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View Full Version : Legal to build side charge AR with detachable mags?


virulosity
12-09-2007, 8:08 PM
I want to build an AR with a straight pull action (Like a K31 or browning T -bolt). My question is, can I have features and detachable mags? I am unsure because the part that makes it not semi auto is the upper, but a plain lower with detach mags and pistol grip is an AW so do I have to put pistol grip on after mating the upper? :confused:

bobfried
12-09-2007, 8:16 PM
Well according to the hive mind of late, a lower in itself is not even a firearm (in consideration to CA AW laws, not fed level) so there's no such thing as an AW lower for all intensive purposes.

Notice the brash of .22lr upper lately? The lowers are all exactly the same as every other lower with all the PG, detachable mag you want. It's only an AW if you attatch a semi-automatic centerfire upper on it. So if you do a side-charging bolt action only upper than your good. The lower again, has no bearing on it being an AW when the rifle (as a complete weapon) is only a bolt action or rimfire.

M. Sage
12-09-2007, 8:26 PM
Well according to the hive mind of late, a lower in itself is not even a firearm (in consideration to CA AW laws, not fed level) so there's no such thing as an AW lower for all intensive purposes.


Close. The lower is a firearm, but by itself has no caliber (well, except the ones marked 5.56 for example) or (more importantly) action type. A lower semi-automatic, or bolt-action, or pump-action, or single-shot, or.... That's a function of the upper. :D

bwiese
12-09-2007, 8:56 PM
A manually-cycled action when built on an off-list lower is most certainly NOT a 'semiauto centerfire rifle..' - same logic applies with rimfire uppers.

The worries about lowers & fixed mags was a product of early hyper-cautiousness in the start of the OLL drama.

And a lower without upper, regardless of small parts attached, is demonstrably not (1) semiauto, nor (2) centerfire. Nor is it even rifle.

bobfried
12-09-2007, 9:00 PM
Close. The lower is a firearm, but by itself has no caliber (well, except the ones marked 5.56 for example) or (more importantly) action type. A lower semi-automatic, or bolt-action, or pump-action, or single-shot, or.... That's a function of the upper. :D

Notice my expansion on "(in consideration to CA AW laws, not fed level)". Yes we all know the lower is a firearm, but not in consideration to CA AW laws. In CA AW laws a lower does not determine the caliber or nature of a firearm, in essence, it in itself cannot be considered a complete firearm.

I'm still waiting on, or heck I might myself make a crossbow upper. Just for the hell of it.

Crazed_SS
12-09-2007, 9:40 PM
for all intensive purposes.



Intents and purposes :)

DedEye
12-09-2007, 9:53 PM
Intents and purposes :)

Beat me to it ;).

troyPhD
12-09-2007, 10:12 PM
And a lower without upper, regardless of small parts attached, is demonstrably not (1) semiauto, nor (2) centerfire. Nor is it even rifle.

You're talking about a stripped lower without evil features, right? Did I miss something recently stating it's now safe to have a lower with all the standard parts as long it's separate from the upper?

Regardless, I travel with OLL rifles disassembled. Easy enough to slap them together at the range.

bwiese
12-09-2007, 10:15 PM
You're talking about a stripped lower without evil features, right? Did I miss something recently stating it's now safe to have a lower with all the standard parts as long it's separate from the upper?

Our caution in early 1/2 of 2006 can now be mitigated.

A lower without an upper attached is not a semiauto centerfire rifle. The lower can actually have evil features attached and no fixed mag. Only when the upper is mated do concerns about evil features come into play.

artherd
12-09-2007, 11:16 PM
I want to build an AR with a straight pull action (Like a K31 or browning T -bolt). My question is, can I have features and detachable mags? I am unsure because the part that makes it not semi auto is the upper, but a plain lower with detach mags and pistol grip is an AW so do I have to put pistol grip on after mating the upper? :confused:

A lower is considered a 'regulated component' of a firearm for DROS purposes.

Even so, with a PG and mag, is not a (a)Semi-automatic (b)Centerfire (b)Rifle.

A weapon has to be all of the above to even be subject to AW restrictions on features.

You're OK to go for a straight-pull bolt action (in-fact the Cobb FA-50 sets prior precedent.) Just make sure gas tubes, etc are removed so it's not semi.

Also even though it's probably legal I wouldn't leave lowers with PGs & mags attached laying around without a non-semi upper attached. (DOJ has opined that constructive possession idiocy will not be applied to AW prosecutions, but why tempt fate for no gain in this case?)