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scrat
12-01-2007, 7:27 PM
Just like the thread says. My parents were over tonight. Then we were about to eat when there was a knock at the door. A police officer was at the door. Asked if i was Scott. Said yep. he asked if i can come outside. Said ok

Then i went outside outside he said that someone made a complaint at the station and the sgt told him to go check it out. Said that someone said that i make ammuniton on weekends. I looked at him and said ok. SO

I said i do make ammo for myself. WHY

he said because someone complained that it smells when i make ammo. I looked at him and said thats impossible. He asked me if i kept the stuff here. i said yes. i have i think 4 or 5 bottles of powder. He asked how big. i said a pound. OR less now. I said come on inside i will show you.

he came in i went to the hall closet. opened it up pulled a bottle out. opened it. Said does this smell to you. He laughed and said. No. he said he was just doing his job. He had to see. He asked if that was all i had. I said yes. then he asked me for my id so he can do his paperwork.


Now by that time my mom was ready to flip seeing a police officer in the house.
When he left i had to reassure her that it was totally legal to load ammunition.

So now my question.
1st who told him. Both my neighbors know i reload. I even went shooting with one of them.

2nd What is the legal limits of how much powder or ammo you can have at your place of residence. i live in Southern California los angeles county.

dondo
12-01-2007, 7:33 PM
I smell bad trout.

hoffmang
12-01-2007, 7:34 PM
You handled it well, but in the future don't invite him in. Bring your powder out to let him smell it.

All in all, a very strange encounter. You really need to think through how you might have offended some neighbor (even if you actually did nothing wrong) so you can at least home to address the issue.

-Gene

bwiese
12-01-2007, 7:34 PM
[I'm betting that 'smell reports' trigger meth lab investigations. That's probably what this was cover for...]

You should not have gone outside, talked to him thru the door, should not have invited him in - and just informed the officer that it's perfectly legal to load/reload ammo for personal use for sport shooting.

You should then tell them that's all you're gonna discuss, and they're welcome to get a warrant.

dondo
12-01-2007, 7:44 PM
Bear with me, it is relevant. There is this house acroos the street from us. My wife calls it "Boo Radleys" house. A very very creepy and intreverted inbred family lives there and there is a daughter that never leaves the house, screams like crazy and the wierdest stuff happens all the tie. I have called 911 at least 10 different times. At least 7 times I have spoken to officers about the daughter and the obviously horrible conditions there. Another neighbor called socail services and other investigators. Nothing ever happened. Officers would tell us at the scene there was nothing they could do and we should call this person, this person would say there was nothing they could do call this person.
So you could imprison and abuse someone and 100's of calls and not so much as a visit, but someone can say something regarding a gun or ammunition and you have swat at your door. Like I said in another post, I think it might just be better if the poles of the Earth suddenly reversed themselves and we all were ejected into a low orbit.

Blue
12-01-2007, 7:46 PM
Do you cast bullets?

scrat
12-01-2007, 7:50 PM
yep there you go. Cast bullets. but its been about 3 weeks since i casted any.

Mark_in_Pasadena
12-01-2007, 8:08 PM
yep there you go. Cast bullets. but its been about 3 weeks since i casted any.


Do you ever load .308? I'd be interested in learning how.....;)

scrat
12-01-2007, 8:10 PM
i load 30-30. its pretty easy. same time for cast bullets. you can use a 170 grain. i cast 170 grn lead. no big deal though. or you can purchase bullets from either turners or lock stock and barrel. they have a class on reloading at angeles ranges.

Diablo
12-01-2007, 8:13 PM
I said come on inside i will show you.:kest:

Mark_in_Pasadena
12-01-2007, 8:13 PM
l. they have a class on reloading at angeles ranges.


Oh sweet.... Thanks for the heads up.......:cool:

BTW - Never let police into your house, unless you called them because your girlfriend is trying to stab you with a knife......:eek:

Addax
12-02-2007, 12:55 AM
Do you reload in the garage? If so, possibly with the door open?

Maybe some passer by or a neighbor down the street saw what you were doing and decided to complain?

metalhead357
12-02-2007, 12:59 AM
Pine scented Ammo and lemon scented lead....comming to a reloader-shop near you:chris:

DUDE! I'd be over at the neighbors right about now with some cherry pie and making sweet talk to find out who it was.............

Bobula
12-02-2007, 1:02 AM
Why is everyone so against an LEO in their home. I, being a law abiding citizen have never denied an LEO a consent search. I just don't see the point to it.

StraightShooter
12-02-2007, 1:02 AM
Do you cast bullets?

Just curious.... does casting bullets smell alot or something? I have worked at an electronics company before where they have solder pots and the lead solder smell a little but you cant smell if from more than 3 feet away.

hoffmang
12-02-2007, 1:26 AM
Why is everyone so against an LEO in their home. I, being a law abiding citizen have never denied an LEO a consent search. I just don't see the point to it.

Are you sure that you don't have any violation of federal, state, or local law, or something that might look like a violation inside your home? Sure you care to have an officer closer to a place where he can get confused about what you own?

I'm squeaky clean, but I'm not going to allow an officer into my home without a warrant, ever. I'll be nice and help him as much as I can while he stands on my front porch. I'll even bring him a lawn chair.

However, why would you be so willing to let the law enforcement division of the government into your private space? Might as well send your checking account details to the IRS just in case too...

-Gene

metalhead357
12-02-2007, 1:38 AM
Are you sure that you don't have any violation of federal, state, or local law, or something that might look like a violation inside your home? Sure you care to have an officer closer to a place where he can get confused about what you own?

I'm squeaky clean, but I'm not going to allow an officer into my home without a warrant, ever. I'll be nice and help him as much as I can while he stands on my front porch. I'll even bring him a lawn chair.

However, why would you be so willing to let the law enforcement division of the government into your private space? Might as well send your checking account details to the IRS just in case too...

-Gene

Gene...I think you're my brother from a different motha'...I couln't have said it better myself no matter how hard I tried.

socalguns
12-02-2007, 1:45 AM
Do you know what kind of DOG DOO DOO they walk in every day?
You think a LEO is going to take his shoes off for you?
Would you have denied a body cavity search?

jumbopanda
12-02-2007, 2:33 AM
Inviting a LEO inside your home is an EPIC FAIL.

scrat
12-02-2007, 7:27 AM
casting lead bullets does smell and hurl up fumes. When how.

first you set up your pot. i have a lee production

i put in about 5 bars of lead. then wait for everything to melt

i then use an old flat screw driver. to comb the sides and bottom. Then i had a pea size amount of regular wax. This is when the smoke and smell comes up. it usually will last for about a minute. while its doing this i am stirring up the lead as much as i can. All the dirt and orange junk comes up to the top.

After about a minute the smell and smoke is gone. Then i scoop up all the junk and dump it in a small can. I usually do this twice. This is what is called fluxing.

After fluxing is done. There is no smell or anything else. its just a matter of pouring the metal into the molds.

M. Sage
12-02-2007, 8:01 AM
Why is everyone so against an LEO in their home. I, being a law abiding citizen have never denied an LEO a consent search. I just don't see the point to it.

Because once they're in, you can't kick 'em out. :TFH:

Because I know I'm a law-abiding citizen, so I'll save them the trouble of the search. :p

wheelgunner
12-02-2007, 8:36 AM
Answer to second question.

Check with local fire department for any other regulations they may have.

18 years ago I checked with Hayward Fire Dept and they go by NFPA standards.

Limits for storage and transportation National Fire Protection Association, NFPA 495-85.

Alliant Powder storage and handling:
http://www.alliantpowder.com/safety/storage.htm

10-3.7 Smokeless propellants intended for personal use in quantities not exceeding 20 lb (9.1 kg) may be stored in original containers in residences. Quantities exceeding 20 lb (9.1 kg), but not exceeding 50 lb (22.7 kg), may be stored in residences if kept in a wooden box or cabinet having walls or at least 1-inc. (25.4-mm) nominal thickness.

10-3 SMOKELESS PROPELLANTS. 10-3.1 Quantities of smokeless propellants not exceeding 25 LB (11.3kg), in shipping containers approved by the U.S. Department of Transportation, may be transported in a private vehicle.

10-3.2 Quantities of smokeless propellants exceeding 25 lb (11.3kg) but not exceeding 50 lb (22.7 kg), transported in a private vehicle, shall be transported in a portable magazine having wood walls of at least 1-inc. (25.4-mm) nominal thickness.

10-3.3 Transportation of more than 50 lb (22.7 kg) of smokeless propellants in a private vehicle is prohibited.

Glock22Fan
12-02-2007, 10:05 AM
The main reason that you shouldn't let police nose around when you have nothing to hide is that we don't want to give them the idea that only guilty people deny a search.

It may be that you have piles of dirty underwear that you are embarrassed to have seen. Maybe you haven't scrubbed the baseboards recently. Maybe you just like your privacy. There's no need for them to see your house, unless there is a good cause for a warrent.

People on this forum are rightly keen to defend the 2nd. Let's defend the 4th as well, (and all the others, of course.)

fairfaxjim
12-02-2007, 10:31 AM
he said because someone complained that it smells when i make ammo.

I would have told him (through my screen door), "oh that's all, I can fix that. I'll just light up a big doobie next time I relaod, thanks for the heads up!" "I gotta go finish my dinner now." "Bye."

That "I don't wanna hassle you, I'm just doing my job, I had to see" is a big crock-O-S**T" If he had to "see" your side, why didn't he have to "smell" your neighbors side. He took them for their word, I would have expected him to take me at mine, end of discussion.

The truth is that, on an institutional level, most LE organizations are scared to death of citizens having firearms, and will do almost anything to discourage them. That policy has been drifting down through the rank and file for a long time now, and makes having a firearm in the presence of an LEO very risky. That risk in itself is enough to heed Gene's advice, don't let them in without a warrant. I would go so far to say if you need 911 medical help, move the injured person outdoors, because once the EMT's are called LE will come too and you have no way of preventing their entry, you called.

MudCamper
12-02-2007, 10:41 AM
Why is everyone so against an LEO in their home. I, being a law abiding citizen have never denied an LEO a consent search. I just don't see the point to it.

Because Constitutional rights are like muscles. If you don't exercise them, they atrophy and eventually die. Use your logic with the 2nd Ammendment and see what kind of reaction it gets. i.e. just surrender your guns now and be done with it.

hung380
12-02-2007, 10:51 AM
I think your neighbor was smelling his/hers own upper lip:p

Bagger
12-02-2007, 12:22 PM
Sounds like you handled it perfect you didnt have anying thing to hide.

thats common pratice for them to ask you for id and your date of birth.
for there paper work.

chickenfried
12-02-2007, 12:38 PM
Because there are much easier ways to make new friends than welcoming a LEO into my home for a little chat. Because I don't want to be inconvenienced or feel uncomfortable in my own home when I've done nothing wrong.


Why is everyone so against an LEO in their home. I, being a law abiding citizen have never denied an LEO a consent search. I just don't see the point to it.

sloguy
12-02-2007, 12:39 PM
Sounds like you handled it perfect you didnt have anying thing to hide.


hahahaha. wrong, he let them into the house.

SkyStorm82
12-02-2007, 2:08 PM
The guy shows up....knew it was BS....had a little look so he can say that he did a complete followup....took the OP's name down so he can put that he contacted so and so and determined that everything was cool.

That's my take on the whole situation.

dondo
12-02-2007, 2:37 PM
Because I don't want to be inconvenienced or feel uncomfortable in my own home when I've done nothing wrong.
Boom. Well said.

artherd
12-03-2007, 1:52 AM
Why is everyone so against an LEO in their home.

Because they exist as adversarial entities, even (and sometimes especially) to the law abiding.

Because my time and sanctity of my home is valuable to me, and it shall not be disturbed lightly or voluntarily.

Fjold
12-03-2007, 9:11 AM
Why is everyone so against an LEO in their home. I, being a law abiding citizen have never denied an LEO a consent search. I just don't see the point to it.


I'm not a cop basher in anyway but if the police are knocking on your door to investigate something concerning you, they are not there to be your friend.

WolfMansDad
12-03-2007, 9:26 AM
Why is everyone so against an LEO in their home. I, being a law abiding citizen have never denied an LEO a consent search. I just don't see the point to it.

I've had both friends and family who were police officers, and even they tell me not to consent to a search.

The law has become so byzantine that you really can not know whether or not you are breaking it inadvertently. We are all up on our firearms laws, or should be, but how well do you know your knife laws? You are aware that martial arts weapons are pretty much all illegal, didn't you? (It came as a surprise to me.) Are you sure all your pets are legal? Are ferrets banned statewide, for instance, or is that just a local ordinance? What about certain species of parrots?

You say you are a law-abiding citizen, but you can't really know that. Do you really want to find out the hard way that ownership of that dieffenbachia in the corner was declared a felony last year, and nobody told you?

davedog665
12-03-2007, 10:05 AM
I'm not a cop basher in anyway but if the police are knocking on your door to investigate something concerning you, they are not there to be your friend.


Ya exactly im not a cop but i know dam well when they come into your home they are taught to look for illegal and suspious stuff. And many have stated the laws are whacky.

I don't like how cops are always trying to trick you into consenting a search. "sir can we come in to talk" ok sure then there looking all around as they talk to you. the next thing they will prob. say is do you have firearms in the house for our safety can you take a seat while we inspect them.

StukaJr
12-03-2007, 11:14 AM
I'm not sure what's going on here - your neighbor probably complained of a smell of lead bullet casting and improperly worded the complaint... I don't know about the health hazards of casting lead when you do it outside or just how much the smell spreads...

Either way, calling the law on your neighbor is a good way to be disregarded in the future - that's a bad neighbor... A lot of household duties require some unfortunate smells - tarring the roof or burning the shrubs - if it's within the law and not every weekend then it's just part of living next to other bipeds...

Do make sure that casting lead is a-OK within you local ordinance and whatever other laws may apply - don't want another complaint to be filed, with proper wording and such...

JCG
12-03-2007, 1:39 PM
In my experience, last time my ex-wife (wife at the time) called the cops (she faked an assualt) and invited them inside our house they decided to charge me with two felonies on legal guns!

The part that was more scary, they saw gallons of solvents, acetone, denatured alchohol, mineral spirits (that I used to clean and restore guns with) and told her that the could try and charge me with attempt to manufacter Methanphetamines!!!!!!

Luckily for me she said no......

So, I agree I would NEVER let them in without a warrant

ViPER395
12-03-2007, 2:29 PM
This thread is awesome.

Some great advice here.

AJAX22
12-03-2007, 2:56 PM
I have nothing to hide, but I will never consent to a search. Its not a slight against the officers.

Exactly what do I have to gain from them poking through my posessions and examining my residence?

Do I get a blue ribbon for having my polo shirts organized by color and sleve length?

Is the Police department going to buy me a years supply of Rice-a-Roni if my safe is tidy?

If the answer to the above questions is NO, then why exactly should I consent to a search?

Bishop
12-03-2007, 3:35 PM
I'm pretty pro-cop (a few in the family), and if you would have asked me if I'd allow a polite cop who was "just doing a follow up" into my place of residence, I would have said yes. But you guys have made some very good points, and I think you're all right. I will be exercising my 4th amendment right from now on. And also-- oh wait, what's that on my head?! :TFH: :D

edit: just poking fun at the end, but I wasn't kidding about not consenting.

scrat
12-03-2007, 3:50 PM
You know what i just came back from work. I was suprised to see how much this thread has progressed. I was and still am a little tdddd off on the whole situation. If any one has casted out of lead they know that the lead itself does not smell or anything. Its when you flux it. I always use candle was when i flux. i take a small pea size amount and throw it in. It smells to me like candle wax. But it does smoke a good amount for about a minute and by the time you finished stirring it up and scooping out the junk. The smell is gone.

Kinda funny but i have a really strong itch to take out some molds and start making Jigs for fishing. Maybe i should spend the next week casting jigs. Its soo cool. I have so many molds. You open up the mold place some fishing hooks in the molds. Then heat up some lead and heat up the mold then pour the lead It will make about 5 in one shot. Then you can either use one of those plastic worms to put on them or paint the lead. Wow so what do you guys think. Should i cast some fishing weights and lours. As for police officers visiting my house. Im kinda glad it happened as i know for the future to never invite a Police Officer in my house.

metalhead357
12-03-2007, 5:56 PM
If the answer to the above questions is NO, then why exactly should I consent to a search?


So you can start your very own thread and entitle it....EPIC FAIL;)

Anthony
12-03-2007, 6:38 PM
For people that carry inside their homes, and you get a knock on your door from a cop for a neighbor complaint, what do yo do?

Tell the officer to hold on and go back in and put a way your carry and come out.

OR

Just go out instead of letting the cop in and pretend that nothing is behind you?

dondo
12-03-2007, 7:01 PM
In my experience, last time my ex-wife (wife at the time) called the cops (she faked an assualt) and invited them inside our house they decided to charge me with two felonies on legal guns!

The part that was more scary, they saw gallons of solvents, acetone, denatured alchohol, mineral spirits (that I used to clean and restore guns with) and told her that the could try and charge me with attempt to manufacter Methanphetamines!!!!!!

Luckily for me she said no......

So, I agree I would NEVER let them in without a warrant
AND MOST IMPORTANTLY...don't get married.

metalhead357
12-03-2007, 7:20 PM
Well, as long as the area that you are going out onto is still your property, you should be legal to carry (openly or concealed), AFAIK.


this has come up on quite a few boards, and even here of recent. Its NOT a certainty by any means that even though your front yard is your front yard that you are exempted with CC carry unless of course you have a CCW. I'd venture to say you're NOT covered/exempted from all my readings on such................YMMV and this aint legal advice!

packnrat
12-03-2007, 7:35 PM
Why is everyone so against an LEO in their home. I, being a law abiding citizen have never denied an LEO a consent search. I just don't see the point to it.

even if you think you are in the right, the police are trained to look for ANYTHING that they can arest you for.

and after you have invited them in, NO warrant needed for a search of the whole house....for any item belived might be there.


remember: anything you say will be used agenst you in court.

.

hoffmang
12-03-2007, 8:06 PM
metalhead,

If the property is your exclusive curtillage (look it up) then you have the right to CCW without a permit. I would suggest staying out of 50-50 right of way (some distance from the road shoulder.)

What has been shown that being the property owner of a common area at an apartment or similar high density residential area with broad access isn't a place you can CCW without a permit.

-Gene

metalhead357
12-03-2007, 8:31 PM
metalhead,

If the property is your exclusive curtillage (look it up) then you have the right to CCW without a permit. I would suggest staying out of 50-50 right of way (some distance from the road shoulder.)

What has been shown that being the property owner of a common area at an apartment or similar high density residential area with broad access isn't a place you can CCW without a permit.

-Gene

Oh no doubts here about the common access areas and apartments & whatnots...What's got me intrigued has been the fanfare on some sites about your property essentially being enclosed...enclosed by walls, fences, gates...Something tha definitetively says you are no longer on *public* property and that said property is NOT available as a publically available route (ie like walking across your lawn).

I'd LOVE an opinion from the DOJ <DOH> What AM I saying?:TFH:

Anthony
12-03-2007, 8:39 PM
I guess you're suppose to say, hold on officer, let my put away my gun and I'll come out :D:D

metalhead357
12-03-2007, 8:45 PM
the Smell aspect of this got me to remebering back in HS on cruise night of a time one of my buddies was stopped; we had to laugh and pulled over too to watch the fray...long story short, cop asks him to pop the trunk...he does and cop finds a clear bottle labeled window cleaner with clear liquid in it. Cop asks "Whats in the bottle?" Friend says- Just what it says. Cop unscrews the top and takes a BIG wiff and promptly proceeded to stagger and just about fell over to one knee:eek: Cop asks again- WHATS IN THIS? Friend says - Like I told you- WINDOW CLEANER. Cop looks all bleary eyed, teary, and says No I mean WHAT IS THIS STUFF MADE OF? Friend says 100% ammonia:D

pnkssbtz
12-03-2007, 8:55 PM
the Smell aspect of this got me to remebering back in HS on cruise night of a time one of my buddies was stopped; we had to laugh and pulled over too to watch the fray...long story short, cop asks him to pop the trunk...he does and cop finds a clear bottle labeled window cleaner with clear liquid in it. Cop asks "Whats in the bottle?" Friend says- Just what it says. Cop unscrews the top and takes a BIG wiff and promptly proceeded to stagger and just about fell over to one knee:eek: Cop asks again- WHATS IN THIS? Friend says - Like I told you- WINDOW CLEANER. Cop looks all bleary eyed, teary, and says No I mean WHAT IS THIS STUFF MADE OF? Friend says 100% ammonia:D
Bahahaahahahhaahahahaahaa......

artherd
12-04-2007, 12:28 AM
Last time I ran into a police officer when I was legally carrying (openly, loaded and holstered, legally.) I kept the loaded gun on my hip while we had a little chat.

He's keeping his, why should I not be allowed mine?

For people that carry inside their homes, and you get a knock on your door from a cop for a neighbor complaint, what do yo do?

Tell the officer to hold on and go back in and put a way your carry and come out.

OR

Just go out instead of letting the cop in and pretend that nothing is behind you?

artherd
12-04-2007, 12:31 AM
So, what happens when the cop conducts an illegal search in my car and decides to smell the container in my trunk labeled "phosgene"?

Think of it as evolution in action...

DedEye
12-04-2007, 1:59 AM
So, what happens when the cop conducts an illegal search in my car and decides to smell the container in my trunk labeled "phosgene"?

Something slightly worse than if he found and smelled the jenkem?

soopafly
12-04-2007, 11:29 AM
A police officer was at the door. Asked if i was Scott. Said yep. he asked if i can come outside. Said okYou should buy this door mat–learn it, live it, love it:
http://www.forcounsel.com/products/8220.jpg

milsurpshooter
12-04-2007, 12:20 PM
Well, as long as the area that you are going out onto is still your property, you should be legal to carry (openly or concealed), AFAIK.

doesn't mean you won't get gunned down by a rookie with two kids at home

ar15barrels
12-04-2007, 12:28 PM
I said come on inside i will show you.

WOW.
Just WOW.

http://www.forcounsel.com/products/8220.jpg

Better plan.

CaliforniaCarry
12-04-2007, 12:40 PM
That doormat is awesome. Seriously, I think I'm actually going to order one. Now if I can just replace the "Welcome" mat without the wife noticing... :chris:

M. Sage
12-04-2007, 6:51 PM
You should buy this door mat–learn it, live it, love it:
http://www.forcounsel.com/products/8220.jpg

Where can I get it!?

NM, I see the link now. :p
http://www.forcounsel.com/productDetails_c.asp?productid=8220

rynando
12-05-2007, 2:18 PM
Amazon sells it too:

http://www.amazon.com/High-Cotton-Come-Warrant-Doormat/dp/B00020O572

lawnrevenge
12-05-2007, 2:41 PM
So, what happens when the cop conducts an illegal search in my car and decides to smell the container in my trunk labeled "phosgene"?
Something slightly worse than if he found and smelled the jenkem?

I actually wish I had a trunk now...

Bottle of Yohoo left to ferment and label it jenkem :43:

Parag
12-05-2007, 7:41 PM
So, what happens when the cop conducts an illegal search in my car and decides to smell the container in my trunk labeled "phosgene"?

Hm - doesn't that problem solve itself? :)

-- Parag