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eguns-com
11-22-2007, 1:12 PM
For an OLL AR type rifle, the deciding factor is the lower receiver, right? Someone could build an OLL rifle using an off list receiver and it wouldn't matter if the upper, for example, was from a manufacturer on the list? Some uppers are marked.

I want to make sure I tailor my CA ads correctly :confused:

Thanks
Chad
;)

jandmtv
11-22-2007, 1:14 PM
yes only the lower matters, the upper can be a colt, bushy or any other brand for that matter.

tenpercentfirearms
11-22-2007, 1:22 PM
The only time you might need to be concerned is if the upper combined with the lower matches a listed rifle. For example, there are RRA's listed as "Standard A-4 Flatop". If you have a RRA lower and a 20" A4 Flattop, they might be able to argue it is indeed a listed rifle despite the lower saying "LAR-15".

So don't sell complete rifles from RRA and you should be fine with any type of upper. You can even sell RRA LAR-15 lowers and RRA uppers, just don't assemble them yourself and at least warn the customer if they order both together.

eguns-com
11-22-2007, 8:48 PM
great, thanks for the info

thmpr
11-22-2007, 9:24 PM
Why would the upper gate someone from building their OLL legally since it is not considered a firearm. I could have a Fulton lower and an upper reciever engraved SR15 and it would not make any difference. Please correct me if I am wrong.

tenpercentfirearms
11-22-2007, 9:27 PM
Why would the upper gate someone from building their OLL legally since it is not considered a firearm. I could have a Fulton lower and an upper reciever engraved SR15 and it would not make any difference. Please correct me if I am wrong.

The problem isn't that we have to convince you that you are wrong; the problem is you might have to convince your DA that they are wrong. You might win a test case, you might not. The Kasler List doesn't say anything about the designations only being the lower.

The chances of this being an issue are remote, but I think the consumer needs to be aware of the possibility.

bwiese
11-22-2007, 10:37 PM
Wes is correct.

Even though RRA LAR15 lowers are off-list, the RRA "Standard A2 flattop" (or whatever - there's several) is a Kasler-listed series member.

Putting that RRA upper on a LAR15 lower might or might not be regarded as producing one of the banned named guns. (RRA may say that such a homebrew combination of upper + lower is not a factory gun and thus is not the same model with factory warranty, etc. - and may be able to trace this from the lower's serial number, since they know for excise tax reasons which lowers were sold stripped and which left as complete rifles.) A DA might say - and court might concur - that identical parts from the vendor assembled identically to a banned gun produces a banned gun. The fight then would fall to arguing if the RRA "Standard A2 rifle" or "Standard A4 carbine" or whatever other monikers they use are truly descriptive or define a 'series' if variations in these occurred over time.

Most DAs/investigators would not be smart enough or have enough budget/time to determine if an upper mounted on an RRA LAR15 was, in fact, an RRA upper and they'd just look at the model # on the receiver and find out that RRA LAR15s are off-list.

But this possibility - albeit way 'out in the park' - does exist and I'd thus not recommend putting certain specific RRA uppers on an RRA LAR15 lower. A 'customized' RRA upper with features not on any of the rifles listed in the Kasler list would probably fly.

Sending a Stag upper receiver to be bbl'd by RRA, along with a bolt carrier from, say, Bushmaster, would solve such problems if you wanted an RRA bbl'd upper on an RRA LAR15 lower. That is a custom upper whose configuration is not described by any of the production models listed as banned in the Kasler list (11 CCR 5499).

tenpercentfirearms
11-23-2007, 5:38 AM
Not to mention unless it has RRA stamped on the upper somewhere, how are they even going to know?

Damn RRA For laser etching RRA on their uppers. :eek:

Still if you had a MMG or better yet a U15, that is hardly a RRA rifle. Again, you should be fine with such a set up.

bwiese
11-23-2007, 6:28 AM
Still if you had a MMG or better yet a U15, that is hardly a RRA rifle. Again, you should be fine with such a set up.

Probably so.