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WolfMansDad
11-21-2007, 6:13 PM
I got to shoot a bushmaster top-loading carbine (TLC) yesterday, and it was a lot of fun. Yes, yes, I know. A sealed mag well is a cop out. I prefer to think of it as supporting bushmaster's rather cautious contribution to our cause.

A big worry I have heard expressed is what you would do with this rifle in case of a failure. We did have a couple of failures to feed the first round - "ride overs," where the bolt does not strip the round from the magazine when you manually cycle the charging handle. The sealed mag well did not pose a problem clearing this kind of failure. After a while the rifle loosened up and gave us no more problems. (It was a new rifle, just out of the box.)

Later, we replaced the carbon-15 upper with a CMMG 16" with a mid-length gas system. Everything functioned fine, but I did notice that the rifle didn't balance nearly as well as it did with the carbon upper.

One thing I noticed while cleaning the carbon-15 upper was the improved extractor. The extractor spring has the little o-ring "donut" around it, which I had heard about but never seen.

Also, the bushmaster flash suppressor actually works! We shot some after sundown and saw no "orange pumpkin" at the muzzle, even with the 16" barrel.

The lack of a forward assist an dust cover was never an issue, but we were shooting under rather sterile conditions at a range.

bobfried
11-21-2007, 6:37 PM
KABOOOOMMMMMM

Bushmaster have been having a few lately, I wouldn't want to be anywhere near one for the next few years.

Josh3239
11-21-2007, 7:11 PM
Those are typically ammo problems and not Bushmaster's problems.

I have a Carbon 15, opened the magwell and installed a bullet button. It is a great gun and I don't see myself ever getting rid of it. Can't find a lighter AR and its never had any problems.

chiefcrash
11-21-2007, 7:32 PM
i actually had a Bushy TLC. I got it before i was introduced to CalGuns. It served me well, and has never given me cause for complaint.

But when the bullet button came out, I decided it was time for a change. I traded the TLC lower for an open mag well C-15 lower...

of course, the weight benefits of the plastic receivers have been offset by the Daniel Defense rail...

ocabj
11-21-2007, 8:06 PM
Those are typically ammo problems and not Bushmaster's problems.

Definitely.

Just because a couple Bushmaster ARs were involved in catastrophic failures doesn't mean they are problematic. It's the ammo, plain and simple.

I will make the bold prediction that we'll see more 'kaboom' incidents (as they have been popularly dubbed) in all firearms during the next few years simply due to the quality of ammunition being used.

Due to rising costs of ammunition, more people have resorted to using commercially produced reloads by smaller companies and the quality control of these companies is suspect.

There was an incident at my club's range earlier this year where a Kahr 9mm had a catastrophic failure while using commercial reloads purchased from Turner's Outdoorsman (unknown make). The woman firing the pistol had injuries to her hands due to the 'kaboom'.

Ak47owner
11-22-2007, 11:45 AM
how can you say it the ammo thats causing that rifle to blow up when its only bushmasters that are blowing up. When stag rifles arent blowing up left and right and LMT rifles arent blowing up left and right and Bushmasters ARE then theres your problem its not the ammo, its just that particular carbon modle

chiefcrash
11-22-2007, 12:05 PM
how can you say it the ammo thats causing that rifle to blow up when its only bushmasters that are blowing up. When stag rifles arent blowing up left and right and LMT rifles arent blowing up left and right and Bushmasters ARE then theres your problem its not the ammo, its just that particular carbon modle

well, i had a bushmaster blow up. it was caused by the ammo...

every once in a while, coincidences do happen. the fact that bushmaster is perhaps one of the most prolific AR-15 supplier in existence doesn't hurt...

Josh3239
11-22-2007, 12:15 PM
how can you say it the ammo thats causing that rifle to blow up when its only bushmasters that are blowing up.

Because when the source of the problem was found it was the ammo, most of the time it was because they were reloads that were done incorrectly.

Bushmasters ARE then theres your problem its not the ammo, its just that particular carbon modle

Not at all, that is a very narrow minded way to look at it. If you look for cases of AR15s blowing up you would find they aren't just Bushmasters nor are they just the carbon models. It is not like its this new phenomenom of AR15s blowing up when the carbon model came out. In fact, the Carbons were improved immensley by Bushmaster. I have heard of other firearms such as handguns and SU16s also having KaBooms. Does that mean it is suicide to buy a handgun or an SU16?

jandmtv
11-22-2007, 1:25 PM
i agree that its the bushy carbon model thats the problem. people are just too quick to blame the ammo in most cases that they dont look at the obvious problem, that guns should not be made out of anything but METAL!!!


EDIT: and b4 anyone starts to go off about glocks being made out of plastic, look at which part is plastic, the frame, not the slide!!! you have a metal bcg moving in a carbon upper, hmmm, it doesnt take a rocket scientist to guess what problems could arrise.

chiefcrash
11-22-2007, 4:13 PM
i agree that its the bushy carbon model thats the problem. people are just too quick to blame the ammo in most cases that they dont look at the obvious problem, that guns should not be made out of anything but METAL!!!


you know, when the AR-15 first came out, they were talking about how guns should not be made of anything but STEEL AND WOOD...


here's a silly question: how many Carbon-15s have actually blown up? 'cause i've only heard of one so far...

Ak47owner
11-22-2007, 4:14 PM
im not saying that all ar's have this problem. but what i am saying is that the carbon bushmaster rifle and only the carbon bushmaster rifle has this problem i have heard so many stories of this weapon blowing up from multipal people and they all blame it on their ammo and not the rifle. They even have other oll builds that are not carbon bushmaster's and use the very same ammo their carbon was using and they dont blow up.

anyways that is my thought and as always their is always gona be those people who dissagree so lets hear it..................

chiefcrash
11-22-2007, 4:33 PM
im not saying that all ar's have this problem. but what i am saying is that the carbon bushmaster rifle and only the carbon bushmaster rifle has this problem i have heard so many stories of this weapon blowing up from multipal people and they all blame it on their ammo and not the rifle. They even have other oll builds that are not carbon bushmaster's and use the very same ammo their carbon was using and they dont blow up.

anyways that is my thought and as always their is always gona be those people who dissagree so lets hear it..................

where are you hearing these stories? I'd kinda like to see them...

and there was a Carbon-15 that blew up on this board. Bushmaster found that the lugs weren't machined correctly (those would be metal parts). I'm just wondering why you guys think the carbon fiber is somehow causing these guns to blow up?

Josh3239
11-22-2007, 6:03 PM
Ya, I'd like to hear all these stories of Bushmaster Carbon 15s blowing up. I have only heard of two Carbons having kabooms. One was an ammo problem and the other wasn't build correctly. I have also heard of handguns, SU16s and Wasr's having Kabooms.

Sounds like people heard one story and decided that it is a terrible gun. I suppose the carbon material only makes it sound more likely to them. If they want to ignore the source or the fact that this has happend to other guns and instead blame it on the rifle based on one or two incidents then let them.

tankerman
11-22-2007, 6:50 PM
The Bushmaster uppers are not carbon fiber are they? The bolt, carrier and chamber are on the upper right?

Please explain how the lower could have anything to do with the gun blowing up?

chiefcrash
11-22-2007, 7:36 PM
The Bushmaster uppers are not carbon fiber are they? The bolt, carrier and chamber are on the upper right?

Please explain how the lower could have anything to do with the gun blowing up?

on a Carbon-15, the upper receiver is made of the same "carbon fiber" as the lower. the chamber, bolt, bolt carrier, etc are the same metal components found on the normal uppers...

how this will somehow automagically make a gun explode, i have no idea. I had a non-carbon Bushmaster upper explode. The fact that the receiver was made of metal didn't magically keep it from blowing up....

drawn
11-23-2007, 7:07 AM
A friend of mine and I have been shooting local reloads for about a year now. Me in my TLC carbon 15 and him in his pre '94 registered 20" Match barreled Colt. A few weeks ago he was shooting his Colt and it locked up tight. My friend dropped the magazine and tried to open the action with the charging handle to no avail. Having the kit and not the caboodle with us as far as tools go and not necessarily wanting to slam this specimen's stock on a rock we decided to deal with it at the shop. As we were cleaning up our brass we found a case without a spent primer in it. At the shop we split the upper from the lower and without much resistance pried the bolt back. We found the primer cup and anvil quite mangled in the lug area. We took the bolt apart and examined it and the chamber/lug area and found no apparent damage. I posted this for the record and believe this is why military primers are crimped.

ocabj
11-23-2007, 1:54 PM
...At the shop we split the upper from the lower and without much resistance pried the bolt back. We found the primer cup and anvil quite mangled in the lug area...

Humor me. What primers were you using?

drawn
11-25-2007, 6:20 AM
We didn't do the reloading so I don't know which primers. I will ask when I bring the primer parts and the incident to the reloading company's attention.

robitrocks
11-25-2007, 7:20 AM
you know, when the AR-15 first came out, they were talking about how guns should not be made of anything but STEEL AND WOOD...
here's a silly question: how many Carbon-15s have actually blown up? 'cause i've only heard of one so far...
I agree. Doesn't Cav Arms make a polymer based AR as well?

supersonic
11-25-2007, 8:44 AM
you know, when the AR-15 first came out, they were talking about how guns should not be made of anything but STEEL AND WOOD...


here's a silly question: how many Carbon-15s have actually blown up? 'cause i've only heard of one so far...

Yeah,me too. So, I guess that means GLOCKS/AR'S/HK'S/XD'S (THE LIST GOES ON &ON......&ON) SUCK or SHOULD NOT BE MADE LIKE THEY ARE?:rofl2: absolutely laughable!

Lon Moer
11-25-2007, 10:09 AM
you know, when the AR-15 first came out, they were talking about how guns should not be made of anything but STEEL AND WOOD....
Don't be bringing any facts or logic to this emotionally prejudiced topic, damn it!!
:willy_nilly:

WolfMansDad
11-26-2007, 7:45 AM
I loved the polymer receiver. Only the aluminum parts have been replaced with plastic, and they weren't pressure-bearing parts anyway. My only concern was the lack of a dust cover and forward assist, but neither are needed for a range toy anyway, which is all the TLC is.