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View Full Version : Concealed Carry / Loaded Carry questions (non permit)


Salty
12-02-2007, 6:34 PM
1) This morning when I was setting up for a garage sale, I was reflecting back on a garage sale that we had earlier this year where we had a bunch of stuff stolen. Apart from the usual person or two trying to sneak in a couple of extra unauthorized items into their purchase, we had 3 guys come up and pull a distract and grab. It was only about $50 worth of stuff, but it still stung. That got me thinking about loaded concealed or open carry during the garage sale. Being unsure of the laws, and not owning a holster, I ended up passing this time around. Keep in mind that I don't have a CCW permit.

Question: Can I legally carry, open or concealed, a loaded hand gun in the garage / front yard area of my home? How about a duplex, or the hallways of an apartment building?

2) Question: Can you legally carry, open or concealed, a loaded hand gun while at work if you are not the owner of the business? How about in the parking lot at work? What if you drive for a living, can you carry in your vehicle?

P.S. We decided to use the Garage sale proceeds to buy ammo (my lady shoots too, actualy she was the one that got me into shooting). :D

Thanks!

USN CHIEF
12-02-2007, 7:06 PM
Salty.. Go to this website and you will get your answer on your question..

http://californiaccw.org/

CSDGuy
12-02-2007, 7:08 PM
I'll answer inline...
1) This morning when I was setting up for a garage sale, I was reflecting back on a garage sale that we had earlier this year where we had a bunch of stuff stolen. Apart from the usual person or two trying to sneak in a couple of extra unauthorized items into their purchase, we had 3 guys come up and pull a distract and grab. It was only about $50 worth of stuff, but it still stung. That got me thinking about loaded concealed or open carry during the garage sale. Being unsure of the laws, and not owning a holster, I ended up passing this time around. Keep in mind that I don't have a CCW permit.

Question: Can I legally carry, open or concealed, a loaded hand gun in the garage / front yard area of my home? How about a duplex, or the hallways of an apartment building?

In your garage, yes. In/on your front yard, or any other publicly accessible area, no. Hallways and other common area are NOT under your control, so you may NOT CCW there without a CCW License.

2) Question: Can you legally carry, open or concealed, a loaded hand gun while at work if you are not the owner of the business? How about in the parking lot at work? What if you drive for a living, can you carry in your vehicle?

Inside the strore, yes, you can carry openly with permission by the owner. Being the owner only allows you to CCW inside the store sans License. Carrying Concealed would require both a CCW License and permission to carry by the owner. Vehicles are not fixed places of business, so no, you can not carry a loaded weapon, even if it IS where you conduct your business.

P.S. We decided to use the Garage sale proceeds to buy ammo (my lady shoots too, actualy she was the one that got me into shooting). :D

Cool!

Thanks!
There are several websites that deal exclusively or nearly exclusively with this issue.
http://www.calccw.com - good site. Works within the laws.
http://www.californiaccw.org - good site. A more activist type site.
http://californiaconcealedcarry.com - no forum. Take Bull by Horns.
http://opencarry.org/ - go to the California subforum. There's a little good stuff there among the activism.

Visit them, poke around. Do your own research. Learn this stuff for yourself because it looks really bad if you go before the Judge to say: "I read this on an Internet Forum"...

There's a LOT out there and your chances of getting a CCW depend largely upon where you live in California.

FreedomIsNotFree
12-02-2007, 10:39 PM
1) This morning when I was setting up for a garage sale, I was reflecting back on a garage sale that we had earlier this year where we had a bunch of stuff stolen. Apart from the usual person or two trying to sneak in a couple of extra unauthorized items into their purchase, we had 3 guys come up and pull a distract and grab. It was only about $50 worth of stuff, but it still stung. That got me thinking about loaded concealed or open carry during the garage sale. Being unsure of the laws, and not owning a holster, I ended up passing this time around. Keep in mind that I don't have a CCW permit.

Question: Can I legally carry, open or concealed, a loaded hand gun in the garage / front yard area of my home? How about a duplex, or the hallways of an apartment building?

2) Question: Can you legally carry, open or concealed, a loaded hand gun while at work if you are not the owner of the business? How about in the parking lot at work? What if you drive for a living, can you carry in your vehicle?

P.S. We decided to use the Garage sale proceeds to buy ammo (my lady shoots too, actualy she was the one that got me into shooting). :D

Thanks!


1. You can carry, either openly or concealed anywhere on your property. That would include the garage and front yard. However, it might be in your benefit to be prudent with the open carry. Depending on your neighborhood it could draw unneeded attention. From thieves to the overly concerned soccer mom.

2. You can NOT carry a gun, either openly or concealed, on another's property, or job site, without the permission of the owner. Its not a crime, but you can be told to leave...if its your job...you could be told to leave permanently.

As to the legalities of transporting in vehicles, I suggest you search the forum here for those particular threads. Too much info to cover in this thread.

Liberty1
12-03-2007, 12:35 AM
http://www.paul.net/guns/CaliforniaOpenCarry.pdf

Be sure to read the full text of the laws quoted for more understanding.

Be aware of this: http://www.calccw.com/Forums/legal/539-people-v-overturf-carrying-private-property-outdoors.html

and compare with

http://law.justia.com/california/codes/pen/12020-12040.html

12026. (a) Section 12025 shall not apply to or affect any citizen
of the United States or legal resident over the age of 18 years who
resides or is temporarily within this state, and who is not within
the excepted classes prescribed by Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this
code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code,
who carries, either openly or concealed, anywhere within the citizen'
s or legal resident's place of residence, place of business, or on
private property owned or lawfully possessed by the citizen or legal
resident any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being
concealed upon the person.

(b) No permit or license to purchase, own, possess, keep, or
carry, either openly or concealed, shall be required of any citizen
of the United States or legal resident over the age of 18 years who
resides or is temporarily within this state, and who is not within
the excepted classes prescribed by Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this
code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, to
purchase, own, possess, keep, or carry, either openly or concealed,
a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon
the person within the citizen's or legal resident's place of
residence, place of business, or on private property owned or
lawfully possessed by the citizen or legal resident.

(c) Nothing in this section shall be construed as affecting the
application of Section 12031.

So the question now becomes, "Is your front yard/garage a "public place" regulated by 12031?"

12031. (a) (1) A person is guilty of carrying a loaded firearm when
he or she carries a loaded firearm on his or her person or in a
vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an
incorporated city or in any public place or on any public street in a
prohibited area of unincorporated territory.

(f) As used in this section, "prohibited area" means any place
where it is unlawful to discharge a weapon.

(g) A firearm shall be deemed to be loaded for the purposes of
this section when there is an unexpended cartridge or shell,
consisting of a case that holds a charge of powder and a bullet or
shot, in, or attached in any manner to, the firearm, including, but
not limited to, in the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof
attached to the firearm; except that a muzzle-loader firearm shall be
deemed to be loaded when it is capped or primed and has a powder
charge and ball or shot in the barrel or cylinder.

(h) Nothing in this section shall prevent any person engaged in
any lawful business, including a nonprofit organization, or any
officer, employee, or agent authorized by that person for lawful
purposes connected with that business, from having a loaded firearm
within the person's place of business, or any person in lawful
possession of private property from having a loaded firearm on that
property.

(l) Nothing in this section shall prevent any person from having a
loaded weapon, if it is otherwise lawful, at his or her place of
residence, including any temporary residence or campsite.

N6ATF
12-03-2007, 12:43 AM
If the thieves are itching for a gunfight, it would be unneeded attention. If they were looking for an easy mark, open carry would be just the kind of attention you'd want.

Not that you'd go shooting shoplifters.

artherd
12-03-2007, 2:19 AM
"Public area of Private property" is the troublesome phrase here.

I believe this *has* been adjudicated for apartment buildings (owner of apartment building pinched in a public area of his private property, illegal CCW charges stuck.)

I am not aware of any case law on a public area of private property (eg driveway) where the private property was a single-family residence.

CitaDeL
12-03-2007, 6:35 AM
If the thieves are itching for a gunfight, it would be unneeded attention. If they were looking for an easy mark, open carry would be just the kind of attention you'd want.

Not that you'd go shooting shoplifters.

Yeah- the only place I have seen anyone 'itching for a gunfight' is in spaghetti westerns and 1990's action flick's about 'gangsta' life. In other words, unless supported by anecdote or news story, it is a misconception based in fiction and whimsy. I completely disagree that open carry would make you an 'easy mark'... If that were so, police would conceal their weapons for fear of being targeted.

As for the legality of open or concealed carry on your property it is legal- If you are inside city limits, I would excersize more caution if you choose to be openly armed... It is possible for PC12031 ( this law prohibited loaded weapons in public places) may be misapplied in circumstances where you are inviting the public to your private property.

CitaDeL
12-03-2007, 6:45 AM
Salty.. Go to this website and you will get your answer on your question..

http://californiaccw.org/

I'm sorry- Is calguns somehow insufficient in answering gun related questions?

If my memory serves me correctly CaliforniaCCW only addresses issues relating to 'CCW' (ie; licenses to carry concealed) and strictly prohibit discussions regarding open carry and certainly discourage any form of carry without a permission slip doled out by issuing authorities.

So that being said- I dont see how promoting that webforum is beneficial when we already have a substantial collective of knowledgable firearms proponents right here in Cal Guns.

Salty
12-03-2007, 9:04 AM
Thanks for the replies, I think I got the answers that I was looking for. :)