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View Full Version : I think I may have prevented a range suicide today...


Jeffrock
12-07-2007, 1:17 PM
Just thought I would share this weird set of events that happened today....

So, I had to take care of some business this morning at a local range, and happened to get there twenty minutes before they opened. As I was sitting outside, this guy comes up to me and starts talking to me.

After asking me if I was there to shoot today, he started asking me my opinion on guns, caliber, my preference, etc. I went through the usual song and dance "People prefer different guns, and the most important thing is to be proficient with whatever firearm you choose, regardless of caliber, blah, blah, blah."

Then he asks me "If someone was approaching you, you would go for a headshot right?" I answered politely that I prefer not to discuss hypothetical situations, as every situation is different and there is no steadfast rule, etc.

He then keeps going back to "But a headshot would be the best way to kill someone, right?" I told him "Look, I am not a policeman or a doctor, so I am not the person to ask about this. Capiche?"

Then he tells me "What is the most common way to commit suicide?" :eek: At this point I am really starting to get the heebie-jeebies. I tell him "How the hell should I know?" He replies, "One gunshot is enough to do the trick, right? I mean, the only reason I am asking is because someone asked me and I had no idea. Am I right that one gunshot is enough?" :eek::eek:

I replied, "Listen, I do not think about those kind of things, and I suggest you do not ask people these kind of questions either."

He said "I understand, I am going to move my car into the parking lot in the back, brb."

At that point the range opened, and I immediately spoke with one of the employees and said "Hey, are you giving someone a lesson today?" The reply was "Yes."

I told him what happened, and they could not refund his money fast enough... They told him that they no longer offer lessons, and the range was now for members only. The guy's reply was "Can you tell me where the closest range is?" Not "Can you recommend another instructor? "

Man, that was a weird, weird conversation. I called my range (TFL in Burbank) and told them to spread the word and be on the look out.

Soldier415
12-07-2007, 1:30 PM
+1,000 for alerting the range personnel immediately

I hate it was well that people choose the range to go rent a gun and off themselves, really very selfish.

Some guy did that crap at Bullseye not too long ago and it sucked *ss as it is the only indoor range and GREAT SHOP in the 2 liberal counties of Marin and Sonoma, they are pretty under the radar as far as the holier than though anti-gun libs that make up 90% of the County's population, and a story like that in the news certainly doesnt help.


P.S.

I would have told him to remember that it's "down the street, not across the road"

not like the Brady Bunch is going to launch a campaign to ban violent razors...

Ubergeek
12-07-2007, 1:35 PM
This idiot isn't going to off himself.

He's probably hit a bad spot in his life, and this is just an attempt to get attention.

Someone who's really looking for a final exit isn't going to announce their plans to someone who might interfere.

Soldier415
12-07-2007, 1:36 PM
This idiot isn't going to off himself.

He's probably hit a bad spot in his life, and this is just an attempt to get attention.

Someone who's really looking for a final exit isn't going to announce their plans to someone who might interfere.

Never know, someone who is dumb enough to commit suicide may in fact be dumb enough to not realize asking someone those questions is a red flag

Ubergeek
12-07-2007, 1:39 PM
Never know, someone who is dumb enough to commit suicide may in fact be dumb enough to not realize asking someone those questions is a red flag

You're right.

He could want to make some kind of final statement by painting the walls with his brains.

Jeffrock
12-07-2007, 1:40 PM
This idiot isn't going to off himself.

He's probably hit a bad spot in his life, and this is just an attempt to get attention.

Someone who's really looking for a final exit isn't going to announce their plans to someone who might interfere.
Perhaps you are right. Maybe not, though... He did already pay for his private lesson a few days ago, and def. seemed intent on finding somewhere else to shoot.

Soldier415
12-07-2007, 1:41 PM
You're right.

He could want to make some kind of final statement by painting the walls with his brains.

Private Pyle, I want that weapon and I want it NOW!

milsurpshooter
12-07-2007, 1:42 PM
either way no brain matter to clean up today.

dfletcher
12-07-2007, 2:11 PM
Then he tells me "What is the most common way to commit suicide?" :eek:

Marriage?

gwl
12-07-2007, 2:18 PM
5150 canditate

VeryCoolCat
12-07-2007, 2:23 PM
Regardless of what you did... without professional help he will eventually succeed.

N6ATF
12-07-2007, 2:25 PM
http://cherrythian.com/images/borat.jpg

milsurpshooter
12-07-2007, 2:34 PM
Regardless of what you did... without professional help he will eventually succeed.

yes but at least the range won't be responsible.

CSACANNONEER
12-07-2007, 2:36 PM
Jeffrock,
Thanks for the immediate response to my PM. I did call the range I work at and passed on the description you gave me as soon as we got off the phone. Nobody there wants to rent a carpet shampooer and work late.

USN CHIEF
12-07-2007, 2:40 PM
But on a serious note, Good job Jeffrock..

elenius
12-07-2007, 3:10 PM
Don't the ranges down in SoCal have the anti-suicide rule of only renting to you if you're coming with someone else or if you already have guns? I think all ranges here in the Bay have it.

CSACANNONEER
12-07-2007, 3:26 PM
Don't the ranges down in SoCal have the anti-suicide rule of only renting to you if you're coming with someone else or if you already have guns? I think all ranges here in the Bay have it.

It sounds like he was going to be getting some type of training. If that was the case, his instructor would have been "the second person".

50 Freak
12-07-2007, 3:28 PM
I would have told him not to aim for the head, but aim for his nut sack. We don't need dumb people like that to multiply in this world.

Soldier415
12-07-2007, 3:39 PM
I would have told him not to aim for the head, but aim for his nut sack. We don't need dumb people like that to multiply in this world.

Every day I think to myself that the gene pool needs more chlorine...

dfletcher
12-07-2007, 4:10 PM
What if not killing himself today results in him killing his wife & family next week ..........?

Patriot
12-07-2007, 4:28 PM
What if not killing himself today results in him killing his wife & family next week ..........?

A person can only reasonably be expected to act based on the immediate situation and what they know at the time. Since there seems to be no indication that anything like that would happen, it is virtually impossible to know or even have a reasonable suspicion of such a potentiality. He responded appropriately based on what was going on then and there. Furthermore, if the guy was a potential murder-suicide, why would he be interested in offing himself at the range?

dondo
12-07-2007, 4:32 PM
This idiot isn't going to off himself.

He's probably hit a bad spot in his life, and this is just an attempt to get attention.

Someone who's really looking for a final exit isn't going to announce their plans to someone who might interfere.
Actually people who off themselves send up red flag all over the place. It is only after the fact people put the pieces together. Not everyone, but in a lot of instances. In any case suicide is the biggest act of selfishness UNLESS it you have some sort of terminal disease and you want out on your own terms. Just because your bankrupt or got caught banging the neighbors wife, buck up and take your licks.

Satex
12-07-2007, 4:46 PM
Did you prevent it or just defer it?

5968
12-07-2007, 5:02 PM
That is a f*****d up situation. I think that you handled it well.

Jeffrock
12-07-2007, 6:16 PM
Did you prevent it or just defer it?
I am not sure, let me check my crystal ball and I'll get back to you... :rolleyes:

retired
12-07-2007, 6:19 PM
As far as not being able to rent a gun if by yourself down here; the ranges I've been too have that rule. But, they don't have a rule about shooting at the range with your own gun and being by yourself. I usually go by myself and never rent a gun.

MedSpec65
12-07-2007, 6:23 PM
Thanks for having the guts to take the initiative and do something about it. You did what you could, under the circumstances.

DedEye
12-07-2007, 8:32 PM
Good work. Even if he does eventually kill himself you spared the range staff the hassle of dealing with it (and the same goes for the other ranges alerted).

MrLogan
12-08-2007, 10:01 AM
Every day I think to myself that the gene pool needs more chlorine...

I find myself thinking that every day. :rolleyes:

U2BassAce
12-08-2007, 10:32 AM
Then he asks me "If someone was approaching you, you would go for a headshot right?" I answered politely that I prefer not to discuss hypothetical situations, as every situation is different and there is no steadfast rule, etc.

This is the part that freaks me out on your behalf. Think he was going to use his own version of suicide by cop? But using you as the cop? Pull gun on you in range bay?:(

lawnrevenge
12-08-2007, 10:58 AM
This is the part that freaks me out on your behalf. Think he was going to use his own version of suicide by cop? But using you as the cop? Pull gun on you in range bay?

That's what I was thinking, he may have even intended a murder suicide plugging the instructor and then himself or plugging you and being gunned down.

Suicide is selfish, even when you have a terminal disease. You're only thinking of yourself in either instance. I'd rather lose a loved one to cancer than suicide.

dondo
12-08-2007, 11:12 AM
Suicide is selfish, even when you have a terminal disease. You're only thinking of yourself in either instance. I'd rather lose a loved one to cancer than suicide.
Thats the selfish part. Let see what you think when your lying in bed with brain cancer. Let me know how that goes.

lawnrevenge
12-08-2007, 11:21 AM
I'll be sure to let you know. Because I'd rather people have time to say goodbye than to have them deal with the grief of me selfishly offing myself because I would rather not suffer. God doesn't deal us more than we can handle. I don't want to have to explain to God why I decided to play God.

dondo
12-08-2007, 12:13 PM
I'll be sure to let you know. Because I'd rather people have time to say goodbye than to have them deal with the grief of me selfishly offing myself because I would rather not suffer. God doesn't deal us more than we can handle. I don't want to have to explain to God why I decided to play God.
Oh...when god dealt that brain cancer, that wasnt more than anyone can handle? Thanks god. One of my best friends lost a 2 year battle with esophegeal cancer and at the end of the road he wished he had made his peace and forwent the struggle. Good luck with god and your poker hand.

Max-the-Silent
12-08-2007, 1:20 PM
That's what I was thinking, he may have even intended a murder suicide plugging the instructor and then himself or plugging you and being gunned down.

Suicide is selfish, even when you have a terminal disease. You're only thinking of yourself in either instance. I'd rather lose a loved one to cancer than suicide.

After having watched a couple of individuals go from being active and full of life to desiccated husks, I can't agree with you in any way, shape or form.

I personally wouldn't want to harm my loved ones by my actions, but I already have a DNR order and a Living Will in place.

God forbid I'm ever in that position, but if I am, I'll go out at a time of my choosing if at all possible.

lawnrevenge
12-08-2007, 1:29 PM
I've lost family and friends to cancer and other diseases. I don't wish that death on anybody. I also have a DNR wish. That is different that blowing my brains out or jumping off a bridge. I understand your opinions, I just don't agree. And emotionally based arguments won't change my position. I believe in more than just this life and I believe that God has a plan for us. Or would Job be better off had he just hung himself instead of enduring what God allowed Satan to do?

CALI-gula
12-08-2007, 1:32 PM
Many of the ranges have stipulations against single-person rental unless you have brought your own gun to the range as well. However, it sounds as if he was attempting to circumvent that rule by taking lessons, whereby the trainer is the shooting partner, and the rental is a part of the package. Smart guy! Clever! A range I know does rent guns but from my recollection, they don't rent out to non-gun owners who come in alone (though I have never rented a gun there because I have never had the need).

And to those whom would say that suicide is "selfish". That is an outsider's view of such an act. The suicidal person often feels he is doing everyone else around him a favor, or getting out of a terrible situation as it seems like there is no hope, and it can only get worse, so to end it all is to rid one self of pain... and maybe the perceived pain they are causing others. Yes, such people do need help, but no, they don't often see their own doing in as a selfish act; often, it's exactly the opposite. Sometimes it's just thought to be a means to the end of a story that had an unhappy plot for what has seemed like a really, really, long time, and maybe getting out of the way from causing so many other people a perceived strife.

All of us are mortal, all of us hold life similarly, yet some think we can use our lives like a tool, sometimes in cruel ways which is cheap and lousy. How you see the purpose and outcome of suicide really dictates whether you will truly commit to it or not. Most kill themselves out of having delusional views of their place in the world among those around them, bad or good. You just don't want to go on anymore, because the grass is greener on the other side of the fence, or on the cemetery plot as the case may be.

However, the "death is the only option" simply is not the case, nor true motives of the suicidal. Suicide takes a lot of courage, but it's begotten out of a warped sense of the outcome. My advice to anyone suicidal and committed to it, would be this; we prefer you don't do it, and really rather you didn't, and wait it out a bit. It's usually just a decision of passion and momentary- you'll feel different about it days later - AND SLEEP ON IT! One common trend found among those who actually commit suicide is that they were sleep deprived.

....But if you do go for it, can you do it some manner without the use of a firearm (first and foremost) and second, when you do commit to the act, can you leave other people and pets out of it? If it's your choice, keep it to yourself, please don't share. It would be greatly appreciated. I agree with Jeff - if I was the type akin to do it, I would never use a gun; I wouldn't give the Brady Campaign the time of day by allowing them the chance to actually have a real statistic for once in their coffers, that they could utilize for their disturbing cause.

.

dondo
12-08-2007, 2:58 PM
I've lost family and friends to cancer and other diseases. I don't wish that death on anybody. I also have a DNR wish. That is different that blowing my brains out or jumping off a bridge. I understand your opinions, I just don't agree. And emotionally based arguments won't change my position. I believe in more than just this life and I believe that God has a plan for us. Or would Job be better off had he just hung himself instead of enduring what God allowed Satan to do?
I totally respect your opinions. Suicide sucks for everyone associated with it. So so painful. Unfortunately, and I have no real statistics here, but it seems more people off themselves over lifes more trivial things than disease. Which is extremely selfish and a cop out. As for Job and Satan, I wouldn't even pretend to know what you are talking about.

Jeffrock
12-13-2007, 7:13 PM
Well, the person did end up committing suicide. He injected himself yesterday or today with some kind of poison, then hung himself with a belt.

His wife called and thanked us for our actions, she said it gave her a few extra days to spend with her husband. :(

I was going back and forth whether I should delete or reply to this thread. I came to the conclusion that I would be doing the Calguns community a disservice by not posting, so here it is, for posterity if nothing else.

Stay vigilant guys, don't fall into the "That stuff could never happen to me" mentality. I know we joke a lot about tinfoil and paranoia, but don't be afraid to say something if you sense something is amiss.

dondo
12-13-2007, 7:20 PM
Wow. My condolences to the family and friends he left behind. Sickening.

StraightShooter
12-13-2007, 7:54 PM
Aww... man that is terrible. My heart goes out to him and his family.

oaklander
12-13-2007, 8:11 PM
Same here. Bad news all around. Sorry for him and his family.

dondo
12-13-2007, 8:13 PM
I hope he didn't have kids.

Corbin Dallas
12-13-2007, 8:26 PM
Well, the person did end up committing suicide. He injected himself yesterday or today with some kind of poison, then hung himself with a belt.

His wife called and thanked us for our actions, she said it gave her a few extra days to spend with her husband. :(

I was going back and forth whether I should delete or reply to this thread. I came to the conclusion that I would be doing the Calguns community a disservice by not posting, so here it is, for posterity if nothing else.

Stay vigilante guys, don't fall into the "That stuff could never happen to me" mentality. I know we joke a lot about tinfoil and paranoia, but don't be afraid to say something if you sense something is amiss.

Bummer. It would seem you just postponed his actions. Gladly he didn't take anyone else with him.

Thank you for letting the community know.

N6ATF
12-13-2007, 11:32 PM
Did not expect a followup, but it's good to know.

Black_Talon
12-14-2007, 3:24 PM
His wife called and thanked us for our actions, she said it gave her a few extra days to spend with her husband. :(

Dang.

How did she know how to contact you?

Soldier415
12-14-2007, 3:29 PM
I was wondering the same thing.

taloft
12-14-2007, 3:58 PM
I'm wondering why she didn't have him committed or taken steps to intervene prior to him doing this if she knew ahead of time?

dondo
12-14-2007, 4:10 PM
I'm wondering why she didn't have him committed or taken steps to intervene prior to him doing this if she knew ahead of time?
hindsight is always 20/20.