handle there

mothergreen
12-12-2007, 5:17 PM
Of course I was joking. Sorry, I keep forgetting i'm in California.

I thought it was funny.. I was half way expecting to get chewed out for my comment as well.

you can never count on police to protect you ,, even if they are on scene ,,, 2 don't get involved in other folks problems , they made their bed , let them lay in it a while ,, it can only drag you down
yep their purpose is to take reports after a crime nothing more really. I don't really care for your attitude about not helping other people.. I mean would you not feel like **** if somebody died and you did nothing? of course your right though based on california law... but still its not right.



Riiight...

If you had tried that, I would expect that best case it would be your house that was the victim of the drive by shooting. And worst case, you would now be dead.

worthless comment .... I do believe I mentioned that possibility in my original post...

elroy
12-12-2007, 6:13 PM
if someone chooses to associate with speedheads or gangbangers and their relationship goes south , they're lucky i would even bother callin the cops ,,, if i see someone being victimized thats different ,,, but i'm not feelin compelled to try and stop a drive by or a large group fight by myself for folks i don't know , even if they live on my street , thats what this thread was originally about , some little pos punk yelling threats at my neighbor at 2 am didn't warrant me goin rambo on his *** , i'm too old (smart ) to play those games, to risk getting in trouble , even weaponless , aint worth it , much less the chance of things going bad and gettin hurt or killed , the cops that night would have let us get killed and let the perp run free ,,,,,,,, if its friends or family then no question , i help , but some folks seem to like drama in thier lives ,,,, not me

mothergreen
12-12-2007, 9:06 PM
didn't know any of the details at the time it was happening really. but seeing a group ganging up on just one kid and other fights all over the place ya gotta want to do something. I dunno...

I guess if anything this is a positive case for concealed carry. no one is going to help you but yourself.

Shane916
12-12-2007, 10:24 PM
If someone kicks or breaks your sprinklers, well now you have probable cause to go outside.

I wasn't aware you needed probable cause to walk outside of your house on your own property :p

m03
12-13-2007, 10:00 PM
Just need to remember cops are human too. They are the same guys and gals who cried, laughed, got picked on, bullied people, were stupid in school or were smart. Just like humans, they are going to get scared too.

Generally, they're paid not to be.

My job sucks some times too, but you don't see me showing up half an hour after a meeting starts, etc. Putting others before yourself is sort of required of the job.

mothergreen
12-13-2007, 10:08 PM
firing their weapon in the line of duty is their job as well.. we have all seen how well they handle that.
cop>:gun_bandana:criminal>:whistling:guy behind criminal>:gnorsi:

sniper_jay
12-14-2007, 7:10 AM
as far as LAPD goes, on any given night, there could be only 6 officers, or even less, handling one of the divisions in south LA, when ideally, you need to have about 30 cops covering the area. even with 30 cops, how many fist fights do you think breaks out in south LA in any given night. that's not counting domestic violence calls, burglaries, random shootings, loud party calls, alarm calls, missing adults of kids, car accidents. you're luck you had the two cops respond at all. you want prompt police service, quit voting against hiring more cops. or move to beverly hills where you will have numerous cops showing up to a simple fight call.

mothergreen
12-14-2007, 4:38 PM
I'd rather not have to rely on the cops at all......

JarenC81
12-14-2007, 5:04 PM
mothergreen,
A very similar incident happened on my street not to long ago, though these were two idiots shooting at each other when the party spilled out into the street. I was out of town, but when i came home, my car had quite a few bullet holes as did my home and some of my neighbors as well. Some of the rounds made it inside my house as well. Initially, i considered the idiots lucky, had i been home this story would have a different ending. Come to realize after talking with LAPD, i would have easily been prosecuted for engaging these guys! Apparently, the bullet that strikes your child or wife has to have come from a gun that is intentionally aimed at its target for you to have the right to react.
You said it, feeling helpless.

Soldier415
12-14-2007, 5:10 PM
mothergreen,
A very similar incident happened on my street not to long ago, though these were two idiots shooting at each other when the party spilled out into the street. I was out of town, but when i came home, my car had quite a few bullet holes as did my home and some of my neighbors as well. Some of the rounds made it inside my house as well. Initially, i considered the idiots lucky, had i been home this story would have a different ending. Come to realize after talking with LAPD, i would have easily been prosecuted for engaging these guys! Apparently, the bullet that strikes your child or wife has to have come from a gun that is intentionally aimed at its target for you to have the right to react.
You said it, feeling helpless.

Welcome to Calguns Jaren! :D

mothergreen
12-14-2007, 5:26 PM
mothergreen,
A very similar incident happened on my street not to long ago, though these were two idiots shooting at each other when the party spilled out into the street. I was out of town, but when i came home, my car had quite a few bullet holes as did my home and some of my neighbors as well. Some of the rounds made it inside my house as well. Initially, i considered the idiots lucky, had i been home this story would have a different ending. Come to realize after talking with LAPD, i would have easily been prosecuted for engaging these guys! Apparently, the bullet that strikes your child or wife has to have come from a gun that is intentionally aimed at its target for you to have the right to react.
You said it, feeling helpless.

jesus christ even with rounds impacting your home your not allowed to. I don't like being forced to be a sheeple. this state is terrible :( I guess its a good thing you weren't home to act like a decent human being or I wouldn't be able to hear your story. how far did rounds make it in? thats a scary thought thinking you could have been hit. I had that same kinda errie feeling after the 94 earthquake. I had spent the night at my grandmas. at home where I usually fell asleep on the floor infront of the tv and tv stand (had stereo vcr all that junk ona those type of things) fell straight foreward. had I been home I'd of been crushed.

JarenC81
12-14-2007, 5:56 PM
Yeah, they said find a corner, hide and wait for the cops. My car got the worst of it, 5 rounds went clear through and 1 got lodged in the stereo. 3 hit my home, 2 came in through the living room and lodged in a wall. Wouldn't have been hit if i was home.

My imagination ran wild after it happened. I don't have any kids, but i kept having a vision of my child getting shot. Its really quite something to have the sacred, protective blanket you think your home is torn to shreds. In any case, this issue is so clear, so common sense that the DA who prosecutes something like this is just as clear a criminal.

Thanks for the welcome soldier.

Bishop
12-14-2007, 6:00 PM
Always remember rule 4!

Be sure of your target and what's behind it!

If you defend yourself by returning fire at a car in front of your house, or driving down your street, REMEMBER that on the other side of that car is another house full of innocent people! Remember that little lawyer that follows every bullet! Also, remember that returning fire from the second floor will limit the possibility of collateral damage!

As an aside to the fellow who called HB cops, you're lucky they didn't shoot YOU instead! I like cops, but if I had a dangerous situation, I'd be afraid to call HB cops. They've got a bad history of being quick on the trigger. :(

mothergreen
12-14-2007, 7:02 PM
ah they didnt go that far into your house thats good but still! I bet they went thru the car and then into your house. bullets can penetrate pretty damn far. yep they would be a criminal.. but eh stranger things have happened. find a corner.. what a dumb *** cop bullets can penetrate interior and exterior walls very easily.