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View Full Version : Why isn't CA DL Proof of Residence?


Shotgun Man
11-29-2007, 9:26 PM
Every time I buy a gun, I gotta run out to my car and produce my vehicle registration to prove my residency, even though I've also produced a CA driver's license with a current CA address! Can someone please explain this to me? Doesn't my DMV-issued DL prove my residency?

As an aside, I've been to the Library and asked for a library card, and they demanded that I produce a utility bill or something, not accepting my word or my DL as to my address. Mind you, I could be a resident of another county or city and they'd give me a library card, but they want a utility bill to prove your address. Your DL just doesn't suffice.

How bizarre.

hoffmang
11-29-2007, 9:34 PM
Simply, the California Legislature and the DOJ have decided to make it harder for you to purchase a handgun. There are some marginal arguments that the address on your DL may not actually be your residence, but its both rare and doesn't really matter.

-Gene

FortCourageArmory
11-29-2007, 9:35 PM
Mostly because the DOJ requires us to gather that information from you. Here's the info direct from their website:

What is the process for purchasing a firearm in California?
All firearms purchases and transfers, including private party transactions and sales at gun shows, must be made through a licensed dealer under the Dealer Record of Sale (DROS) process. California imposes a 10-day waiting period before a firearm can be released to a buyer or transferee. A person must be at least 18 years of age to purchase a rifle or shotgun. To buy a handgun, a person must be at least 21 years of age, and either 1) possess an HSC plus successfully complete a safety demonstration with the handgun being purchased or 2) qualify for an HSC exemption.

As part of the DROS process, the buyer must present "clear evidence of identity and age" which is defined as a valid, non-expired California Driver's License or Identification Card issued by the Department of Motor Vehicles. A military identification accompanied by permanent duty station orders indicating a posting in California is also acceptable.

If the buyer is not a U.S. Citizen, then he or she is required to demonstrate that he or she is legally within the United States by providing to the firearms dealer with documentation that contains his/her Alien Registration Number or I-94 Number.

Purchasers of handguns are also required to provide proof of California residency, such as a utility bill, residential lease, property deed, or government-issued identification (other than a drivers license or other DMV-issued identification).

(PC Section 12071)

FFLs aren't just trying to give you a hard time by asking for all that info. We are just trying to follow the rules.

Shotgun Man
11-29-2007, 9:41 PM
Mostly because the DOJ requires us to gather that information from you. Here's the info direct from their website:



FFLs aren't just trying to give you a hard time by asking for all that info. We are just trying to follow the rules.

That's some helpful info. Thank you.

Wulf
11-29-2007, 9:45 PM
Just get a ccw. It does double duty as a proof of residence and your BFSC or what ever they're calling the training thing these days.

Shotgun Man
11-29-2007, 9:53 PM
Just get a ccw. It does double duty as a proof of residence and your BFSC or what ever they're calling the training thing these days.

Okay, I'll do that once I move to Kern County, or some other rural place, where, BTW, I probably would love to live. It's not like I'm going to the opera out here in LA. The main thing I like about where I live is its close proximity to the ocean, plus I got my job to consider.

I don't think a CCW is in the works for me this year or next.

kermit315
11-29-2007, 9:54 PM
if only it were easy to get a ccw. i think i am going to have to wait till i get different orders to somewhere else (i am trying to stay in the area, but it isnt looking good....damn, i hate moving.)

Grouch
11-29-2007, 9:54 PM
Just get a ccw.

Because thats easy!

Knauga
11-29-2007, 11:18 PM
Okay, I'll do that once I move to Kern County, or some other rural place, where, BTW, I probably would love to live. It's not like I'm going to the opera out here in LA. The main thing I like about where I live is its close proximity to the ocean, plus I got my job to consider.

I don't think a CCW is in the works for me this year or next.

San Bernardino County isn't rural ;)

I live less than 10 miles from my buddy who can't get a CCW in HIS county

hitman13
11-29-2007, 11:23 PM
Mostly because the DOJ requires us to gather that information from you. Here's the info direct from their website:



FFLs aren't just trying to give you a hard time by asking for all that info. We are just trying to follow the rules.


would a CA DL and a CA ID do it?

i have always used a mil id and a DL

M. Sage
11-29-2007, 11:33 PM
would a CA DL and a CA ID do it?

i have always used a mil id and a DL

(other than a drivers license or other DMV-issued identification)

No, a CA ID won't do it.

FortCourageArmory
11-29-2007, 11:44 PM
If you read the bolded portion of my quote you'd have the answer:

Purchasers of handguns are also required to provide proof of California residency, such as a utility bill, residential lease, property deed, or government-issued identification (other than a drivers license or other DMV-issued identification).

So, no it wouldn't work.

EDITED: Didn't see M. Sage's response....sorry for the double tap.

tenpercentfirearms
11-30-2007, 6:18 AM
Practically speaking, anyone can put just about any address on their DMV issued ID. You can even put a PO Box. So the DMV ID doesn't real prove where you live.

Also, they just want you to feel has hassled as possible so you will be discouraged and not buy a gun. Or buy a gun illegally instead. :rolleyes:

Sgt Raven
11-30-2007, 6:37 AM
Practically speaking, anyone can put just about any address on their DMV issued ID. You can even put a PO Box. So the DMV ID doesn't real prove where you live.

Also, they just want you to feel has hassled as possible so you will be discouraged and not buy a gun. Or buy a gun illegally instead. :rolleyes:


When I lived in an area that didn't have street delivery for our mail I had a PO Box for my address, but DMV required my street address, and put it below the height/weight area on my license. ;)

Crazed_SS
11-30-2007, 7:27 AM
Simply, the California Legislature and the DOJ have decided to make it harder for you to purchase a handgun. There are some marginal arguments that the address on your DL may not actually be your residence, but its both rare and doesn't really matter.

-Gene

I dont think it's that rare.. I notice on "Cops", they always look at people's licenses and ask if they still live at the address printed on the license. I still have my address from two residences ago on my license.. I'd get it fixed, but I dont feel like waiting in those DMV lines are paying the fee to change it.

trashman
11-30-2007, 7:33 AM
Every time I buy a gun, I gotta run out to my car and produce my vehicle registration to prove my residency, even though I've also produced a CA driver's license with a current CA address! Can someone please explain this to me? Doesn't my DMV-issued DL prove my residency?


It's sort of a stone-age version of two-factor authentication. One issue with the CA DL is that you might not live in this state any longer - but might still have a CA DL. Thus the second requirement.

What's perverse about that logic, though, is the idea that someone would actually SPOOF their CA residency in order to buy a gun here, rather than in...oh, say, any other state in the country (save DC, HI, NY) to which they might have moved.

--Neill

dfletcher
11-30-2007, 8:40 AM
Just an FYI - many other states will not accept your CA DL as proof of anything - even your name - and require additional documentation. I looked into getting a NV DL and their website stated they would not accpt a CA DL only as proof of your identity. NV would however accept most other state issued IDs as proof of ID and when I moved there from NH all I had to do to get a NV DL was hand over my NH DL.

Ironchef
11-30-2007, 9:10 AM
Practically speaking, anyone can put just about any address on their DMV issued ID. You can even put a PO Box. So the DMV ID doesn't real prove where you live.


That and your license is good for several years, in which case you could have moved. I've got all my expired and supposedly "lost" CDLs and several are still valid though showing various addresses I've moved to in the state. But during that time, I spent a year or so in Utah living there.

Utilities are like a "real time" address verification compared to CDLs.

MudCamper
11-30-2007, 9:32 AM
I have my PO box on my license, so I always have trouble. Some FFLs take a PG&E bill. Some don't. But they take DMV reg. But what they don't realize is that I can put any physical address that I want on my DMV reg, cause the DMV is sending it to my PO Box. It's all so stupid.

Bruce
11-30-2007, 10:06 AM
Why isn't CA DL Proof of Residence?

Colin Ferguson. Remember him? The Long Island Commuter Train shooter? He took up "residence" in a motel down around San Diego way. Got himself a California ID card with the motel's address. Went to Turner's and bought himself a 9mm Ruger pistol with "high capacity" magazines, waited the 15 days , returned to New York,and the rest, as they say, is history.

hitman13
11-30-2007, 10:22 AM
Purchasers of handguns are also required to provide proof of California residency, such as a utility bill, residential lease, property deed, or government-issued identification (other than a drivers license or other DMV-issued identification).

so what am i supposed to do in a situationlike mine?
i live with a friend so i do not have an utility bill in my name, nor a res. lease.
i own no property other than a vehicle. what else constitutes "gov. issued"?

Res
11-30-2007, 10:27 AM
Just get a ccw.

Would a Utah ccw work as proof of residence. I don't have one so i don't know what information is printed on them. I would like to aquire one though, and this would be another plus.

AJAX22
11-30-2007, 10:30 AM
I don't know why most FFL's wont accept my 03 FFL (C&R) licence as proof of residency.

Its a fed issued licence with my address on it.

Shotgun Man
11-30-2007, 10:56 AM
so what am i supposed to do in a situationlike mine?
i live with a friend so i do not have an utility bill in my name, nor a res. lease.
i own no property other than a vehicle. what else constitutes "gov. issued"?

I've used my vehicle registration. Will that work for you?

CWM4A1
11-30-2007, 12:01 PM
so what am i supposed to do in a situationlike mine?
i live with a friend so i do not have an utility bill in my name, nor a res. lease.
i own no property other than a vehicle. what else constitutes "gov. issued"?

Let's see. If you own a vehicle and registration shows the address you live at, there is your proof of residency.

If the address on your vehicle registration shows PO BOX, then it's useless. Other route is to get one of those pre-print lease/rental agreement, find the owner of the place your live (assume your friend is the owner, or find the actual owner), go to any notary public and have this lease/rental agreement notarized. You can put down the lease/rent amount for $0.01 for all they care, that would also count as proof of residency as well. More leg work but if that's the only mean of getting proof of residency.

By the way, make sure that address on your DROS, 4473 form and your 2nd proof of residency matches.

chris
11-30-2007, 2:00 PM
I've used my vehicle registration. Will that work for you?

used it several times, a guy at turners in orange told me that. and the best part is you won't forget it when you go and purchase a firearm it's in your car or truck.

JALLEN
11-30-2007, 2:25 PM
I dont think it's that rare.. I notice on "Cops", they always look at people's licenses and ask if they still live at the address printed on the license. I still have my address from two residences ago on my license.. I'd get it fixed, but I dont feel like waiting in those DMV lines are paying the fee to change it.

You can do it online, no waiting.

As far as the requirements, it is more and more common that people can't be trusted to tell the truth, so verification is necessary, corroboration. Experience shows that baseball is no longer the national past time, if it ever was. It is cheating, flim-flaming for whatever advantage someone may see in gaming the system.

School districts require corroboration of a students actual residence, utility bills, etc. Not only does it verify address for competition purposes, sports, etc. but it makes sure that the state pays the right school for a students attendance. You as principal or administrator wouldn't want some other school to get the money for a student that actually lives in your area, would you?

I live in a small enclave which has as one of the trivial perks eligibility for a discount card at a neighboring resort. You have the card and it gets you 15% off restaurant tabs, you can book rooms for guests at a slight savings, etc. We are required to present utility bills and other "verification" that we actually live there. I guess people will lie to get even this benefit.

We have to present ID these days for just about any kind of transaction. Hell, if I was somebody else, I wouldn't claim to be me!

ke6guj
11-30-2007, 2:27 PM
I don't know why most FFL's wont accept my 03 FFL (C&R) licence as proof of residency.

Its a fed issued licence with my address on it.

I've used my C&R as proof. Next time, I think I'm gonna throw down my Amatuer Radio License (Its a federally issued license as well).

N6ATF
11-30-2007, 2:33 PM
I was asked to bring 2 proofs of residence, and looked up what would be accepted.

CA DL and rental agreement with my name and matching address on it were accepted as proof of res. They both matched the addresses on the forms I had to fill out.

My BSIS cards should have worked too according to BoF, but the FFL apparently didn't see those too often or read the rulebook and hence thought they were invalid.

Also, my amateur radio license doesn't match my home address, so I couldn't have used it.

5968
11-30-2007, 5:12 PM
:DThat's some helpful info. Thank you.

No, they say thank you. Big Brother must know all!:D

artherd
11-30-2007, 6:33 PM
I've used my CCW.

Frostbite
03-28-2008, 3:36 PM
CA DL and rental agreement with my name and matching address on it were accepted as proof of res. They both matched the addresses on the forms I had to fill out.

Sorry to resurrect an old post but does the residential lease have to be notarized to be valid? That's about the only thing I could produce to prove my residency.

GenLee
03-28-2008, 3:58 PM
Because I am a card carrying member in good standing in the :TFH: club. Most everything is in my GF name, we've been together for ever so don't freak out on me. Anyway my addiction to gun purchases has led me to have just enough residency proof to get thru the DROS, But now that I am always prepared, the last 2 DROS's Ive done asked for nothing more than my DL, and those two were at different shops, So go figure......It seems it's just more legislation to make it as dificult as possible to buy firearms?

Decoligny
03-28-2008, 4:55 PM
When I lived in an area that didn't have street delivery for our mail I had a PO Box for my address, but DMV required my street address, and put it below the height/weight area on my license. ;)

They don't deliver mail to my private drive either, but there is only a P.O. Box # on my license. Has been for the past 6 years.

ontmark
03-29-2008, 12:05 PM
Question??
I have a paper CA DMV Tempory License and my old one with the experation year punched out. I am in process of renewing my license. Will these two in combination be excepted as a valid CA License for ID??

scoutpup99
03-29-2008, 2:34 PM
no. it has to have a magstip with the new expiration.

Daniel

ontmark
03-29-2008, 6:27 PM
So. Before I can start a DROS I have to wait for my new License??

scoutpup99
03-29-2008, 6:32 PM
That is correct. I have to be able to swipe the license.

Daniel
Pennington Firearms

Joe Register
03-29-2008, 7:35 PM
If you have a lifetime hunting or fishing license you can use that as proof. C&R license works. The problem is that even though the DOJ said these were ok a lot of dealers have it in their head that only a certain few types of proof suffice. Sometimes they are willing to call DOJ and you are OK. Some are just obstinate. Car registration is easiest if it is in your name.

gotgunz
03-30-2008, 12:41 AM
Just get a ccw. It does double duty as a proof of residence and your BFSC or what ever they're calling the training thing these days.

Amen! :cool:

hitman13
03-30-2008, 2:55 AM
kind of off topic, but also on topic/

can you use your passport as your primary means of ID when buying a firearm?

DesertGunner
03-30-2008, 8:26 PM
Simply, the California Legislature and the DOJ have decided to make it harder for you to purchase a handgun. There are some marginal arguments that the address on your DL may not actually be your residence, but its both rare and doesn't really matter.

-Gene

I'd have to disagree with you there. I think it is extremely common to have a different address on your DL than where you actually live, especially among younger, college-age people. My DL shows an address I haven't lived at for 4 years, and I've moved 5 times since then. I update my address with DMV, but my physical license doesn't change until it's time to renew.

packnrat
03-30-2008, 9:56 PM
last time i bought a pistol (xd.40) i had to show a pg&e bill as no other paper would work for the ffl dealer,

last i knew the privet for profit company called pg&e is not a gov department...


:TFH:


.

drclark
03-31-2008, 4:35 PM
I was told that property tax bill does not count as proof of residence, but car registration or utility bill does, last time I purchased a handgun?

That got me thinking a bit about the requirement to show proof of residence, the safe storage laws, and carry laws... and how that might discriminate against certain classes of people.

I think there are some very interesting ramifications if Heller confirms 2A as an individual right.

drc

odesskiy
03-31-2008, 4:42 PM
Here's a kicker - both your D/L and Vehicle Registration can show your old address if you never bother to file Change of Address with the DMV. You could be simply forwarding your mail to another address and they would never get notified. So you could still buy a gun using your old address - big friggin' deal.

odesskiy
03-31-2008, 4:47 PM
I was told that property tax bill does not count as proof of residence, but car registration or utility bill does, last time I purchased a handgun?

That got me thinking a bit about the requirement to show proof of residence, the safe storage laws, and carry laws... and how that might discriminate against certain classes of people.

I think there are some very interesting ramifications if Heller confirms 2A as an individual right.

drc

That's pretty interesting, since technically, a person without a permanent address loses the ability to purchase a firearm. So in theory, if I were to spend one week a month at four different friends' houses, I wouldn't have any permanent address (P.O. Boxes don't count, remember) and wouldn't be able to buy a gun. What if I live in an RV? So couldn't these stupid laws be challenged because of their discriminatory nature?

Bruce
03-31-2008, 5:32 PM
:punk:

JALLEN
03-31-2008, 5:38 PM
To see what qualifies, read the regulation. Nothing else qualifies. D/Ls do not necessarily have the residence address.

Anything allowed by the regs is OK; nothing else is.

hitman13
03-31-2008, 7:04 PM
a us passport is generally the mack daddy of any form of ID in the USA. thats why i asked. and BTW, i called the DOJ today to ask this and a dual residency question but they were closed for ceaser chavez day...

what a joke...

packnrat
03-31-2008, 7:23 PM
lets see ceaser chaves day...opening weekend for hunting turkeys???:eek:



:TFH:


.

CMDB
10-08-2008, 12:53 PM
Sorry for this question. But I am still confused about whether or not a passport can be used as proof of residence. Thanks. :confused:

ke6guj
10-08-2008, 1:01 PM
No, a passport does not prove residency. The gov does not print an address in the passport.

CMDB
10-08-2008, 1:06 PM
Wow! Thanks ke6guj for the quick reply. Anyway that was disappointing. Also I found another thread that talks about this issue on page 1 http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=109231&highlight=passport+residence

Thanks!

fusionstar
10-08-2008, 3:09 PM
A c&r license would suffice for proof of residency right? I've been told yes but some have said no.

ke6guj
10-08-2008, 3:19 PM
A c&r license would suffice for proof of residency right? I've been told yes but some have said no.

Yes, it meets the requirements that CA DOJ have laid out, http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/regs/chapter4.pdf .

Definitions and Requirements.
The following definitions and requirements apply to documents intended to serve as evidence of residency for the acquisition of a handgun pursuant to Penal Code section 12071(b)(8)(C):


d. "Other evidence of residency as permitted by the Department of Justice" means either of the following:
1. A current, government-issued (city, county, special district, state, or federal) license, permit, or registration, other than a California Driver License or California Identification Card, that has a specified expiration date or period of validity. The license, permit, or registration must bear the individual's name and either of the following:
A. The individual's current residential address as declared on the Dealer's Record of Sale (DROS) form.
B. The individual's address as it appears on his or her California Driver License or California Identification Card, or change of address attachment thereto.

I have used it at Turners as POR, and telephone calls to CADOJ have confirmed that a C&R FFL is good for POR.

SJgunguy24
10-08-2008, 3:27 PM
How dare you question the "Common Sense" gun laws of the Great State of California:p

It's impossible to understand the reasoning behind these insane laws. Making people "feel good" isn't a state issue, if it was we would all be issued "brothel cards" good for 1 free ride a week.

jamesob
10-08-2008, 4:12 PM
simple. even if you live in another state you can still get a ca. drivers licence. by law if you come here from another state to work or any other reason and you stay here for a number of days ( drawing a blank on the actual number ) you are required to get a ca. drivers licence.

SteveH
10-08-2008, 4:36 PM
Car registrations/annual.
CDL/ 4-years at least.
Utility bill 30-90 days.

Which is going to be the most current evidence of residency? Which is going to be least current?

CA_Libertarian
10-09-2008, 12:35 PM
Purchasers of handguns are also required to provide proof of California residency, such as a utility bill, residential lease, property deed, or government-issued identification (other than a drivers license or other DMV-issued identification).

I recently moved, so the address on my DL isn't current. I brought in a copy of my lease agreement, which satisfies the above STATE requirement. However, I was told by the FFL that FEDERAL requirements don't recognize a lease agreement as proof of residency.

So, according to what this FLL told me, if your DL address is not current, you are required to provide a utility bill or "something from a government agency" proving residency.

(I'm not certain this is true, as another recent transfer at a different FFL did accept my lease agreement.)

rayra
10-09-2008, 12:38 PM
"Why isn't CA DL Proof of Residence? "


Because the State of CA KNOWS it gives out licenses to illegal aliens, and CA-DOJ accepting a CDL would lead to their indictment when a criminal illegal alien involved in a gun crime gets investigated and is found to have a CDL, thus leading to a lot of discomfort for CA socialist politicians.

bigstick61
10-10-2008, 2:41 AM
A valid U.S. Merchant Mariner's Document works for this. Just used it the other day.

tetris
10-10-2008, 9:07 PM
Case in point, when I was at Discount Gun Mart last weekend, a guy came in and said he had recently moved from Chicago. He had a CA driver's license. However, he lived with roommates he found off of Craig's List (mind you, he looked to be about 35 and to have a respectable occupation). Anyway, he didn't have any utilities or lease in his name.

The DGM clerk said that he could procure a Voter Registration Card as proof of residency. He claimed he had one already for CA.

Smokeybehr
10-11-2008, 9:10 AM
I used my DL and paystub from the County as PoR. Next time, I'll be using my DL, Amateur Radio license (issued by the FCC) and one of the 4 other government-issued picture IDs that I have in my wallet if necessary.