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View Full Version : How not to apply for a CCW


Glock22Fan
12-05-2007, 12:47 PM
Sadly, on page 15 of the CRPA newslatter for December, 2007, there is a case where someone has been turned down for a CCW without even submitting the application form.

This is an excellent example of what not to do. At the end of the article, he asks a number of questions regarding the process. If only he had read the article on CCW serialized in that same newsletter over the last three months, visited http://www.californiaconcealedcarry.com/gettingstarted.html or lurked on this and/or other sites, he would have known the answers and been better prepared to enter the process.

Basically, this gentleman said he needed a CCW so he could protect himself and his property from the day laborers he himself employs to work on his ranch. He compounded it by adding a long paragraph claiming that that a refusal would infringe his rights under the 2nd.

As the reply from the Sonoma Sheriff pointed out, you don't need a CCW on your own property and having day laborers around the place doesn't constitute an objectified threat meriting a CCW.

And we all know how playing the 2nd card works out in this sort of scenario in California: useless at best.

I don't know whether this person could articulate a more viable reason for having a CCW, but he has really messed up any chance of recovering from this. As we stress at Team Billy Jack, Do Your Homework First!

P.S. If you know Roger Jack Young, refer him to the sources I mention above.

50 Freak
12-05-2007, 12:50 PM
Actually this guy didn't seem like such a smart cookie....I'm glad he got turned down.

Python2
12-05-2007, 12:56 PM
:eek: CCW permit on his property? To have protection from his employee?:rolleyes:

Ironchef
12-05-2007, 1:00 PM
So what IS a good way to get a CCW in CA if you're not LE, FFL, or military? Like in 'What can you say' to get one? I"m under the impression there is no serious enough cause a sheriff will grant one (unless your an old sea hag senator from CA).

Glock22Fan
12-05-2007, 1:17 PM
So what IS a good way to get a CCW in CA if you're not LE, FFL, or military? Like in 'What can you say' to get one? I"m under the impression there is no serious enough cause a sheriff will grant one (unless your an old sea hag senator from CA).

This depends totally upon the jurisdiction in which you live.

If this is somewhere like San Francisco or Los Angeles, you are probably out of luck, unless you are in the "Friend of the Sheriff" category for whatever reason.

In many rural areas, such as Kern, getting a permit is much more straight forward. Although the CLEO would like to see a little more than "Because I can," they tend to be more open to reasons such as "I carry large sums of money/valuables for business reasons" or "My job takes me into bad neighborhoods at night."

In between are the "maybe's." These can be convinced with a good reason, such as "My ex keeps trying to kill me."

This is all discussed on the getting started article at http://www.californiaconcealedcarry.com/gettingstarted/ccwarticle.html.

Orange County was somewhat an anomaly, being a pretty urban county with a strong issuance policy. However, we are waiting to analyze the fallout of Sheriff Carona's indictment before we can tell what's going to happen here on an ongoing basis.

And there's the drawback of the incredibly silly California system. Issuance is completely at the whim of the sitting Sheriff/Chief. An area that is favorable this year may go putrid after the election of a new sheriff. And vice versa, but we don't see that so often.

CitaDeL
12-05-2007, 1:41 PM
I think I will assume the gentleman is not internet capable.

If he were, he might have investigated before he decided to ask permission to carry a gun.

I believe that his mistake wasn't how he was asking permission, but the simple fact that he asked permission at all- presuming he couldnt excesize the right to keep and bear arms.

By asking permission to do something (whatever it is), you are ceding your rights to the authority, real or imagined, of another. There are a couple of problems in this- 1) you are allowing someone who may not have the authority to do so, decline your request on the basis of personal preference and possibly under the color of law, and 2) you are demonstrating ignorance of the particulars of your situation.

Know the law, and act within it.

bg
12-05-2007, 5:50 PM
What he needs is Congo the Dog...

Patriot
12-05-2007, 5:53 PM
Just read the article, no kidding!

Our place looks to those day laborers like a big hacienda owned by a rich patron. [...] The temptation to rob or burglar [sic] may be too great for them

Pointing out the "people" and "shall not be infringed" part of the 2A probably doesn't help any.

He says my reason for applying

then says he's concerned about his day laborers burglarizing his house. Yet he notes that he can already legally carry on his property. He then implies that the real reason he needs a CCW is so he can carry loaded and accessible when he leaves his place in a vehicle. (It's hard to conceive how his stated reason has any bearing on off-property CCW.)

I don't want to be too critical, but this is definitely an example of what not to do in applying for a CCW in a discretionary-issue locale.

BillCA
12-05-2007, 7:59 PM
And there's the drawback of the incredibly silly California system. Issuance is completely at the whim of the sitting Sheriff/Chief. An area that is favorable this year may go putrid after the election of a new sheriff. And vice versa, but we don't see that so often.

Not to mention that the replacement sheriff, even a temporary one, can send out cancellation letters to all permit holders at any time.

CCWFacts
12-05-2007, 8:42 PM
I'm strongly pro-CCW, but sometimes... sometimes I have no sympathy at all when someone gets denied. Like this time.

bwiese
12-05-2007, 9:50 PM
The fact that it's tied in into CRPA material indicates overall idiocy anyway.

TheDM
12-06-2007, 7:50 PM
Wow, in Kansas to get one, you have to ask, no reason. Just the training course and no bad stuff on your record.

I feel sorry for you guys. You do have to be fingerprinted, and do need an CLEO signature from the county sheriff, but they would never say no. Because, well, it's Kansas.

CCWFacts
12-06-2007, 8:10 PM
Hey you guys in KS were no-issue until 2006 I believe, so we've been ahead of you until about a year ago. And we're working on catching up.

TheDM
12-06-2007, 8:19 PM
Hey you guys in KS were no-issue until 2006 I believe, so we've been ahead of you until about a year ago. And we're working on catching up.

In that area yes, but I can have 100 rd drums for my AK :P Not to mention where I went to school, back in the good old days, the back of every other pickup made the school parking lot look like Cabelas the day they have the big sale!

Paladin
12-06-2007, 10:48 PM
Not to mention where I went to school, back in the good old days, the back of every other pickup made the school parking lot look like Cabelas the day they have the big sale!So that's no longer the case? So, Kansas is just like PRK re rifle racks in pickups on HS campuses nowadays, right? ;)

4D5auto
12-06-2007, 11:40 PM
As mentioned already, depends what County you reside in. I've had a CA CCW for 20 years. I live in a Shall Issue County! Thank God!!! When I resided in the Bay Area, they laughed! I also posses a Fl. CCW along with a Nevada CCW, both of which you all here can obtain, so I can carry in about 90% of the USA!!!!

TheDM
12-07-2007, 2:41 AM
So that's no longer the case? So, Kansas is just like PRK re rifle racks in pickups on HS campuses nowadays, right? ;)

Yeah, due to the politically correct world we all live in now, you never see that any more, anywhere. I'm pretty sure you can't even have one in the truck on school propert, much less displayed in the window. It seems the populous would just love to make anything illegal to protect us. I really really hate that. I grew up in a town of 600 graduated in 85, at least 1/3 of the kids had rifles that you could see in the back windows of trucks. In wood shop, the number one project kids would make:

Gun rack for the truck.

Hey CCWfacts, I don't know if you followed it, but we only acquired CCW because the Kansas congress overrode the veto :) I was very happy about that, it's a good sign.

TheDM
12-07-2007, 2:50 AM
Hey you guys in KS were no-issue until 2006 I believe, so we've been ahead of you until about a year ago. And we're working on catching up.

It's really a shame any state has to "catch up" it should have never been messed with to begin with. Both our states were founded by big iron's on our hips. We lost our way, not just on this issue, but on everything. I think quite a few states have a tofu consumption requirement these days.

SIGH, thanks for bustin' my bubble, I felt good about Kansas for about 3 seconds ;)

Still, it's better than most in a lot of ways. I wouldn't trade how I grew up for anything, no crime, no BS, didn't even have to lock your car. I played outside all day, from the age of 8 I could be out till 11pm. No one can do that now anywhere, what have we done to ourselves....

Sigh... again.....

Jedi
12-07-2007, 5:30 AM
Isn't catching up to Kalifornia's CCW laws kind of like running after the short bus?

Solidsnake87
12-07-2007, 10:25 AM
My parents have a house in Greenwood. I do a lot of hiking around the property and along various trails, ect.... I've heard some crazy stories of cougar attacks that were fumbled because the guy had a pistol on him. Could i get a CCW for this kind of outdoors protection?

4D5auto
12-07-2007, 11:17 AM
Don't need one on private property or National Forest.

artherd
12-08-2007, 2:47 AM
Yeah, due to the politically correct world we all live in now, you never see that any more, anywhere. I'm pretty sure you can't even have one in the truck on school propert, much less displayed in the window. It seems the populous would just love to make anything illegal to protect us.
Heck, I don't need to move for KS to find the nanny-state! Sad that it's become a global epidemic.

The school my mother teaches in now does not even have hot water... You guessed it, the kids might burn themselves :rolleyes: .

Waingro
12-08-2007, 3:14 AM
I personally think that more then half of the members on this forum are not suitable for a CCW due to the fact that they might mistake elderly people for Zombies.:rolleyes::p (I am only half way kidding - that brings the number down to 1/4 of people on this forum):D

MadMex
12-08-2007, 5:04 AM
The guy’s rationale serves as another stark reminder that half the people out there have less than average intelligence.

.22guy
12-08-2007, 8:42 AM
Why doesn't the guy just hire better employees if he is so worried about it?