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532Fastback
11-21-2007, 10:55 PM
I did do a search but i got a couple of questions that are nagging at me and i can't seem to find the answers. Sorry i am new.

I noticed on this site theres people selling their OLL AR15s, how is that possible? i thought Assault weapons were illegal to sell to anyone and when you die the gun can't be grandfathered? Am i just thinking of M16s?

Also i am interested in building my own OLL AR15. How do i go about doing it? How many parts does an AR15 have? and once its done, do i need to register it?


Sorry if the search would have answered my questions, everything i typed in wouldn't bring up any answers so i thought i'd ask.

!@#$
11-21-2007, 11:01 PM
http://calguns.net/a_california_arak.htm

Josh3239
11-21-2007, 11:06 PM
You have a lot of reading to do. Search button is your friend.

bigkahuna04
11-21-2007, 11:06 PM
Welcome...read and catch the BRD ( Black Rifle Disease )...it's contagious.

savasyn
11-21-2007, 11:10 PM
Read carefully through this:
http://calguns.net/a_california_arak.htm

Here's the quick response though:
CA has an AW ban in place. People who had them before the ban had the opportunity to register them once the ban was put in place. That time has long since passed and there are no more registrations possible. Thus if you didn't register or have created a gun that that fit the definitions laid out in the laws, it is illegal. Registered ones can be sold out of state, but not in CA.

There are three ways an AW is defined as you'll have read in the link above. All the rifles you see here that are for sale fall OUTSIDE of the specification laid out by the ban. First and foremost, they are not on any of the lists of banned weapons. Secondly they either do not have any of the features listed in the ban(hereafter know as "Evil Features") or they do not accept a readily detachable magazine and are therefore allowed evil features.

Illegal activity on this forum is not permitted and threads about such activity are closed and/or removed. Note that there are a great many threads about off list rifles, all of which are legal under the letter of the law.

Yes, you can buy a complete off list rifle or you can build your own. There are tons of threads about building your own both here and at AR15.com.
No you don't need to, nor can you register a rifle as an AW anymore. Off list rifles are treated just like any other non-AW rifle.

Good luck, and build within the law!

Army
11-21-2007, 11:10 PM
OLL is not a brand name, it stands for "Off List Lower". The "list" being the DOJ listing of NAMED firearms by maker and model.

If your lower receiver is NOT on the list by name, it is legal to own in California when it conforms to the "assault rifle" configurations set forth by ignorant boobs that want to control every aspect of your life.

532Fastback
11-21-2007, 11:11 PM
i am still lost, sorry

532Fastback
11-21-2007, 11:14 PM
Read carefully through this:
http://calguns.net/a_california_arak.htm

Here's the quick response though:
CA has an AW ban in place. People who had them before the ban had the opportunity to register them once the ban was put in place. That time has long since passed and there are no more registrations possible. Thus if you didn't register or have created a gun that that fit the definitions laid out in the laws, it is illegal. Registered ones can be sold out of state, but not in CA.

There are three ways an AW is defined as you'll have read in the link above. All the rifles you see here that are for sale fall OUTSIDE of the specification laid out by the ban. First and foremost, they are not on any of the lists of banned weapons. Secondly they either do not have any of the features listed in the ban(hereafter know as "Evil Features") or they do not accept a readily detachable magazine and are therefore allowed evil features.

Illegal activity on this forum is not permitted and threads about such activity are closed and/or removed. Note that there are a great many threads about off list rifles, all of which are legal under the letter of the law.

Yes, you can buy a complete off list rifle or you can build your own. There are tons of threads about building your own both here and at AR15.com.
No you don't need to, nor can you register a rifle as an AW anymore. Off list rifles are treated just like any other non-AW rifle.

Good luck, and build within the law!
thanks, i want to build a legal one. Just confused

M. Sage
11-21-2007, 11:16 PM
OLL means Off-List Lower, meaning an AR-like rifle that's not banned by name. Of course, there are SB-23 issues, but those are cake to avoid. Follow SB-23 (features ban) on an off-list rifle and you're golden.

They're no different than any other non-AW out there, legality-wise.

ANY gun owner in CA has a lot of research they need to do before doing anything... unfortunately.

Sam Hainn
11-21-2007, 11:18 PM
OLL is not a brand name, it stands for "Off List Lower".

LOL!! I never thought of that but I guess a newb might think that was a brand name. Clever! :D

532Fastback
11-21-2007, 11:23 PM
I thought OLL once put together made an assault weapon and then you couldn't sell it as a whole. I didn't mean it as a brand name.

Josh3239
11-21-2007, 11:23 PM
I strongly suggest you memorize and understand the gun laws 100% before going through with this.

1) Choose a lower receiver ONLY from the is list:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=34397&highlight=off-list+list

2) Decide if you would like a magazine lock and evil features or no evil features and detachable magazines.

Evil features are as follows; pistol grips, folding/retractable/collapsible stocks, vertical foregrips, flash hiders, or thumbhole stock.

If your magazine is detachable you cannot have any of these, you must purchase something other then a FH to fit over your muzzle, MonsterMan Grip to replace the pistol grip and a fixed stock. This way allows you to use pre-ban mags.

If you decide to go with a magazine lock, the most used and best option IMO is the bullet button. Allowing you to use a tool to release the magazine and you can have all the evil features you want. 10rd maximum magazine capacity, even if you have pre-ban mags.

Once again, learn the laws first. Unless your comfortable with building one and having a LEO ask you how its legal and you don't have an answer for him.

toolman9000
11-21-2007, 11:25 PM
I really don't think you should buy a off list AR type rifle if you cannot navigate this site to find out years of information on the off list lower movement.

I don't mean to discourage anyone, but the information is here at calguns, it has been repeated many times in every way you could word it.

If you want a no hassle semi-auto rifle in .223/5.56 that takes all of the confusion out of SB23 issues; buy a Bushmaster Carbon-15 with a sealed magwell, a KelTec SU16, or a Mini-14.

Also read every link and every page on the DOJ Firearms website.

Josh3239
11-21-2007, 11:25 PM
I thought OLL once put together made an assault weapon and then you couldn't sell it as a whole. I didn't mean it as a brand name.

OLL = Off List Lower. It is not on the ban list, the receiver is not an assault weapon. SB23 dictates by features what an assault weapon is, we comply with SB23 so there is no assault weapon.

Illegal assault weapons are created if they are build on a banned receiver and/or violate SB23.

Josh3239
11-21-2007, 11:27 PM
If you want a no hassle semi-auto rifle in .223/5.56 that takes all of the confusion out of SB23 issues; buy a Bushmaster Carbon-15 with a sealed magwell, a KelTec SU16, or a Mini-14.

+1, until you learn the laws and can memorize stick with a gun that is less hated by the politicians. If your heart is really set on an AR15, just grab a BushMaster Carbon 15 top loader.

toolman9000
11-21-2007, 11:28 PM
I thought OLL once put together made an assault weapon and then you couldn't sell it as a whole.

No, a off list rifle is just like any rifle or long gun sold in California... it's just a rifle - no more no less.

532Fastback
11-21-2007, 11:30 PM
Thanks for the info, maybe i'll stick with building cars ;)

PLINK
11-21-2007, 11:39 PM
Don't give up yet. You can buy a complete rifle CA compliant.

Contact Chris at Lanworld or the people at Cold War Shooters. They will work with you on your needs.

Before doing so, make sure you understand what makes a OLL rifle legal by reading the links above.

532Fastback
11-21-2007, 11:45 PM
Don't give up yet. You can buy a complete rifle CA compliant.

Contact Chris at Lanworld or the people at Cold War Shooters. They will work with you on your needs.

Before doing so, make sure you understand what makes a OLL rifle legal by reading the links above.
Sounds like too much of a pain in the *** to deal with. My brother mentioned i should just get a rifle like his M40A or whatever he also has in Afghanistan, so i'll look into that. Thanks though.

chunger
11-22-2007, 12:01 AM
Let's very good to properly caution a newcomer about the legalities of an off-list build, but don't discourage further research and the possibility of a new convert :)

Your configuration must comply 100% with SB 23 and, the lower receiver must not be named on the list of "assault weapons" specifically by make and model. That is all. Know SB 23 and you're golden as far as legal configurations.

Maybe a picture with some explanations is worth 1000 words.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y274/chungsteroonie/IMG_4939.jpg

These 2 lower receivers (Stag) are not on the list of specifically named assault weapons AND, they comply with SB 23. They have detachable magazines BUT do not have any banned features:

1. No flash suppressor is present. An AK Concepts DNTC compensator is used which is not designed to suppress flash, but is designed to re-direct gasses to reduce muzzle rise.

2. No pistol grip is present. No thumbhole stock is present. A legal U-15 stock manufactured by http://www.californiarifles.com is used.

3. No forward pistol grip is present

4. No collapsing or folding stock is present

This configuration is legal to build and use within California. By complying with SB 23 to the letter, no assault weapon has been manufactured. You are free to use any legally acquired standard capacity magazines with the 2 rifles depicted above.

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/1857/pa110022600x450rl6.jpg

This is a bullet button magazine lock. It makes removing the magazine impossible without inserting a tool into the center section. This rifle does not have a "readily detachable magazine" by definition because it "requires a tool" to remove.

Because the rifle does not have a detachable magazine, it can have any amount of the banned features listed in SB 23 present.

This rifle also complies to the letter with SB 23 and cannot be categorized as an assault rifle in this configuration. Only 10 round or less capacity magazines can be legally used with this rifle. If you insert a magazine with capacity greater than 10 rounds, you have manufactured an assault weapon.


These are illustrations of 2 common paths to building a 100% California legal rifle from a non-listed lower receiver. The reason it is so critical to know the assault weapon characteristics is you do not want to accidentally or through lack of knowledge assemble a rifle into an illegal configuration.

Sure, it's re-hashing information gone over a million times on this forum, but let's be friendly and help the new-comers out. I'm hoping there will be more.

Librarian
11-22-2007, 12:07 AM
Sounds like too much of a pain in the *** to deal with. My brother mentioned i should just get a rifle like his M40A or whatever he also has in Afghanistan, so i'll look into that. Thanks though.Nothing wrong with a Remington-700 based bolt-action rifle.

But don't give up on the AR-type just yet.

Your original post pretty much correctly stated how California 'assault weapons' are treated - can't sell it, can't inherit it in state, can't bring one into the state (with a few narrow exceptions - in and out for competitions, and with an AW permit for active duty military).

There are two ways a rifle becomes a CA-aw: named in the original law, or a follow-on lawsuit, or by having a set of features defined in a modification to the original law (SB 23).

The trick here is that the Off List Lowers - lowers NOT named in the original law and NOT named in the lawsuit - are assembled in a way that they are NOT CA-aw's by features, either. There are many ways to do that, but two of the more popular approaches are to use a non-pistol-grip stock, and a magazine which must be removed by using a tool. A couple of brands of each are commonly used.

It's true that the details are extremely important, but they are well understood (here, if not always elsewhere).

Bucc
11-22-2007, 12:48 AM
Interesting substitute.
An M40A instead of a semi auto.
One extreme to the other.
Depending on what you want to do with said rifle you may be jumping from one unnecessary extreme to another.
If you want something simply based on cool factor and have the bux to blow by all means grab an M40A.
Did I mention bux? Those things are expensive.
On top of that they sort of impractical as well as being a very specialized skill.(now the armchair commando sniper wing is gonna come out and flame me)
I shot Marksman on the KD and don't feel I have the skills to own one and be able to put it to proper use.
Of course that was 18 years a few gallons of whiskey, beer, coffee and a couple hundred pack of cigs ago.
But really, you don't just buy an $1800+ rifle then stick a $1000+ scope on it and shoot 6 inch 1000yd. groups with it.
They are just about worthless as a fighting rifle.....really no good for self defense. The suck for hunting unless you hunt from a stand or blind.
If you want something for a good general purpose get an M1A if you don't mind spending money or a Kali legal DSA FAL.
These are readily available at most gun stores and you need not memorize the penal code for them.
If your budget is tight and you want a shooter to plink around with that can double up as a decent SHTF or home defense tool....get an SKS for a couple hundred bucks.
Or you could invest in a good shotgun....but that's a whole nother can O worms.

tenpercentfirearms
11-22-2007, 6:26 AM
Don't listen to these guys. You can and you will figure this out and you will own an CA Compliant AR15. Here is the link we ought to start refering all of the newbies to. It is not as intimidating as Bill Wiese's FAQ.

http://www.tenpercentfirearms.com/index.php?main_page=page_8

If you still have more questions e-mail me at guns@tenpercentfirearms.com.

Seriously guys, you know this whole thing is confusing, why beat down a newbie like that? :confused:

AKman
11-22-2007, 8:07 AM
LOL!! I never thought of that but I guess a newb might think that was a brand name. Clever! :D

Actually its a good idea for a future lower series similar to the Calguns lowers with the SB23 serial number. How about a "DOJ OLL" or "BOF OLL" series lower? Of course, there's always room for a "Brady AR-15" lower or something along those lines.

Gshock
11-22-2007, 8:47 AM
I think we need to sticky this info at the top of the riflemans forum. Seeing that one of the main goals of this site is to inform Californians about legality of OLL's. Honestly, we have "How to paint your selector/trademark markings" sticky but not one on OLL :confused: especially since this question is asked about almost daily, and besides try searching OLL, then try to sort through 500 pages of posts with everybody and their mother chiming in about OLL's mixed in with about 200 off topic comments. Definitely not easy to sort out. Just a thought, HAPPY THANKSGIVING!

ivanimal
11-22-2007, 8:58 AM
http://www.calguns.net/

It is on our cover page.

Feel free to PM me or any other moderator. I am close to you and others are closer. We would love to show you how to own and keep a CA legal rifle. I tell people if it looks like a Mini 14 youre good to go. If it has a fixed 10 round magazine and no illegal features youre good to go.

Gshock
11-22-2007, 9:13 AM
I think a lot of newbs, especially younger ones don't have the patience to search or lurk for a while and try to learn it. Maybe we can sticky a link at the top of the rifleman's forum that takes them to the cover page.

Librarian
11-22-2007, 9:23 AM
Don't listen to these guys. You can and you will figure this out and you will own an CA Compliant AR15. Here is the link we ought to start refering all of the newbies to. It is not as intimidating as Bill Wiese's FAQ.

http://www.tenpercentfirearms.com/index.php?main_page=page_8

If you still have more questions e-mail me at guns@tenpercentfirearms.com.

Seriously guys, you know this whole thing is confusing, why beat down a newbie like that? :confused:I hadn't seen that before - that's pretty good!

I think it would flow a little better with <p> tags in front of the first three red sentences, the way those are displayed in the rest of the page, but the content and the pictures really help.

ROCKETW19
11-22-2007, 11:07 AM
Thanks for the info, maybe i'll stick with building cars ;)

bro its not that bad! I am a newbi to this whole thing also, the last gun i bought i just walked in paid and left. now im back into guns (20 yrs later) and the whole thing is upside down.

All you have to do is start reading post you will catch on to all the lingo very fast. and you will also start to understand all the stupid laws we have even faster. its realy very simple give it a couple of day you will see.

8200rpm
11-22-2007, 11:20 AM
http://www.tenpercentfirearms.com/index.php?main_page=page_8

If you still have more questions e-mail me at guns@tenpercentfirearms.com.

Seriously guys, you know this whole thing is confusing, why beat down a newbie like that? :confused:

That's a nice overview. Great for newbs and CA closet AR lovers who haven't seen the light in the last couple of years.

tenpercentfirearms
11-22-2007, 11:54 AM
I think it would flow a little better with <p> tags in front of the first three red sentences, the way those are displayed in the rest of the page, but the content and the pictures really help.

Could you explain what you mean a little better for me? I am not sure what the <p> tags will do and I tried it to see if I could figure it out on my own but didn't get it.

If anyone else has some recommendations, please make them. I want this thing to answer as many questions as possible and even updated it quite a bit this morning after posting it.

Thanks guys.

532Fastback
11-22-2007, 2:47 PM
I think a lot of newbs, especially younger ones don't have the patience to search or lurk for a while and try to learn it. Maybe we can sticky a link at the top of the rifleman's forum that takes them to the cover page.

I actually lurked on the website for 3 hours before making this post. I looked at the FAQ but i didn't go down far enough, i just saw what looked like the laws for an assault weapon and i already am a little familiar with them so i didn't think the answers to what i wanted to know were there. I am kind looking for experience that people have gotten and stuff like that.

5968
11-22-2007, 2:58 PM
I did do a search but i got a couple of questions that are nagging at me and i can't seem to find the answers. Sorry i am new.

I noticed on this site theres people selling their OLL AR15s, how is that possible? i thought Assault weapons were illegal to sell to anyone and when you die the gun can't be grandfathered? Am i just thinking of M16s?

Also i am interested in building my own OLL AR15. How do i go about doing it? How many parts does an AR15 have? and once its done, do i need to register it?


Sorry if the search would have answered my questions, everything i typed in wouldn't bring up any answers so i thought i'd ask.

Nobody here is sellling assault weapons. Search is your friend!:p

rkt88edmo
11-22-2007, 4:33 PM
I think you have access to all the resources you need.

Thread closed.