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Ak47owner
12-05-2007, 5:29 PM
i have a ak that has a home bent reciever from a flat and i have all the compliant parts and i have a fixed 10 round mag for it what would happen if i got pulled over and they searched my weapon and found no serial number?

because i made it from a flat it has no numbers or markings.

MrTuffPaws
12-05-2007, 5:37 PM
AFAIK, you need to assign it a serial number.

CSACANNONEER
12-05-2007, 5:41 PM
i have a ak that has a home bent reciever from a flat and i have all the compliant parts and i have a fixed 10 round mag for it what would happen if i got pulled over and they searched my weapon and found no serial number?

because i made it from a flat it has no numbers or markings.

It is ILLEGAL! You need to follow the laws on homebuilds and put identifying markings on it NOW! FWIT, prior to 1969 longguns did not need to have ser.#s and many that were made then simply and legally don't have them. But, I'm assuming that your rifle was made sometime after 1969. So, you better get the stamp set out!

Ak47owner
12-05-2007, 5:42 PM
ok so i would have to take it to a ffl dealer and have this done and wait the 10 days

Ak47owner
12-05-2007, 5:43 PM
thank you i am demilling reciever now so i can do all of this

hoffmang
12-05-2007, 5:44 PM
No. All you need to do is assign it a unique serial number. Your initials followed by 001 should work.

-Gene

Ak47owner
12-05-2007, 5:47 PM
ok but if i do assign it with a number i have to take it to the ffl dealer, to have the paper work done, or do i just put numbers on and not take it to the ffl

Liberty1
12-05-2007, 5:56 PM
All you need to do is assign it a unique serial number. Your initials followed by 001 should work.

-Gene

Just what the man said.

bwiese
12-05-2007, 5:57 PM
Just number it *NOW*, maybe put a location too - "Joe Blow #001/Fresno CA".

You do not need to run it thru an FFL, etc.

Ak47owner
12-05-2007, 5:58 PM
B..E..A..UTIFUL... thanks

Ak47owner
12-05-2007, 5:59 PM
puttin numbers on it now thanks guys

Liberty1
12-05-2007, 6:10 PM
I actually don't know what I'm talking about in this case, I'm just assuming Mr Hoffmang did't leave anything out of his post. :cool2:

artherd
12-06-2007, 2:04 AM
I'm just assuming Mr Hoffmang did't leave anything out of his post. :cool2:
He rarely does!

socalguns
12-06-2007, 2:37 AM
actually :) you don't need a serial number
removing a serial number is illegal,
but not having one is legal, both under fed and california law
only licensed manufacturers must permanently affix serial numbers on firearms

the only time you'd need a serial, is if you wanted to register your gun
(like the recent 50BMG assault rifle situation)
however, it is a good idea to put a serial number to avoid hassle,
but no need to make it your drivers license id (like the BOF suggests)

elenius
12-06-2007, 9:07 AM
Just out of curiosity, how do you know your newly invented serial # is unique?

rohanreed
12-06-2007, 9:37 AM
Just out of curiosity, how do you know your newly invented serial # is unique?

I believe by unique, they mean unique to the manufacturer/model.

Can'thavenuthingood
12-06-2007, 9:49 AM
When does a 'flat' actually become a receiver?

At the final bend or somewhere in between?

Vick

locktime
12-06-2007, 10:50 AM
Can the serial number on a rifle be in a location that requires removing the rifle from the stock to see it?

For example, on a bolt action rifle, can the number be on a portion of the receiver that is hidden by the stock, but easily viewed when the action is removed from the stock?

hoffmang
12-06-2007, 12:18 PM
As a legal matter, it would likely be ok to have the serial in a place covered by an easily removeable accessory or part. However, as a practical matter you want it to be inspectable. There are ATF regulations on where manufacturers should pace SNs and you should likely follow those.

-Gene

blacklisted
12-06-2007, 12:40 PM
Please use an engraver, not a magic marker or crayon.

chiefcrash
12-06-2007, 2:01 PM
just out of curiosity, can someone point me to the law that says a home-built firearm needs to have a serial number?

hoffmang
12-06-2007, 2:17 PM
just out of curiosity, can someone point me to the law that says a home-built firearm needs to have a serial number?

Chief,

I don't believe there is such a law. The recommendations above are simply very easy ways to keep from having a misunderstanding with a LEO.

-Gene

chiefcrash
12-06-2007, 3:27 PM
Chief,

I don't believe there is such a law. The recommendations above are simply very easy ways to keep from having a misunderstanding with a LEO.

-Gene

that's what i was thinking...

so for those of you saying having a home-built firearm without a serial number is illegal: cite your source, or I call BS


no arguement that having a serial number would cut down on LEO misunderstandings though. Plus, god forbid your rifle ever got confiscated/stolen/etc, having a serial number might be a good thing... (some insurance companies may require it as well)

artherd
12-06-2007, 4:48 PM
DOJ thinks you need a SN:

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/50bmgfaqs.php

27. What identification information must be permanently affixed to the receiver portion of a home built firearm?
A serial number. An individual may assign any unique serial number, such as a unique driver license number, to any home built firearm.

CSACANNONEER
12-06-2007, 4:54 PM
You don't have to put a number on it but, you do have to put identifying markings on it. A number is just an easy way to do that. I read somewhere that ATF suggests that you put your name and address on it!

Hunter
12-06-2007, 6:40 PM
The ATF suggests that you put a unique identifier on each weapon, but with a long gun it is not a requirement. If you ever wanted to sell or transfer the weapon later you would need to have a serial number, mfg name (you) and location (city/state). The engraving would also have to conform to the minumum depth and size requirements for a licensed manufacturer.

This is almost 100% correct. :D

Even the ATF only "suggest" one puts the builders name, city, state, serial number on it, but it is NOT a legal requirement. Now for a FFL dealer to resale a gun, they must have some way to identify it and therefore require the proper markings. But the person (non FFL) selling doesn't have to have it marked themselves.

bwiese
12-06-2007, 6:43 PM
Even though you 'can' get away with some of the above, I think it's wisest to put something on.

In a traffic stop, you may already have to explain 'off-list' and legal configurations - why add one more burden?

Hunter
12-06-2007, 6:45 PM
Even though you 'can' get away with some of the above, I think it's wisest to put something on.

In a traffic stop, you may already have to explain 'off-list' and legal configurations - why add one more burden?

You sir, are correct in that aspect. But when you say "can get away with" it sounds like one is bending the law, which they are not.

bwiese
12-06-2007, 6:50 PM
You sir, are correct in that aspect. But when you say "can get away with" it sounds like one is bending the law, which they are not.

Maybe not Federally, but it appears state does, as Ben/artherd quoted above.

Of course, I'll have to dig and see if that Calif DOJ assertion is actually backed by law... (given recent past history :) )

Hunter
12-06-2007, 7:00 PM
Maybe not Federally, but it appears state does, as Ben/artherd quoted above.

Of course, I'll have to dig and see if that Calif DOJ assertion is actually backed by law... (given recent past history :) )

That response was in reply to what does one do with a home built receiver that they wanted to register under the .50 BMG Rifle ban. The CA-DOJ said such receivers needed a serial number of some sort to identify the receiver. It was not in relation to other home built guns in general.

bwiese
12-06-2007, 7:08 PM
That response was in reply to what does one do with a home built receiver that they wanted to register under the .50 BMG Rifle ban. The CA-DOJ said such receivers needed a serial number of some sort to identify the receiver. It was not in relation to other home built guns in general.

Good catch, I was reading quickly and not thinking. Of course it makes sense, 50BMGs needed to be reg'd by at least a serial#.

artherd
12-06-2007, 7:21 PM
Maybe not Federally, but it appears state does, as Ben/artherd quoted above.

Of course, I'll have to dig and see if that Calif DOJ assertion is actually backed by law... (given recent past history :) )

That is why I mentioned DOJ "THINKS" an SN is required ;) I don't know of any penal code actually compelling it; however I have not looked and do not claim any expertise on the matter.

Also, as mentioned, the answer was penned in general response to questions around .50BMG registration, however the answer itself does not specifically address .50BMGs. Take it all as you will, I'll be putting SNs on my homebuilds.

falawful
12-06-2007, 7:32 PM
There is NO requirement for a S/N on either handguns OR longguns that are home built.

They SUGGEST or say you MAY put one on but there is NO legal requirement for it.

BATFE does SUGGEST putting a S/N on in order to facilitate theft recovery but there is NO legal requirement to do so, neither was there any legal requirements to put a S/N on firearms before 1968.

wilit
12-06-2007, 7:47 PM
But under CA law, since you still need to register a homebuilt handgun, wouldn't you need a SN for registration purposes?

CSACANNONEER
12-06-2007, 7:55 PM
But under CA law, since you still need to register a homebuilt handgun, wouldn't you need a SN for registration purposes?

I've seen plenty of longguns transfered with serial number: NONE. I wonder what DOJ BOF would do if they saw "NONE" on a handgun registration form?

hoffmang
12-07-2007, 2:23 PM
I own long guns old enough to be serial number less (in the family since pre-1900). NONE is common on older weapons but less common on handguns.

-Gene

JHC
12-07-2007, 4:00 PM
But under CA law, since you still need to register a homebuilt handgun

You sure about that?

JPglee1
12-07-2007, 4:07 PM
i have a ak that has a home bent reciever from a flat and i have all the compliant parts and i have a fixed 10 round mag for it what would happen if i got pulled over and they searched my weapon and found no serial number?

because i made it from a flat it has no numbers or markings.

According to DOJ (CA) and BATF, home built LONG GUNS do NOT need any markings on them. It is suggested that you DO mark it, but its not 100% needed to be legal.

If you want to sell the gun sometime in the future, then you WOULD need to add a makers name, city/state, model name/#, serial number.

BATF is OK with something as simple as the date you built the gun, or any number really. I suggest date+001... so something like 120707-001

I have this in WRITING from the California DOJ, I'm not pulling this out of my arse. They said to follow BATF's rules for long guns and you'll be OK.

I personally would put a serial # on it, but thats all (meaning no maker/city/etc), for a personal owned/built rifle that wouldn't be sold in the future. Its a good idea to keep the LEO's comfy and also to keep track of it should it get stolen, etc.

Good luck.


J

artherd
12-08-2007, 3:49 AM
Got a copy of that letter? It'd be nice to find another area DOJ is inconsistent.

hoffmang
12-08-2007, 11:12 AM
If you get it to me, I can happily post it.

-Gene

GuyW
01-30-2008, 6:45 PM
DOJ thinks you need a SN:

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/50bmgfaqs.php

That's a CA imposition, _IF_ true.

In any case, I don't think a serial number must be totally comprised of #s.

Something like "F**K THE CA DOJ 001", or "DEATH TO TYRANTS #1" sounds appropriate.

jamesob
01-30-2008, 9:15 PM
im in the proccess of a pistol build. my i.d marks are gonna say. calsxabg1