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vortex
12-04-2007, 1:59 PM
"Someone I know" has a few items that friends are always saying are illegal to simply possess in California. If that's true, he will dispose of them because he's a cautious kind of a guy. Here they are:

1. one live .50 cal round.
2. what looks to be a wooden billy club; old, probably antique, lathe-turned. It's short, maybe 14 inches long.
3. one inert, hole-in-the-bottom hand grenade. It's a joke "Complaint Dept - please take a number," mounted on wood. It is metal and appears to have once been a real grenade.

It's very hard for me to believe that any of these things could really be illegal. Are they? If so, how does one legally dispose of them?

Thanks.

**********************************************
Next day:

Many thanks for all the responses. Here’s what I have learned:

1. live “ordinary” .50 cal round:
No problem.

2. old short wooden thing that looks like a billy club:
Highly illegal WMD. Can’t keep it. And remember, I’m talking about simply possessing it - in the house - not carrying it around in the car or on the person. It appears that it’s got to go in any case. Ridiculous, but true (in Kalifawneeya).
And even if a thing doesn’t look like a real billy club, but can be used as a club, you may be in trouble depending on circumstances.

3. inert hand grenade:
Should be no problem, especially as long as the grenade remains attached to the joke plaque. Thanks to “edwardm” for pointing out the exemption (subdivision 15) to Penal Code 12020 allowing inert hand grenades that are relics, curios, memorabilia, or display items.

ar15barrels
12-04-2007, 2:00 PM
I think these two are problematic:

2. what looks to be a wooden billy club; old, probably antique, lathe-turned. It's short, may 14 inches long.
3. one inert, hole-in-the-bottom hand grenade. It's a joke "Complaint Dept - please take a number," mounted on wood. It is metal and appears to have once been a real grenade.

rssslvr
12-04-2007, 2:00 PM
pretty sure # 2 and 3 are illegal

rssslvr
12-04-2007, 2:12 PM
see Penal Code 12020 both 2 and 3 are definetly a no no

bwiese
12-04-2007, 2:12 PM
50BMG rounds are perfectly legal to have in CA.

Billy clubs are a no-no. Whoever it is should convert it to matchsticks *NOW*.

Joke 'prop' handgrenades have caused people problems too.


NB: Destruction of such items does not erase the prior crime, it just raises the threshold of proof.

ar15barrels
12-04-2007, 2:16 PM
50BMG rounds are perfectly legal to have in CA.

I have a live 50BMG round on my desk at work.
People love to pick it up and say WOW.
Sometimes they ask if it's real and I answer "yep, I saved it from one of my shooting trips"
You would think the thing was radioactive by how fast some of them set it back down on my desk. :D

ar15barrels
12-04-2007, 2:17 PM
If it's filled with epoxy, yes. So I've been told, but have yet to confirm. If it's empty with just a hole in the bottom it isn't.
pc 12020.(a)(1)
However it does go on to say:

So does that mean that gang members can not even have one that's filled with epoxy?

CSACANNONEER
12-04-2007, 2:28 PM
Uh, I have "a few" rounds of 50BMG myself. I hope there legal or, all the work I've been doing preping 500 pieces of brass will be wasted.

milsurpshooter
12-04-2007, 2:28 PM
another law to set people up. screwed if keep it and screwed if you turn it in. gotta love the PRK.

jerryg1776
12-04-2007, 2:34 PM
I have a live 50BMG round on my desk at work.
People love to pick it up and say WOW.
Sometimes they ask if it's real and I answer "yep, I saved it from one of my shooting trips"
You would think the thing was radioactive by how fast some of them set it back down on my desk. :D

It really depends on the color of the tip. some are legal (ball) Some are not (AP Incendiary etc).

thedonger
12-04-2007, 2:43 PM
2. what looks to be a wooden billy club; old, probably antique, lathe-turned. It's short, maybe 14 inches long.

What constitutes a billy club? I once had an old wooden bat from when I was a kid something like 20 inches. Is it ok because it has Louisville Slugger on it?

MrTuffPaws
12-04-2007, 2:54 PM
If billy clubs are illegal, call it a tire thumper or fish basher. You can go to a sporting goods store and buy both.

edwardm
12-04-2007, 3:13 PM
Not quite.

12020 goes on...

(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to any of the following:

(15) Any plastic toy handgrenade, or any metal military practice
handgrenade or metal replica handgrenade that is a relic, curio,
memorabilia, or display item, that is filled with a permanent inert
substance or that is otherwise permanently altered in a manner that
prevents ready modification for use as a grenade.

If a hole in the bottom of the case isn't permanently altered, I don't know what is.

If it's filled with epoxy, yes. So I've been told, but have yet to confirm. If it's empty with just a hole in the bottom it isn't.
pc 12020.(a)(1)
However it does go on to say:

ldivinag
12-04-2007, 3:24 PM
If billy clubs are illegal, call it a tire thumper or fish basher. You can go to a sporting goods store and buy both.


you would be so surprised as to how many things you would use for defensive use is listed as an illegal weapon, to the eyes of the books.

i had a fellow CGN'er send me a POST workbook on non-firearm weapons.

lets just say if you carry a baseball BAT in your car for defensive purposes, you better have a mitt, a baseball and cleats at the same time...

Hunter
12-04-2007, 3:29 PM
If billy clubs are illegal, call it a tire thumper or fish basher. You can go to a sporting goods store and buy both.

Yep, mine is called a "Fish Knocker" and is sets on the boat. Now if I drove around with it in the car by itself, well then it could be seen as illegal. If I have my fishing gear with it, no problem.

ar15barrels
12-04-2007, 3:47 PM
It really depends on the color of the tip. some are legal (ball) Some are not (AP Incendiary etc).

This is an un-marked greek ball round.
I don't keep Raufoss rounds on my desk. ;)

Crazed_SS
12-04-2007, 4:55 PM
If billy clubs are illegal, call it a tire thumper or fish basher. You can go to a sporting goods store and buy both.

You need to be carefull with all that stuff.. I think there was even a post on here about the cops giving a guy hassle for having a 4 D-Cell Maglite. I wouldnt mess around with having any bats, batons, clubs, tire thumpers, etc in that car without having a good, legit reason.

fireblast713
12-04-2007, 5:02 PM
it's really illegal to drive around w/ a bat in your trunk... that seems odd...

AKman
12-04-2007, 6:59 PM
You need to be carefull with all that stuff.. I think there was even a post on here about the cops giving a guy hassle for having a 4 D-Cell Maglite. I wouldnt mess around with having any bats, batons, clubs, tire thumpers, etc in that car without having a good, legit reason.

If they have a problem with a Maglite, just tell them you are practicing to be a proctologist and are giving free exams:eek:. I have all sorts of things in my truck that could be considered a weapon, but all have a legal purpose.

Since the CHP won't change my flat tire, I carry a tire iron and a pipe for extra leverage. The pipe has tape on the handle for a better grip. Sure, it could make a nice weapon, but anyone who has changed a flat tire knows how hard the lug nuts can be to loosen after being on the car for a long time. If that is against the law, someone here just shoot me, please.

CSACANNONEER
12-04-2007, 7:26 PM
If they have a problem with a Maglite, just tell them you are practicing to be a proctologist and are giving free exams:eek:. I have all sorts of things in my truck that could be considered a weapon, but all have a legal purpose.

Since the CHP won't change my flat tire, I carry a tire iron and a pipe for extra leverage. The pipe has tape on the handle for a better grip. Sure, it could make a nice weapon, but anyone who has changed a flat tire knows how hard the lug nuts can be to loosen after being on the car for a long time. If that is against the law, someone here just shoot me, please.

I've needed extra leverage before too! Now, instead of carrying a pipe, I keep a 12 gauge under my seat. If I need to, I just slide the lug wrench into the barrel to get the leverage I need. It's legal to keep it under the back seat whereas, a piece of pipe could get me arrested.

pullnshoot25
12-04-2007, 7:52 PM
Since when has possessing ammunition been illegal? That doesn't make sense to me. Then again, neither do most of the laws.

The billy club rule is pretty lame, as a billy club could even be a pipe, for all intents and purposes. I would switch to the Cold Steel Brooklyn Smasher, at least you can use it in little league.

RossRinSD
12-04-2007, 8:00 PM
I had a baseball bat I used to roll the fenders on mine and my friends cars, then threw it back in my truck and went racing. Months later I actually got pulled over while towing a rented trailer that didn't have registration, and there was the bat, still laying on the backseat of my truck. I was questioned about it... I had no idea that was illegal. All I could do was tell the cop the truth... the end of the bat was all chewed up and blackened...

M. Sage
12-04-2007, 8:06 PM
it's really illegal to drive around w/ a bat in your trunk... that seems odd...

Welcome to California! Our laws don't make sense, so don't even try. :chris:

Richie Rich
12-04-2007, 8:36 PM
I have an arsenal in my work truck by Ca standards.

Sawzall, Fubar, claw hammer, 3 foot metal pipe, drywall saw, leatherman tool, several mag lights, circular saw, knife, razor blades, lengths of heavy gauge wire.

Boy, I am gonna get in trouble.

My other truck is almost as bad, I have an axe and a jack with a 3 foot metal pipe handle strapped to the roof rack.

So, a WWII era inert grenade with a the bottom cut out and no fuse is legal after all??

otteray
12-04-2007, 8:43 PM
I carry a 6' pike pole, in case I come across a log jam.
Is that legal?

AKman
12-04-2007, 9:07 PM
I've needed extra leverage before too! Now, instead of carrying a pipe, I keep a 12 gauge under my seat. If I need to, I just slide the lug wrench into the barrel to get the leverage I need. It's legal to keep it under the back seat whereas, a piece of pipe could get me arrested.

Now thats a really good idea. I could also carry a box of slugs in case I need to motivate the lug nuts to remove themselves.

savasyn
12-04-2007, 9:27 PM
Now thats a really good idea. I could also carry a box of slugs in case I need to motivate the lug nuts to remove themselves.

Funny you say that, just last weekend I heard a story about a guy who actually tried to use 00 buck on some rusted lugs from point blank. Needless to say, he got nailed with the ricochet. Dumb @$$!

I doubt slugs would be any kinder.

Army
12-04-2007, 11:27 PM
I thought the billy was only illegal, if it had a lanyard attached?

StraightShooter
12-04-2007, 11:39 PM
it's really illegal to drive around w/ a bat in your trunk... that seems odd...


Its also illegal to drive around or even walk around with bolt cutters, screw drivers, pliers or any other tools because they can charge you with posession of burglary tools which is a felony. Trust me, I have seen it happen. The case I saw got reduced to a misdemeanor but still, thats harsh.

AKman
12-05-2007, 7:28 AM
Its also illegal to drive around or even walk around with bolt cutters, screw drivers, pliers or any other tools because they can charge you with posession of burglary tools which is a felony. Trust me, I have seen it happen. The case I saw got reduced to a misdemeanor but still, thats harsh.

I'm sure there are all sorts of cases where people get arrested for carrying simple tools. However, I suspect there are extenuating circumstances well above and beyond simply carrying tools that result in an arrest, like a previous record or some other interaction with law enforcement, or simply looking like a real dirtbag. There is no way that I would ever accept any arrest or charges for walking around my neighborhood with tools of any kind. I don't worry about since it will never happen.

Jarhead4
12-05-2007, 7:59 AM
"Someone I know" has a few items that friends are always saying are illegal to simply possess in California. If that's true, he will dispose of them because he's a cautious kind of a guy. Here they are:

1. one live .50 cal round.
2. what looks to be a wooden billy club; old, probably antique, lathe-turned. It's short, maybe 14 inches long.
3. one inert, hole-in-the-bottom hand grenade. It's a joke "Complaint Dept - please take a number," mounted on wood. It is metal and appears to have once been a real grenade.

It's very hard for me to believe that any of these things could really be illegal. Are they? If so, how does one legally dispose of them?

Thanks.


For number one it is perfectly legal to have one. You might have to explain why you have it but it is legal.

The second one by definition is illegal. Having a tire thumper or a baseball bat can be classified as a billy club or baton if you don’t have a good reason for having them. If you are going to have a baseball bat in your car make sure you have a baseball glove and ball to go with it. A wooden dowel can be classified as a billy club if you are just walking around with it in your back pocket if you don’t have a good reason for it.

For the third one here are the exceptions

Under 12020 this is the exception for the hand grenade
(15) Any plastic toy hand grenade, or any metal military practice
hand grenade or metal replica hand grenade that is a relic, curio,
memorabilia, or display item, that is filled with a permanent inert
substance or that is otherwise permanently altered in a manner that
prevents ready modification for use as a grenade.

Here is another thing to remember, only military metal practice grenades are illegal to possess unless modified so it can't be made into a real hand grenade.

Jarhead4
12-05-2007, 8:02 AM
I carry a 6' pike pole, in case I come across a log jam.
Is that legal?

Yes as long as you can explain why you have it, and you have.

Hunter
12-05-2007, 8:08 AM
For number one it is perfectly legal to have one. ....

Only depending on the type of .50 cal it is . Basically AP, Ball, and commercial Solids are the only legal ones allowed in CA, essentially all other military .50 cal are banned.

69Mach1
12-05-2007, 8:12 AM
A little off topic, but what about the "car club" steering wheel lock. I haven't owned one in years, but the one I had, if you separated the two pieces you had a nice defensive tool. Not sure if the newer ones come apart. I also knew of a guy who used to sharpen the tip.:eek:

Jarhead4
12-05-2007, 8:13 AM
Only depending on the type of .50 cal it is . Basically AP, Ball, and commercial Solids are the only legal ones allowed in CA, essentially all other military .50 cal are banned.

True!

windrunner50
12-05-2007, 8:41 AM
#2 and #3....a No go, the .50bmg round not a problem.

sierratangofoxtrotunion
12-05-2007, 9:58 AM
What constitutes a billy club? I once had an old wooden bat from when I was a kid something like 20 inches. Is it ok because it has Louisville Slugger on it?

They still give those out at baseball games occasionally.

vortex
12-05-2007, 10:57 AM
Many thanks for all the responses. Here’s what I have learned:

1. live “ordinary” .50 cal round:
No problem.

2. old short wooden thing that looks like a billy club:
Highly illegal WMD. Can’t keep it. And remember, I’m talking about simply possessing it - in the house - not carrying it around in the car or on the person. It appears that it’s got to go in any case. Ridiculous, but true (in Kalifawneeya).
And even if a thing doesn’t look like a real billy club, but can be used as a club, you may be in trouble depending on circumstances.

3. inert hand grenade:
Should be no problem, especially as long as the grenade remains attached to the joke plaque. Thanks to “edwardm” for pointing out the exemption (subdivision 15) to Penal Code 12020 allowing inert hand grenades that are relics, curios, memorabilia, or display items.

Riodog
12-05-2007, 10:51 PM
Damn, all you wanna be attorneys. I guess I might as well turn myself in and go straight to jail. I own a company that makes tire thumpers and pin hooks (fifth-wheel hooks ) and from what my real attorneys tell me they are 100% legal. I manufacture 1 type out of stainless steel and 1 type out of bullet aluminum. I have NEVER had any feedback except "damn, those are purty". Granted, the majority of my product is utilized by commercial drivers and a tire bump is probably the least lethal weapon that the majority of those good ol' boys might be carrying but none-the-less. Before we start making blanket statements about which we know nothing about maybe we should do some homework first.

By the way, the reading that I get from my attorneys is that My product is legal as long as it "of one material". In my case that means either 100% aluminum or 100% stainless steel. I have been able to 'skirt' the legalities in offering an acrylic knob on the handle end as they get slippery in wet or icy weather. If I'm not mistaken the "bat" type referred to earlier were pulled off the market many years ago. Anything with a filler, band, etc->ie..to make it heavier-> are a no no.

I've been also advised that "INTENT" has a lot to do with your encounter with the authorities. Under no circumstances should you ever answer any question with "self defense". I also include this in my product statement on every package. "THIS IS A TOOL. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES IS THIS PRODUCT TO BE USED FOR ANY OTHER PURPOSE NOR WARRANTIED FOR ANY OTHER USE.

Besides, if you ain't doin anything wrong then don't worry about it or just carry a gun as that is only a misdemeanor.(in most cases).
Rio

Crazed_SS
12-06-2007, 12:05 AM
No one is saying bats, mag lites, or tire thumpers are illegal in and of themselves. It's the totallity of circumstances that would be considered.

NoobShooter
12-06-2007, 1:01 AM
BEST self defense weapon to have in the cabin of you car....

The adjustable steering wheel locks... you know what I'm talk about.. hardened steel and rubberized for better grip. On top of that, you can pull it apart and it's two weapons!!!!:49: