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67siia
11-22-2007, 1:29 PM
Is there such a thing as a California Legal Dragunov (or variance of)? Many years ago, I had the opportunity of shooting a Dragunov. Since I've been wanting to own such a specimen. Is there a legal Dragunov (or variance of)? version?

Sal
11-22-2007, 1:36 PM
Cheapest way is to buy a romanian PSL/FPK/Dragunov.

Its the closest you can get cheaply, Its simply a longer version of the AK that shoots 7.62x54r, has the stamped receiver like an AK, and uses the same gas system.

The SVD dragunov is milled receiver with a different gas system, as well as everything else, it only resembles the AK to some degree.

You can own either gun here in CA as neither are on the list. You either have to remove any flash hiders, and then fill in the thumbhole stock, or you can keep everything if you make it a fixed magazine, or use a bullet button.

I have a PSL myself, and prefer the bullet button route since you cant get any magazines over 10 rounds anyway.

Josh3239
11-22-2007, 1:43 PM
I also have a PSL so I'll put in my .02 cents.

The PSL is definetly the cheapest SVD "variant". It is actually more like an RPK then a AK47.

As Sal went with a bullet button, I went with a featureless. In other words, I filled in the thumbhole stock. Mostly because I installed a bullet button on my AK47 before and it was a pain (granted I made a mistake and the whole assembly came apart), I thought it would me much easier to switch stocks when I leave/enter California. You don't get as much control as a thumbhole stock but if your not at war it is very comfortable for target shooting.

Unfortunetly I haven't had a chance to shoot it. I have read to stick with as close to 148gr as possible. Some PSLs need a bit of work to shoot good and others don't, kind of a hit or miss. If it requires work and your willing to do it, it is supposed to be a great DMR.

5150-417
11-22-2007, 1:49 PM
There not on the ban list so they ar legal only if they don't have an aw feautures. Romanians are the cheapest one's but those suck.

Josh3239
11-22-2007, 1:54 PM
Not necessarily. I believe Tigrs are pretty close in price to the PSL.

PSLs are not meant to sniper rifles, they are meant to be designated marksman rifles. What do you expect from a rifle that is built like an RPK? They won't get sub MOA but I have heard of them getting 1 MOA. That doesn't suck for a DMR.

Sal
11-22-2007, 1:55 PM
I built my own PSL, and the parts kit came with the trigger guard already dissassembled so i just went the bullet button route. There is also some confusion about the muzzle device on them so i feel safer with a fixed mag rifle.

They are awesome rifles, i've never shot it at paper, but it hits honeydew melons at 200 yards every shot.

The tigr rifles are a SVD, just renamed. They are made at the same plant, only they come with a shorter barrel, and a different thumbhole style stock, as well as a 5 round "hunting" magazine. They also lack a few of the military features such as the adjustable gas system and flash hider, bayonet lug etc. Its basically a hunting version of the rifle.

The tigr's are still pretty pricey. There was a version called the California dragunov actually imported by a place in corona that had the military features, only with the shorter barrel.

69Mach1
11-22-2007, 1:59 PM
Californian compliant Dragunov's, variants, and PSL's aren't sold that way. You have to do the work to make them compliant with our State's bogus laws. All of the ones I know of are not listed cat.1 or 2 named assault weapons. Getting them to your OLL friendly FFL is easy, so is making them compliant. Fellow calgunners have done all of the work for you.

As far as which one to get, here's the rundown. Remember the thumbhole stock is a prohibited feature on a detachable magazine. Either fill it in or fix the mag. PSL's which use an AK receiver and not a true Dragunov receiver are the cheapest way to go. They come in both 7.62x54R and .308 calibers. They share the same SVD scope mounts as the real Dragunovs also. Price is about $700.

The next one on the list is a real imported Russian Dragunov Tiger (short barrel SVD). It's a 922r compliant rifle with no flash hider or threaded muzzle. These are all 7.62x54R. The stock and forearm are interchangable with the longer barreled, military looking, preban Dragunovs. There were also a few that were imported with the military furniture and the flash suppressor atached. Price range is between $2100 to $3500 depending on the version imported.

There's also a Chinese version called the NDM-86. It's also a true Dragunov. It comes in both 7.62x54R and .308. Price range is $2800 to $4000 depending on the caliber.

Finally there's the Russian imported SVD Dragunovs. Last listed price I saw was $10,000.:eek:

67siia
11-22-2007, 2:02 PM
This is great info. Fixed mag seems the easier and less complicated way (I have fixed mags on my ARs and FN FAL). Now the punch line... where do I get a PSL/FPK/Dragunov Romak, I have seen them for $799 but can not seem to find one in Cali.

Josh3239
11-22-2007, 2:04 PM
double post - refer to my other post below

Josh3239
11-22-2007, 2:06 PM
There is also some confusion about the muzzle device on them so i feel safer with a fixed mag rifle.

ATF calls it a brake, that is enough for me.

This is great info. Fixed mag seems the easier and less complicated way (I have fixed mags on my ARs and FN FAL). Now the punch line... where do I get a PSL/FPK/Dragunov Romak, I have seen them for $799 but can not seem to find one in Cali.

You can't get them in CA. I thought CWS had some at the Ventura show. You can buy one on GunBroker and have them ship it here with the thumbhole stock removed - no evil features. If the out-of-state person won't take the "risk" have them ship it to LAN World or CWS, they will remove the evil features or add a magazine lock and then send it to your FFL so you can DROS it.

69Mach1
11-22-2007, 2:06 PM
Romanian PSL/FPK Dragunov/SSG-97's and a Russian Tiger.
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j258/FIVESIXTN/hkSONY1194.jpg
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j258/FIVESIXTN/hkSONY1198.jpg

Chinese NDM-86
http://dragunov.us/pics/ndm.jpg

Russian SVD Dragunov
http://unconventional-airsoft.com/gfx/dragunovs/originals/soldier.jpeg

69Mach1
11-22-2007, 2:14 PM
There is one more version that no one can get their hands on.
The Iraqi Al Kadesih

Top to Bottom:
Russian SVD, Iraqi Al Kadesih and Romanian PSL.
http://www.gunsandammomag.com/ammunition/GAmod_080105C.jpg

I wish they weren't distroying the Dragunovs from Iraq. They could simply be demilled and imported. Then some company could manufacture US made barrels and receivers for them, and the Dragunov would be back.

jumbopanda
11-22-2007, 2:26 PM
I wish they weren't distroying the Dragunovs from Iraq. They could simply be demilled and imported. Then some company could manufacture US made barrels and receivers for them, and the Dragunov would be back.

Yea but then you'd get news reports of how terrorist weapons from Iraq are now flooding our streets, or some other horse**** like that.

67siia
11-22-2007, 2:54 PM
Sorry Josh missed that part. I emailed LAN World

Q
11-22-2007, 2:58 PM
Nice find on the ssg. bayo lug is kinda rare. I saw a al kadesih for sale on a auction, I think it was going for around 3800-4500. It was featured in a magazine also.

Sal
11-22-2007, 3:32 PM
that one with the lug and no scope is mine...

Sadly a scope wont fit it right now due to an out of spec siderail.

You wouldnt belive what i paid for that:p

Josh3239
11-22-2007, 7:13 PM
Sorry Josh missed that part. I emailed LAN World

Whadya miss?

Nice! Both Chris at LAN and Hector at CWS are great guys. Chris was very helpful in getting me my MSAR STG into this state legally. I have to keep it disassembled until I can make a magazine lock. He'll take care of you.

Matt640h
01-13-2008, 2:33 PM
Is there such a thing as a California Legal Dragunov (or variance of)? Many years ago, I had the opportunity of shooting a Dragunov. Since I've been wanting to own such a specimen. Is there a legal Dragunov (or variance of)? version?


Did you ever get one? If so, did you go featureless or lock the mag? I've been thinking about a PSL for myself.

67siia
01-17-2008, 8:58 PM
I am almost there... resolving the last few details on how to make it Cali legal/compliant... I will update shortly :D

mblat
01-17-2008, 9:08 PM
ATF calls it a brake, that is enough for me.




Now. I've read it many times in many places. But NOBODY was able to provide me with the copy of the ruling , letter or anything. I am not saying it doesn't exist, but if you can provide one I would be EXTREMELY thankful.

As continent bullet button is for AR I find them pain in arse on AKs. I would love to take it out and go featureless.

vinny_land
01-17-2008, 9:25 PM
I also have a PSL so I'll put in my .02 cents.

The PSL is definetly the cheapest SVD "variant". It is actually more like an RPK then a AK47.

As Sal went with a bullet button, I went with a featureless. In other words, I filled in the thumbhole stock. Mostly because I installed a bullet button on my AK47 before and it was a pain (granted I made a mistake and the whole assembly came apart), I thought it would me much easier to switch stocks when I leave/enter California. You don't get as much control as a thumbhole stock but if your not at war it is very comfortable for target shooting.

Unfortunetly I haven't had a chance to shoot it. I have read to stick with as close to 148gr as possible. Some PSLs need a bit of work to shoot good and others don't, kind of a hit or miss. If it requires work and your willing to do it, it is supposed to be a great DMR.

Is there instructions somewhere to fill the thumbhole stock and do you know any vendors that sell these firearms?

Josh3239
01-18-2008, 3:22 PM
I have since sold mine.

69Mach1 made filled in thumbhole stocks and made a thread on how he did it. I got my PSL from GunBroker, I just explained the laws to the seller and he was cool with it. I know CWS was selling some at the gun show in Ventura, you could shoot them an email.

virulosity
01-18-2008, 10:01 PM
here is a pic of a before and after from modding my TIGR with SVD parts. sorry in advance for the crappy pics!

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s164/VIRULOSITY/TIGR2.jpg
http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s164/VIRULOSITY/SVD.jpg

and here is a pic of a CA legal PSL:
http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s164/VIRULOSITY/PSL2.jpg

either is fairly easy to get here in CA. Just have the seller remove the buttstock prior to shipping as these rifles have no other AW features. If you want to see lots of sexy pics and good info check out dragunov.net

I chose to use a maglock on my rifles for a couple of reasons. First you get the natural feel of the thumbhole stock. Second, there are no high caps for these rifles. Third, it is practically easier to load the TIGR through the ejection port than to drop the mag, and my PSL has a bullet button so mag changes are fairly easy.

If you do however decide to fill the thumbhole do get in touch with 69 Mach1. He is an all around great guy and has done this many times.

vinny_land
01-18-2008, 10:33 PM
thanks for the dragunov.net link

Q
01-18-2008, 10:34 PM
http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s164/VIRULOSITY/SVD.jpg
.

That's beautiful, nice TIGR!:eek:

virulosity
01-18-2008, 11:01 PM
I will try and take a decent pic soon. That one doesn't really do it justice.

Jarhead
01-19-2008, 8:19 AM
How do I get started, where do I find the Milled SVD Receiver? I too would go with the Bullet Button.

virulosity
01-19-2008, 9:40 AM
You cant buy SVD receivers. You have to buy a complete rifle. Check gunbroker.com. As for the bullet button, there are many people on here that sell them. I made my own and it isn't very difficult. All you need is a dremel and less than $1 of parts from hardware store.

Draven
01-19-2008, 9:46 AM
Just a note-

The SVD mechanism was originally designed to be top-loaded using stripper clips- so it is possible to top-load it.

Jarhead
01-19-2008, 3:01 PM
will they ship the SVD into CA? who would you recommend to handle the transfer and I guess install the Bullet Button. I'm assuming you can't take delivery of an SVD without the BB?

67siia
01-19-2008, 3:44 PM
virulosity, would you please elaborate on the "maglock", which type did you use and where can I get one? My PSL is in transit and thus far I plan on using an AK maglock but, open to any other suggestion for the magazine lock.

virulosity
01-19-2008, 5:50 PM
If you don't mind ruining an AK mag release, you just grind it down to where it can't function by hand anymore. Or buy the appropriate size of these and dremel it to fit:
http://images.builderssquare.com/Detail/0/4/365/4365589_Detail.jpg

Matt640h
01-21-2008, 9:59 AM
So if one wanted to go the gunbroker route, having the seller remove the stock and ship it to my FLL, how hard is it to remove the stock? Is it riveted?

69Mach1
01-21-2008, 10:07 AM
For the PSL, you just remove two screws and it comes off.

67siia
02-16-2008, 5:08 PM
Update:jump:

Took the PSL (fixed mag), to the range for the first time... I must say it is PITA :mad: to load the ammo... I had to load 1 round & fire at the time :sleeping:... after 7 rounds I decided to put it away and play with the IMBEL :43:. I got home and decided to switch the Thumbhole stock with the Filled in Stock (again great thanks to 69Mach1), now I can go with removable magazine to the next range visit.

TheMan
02-16-2008, 8:03 PM
Update:jump:

Took the PSL (fixed mag), to the range for the first time... I must say it is PITA :mad: to load the ammo... I had to load 1 round & fire at the time :sleeping:... after 7 rounds I decided to put it away and play with the IMBEL :43:. I got home and decided to switch the Thumbhole stock with the Filled in Stock (again great thanks to 69Mach1), now I can go with removable magazine to the next range visit.

The AK maglocks that can be worked with a bullet tip will fit on a PSL as well. That is how I fixed my magazine. It is still a little bit awkward to remove the mag, but not nearly as bad to reload as if it were a top loader.

67siia
02-17-2008, 11:04 AM
The method used to prevent the magazine from coming out on my PSL was a drilled hole and an allen crew inserted. This allen screw prevent the magazine from coming out when the magazine release level is pushed. It works great and very in expensive.

Looking for some reassurance here. Now that I replaced the thumbhole stock, with a filled in stock, I am good removing the magazine, right?

Josh3239
02-17-2008, 11:58 AM
Yes, click the link in my sig.

Matt640h
02-18-2008, 10:55 AM
The method used to prevent the magazine from coming out on my PSL was a drilled hole and an allen crew inserted. This allen screw prevent the magazine from coming out when the magazine release level is pushed. It works great and very in expensive.

Looking for some reassurance here. Now that I replaced the thumbhole stock, with a filled in stock, I am good removing the magazine, right?

:useless:

Lets see that bad boy!