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wuluf
11-18-2007, 4:12 PM
Is there ANYTHING we can do to begin the discussion to change CCW policy? Petitions, organizations, any thoughts?

Gator Monroe
11-18-2007, 4:18 PM
City of Los Angeles (No Chance) Culver City or other places (Looks brighter) lol ... City of Los Angeles has givin out less than 100 CCW permits over the last 35 years (And Probably less than 50 is the actuial number possibly as low as 20) Shasta County/Redding Ca. has givin out over 50 + CCW Permits a year for the last 35 years...:eek:

G17GUY
11-18-2007, 4:21 PM
For the time being you can open carry while working on shall issue.

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum12/

Ford8N
11-18-2007, 4:58 PM
And the pisser is Shasta county CCW's can walk around LA with a gun and LA residents can't, unless they have the ultra rare CCW. Think about it.

RAD-CDPII
11-18-2007, 5:22 PM
Good luck in your effort, but I don't believe that ere is any hope. Here is a thread I started a while back that didn't go far: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=71604

FreedomIsNotFree
11-18-2007, 5:35 PM
I have a fundamental problem asking permission from the Government to defend myself and my family. Playing nice within the existing system of CCW issuance here in CA perpetuates the problem. Now if it was shall issue...that would be another story.

metalhead357
11-18-2007, 5:58 PM
And the pisser is Shasta county CCW's can walk around LA with a gun and LA residents can't, unless they have the ultra rare CCW. Think about it.

I know its small relief...but ya' should feel SAFER when them from Shasta and up north frequent yer' southern lands;)

I know...small gesture if anything.:(

We need PRO candidates in state...not just OK'rs...we need PRO 2nd Amenders in SAC

The SoCal Gunner
11-18-2007, 6:13 PM
We always have new laws that take away more rights. Will we ever see restrictive laws rescinded or new laws granting us more rights?

CCWFacts
11-18-2007, 7:59 PM
We're not going to achieve success the way it has happened in the other states, which is repeated efforts to get it through the leg and override the inevitable governor's veto (governors have a thing about vetoing CCW, even in Texas).

We also might never get to shall-issue, but we might get to some point like what they have in Alabama or Connecticut which are "may issue in theory, shall issue in practice". That would be good enough for me.

We'll get closer to it by raising awareness, to get more people to apply, by lawsuits, and by making it a political issue in sheriffs' campaigns when we can. It will be a process of grinding our way to victory. The only "quick" path to victory would be some kind of disruptive legal case, like some Heller derivative maybe. If the Right to Keep and Bear Arms happens to protect the right to bear (carry) arms, then we might in a position where the state's options are to accept open carry, or to start issuing permits.

eckerph
11-18-2007, 8:10 PM
For the time being you can open carry while working on shall issue.

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum12/


I found this on a board i look through every now and then
http://www.pacovilla.com/v-web/bulletin/bb/viewtopic.php?t=16302

Most of the responses are pretty sad.

FreedomIsNotFree
11-18-2007, 9:26 PM
I found this on a board i look through every now and then
http://www.pacovilla.com/v-web/bulletin/bb/viewtopic.php?t=16302

Most of the responses are pretty sad.


What else would you expect from folks that dont understand the penal code? They obviously feel they have one up on us regular citizens.

There was one post there that made sense...something to the effect of, "lets not try to be experts on stuff that is not in our realm".....I'd have to agree.

PonchoTA
11-18-2007, 11:39 PM
Is there ANYTHING we can do to begin the discussion to change CCW policy? Petitions, organizations, any thoughts?
You know, I think that is a good point. I've been pondering this lately too, and like FreedomIsNotFree, I too have a problem with "asking permission to protect myself" as well.

Maybe we should go on the offense and push for the rights we deserve (instead of being on the defense and trying to protect what little we have left). :mad:

I think that the argument could be made where the onus would be on the state to justify why we SHOULDN'T be allowed to carry, and to reclassify the state policies as a "shall issue" state.

Of course, I'm no lawyer, and I'm sure those more in the know can come up with a hundred reasons why Cali CAN'T become 'shall issue', but I think it would be in our best interests to come up with more reasons why we SHOULD.

I wish I knew the 'how', not just the 'why'.
:(

eckerph
11-19-2007, 12:20 AM
What else would you expect from folks that dont understand the penal code? They obviously feel they have one up on us regular citizens.

There was one post there that made sense...something to the effect of, "lets not try to be experts on stuff that is not in our realm".....I'd have to agree.

I should mention that I found that thread in the Academy and rookie sub forum and from i can gather the majority of posters aren't even CO's. Most of the guys over their are pro 2nd. they even have a thread that discusses OLL and calguns!

kap
11-19-2007, 1:12 AM
Seems like they were discussing calguns, californiarifles, and MMgrips in a positive way as a source of good information about OLLs.

http://www.pacovilla.com/v-web/bulletin/bb/viewtopic.php?t=16094&highlight=oll

yellowfin
11-19-2007, 11:20 AM
How often is there such a thing as a pro CCW sheriff candidate running? Can one be induced or created? It seems like a sheriff who is in favor of issuing combined with an orchestrated effort to get more people to apply would be what would work. Are there ever coordinated efforts to get more people to apply? It seems like little is known about who applies and how often. If say 100+ people are known to apply and 5 or less get it within a similar time frame then that should be proof as to what's going on. What efforts towards organization of such exist?

CCWFacts
11-19-2007, 11:53 AM
California Sheriffs elections are extremely non-competitive. Sheriff Hennessey, for example, is the most anti-CCW sheriff in the state, and he has been in office for a couple of decades, and there's never any serious candidate running against (twice his name was the only name on the ballot). When he retires after 30 or 40 years of denying San Franciscans their right to personal safety and self-defense, he'll appoint a successor who will run without serious opposition.

His is the most extreme example of course, but the point is, there is not much competition in these races, and incumbents win. This is unfortunate reality.

As for getting more people involved: most gun owners in this state have no idea that shall-issue exists, and is perfectly normal, in most of the US. Many gun owners think that issuing permits to all qualified applicants is a bad idea. I can understand this. I know people who have clean records but shouldn't be able to own, much less carry, any type of weapon. So it's an understandable concern. But somehow shall-issue has been done in about 40 other states and that concern has been proven unfounded, and it would be an unfounded concern here, too, because there's nothing that would make this state unique in that regard.

yellowfin
11-19-2007, 12:27 PM
That's it? They simply don't know? Well, given that, is there any effort to inform them of it?!?!?

Glock22Fan
11-19-2007, 12:43 PM
That's it? They simply don't know? Well, given that, is there any effort to inform them of it?!?!?

Sites like CalGuns and www.CaliforniaConcealedCarry.com are working on this. Also, we need word of mouth from people like YOU! The best ambassadors are people like you, talking with your friends, neighbors, colleagues and relatives.

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead

CCWFacts
11-19-2007, 2:40 PM
That's it? They simply don't know? Well, given that, is there any effort to inform them of it?!?!?

I believe that is the major factor. We're facing a restriction on our rights, and so our natural instinct is to look at the usual suspects: gun-banning nuts in Sacramento. But that has left us not seeing the real problem: the majority of gun owners in this state who are unaware of CCW, or who are not sure that it's a good idea. And of those who are aware of CCW, and who do think it is a good idea, the majority don't know how important sheriff and city council elections are, don't get involved, and don't even vote.

Take LA for example. (Please take it!) There must be a million gun owners in this county. That's enough of a block to absolutely determine the outcome of any sheriff's race here. But what happens is they don't know, aren't supportive, don't care, or aren't on the ball, and so Sheriff Baca keeps winning, without even needing to run a campaign.

I would like to see two things happen:

1. Out-reach to non-traditional gun owners, to let them know how important they are to the movement, how much we value them, etc.

2. And in-reach to the millions of gun owners in this state who don't care, who don't like the NRA, who are liberal, etc.

If we could do those two things with more success, we could make a pro-CCW stance into an essential requirement for winning a sheriff's race. That is what has happened in legislatures all across the country on gun issues. Politicians who trample on gun rights get trampled by all the single issue voters so they stay away from the issue. That's what should happen here. Sheriffs should know that they need to issue permits or get kicked to the curb.

We're a long way from that.

Reaching out to FFLs would be a place to start, but they are mostly apathetic or even hostile to gun rights advocacy in my experience in this state.

Gator Monroe
11-19-2007, 6:20 PM
This proves that the higher up the payscale you go as an LEO the more likely you are (From Brain warsh-ing or for political expediancy) to become Anti-2A (Even if you were not early on in your life or career) ...:rolleyes::sleeping:

MedSpec65
11-19-2007, 7:06 PM
:shrug:I'm surrounded with the kind of reality-challenged elitists you are describing here Lucius and it pains me A LOT. I was raised in California and have watched the population become supplanted with invaders from eastern institutions of lower living with advanced degrees in public administration. They literally took the state over, jurisdiction by jurisdiction, since the mid-sixties. Most of the forum members over forty understand exactly what I'm talking about and frankly don't need to be flamed by a frustrated junior member who is willing to point out the obvious, but offers nothing but pessimism and vitriol. If you are a proud, responsible gun-owning Californian, we're ON YOUR SIDE. If you think we're all a bunch of chumps, get off our porch.

Gator Monroe
11-19-2007, 7:18 PM
:shrug:I'm surrounded with the kind of reality-challenged elitists you are describing here Lucius and it pains me A LOT. I was raised in California and have watched the population become supplanted with invaders from eastern institutions of lower living with advanced degrees in public administration. They literally took the state over, jurisdiction by jurisdiction, since the mid-sixties. Most of the forum members over forty understand exactly what I'm talking about and frankly don't need to be flamed by a frustrated junior member who is willing to point out the obvious, but offers nothing but pessimism and vitriol. If you are a proud, responsible gun-owning Californian, we're ON YOUR SIDE. If you think we're all a bunch of chumps, get off our porch.

Hello ? What about my post about Dem/Lib ousting of our GOP wEAPONS CHAMPIONS !

MedSpec65
11-19-2007, 7:27 PM
Hello ? What about my post about Dem/Lib ousting of our GOP wEAPONS CHAMPIONS !
You got your history exactly right Gator. I remember the B1 Bob Dornan episode like it happened yesterday. I should have quoted our new Junior Member, Lucius, when I posted my reply. It certainly wasn't directed to you, but now that I've reviewed another post from our unhappy new member, I wish I hadn't even bothered. Next time I'm up around Shasta I'll look you up. You are one of "The Good Guys", in my book.

Paladin
11-19-2007, 7:27 PM
Is there ANYTHING we can do to begin the discussion to change CCW policy? Petitions, organizations, any thoughts?I've addressed this before:http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=801285#post801285

What can we do?

(1) Register to vote (https://ovr.ss.ca.gov/votereg/OnlineVoterReg), and, come hell or high water, vote in EVERY election, whether it is "just a primary" or a general election. Encourage your pro-RKBA family members and friends to do the same. Pass the link of this webpage on to them.

(2) Join the NRA or upgrade your membership to Life, Endowment, Patron or Benefactor levels (http://membership.nrahq.org/). Major donors who can contribute significant amounts to the fight, go to: http://ringoffreedom.com/index.html

(3) Take newbies shooting. Make the first time as easy as possible by providing ear and eye protection and the guns (and cleaning them yourself afterwards). If you want to be generous, pay for the range fees and the ammo too. Be sure to give the new shooters a safety lesson before going to the range.

(4) Give NRA memberships and Junior memberships as Christmas/birthday/graduation/other gifts (http://membership.nrahq.org/). Be sure to mention the free subscription to either America's 1st Freedom, American Rifleman or American Hunter (or InSights for Juniors) magazine and all the free benefits (http://www.nra.org/benefits.aspx and http://www.nra.org/affiliates.aspx).

"Federal and many state election laws dictate that funds used to assist candidates for office must be raised separately, and that is the task of NRA’s political action committee—the NRA Political Victory Fund (NRA-PVF). Neither NRA member dues nor contributions to ILA can be used directly for the election or defeat of candidates.

Because of these clearly defined parameters, and because only a small fraction of ILA’s operating budget comes from regular NRA membership dues, both ILA and NRA-PVF must continuously raise the funds needed to sustain NRA’s legislative and political activities. The resources expended in these arenas come from the generous contributions of NRA members—above and beyond their regular dues" (http://www.nraila.org/About/PoliticalVictoryFund/). Therefore,

(5) support the NRA's Institute for Legislative Action, the NRA's lobbying arm (http://www.nraila.org/About/). Sign up for their free Grassroots Alert emails at: https://secure.nraila.org/EmailSignup.aspx, and to donate, go to: https://secure.nraila.org/Contribute.aspx); and

(6) support the NRA's Political Victory Fund, the NRA's political campaigning arm (http://www.nrapvf.org/ and, if you are a NRA member, log in at the "NRA Members" page to be taken to a secure page for donating specifically to the PVF).

(7) Support the NRA Civil Rights Defense Fund, which fights for your 2nd A RKBA in state and federal courts (https://www.nradefensefund.org/index.aspx). "You can support the Fund’s work through direct donations, estate planning, and support through the CFC or United Way payroll deductions. Our Combined Federal Campaign number is 10006" (https://www.nradefensefund.org/message.aspx and https://www.nradefensefund.org/contributionsnew.aspx).

(8) Work with your local NRA Election Volunteer Coordinator (http://www.nraila.org/About/ElectionActivity/).

(9) Sign up for "CAL-ERTs" from CalNRA to know what CA state bills to support or oppose and when (http://www.calnra.com/).

(10) Join your local CalNRA Members' Council (or start one) (http://calnra.com/mc/directory/).

(11) Support the CalGuns Foundation so they can use the courts to defend our 2nd A RKBA in California (http://calgunsfoundation.org/main/).

(12) Give out pro-RKBA "business card fliers" to people whom you talk to about guns/RKBA/CLs, esp at gun shops, shooting ranges, shooting clubs (IDPA, IPSC-USPSA, PPC), and to people looking at gun magazines at newsstands (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=5295940&posted=1#post5295940). Stick them under the wipers of parked vehicles w/NRA, LE, military, American flag, martial arts, Ducks Unlimited, etc, decals.

(13) Put up RKBA/CL fliers, keep some in your car w/tape/stapler and post them at different places you go (esp those mentioned in regard to the business cards) (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=72830).

(14) Every 2 yrs new voters get to vote for the first time -- figure out how to influence the youth for our cause (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=72594). BB guns, pellet guns, AirSoft and paintball can be good half-way steps for minors, esp for those who, for one reason or another, can't use firearms. See also numbers 1, 3, and 4 above. The youth are our future!

(15) And last, stop funding our enemies by boycotting the various organizations, celebrities, and companies that the NRA has identified as supporting the fight against us (http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?ID=15).

See also: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=60176
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=70487
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=55793

Gator Monroe
11-19-2007, 7:33 PM
You got your history exactly right Gator. I remember the B1 Bob Dornan episode like it happened yesterday. I should have quoted our new Junior Member, Lucius, when I posted my reply. It certainly wasn't directed to you, but now that I've reviewed another post from our unhappy new member, I wish I hadn't even bothered. Next time I'm up around Shasta I'll look you up. You are one of "The Good Guys", in my book.

That's one of the nicest replies to a Post of mine ever ! (Remember this when I post some twaddle in the future and you want to jump outta my screen and strangle (Throttle) me ... LOL...:eek:

eckerph
11-19-2007, 7:40 PM
Wow. lots of good info from Paladin. I'm most definitely going to run off some cards/flyers.

Paladin
11-19-2007, 8:16 PM
Wow. lots of good info from Paladin. I'm most definitely going to run off some cards/flyers.You're welcome.

Edit: I went back and edited that post to add the link to my Pro-CCW flier thread at:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=72830

eckerph
11-19-2007, 9:01 PM
You're welcome.

Edit: I went back and edited that post to add the link to my Pro-CCW flier thread at:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=72830

I appreciate you're efforts, makes me want to be more active in the fight for the 2nd amendment.

Kestryll
11-19-2007, 10:04 PM
Thread clean up completed, we now return you to your discussion, already in progress.