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MudCamper
11-19-2007, 3:38 PM
Why do my AR barrels have what looks like sloppy weld slag on the muzzle, on the ones with brakes or flash hiders? Is this just lazy/sloppy manufacturing or does it serve some purpose?

And, can I grind/chip it off? I have a new Stag upper/barrel that part of it broke/blasted off by itself within the first 100 rounds.

ar15barrels
11-19-2007, 4:19 PM
Why do my AR barrels have what looks like sloppy weld slag on the muzzle, on the ones with brakes or flash hiders? Is this just lazy/sloppy manufacturing or does it serve some purpose?

And, can I grind/chip it off? I have a new Stag upper/barrel that part of it broke/blasted off by itself within the first 100 rounds.

That's either chrome lining or carbon buildup.
You can scrape off carbon buildup, but don't damage the crown.
Don't try to scrape off chrome lining.

http://www.ar15barrels.com/tech/crown.jpg

MudCamper
11-19-2007, 5:22 PM
Well it sounds like what I am refering to is the crown then. And part of it basically just fell off. I will take a pic later and post it.

MudCamper
11-19-2007, 5:55 PM
OK here's a pic of the muzzle:

http://www.paul.net/guns/StagMuzzle.jpg

This is a brand new Stag, shown with a thread protector on it. Notice that the upper left quarter of the "crowning" is missing. It was not that way when I first got it. I noticed this after I had fired 120 rounds through it.

This is the same upper that I have all kinds of other problems (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=75123) with.

ar15barrels
11-19-2007, 6:29 PM
This is a brand new Stag, shown with a thread protector on it.
Notice that the upper left quarter of the "crowning" is missing.
It was not that way when I first got it.
I noticed this after I had fired 120 rounds through it.

That "slag" is carbon buildup.
The area where it's missing is your actual muzzle.
Use a brass or aluminum scraper to knock the carbon off.

That upper did not always have that thread protector on it. ;)
You only get buildup like that when you have a muzzle device on it that captures the carbon.

That's a LOT of carbon for only 120 rounds.
I suspect there are either more rounds through it, or you are shooting some crappy ammo that makes a lot of carbon buildup.

apbrian112
11-19-2007, 6:39 PM
i was gonna say the same thing... that does look like a lot of carbon for only 120 rds...

MudCamper
11-19-2007, 8:16 PM
I bought the upper/barrel brand new with that "build-up" on it. WTF?

(And I put the thread protector on it.)

ar15barrels
11-19-2007, 9:44 PM
I bought the upper/barrel brand new with that "build-up" on it. WTF?

I hate to break it to you, but the barrel was certainly NOT new when you bought it if it had that buildup.
I would estimate that carbon buildup is from about 500 rounds fired and there was certainly a muzzle device on there when those rounds were fired.

Who did you buy it from?

AJAX22
11-19-2007, 9:55 PM
I buy alot of used AR parts, some better than others, And i've never picked up anything that had that much carbon on it.

Heck even my beater guns that I run wolf ammo through don't get carbon on them like that (and I have linear compensators on some of them)

I'd say if anything Randal's understating how used that looks.

Methinks you've been rooked.

ar15barrels
11-19-2007, 10:15 PM
I'd say if anything Randal's understating how used that looks.

I was going to say 500-1000 rounds at first, but I really don't know for sure so I estimate on the low end as to not hurt his feelings as much.
I have seen barrels with 5K rounds fired without ever removing the muzzle device and they had
over 1/16" of carbon built-up in there, filling ALL the space between the muzzle and the inside of the muzzle device.

I took a picture of that, but I don't know where it is right now.

MudCamper
11-19-2007, 10:31 PM
Yep. Carbon. I just spent the last hour with a brass brush and I still only got 80% of it off.

I bought this upper assembly with barrel new from Wes at Ten Percent. Now Wes is a great guy so all I can think is that Stag put a used barrel on a new upper. But based on how crappy the upper has performed (see my first and earlier posts) maybe the entire thing was a return that they resold. This was the second one Wes sent me, because the first one was a 3L with 3H tags on it in a 3H box.

At the very least, Stag better give me a new one. Better, I want to return it for a refund. My taste for Stag has been totally soured at this point.

jandmtv
11-19-2007, 10:37 PM
guys this is a bit off topic, but whats the best way of getting rust out of a non chrome lined barrel? (mosin nagant m91/30) i noticed a little rust in the rifling on my mosin and wana know what chemical i should use, would wd40 do the trick? i have some birchwood casey blue and rust remover, but im affraid it will harm the blueing too. any thoughts?

EDIT: how about using CLR (calcium lime rust remover) from home depot with a bore brush, will this work?

ar15barrels
11-19-2007, 10:38 PM
I bought this upper assembly with barrel new from Wes at Ten Percent.

Ouch.
I think I know the upper you bought. ;)

There was one that Wes mentioned running a bunch of rounds through it.
I made a funny comment not to buy a Stag from him for a couple days until he sold it.

jandmtv
11-19-2007, 11:04 PM
no one has advice on the rust cleaning?

ar15barrels
11-19-2007, 11:14 PM
no one has advice on the rust cleaning?

I recommend keeping your rust away from your firearms. ;)

tenpercentfirearms
11-20-2007, 6:17 AM
Ouch.
I think I know the upper you bought.

There was one that Wes mentioned running a bunch of rounds through it.
I made a funny comment not to buy a Stag from him for a couple days until he sold it.
It's all here in a thread somewhere.

You might have gotten THAT upper.

You should probably put a wink or a tongue in this post unless you are really insinuating I really do fire a bunch of rounds through uppers and then sell them to my customers. If you are insinuating that, you are dead wrong. I have four Stag floor model uppers and I shoot those as my own. They would obviously not get sent out to a customer.

supersonic
11-20-2007, 6:18 AM
Yep. Carbon. I just spent the last hour with a brass brush and I still only got 80% of it off.

I bought this upper assembly with barrel new from Wes at Ten Percent. Now Wes is a great guy so all I can think is that Stag put a used barrel on a new upper. But based on how crappy the upper has performed (see my first and earlier posts) maybe the entire thing was a return that they resold. This was the second one Wes sent me, because the first one was a 3L with 3H tags on it in a 3H box.

At the very least, Stag better give me a new one. Better, I want to return it for a refund. My taste for Stag has been totally soured at this point.

As far as uppers, you will be VERY HAPPY with a RockRiverArms "anymodel."

ar15barrels
11-20-2007, 9:20 AM
You should probably put a wink or a tongue in this post unless you are really insinuating I really do fire a bunch of rounds through uppers and then sell them to my customers.
They would obviously not get sent out to a customer.

I could not imagine you knowingly selling an upper with a bunch of rounds through it, but how did this guy get one from you with carbon built-up on the muzzle when new?

Perhaps Stag sold you one that was a factory return?

MudCamper
11-20-2007, 9:37 AM
I think Stag put a returned barrel on a new upper.

To be clear, the carbon buildup was on the muzzle before I fired a single shot. When I took the flash suppressor off I saw it and thought it was metal, thus my questions about weld slag.

Upon further investigation I can see that the picaninny rail on the gas block shows marks from something being clamped on it. It's clearly a used item.

tenpercentfirearms
11-20-2007, 12:23 PM
I could not imagine you knowingly selling an upper with a bunch of rounds through it, but how did this guy get one from you with carbon built-up on the muzzle when new?

Perhaps Stag sold you one that was a factory return?

I find it suspicious that you would take one of my previous posts where I was joking about shooting a customers gun or upper and make a serious claim that this must have been the upper. How is it any of your place to make such claims?

When I call you on it, you repeat the claim again like you are a detective and you are onto my shady business dealings.

As a competitor of mine, I am not sure if you should honestly be trying to play Internet detective and throwing such claims around when you would definetly benefit from this muck raking.

You might be an expert on barrels, you might not be. Lying to this guy in the first place about there being 500 rounds through it and then later on claiming it might be thousands is not consistent. I see once it was one of your competitors it was ok to "tell the truth" about what you think you see in the picture, but before that it was ok to just say a lower number "to save his feelings".

For those of you who might actually listen to this table rousing, I would never shoot an upper and then sell it as new. Never. My integrity is worth more than that.

I have notified Stag of this issue and am in direct communication with the OP customer to get this resolved.

I would appreciate it if any of you have any unfounded rumors about what might have happened reserve those statements for when you have proof instead of trying to drag our name through the mud. However, I also know this is business and not all gun dealers honor their integrity or class over the bottom line so if anyone does want to make these accusations, I am ready and able to defend my actions.

ar15barrels
11-20-2007, 12:35 PM
I would never shoot an upper and then sell it as new. Never.

I absolutely believe that.
I would not do it either.

It seems like Stag shipped you one that was fired a bunch though.
I'm sure that you will make it all good for your customer.
That's all that matters in the end.

I certainly don't mean you or your reputation any harm.
You might be reading into all this a little too much. ;)

apbrian112
11-20-2007, 12:48 PM
ahhh... there's the wink! :p i'm sure randall wasn't trying to insinuate any wrongdoing on your part... however mistakes do happen, whether on your end or stag's end and it looks like you're doing everything humanly possible to remedy the situation. so kudos to you! your reputation on this board is well deserved and i'm pretty sure no one would question it without due cause... so let's just hug it out! :grouphug:

tenpercentfirearms
11-20-2007, 12:53 PM
Sorry, I probably read too much into it.

Back to the topic, I will let you know what Stag says. They might have a reason for the build up, they might not.

I do know I continue to wonder if I want to keep having these issues with Stag. The first upper Mud got was a 3HL that was completely tagged as a 1H. I took care of that right away, but now this.

apbrian112
11-20-2007, 1:04 PM
that is kinda weird... when i built my 1st oll i used a stag upper (16" no sights, can't remember the model name) and didn't use it much, only 20 rnds down the pipe before i sold it. then i recently had randall build me a upper using a stag upper as a base (3-gun rifle) and i've shot about 200 trouble free rounds through the thing... hmmm... i was under the assumption that stag made pretty good stuff (equal to RRA, CMMG, etc) and bought their stuff after a ton of research on arfcom... only started hearing about the problems after i had purchased my uppers.

ar15barrels
11-20-2007, 1:11 PM
Sorry, I probably read too much into it.

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