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M1Shooter
11-23-2007, 8:59 AM
The Marlin Guide Gun in .45-70 can definitely be called a kick-***** lever gun capable of taking down the biggest, meanest creatures on the planet with the right loads http://www.garrettcartridges.com/ A short barreled and very useful rifle to use in close quarters. Can be loaded just as powerful as some of the .458 Winchesters. I've used this weapon for taking bear and wild boar that have all succumbed to instant one shot kills. An incredible weapon with a very specific purpose.

Fjold
11-23-2007, 9:27 AM
Can be loaded just as powerful as some of the .458 Winchesters.

Looking at Garrets published ballistics they only make about 70% of the energy of the standard 458 win Mag loads. The highest energy Garret load makes 3200 ft-Lbs while the weakest 458 Win Mag load makes over 4700 ft-Lbs

Bullet weight.............458 Win........................45.70 (Garret)
..............................Velocity/energy..............Velocity/energy

350..........................2470 fps/4740 fpe.........2000 fps/3100 fpe
400..........................2380 fps/5030 fpe
420............................................... ............1850 fps/3200 fpe
500..........................2160 fps/4972 fpe.........1530 fps/2600 fpe
510..........................2090 fps/4712 fpe
540............................................... ............1550 fps/2880 fpe

M1Shooter
11-23-2007, 10:04 AM
10-4 on energy comparison but, check out the bullet penetration (.45-70 vs .458 Win) http://www.garrettcartridges.com/penetration.asp

metalhead357
11-23-2007, 2:28 PM
10-4 on energy comparison but, check out the bullet penetration (.45-70 vs .458 Win) http://www.garrettcartridges.com/penetration.asp


THAT was interesting. I've wanted a 45-70 for long time and this might just of finnally sold me on it in comparison to the other Biggies..


Very interestingly, if one takes the Hornady 500-grain .458 diameter solid bullet and compares the penetration that results from impact speeds varying from about 1500-fps to 2500-fps, one finds that the higher impact speeds produce the least penetration. When driven to about 1500-fps (as the 45-70 will do) one finds that such solids produce nearly 6-feet of penetration in wet newspapers. When the same bullet is driven to about 2100-fps (as is characteristic of the 458 Winchester Magnum) one finds that the penetration is reduced to about 4 to 4 and 1/2 feet. When one tests the same bullet at 2300-2400 fps (as is characteristic of the 458 Lott) one finds that the penetration comes up nearly 20% short of that produced by the 458 Winchester. And when one tests the same bullet at the blistering speeds characteristic of the mighty 460 Weatherby Magnum, one finds that the penetration achieved is the most shallow produced by the various 458s.

Fjold
11-23-2007, 4:02 PM
THAT was interesting. I've wanted a 45-70 for long time and this might just of finnally sold me on it in comparison to the other Biggies..

One thing to remember is that this data is being presented by someone who sells the ammunition.

By his logic, if I shoot an animal with a 458 Win mag at 200 yards I will have penetration better than if I hit it at 10 yards.

If bullets penetrate better at 1500 fps over 2000 fps what happens when the bullet slows down to 1500 fps inside the animal? Does it start penetrating better?

metalhead357
11-23-2007, 4:37 PM
One thing to remember is that this data is being presented by someone who sells the ammunition.

Oh no doubts

By his logic, if I shoot an animal with a 458 Win mag at 200 yards I will have penetration better than if I hit it at 10 yards.

If bullets penetrate better at 1500 fps over 2000 fps what happens when the bullet slows down to 1500 fps inside the animal? Does it start penetrating better?

it seems to me at least its arguing that speed IS a relative factor but speed increases over the 45-70's normal range do not produce better performance for penetration-- quite the opposite; So tit for tat-- if the velocity is between those "ideal" ranges penetration will be superb...outside of those ranges it will be less than ideal.

But hey, then again...I'm just arguing to GET one... LOL! as if I need ANYTHING that can penetrate 6 feet!!!!!

NeoWeird
11-23-2007, 5:10 PM
Wait....doesn't that test just mean that more energy (like that produced by the 460 WM) is being delivered faster (nearly half the distance of the .45-70); so in essence they are far superior as hunting rounds?

rkt88edmo
11-23-2007, 8:58 PM
My in progress project is to cut down a Marlin .45-70 XLR to around 19.5 inches (no guide gun because I want the pistol grip laminate stock) and put on a full length mag tube, leupold scout scope, ghostring backup sights, custom large loop lever, and ching sling.

So far it is just wearing Ashley scout mount and peep sight. :) and I have an extra lever I got off ebay that I can monkey with to make my own one of a kind loop. Hopefully make some progress of xmas break.

tankerman
11-23-2007, 9:41 PM
Penetration at longer ranges will be dependent on bullet construction, HP vs. solids/hardcast

Hardcast will penetrate beeply a very slow velocities. Buffalo hunters and people like Elmer Keith knew that

Fjold
11-24-2007, 9:05 AM
Penetration at longer ranges will be dependent on bullet construction, HP vs. solids/hardcast

Hardcast will penetrate beeply a very slow velocities. Buffalo hunters and people like Elmer Keith knew that


Penetration at any range is dependent upon bullet construction.

M1Shooter
11-24-2007, 9:38 AM
Mine too sports the Leupold 2.5 X 28mm Scout scope, Ashley back-up ghost ring sight, and a large loop lever. Am interested though in the full-length magazine tube for my guide gun. Be nice to have more than 4 rounds in the magazine Where can I get one? Thx.:cool2:

CRTguns
11-24-2007, 9:25 PM
That garrett stuff is weak...er... safe I suppose. My 45-70 Ruger #1 shoots a 500 gr jacketed bullet at 1890fps (compressed load of Varget) and a 350 gr at 2100. I actually broke a benchrest while shooting the gun off it. No high pressure signs either- just disorientation in my head and numbness in my shooting arm for a few moments following the shot.

rkt88edmo
11-25-2007, 8:59 AM
Mine too sports the Leupold 2.5 X 28mm Scout scope, Ashley back-up ghost ring sight, and a large loop lever. Am interested though in the full-length magazine tube for my guide gun. Be nice to have more than 4 rounds in the magazine Where can I get one? Thx.:cool2:

Do you have the loop from DRC or WWG?

Which rifle do you have? To extend you mag tube You basically have to order the tube for the cowboy model and cut it to size for your own gun. Then you have to cut a new dovetail in your barrel to move the attachment point, or you have to create a custom band to replce the dovetail post system they use. Fill in the old dovetail with a blank, and finally, if your gun is stainless steel you will have to get the tube plated, because Marlin doesn't have a long length tube plated from the factory. A long stock tube is used because of the "bump" in the tubing that marlin puts in which aids in loading.

I've been studying up on the mods at leverguns.com and marlinowners.com. There is also a marlin lever tuning guide and I will probably try to complete all of those steps as well.

M1Shooter
11-25-2007, 11:00 AM
It is the DRC Big Loop; one of the first mods I did to my 1895GS. Regarding the extended mag tube--I was hoping to get an aftermarket product but, looks like I'll have to take the route you recommended regarding the Cowboy model mag tube. Thx.

rkt88edmo
11-26-2007, 11:53 AM
If my homebrew lever ends up being too fugly I will be saving up for the DRC loop, I like it. Obtained the stainless stock that I'll be trying to morph into a loop this weekend, same thickness as stock, but runs a little wider. We'll see if I can bend it into any meaningful shpae, but probably not until xmas vacation.

HUTCH 7.62
11-26-2007, 12:05 PM
I use my marlin guide gun 45-70 Govt. as my apartment defence gun.

speak softly and carry a big stick -Teddy Roosevelt

M1Shooter
11-26-2007, 1:14 PM
I use my marlin guide gun 45-70 Govt. as my apartment defence gun.

speak softly and carry a big stick -Teddy Roosevelt

The Marlin Guide Gun is a great lever action in an awesome cartridge but I don't think it is prudent to use it in the close confines of an apartment complex. Perhaps you should consider a shotgun or a pistol shooting frangible bullets for your "apartment defence gun." Just a thought.

HUTCH 7.62
11-27-2007, 9:28 PM
The Marlin Guide Gun is a great lever action in an awesome cartridge but I don't think it is prudent to use it in the close confines of an apartment complex. Perhaps you should consider a shotgun or a pistol shooting frangible bullets for your "apartment defence gun." Just a thought.

Yeah, but frangible bullets won't stop a drugged up tongan, just a thought.