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View Full Version : Grenade Launching Spigot ID


Michael303
11-18-2007, 6:20 PM
A while back, I bought a mystery box of assorted Enfield parts from an online dealer. Amongst the parts was a spigot type grenade launcher that I can't identify. On the surface, it looks a bit like a regular standard spigot launcher for a No4 Enfield. Trouble is that the launcher is not quite the right diameter for a No4 rifle, the sight measures distance in meters rather than yards, and has a different type of clasp.

Any ideas which rifle this belongs to? Any help is appreciated!
http://www.members.cox.net/bigcheze45/Webpics/spigot3.jpg

http://www.members.cox.net/bigcheze45/Webpics/spigot4.jpg

moulton
11-18-2007, 6:25 PM
I hope that is located outside CA because I think that is a fellony if it is in CA:sleeping:

bobfried
11-18-2007, 6:29 PM
I hope that is located outside CA because I think that is a fellony if it is in CA:sleeping:

Felony for owning a piece of metal?

Not in this state, at least not yet. Now if it was functioning and attatched to a semi-auto than it would be, assuming it wasn't an AW to begin with.

Looks like the kind that would work in an L1-A1 FH.

Pryde
11-18-2007, 6:30 PM
That looks like an early grenade launching device for a FN-FAL.

BaronW
11-18-2007, 6:31 PM
As long as that isn't mounted to a gun it's fine.

JHC
11-18-2007, 6:34 PM
Grenade launcher in CA = Destructive Device = Felony

This sort of item is why the brakes on Yugo 59/66s in CA have sleeves welded over them

Blue
11-18-2007, 6:35 PM
Grenade launcher in CA = Destructive Device = Felony

This sort of item is why the brakes on Yugo 59/66s in CA have sleeves welded over them

I think that's only cause its mounted on the gun. Bwiese will chime in soon I'm sure and straighten us all out. :D

4 Brigada
11-18-2007, 6:37 PM
That is an early grenade launching device for a FN-FAL.


Could be, any markings on it, other than the range marks in meters. Early Fal grenade launchers had a little different range ladder.

bobfried
11-18-2007, 6:37 PM
Grenade launcher in CA = Destructive Device = Felony

This sort of item is why the brakes on Yugo 59/66s in CA have sleeves welded over them

Yah know if the OP gives you that thing and you are able to launch a grenade with it by itself I would pay to see it.

What he shows is a piece of metal, nothing more.

Michael303
11-18-2007, 7:22 PM
Thanks for the input.

I’m not sure that it would fit an L1A1. My logic is that those rifles were built around inch specifications, rather than metric as seen on the FNFAL. If they carried that idea forward, why would they measure distance in meters? Also, it doesn’t look like it could fit around a FN flash hider.

On to the legal issues. As I read California firearms law, having the spigot is legal in the same fashion as having a flash hider is legal. What would be illegal would be to mount that same spigot to a rifle. That would make it a launcher and thus illegal. It’s not like a M203; it can’t launch grenades on its own.

Blue
11-18-2007, 7:40 PM
Thanks for the input.

Iím not sure that it would fit an L1A1. My logic is that those rifles were built around inch specifications, rather than metric as seen on the FNFAL. If they carried that idea forward, why would they measure distance in meters? Also, it doesnít look like it could fit around a FN flash hider.

On to the legal issues. As I read California firearms law, having the spigot is legal in the same fashion as having a flash hider is legal. What would be illegal would be to mount that same spigot to a rifle. That would make it a launcher and thus illegal. Itís not like a M203; it canít launch grenades on its own.

They have inch pattern FAL's.

4 Brigada
11-18-2007, 7:50 PM
If that is a FAL GL spigot, it would fit a FAL like this one

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t155/4brigada/earlybelgiankit.jpg

This picture is of a very early fal

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t155/4brigada/BGS_Gewehr_1_Energa2.jpg

there are variations as the different countries that used the fal modified slightly some parts for ease of manufacture. The FN 49 GL is very similar as is the MAS 56, standard NATO rifle grenade uses a 22 mm diameter grenade launcher

Addax
11-18-2007, 7:52 PM
Maybe FN49 or Metric Fal (Belgium, Austrian, German, Imbel)

Michael303
11-18-2007, 7:55 PM
Could be, any markings on it, other than the range marks in meters. Early Fal grenade launchers had a little different range ladder.

The ladder measures distance in Meters and is marked for 25, 50, 75, and 100.

On the base, there are two markings as seen below.
http://www.members.cox.net/bigcheze45/Webpics/spigot1.jpg

NeoWeird
11-18-2007, 8:58 PM
Not sure. When I first sw a picture I thought it looked like one for an Enfield, but I don't have a great deal of experience with them so I will defer to others who say it isn't. Could it possibly be a late Enfield type, maybe even slightly modified to work with the No5 carbines and they abnormal flash suppressors?

Also, just because the L1A1 was machined with the inch standard doesn't mean they would have to have the aiming devices in standard measurements as well. It would actually make more sense to have the ranging/aiming devies in metric measurements since all their soldiers would already be comfortable with it. Kind of like how some of our weapons are made with the inch standard but have meters for ranging since so many NATO nations use meters instead of yards.

bigthaiboy
11-18-2007, 11:31 PM
Also, just because the L1A1 was machined with the inch standard doesn't mean they would have to have the aiming devices in standard measurements as well. It would actually make more sense to have the ranging/aiming devies in metric measurements since all their soldiers would already be comfortable with it. Kind of like how some of our weapons are made with the inch standard but have meters for ranging since so many NATO nations use meters instead of yards.

If it was for an inch-spec British L1A1, the British Army would have been using meter measurements for ranging as standardised in compliance to NATO membership in 1948. As was things like orienteering, the british changed map and compass measurements from inches and degrees to milimeters and mils. So sights on the L1A1 would have been calibrated in meters, as with the rest of NATO.

4 Brigada
11-18-2007, 11:47 PM
So sights on the L1A1 would have been calibrated in meters, as with the rest of NATO.


bigthaiboy is right on L1A1/inch pattern FAL sights are calibrated in meters.

NeoWeird
11-19-2007, 1:18 AM
If it was for an inch-spec British L1A1, the British Army would have been using meter measurements for ranging as standardised in compliance to NATO membership in 1948. As was things like orienteering, the british changed map and compass measurements from inches and degrees to milimeters and mils. So sights on the L1A1 would have been calibrated in meters, as with the rest of NATO.

Right. The OP said he didn't think it would be for a British FAL (L1A1) since they were Inch pattern and the sight was in metric meters. I was simply pointing out that just because the dimensions of the rifles were made in the inch standard doesn't mean the ranging/aiming device on the rifle had to be measured in standard measurement as well, but in fact would most likely be in meteric meters to avoid confussion with the troups who were raised on meteric measurements.

bigthaiboy
11-19-2007, 2:16 AM
Right. The OP said he didn't think it would be for a British FAL (L1A1) since they were Inch pattern and the sight was in metric meters. I was simply pointing out that just because the dimensions of the rifles were made in the inch standard doesn't mean the ranging/aiming device on the rifle had to be measured in standard measurement as well, but in fact would most likely be in meteric meters to avoid confussion with the troups who were raised on meteric measurements.

That's correct, I was supporting what you said. To be honest, when the British Army changed over to metric measurements to be in line with the rest of their European partners, some time in the 50's, the greatest confusion was probably to British troops, as they would have been raised on inches, feet, yards and miles.

-hanko
11-19-2007, 6:58 AM
Iím not sure that it would fit an L1A1. My logic is that those rifles were built around inch specifications, rather than metric as seen on the FNFAL. If they carried that idea forward, why would they measure distance in meters? Also, it doesnít look like it could fit around a FN flash hider.

On to the legal issues. As I read California firearms law, having the spigot is legal in the same fashion as having a flash hider is legal. What would be illegal would be to mount that same spigot to a rifle. That would make it a launcher and thus illegal. Itís not like a M203; it canít launch grenades on its own.
Inch fal's were made to the same dimensions as metric guns, the Brits simply converted FN's metric dimensiions to their English equivalents.

As to the legal issues, "I think it's a felony..." doesn't help much.

I think an attorney's opinion might be refreshing;)

-hanko

Michael303
11-19-2007, 8:05 AM
Hmm. It seems the consensus is that the item above is a spigot type launcher for an early model L1A1. I have to admit I’m not really interested in keeping it, more curious as to what was in the mystery box. Off to Gunbroker with it. Thanks everybody!

maxicon
11-19-2007, 9:12 AM
Looks pretty clear to me, legally. Any grenade launcher is a "destructive device". It doesn't say it has to be functional or attached to a gun. If you have a piece of metal called a grenade launcher, it's a destructive device, per the info below.

A named receiver doesn't have to be capable of firing a round to be an assault weapon...


http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/dwc.pdf

CHAPTER 2.5. DESTRUCTIVE DEVICES
12301. (a) The term "destructive device," as used in this chapter, shall include any of the following weapons:
...
(2) Any bomb, grenade, explosive missile, or similar device or any launching device therefor.

On to the legal issues. As I read California firearms law, having the spigot is legal in the same fashion as having a flash hider is legal. What would be illegal would be to mount that same spigot to a rifle. That would make it a launcher and thus illegal. It’s not like a M203; it can’t launch grenades on its own.

The difference here is a flash hider isn't called out as being illegal. A non-registered removable-mag semi-auto with a flash hider installed is illegal, not the flash hider itself. For the grenade launcher, it's the launcher itself that's illegal. Likewise, mounting a grenade launcher to a removable-mag semi-auto would make that rifle an assault weapon, but it wouldn't affect the destructive device status of the launcher itself, which is defined separately.

4 Brigada
11-19-2007, 9:24 AM
Any grenade launcher is a "destructive device".

I guess it depends on what you read into it, a grenade launcher is a destructive device yes. Is the the trigger group of that grenade launcher a destructive device? I interpret the whole grenade launcher is the destructive device. This is not a grenade launcher, this is an adaptor that converts a rifle to a grenade launcher. By itself it is incapable of launching a grenade, based on this concept "that it could" then my right arm can be considered a grenade launcher.

NeoWeird
11-19-2007, 4:32 PM
I was under the impression that the item had to be capable to fire a grenade which is why those used ARM tubes, even though they had launched a grenade before but were inable to do so now, were legal to own as display pieces. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's just how I thought it worked. Same reason why you can get demilled RPGs from, of all places that know little to no law, Sportsmansguide.