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IPSICK
11-28-2007, 2:45 PM
So I've recently purchased my first OLL and have educated myself on the AW laws associated with it. At first I was scared after seeing 12276(e) but then with further research and reading of Bill's AR/AK FAQ regarding Harrott v. Kings I now have almost complete understanding of the legality of my OLL.

Now I just have to read the Harrott v. Kings decision and my training will be complete. I will then have turned completely to the Black(rifle) side.:43:

I'm certain its been said but thanks (now with better awareness) to Bill Wiese, Gene Hoffman, Ben Cannon, the law offices of Trutanich - Michel LLP, Wes of TenPercent and all the other CalGuns members who helped make all of this a reality.

Anyone else who has concerns about OLL's need only read the resources available on this website. Just takes the ability to read and comprehend.

enchantor
11-28-2007, 2:55 PM
If only every Joe Schmo who purchased an OLL was as well educated as you... I see so many people buying all the AR stuff at the gun show like it's candy, they probably know little to nothing about it and end up building them illegaly, thus giving us a bad name. Congrats on your new rifle and props for doing your homework on it. Have fun & be safe!

IPSICK
11-28-2007, 3:18 PM
Thanks. Not a complete rifle yet but the parts list is being formulated. I do have one question, which I believe is covered on TenPercent's website, that I would like to verify the answer. For those of you using the Prince-50 MagLock, do you always open your rifle via the takedown pin to load the magazine or is there another way?

tgriffin
11-28-2007, 3:27 PM
Thanks. Not a complete rifle yet but the parts list is being formulated. I do have one question, which I believe is covered on TenPercent's website, that I would like to verify the answer. For those of you using the Prince-50 MagLock, do you always open your rifle via the takedown pin to load the magazine or is there another way?

Your training is not yet complete grasshopper. Your google-fu is weak! Let your inner-self lead you to the tranquility of the "bullet-button"

IPSICK
11-28-2007, 3:58 PM
Sorry, I don't really care for the cheesy Kung-fu references. I have researched the bullet button and my question was regarding the Prince-50. You know reading is FUN-damental. I hope I don't sound overly sarcastic, I just wanted verification on the legal usage of the Prince-50.

DedEye
11-28-2007, 4:36 PM
Thanks. Not a complete rifle yet but the parts list is being formulated. I do have one question, which I believe is covered on TenPercent's website, that I would like to verify the answer. For those of you using the Prince-50 MagLock, do you always open your rifle via the takedown pin to load the magazine or is there another way?

It is as you thought; you have to top load via pulling the takedown pin.

Kinda sucks, and unless you go to free states a lot I'd recommend getting a bullet button.

IPSICK
11-28-2007, 5:07 PM
Thanks DedEye. I just like the idea of having full functionality as an option in case I do travel to a free state. I could try getting into 3-gun and traveling out of state. There's also the outside chance of either a federal reversal on the CA ban or a federal ban that supersedes the state ban. The latter would suck though even if it meant full functionality for those with OLL's, provided it's not a gun grab ban which would be almost impossible to enforce.

Thanks again.

M. Sage
11-28-2007, 7:11 PM
Thanks DedEye. I just like the idea of having full functionality as an option in case I do travel to a free state.

Perfect argument for a featureless build. Full functionality here or away. :D

oaklander
11-28-2007, 8:14 PM
I had my AR configured with something like a Prince 50 mag lock (well, really it was just a castle-nut in place of the mag button), and I've had it configured with a Bullet Button. I'd have to say that the BB makes it much easier to reload, and I don't have to worry about wearing out the take-down pins.

That being said, I'm *really* liking my featureless AK builds. The mags work like they were intended, and I don't really miss the pistol grip (the MMG works quite well).

Kudos to you for doing all the research on this topic. It's really cool that you did the research, and at the same time it's really sad that we live in a state where you have to know so much about the law simply to flex a constitutional right.

Re: the Google-fu comment from 2E8B - that's just one of the things about this board. We like our "fu" - google-fu, dremel-fu, bullet-button-fu, etc..

:D

Thanks DedEye. I just like the idea of having full functionality as an option in case I do travel to a free state. I could try getting into 3-gun and traveling out of state. There's also the outside chance of either a federal reversal on the CA ban or a federal ban that supersedes the state ban. The latter would suck though even if it meant full functionality for those with OLL's, provided it's not a gun grab ban which would be almost impossible to enforce.

Thanks again.

IPSICK
11-28-2007, 11:52 PM
Thanks again for the advice on the build. I may yet go featureless as I am considering a RRA Predator Pursuit Upper w/ an A2 Buttstock, so all I'd really need is a MMG. I'll probably still get the Prince-50 also and have the best of both worlds as well as possibly ordering extra takedown pins.

I didn't mind the hokey *-fu comment as much as I do the ignorance that I could do so much research on CalGuns and have someone believe I don't know what a Bullet Button is.:rolleyes:

Oh well. No malice intended in my post of course my topic is a little more in response to other members who have their qualms owning/building an OLL. The info is their and I found it relatively easy to get, you just have to READ. I mean our case has already been judged at the CA Supreme Court level by Harrott v. Kings what else can realistically be done to prohibit us from our legal rifles.

tenpercentfirearms
11-29-2007, 6:41 AM
Here is my recommendation.

Do not build a heavy varmint rifle (and the Predator Pursuit is light in comparison to others) with a MMG. That pistol grip is golden and helps out so much. Definitely do a Bullet Button for that build. If the laws ever change, I just removed my Bullet Button from my POF build the other day with a simple punch and hammer. It was easy.

When you buy all of these parts, you will still have the standard mag release spring and mag button. If the laws ever change, it won't take you but 5 minutes (if you are slow) to get back to normal configuration.

If you want to build a MMG build, I recommend making it a light one. A light weight 16" upper works much better with the MMG. You can actually hold it up with one hand and move it about.

I just sold my two Prince50 kits for $10 cash each to a guy the other day. My new plan for my "out of state" rifle is to build a dedicated .22 LR upper/lower combo (hopefully Centermass Tactical Solutions will come through on that just before Spike's Tactical does). The thing about the Prince50 is you have to have an Allen wrench handy while out of state. I would rather take a Bullet Button built .223 or 6.8 and my .22 out of state and simply pop the pivot and take down pins and put my .223 upper on my .22 lower. Once I am out of state this is perfectly legal and I think it will take less time and less hassle than the Prince50.

That is my new plan.

aileron
11-29-2007, 6:52 AM
Your training is not yet complete grasshopper. Your google-fu is weak! Let your inner-self lead you to the tranquility of the "bullet-button"

I laughed at this soo much I thought of quoting it in my sig, and then thought, its just kind of weird to be quoting the guy who is quoting me. :p

But that was just too darn funny.

FortCourageArmory
11-29-2007, 7:40 AM
That is my new plan.

I just built my pet AR. Stag 3H upper riding on a Stag lower with an M4 6-position stock. Leupold Mark 2 T2 3-9x scope. Yankee Hills tactical rails on the forend. Forward pistol grip and auxiliary short range sights mounted out there too. Chip McCormick 3-pound match trigger installed and topped off with a Levang Compensator. And I used the Prince 50 to lock the mag. I also put a G-27 ergonomic grip on in place of the standard A2 pistol grip. This grip has a storage compartment in the handle with a positive trapdoor arrangement. That's where I put my trusty allen wrench (in a plastic bag so it minimizes rattle). If the laws ever change to the point where I don't need to worry about a mag lock, that same allen wrench will make short work of removing the allen screw completely. Presto, regular mag catch again.

IPSICK
11-29-2007, 8:24 AM
Thanks Wes. Awesome advice. I'm about 99.9% convinced to get the bullet button. I am slow.

tgriffin
11-29-2007, 8:33 AM
I laughed at this soo much I thought of quoting it in my sig, and then thought, its just kind of weird to be quoting the guy who is quoting me. :p

But that was just too darn funny.

HAhahaha thanks for the kudos. Wish the OP had a sense of humor! He jumped all over me for my well-intended "cheesy kung-fu references" :rolleyes:

IPSICK
11-29-2007, 4:28 PM
HAhahaha thanks for the kudos. Wish the OP had a sense of humor! He jumped all over me for my well-intended "cheesy kung-fu references" :rolleyes:

Not to beat a dead horse because I really wish this part of this thread gets dropped, but if you READ the complete thread, I took more offense from your assumption of my ignorance of the Bullet Button.:rolleyes:

Anyways, I've just completed reading the Harrott v. Kings ruling and I must comment that it is very dangerous to the public that this ruling is not mentioned anywhere on the DOJ BOF website. This omission could/has lead to false arrests and wrongful confiscation/destruction of property.

My next question after this round of reading however is, now that the AG no longer has the authority to identify AW's, who does? And has this led to even more vagueness and ambiguity to AW regulation?

gose
11-29-2007, 5:51 PM
Thanks DedEye. I just like the idea of having full functionality as an option in case I do travel to a free state. I could try getting into 3-gun and traveling out of state. There's also the outside chance of either a federal reversal on the CA ban or a federal ban that supersedes the state ban. The latter would suck though even if it meant full functionality for those with OLL's, provided it's not a gun grab ban which would be almost impossible to enforce.
Thanks again.

If you do get into 3gun and plan on shooting any matches in CA, the monsterman is pretty much the only way to go. Since that rifle is unlikely to have any other evil features anyway, replacing the grip when getting out of state is quick and easy.

IPSICK
11-29-2007, 7:55 PM
I was thinking of doing 3gun out of state, of course now you've given me another argument to get both the Prince-50 and the MMG. Damn you!!! J/k. I can switch grips in state for the practice range. I just have to make the combination legal (i.e. MMG+Prince unlocked or Pistol Grip+Prince Locked). Of course to make this work no other evil features must be present, which I probably intend to do anyways.

Of course Wes' idea is very intriguing but then I will have to part with more $$$ to buy the .22lr OLL setup.

Why must there be so many choices for our OLL's?:D

hoffmang
11-29-2007, 8:24 PM
My next question after this round of reading however is, now that the AG no longer has the authority to identify AW's, who does? And has this led to even more vagueness and ambiguity to AW regulation?

No one but the legislature by passing new laws may identify new rifles as Assault Weapons. Read AB-2728 (http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/05-06/bill/asm/ab_2701-2750/ab_2728_bill_20060929_chaptered.html).

-Gene

IPSICK
11-29-2007, 9:04 PM
Well thanks Gene for not telling me "search is my friend" though I feel a little bad about not knowing the number of the bill stripping the AG of his ability to list.

tenpercentfirearms
11-29-2007, 9:24 PM
Anyways, I've just completed reading the Harrott v. Kings ruling and I must comment that it is very dangerous to the public that this ruling is not mentioned anywhere on the DOJ BOF website. This omission could/has lead to false arrests and wrongful confiscation/destruction of property.

I am sorry, but that comment made me laugh. Please take this with a light heart, but we should call you Captain Obvious! :p

The CA DOJ doesn't play fair as you now know.

However...

ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US!

IPSICK
11-30-2007, 12:02 AM
I am sorry, but that comment made me laugh. Please take this with a light heart, but we should call you Captain Obvious! :p

The CA DOJ doesn't play fair as you now know.

However...

ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US!

Contrary to singular belief I have a great sense of humor. Captain Obvious, that's a good one. But seriously playing fair or not false arrests are no laughing matter and I'd hate to be a victim of it.